The Linux Appreciation Thead

[james.m.flood]

I wanna hear some stories of people converting to linux from any other OS..

My story:

I was a naive winblows user dealing with the daily crashes until about 2.5 years ago when a (very very dear) friend of mine introduced me to Gentoo Linux...
Luckily i had a few weeks on my hands to learn a whole new OS from scratch. Once i got it installed i had a winblows partition and a linux partition... i kept the winblows partition for about 2 months just incase something were to happen or whatever.. and then i realized that i hadn't used it once since the Gentoo install.
Running the exact same hardware in linux, and the exact same q3config file, and the latest nvidia drivers for both linux and winblows.. and in windows i got 130fps in Quake3, and in Linux i got 500fps...
to get 500fps in winblows i woulda had to dish out about 470$ in hardware upgrades at the time.
Oh, and the ONLY time i ever reboot my computer is to upgrade my kernel..

 

[sparkjim]

As a Linux gamer, it has been in my experience that, while nvidia does provide up-to-date driver support for Linux, the framerates are comparable to that of Windows. In certain situations, one operating system out performs the other but only by +/-10 FPS. In the end, the framerates are very similiar. I have never heard of such a drastic 470~ FPS increase before.

 

[james.m.flood]

even on my current hardware.. 2.5 years later.. i tried it again.. and there are similar frame increases...
and i also checked out what kinda frames other people using windows are getting with the same/similar hardware as mine.. and its pretty much the same...
now in windows i get 190fps and i get 560 in linux..

and by the way... i said it would cost 470$ to get a similar frame right in windows.. NOT 470 fps increase...
allthough your argument doesnt change cuz my fps increase is still way out there

 

[Mauli]

i would like to convert, but i dont have time right now to lean it, and i still dont know how to install slack on my SATA computer... gosh i whish i could tell you a story...

 

[swatbat]

I pretty much run a mixed enviroment. My main pc runs xp pro for gaming(linux has some games on it but not as much as the xp) and for some windows apps I haven't bothered finding a linux replacement for/didn't mess with getting it to work with wine. My main laptop runs windows too for school. It use to dual boot into suse and then redhat 9 but I ended up running windows on it all the time so I took them off. I then was running redhat in a virtual pc window for a bunch of unix apps but that is a major preformace hit(notebook is a pm 1.6) The stuff I kept using I loaded on to the apple. I end up using my apple notebook a lot though and run gentoo on a xbox as a small home server and have a other *nix boxes around the house(freebsd server, redhat workstation, an old spac sitting somewhere). I guess my story started years ago when I got into the dec alphas running unix(those things use to be so f'ing sweet) and with some spac stuff back in the day. I also got to play with some sgi stuff(got a friend who is big into it) Right now I'm waiting for those nano-itx boards to come out because I'm thinking one would be a sweet little fileserver running prob freebsd(maybe a linux who knows) with like 2 100gig notebook drivers(very small and low noise)

 

[cjcox]

Myself: Linux desktop user since 1994 (NO WINDOWS).
(the only reason I got an x86 platforms... cuz the x86 architecture took us BACK about 10 years technology wise... was because of Linux)

Spouse: Linux desktop user since 2003 (NO WINDOWS).

Daughter: Windows XP (but may be moving this year)

At primary workplace (where I lead up *ix administration): 30+ DESKTOP Linux users and growing (we have out done our Windows counterparts on new deployments 2 quarters in a row).

At secondary contract (manufacturing company): Deployed about 10 Linux servers doing everything from file/print sharing, to DDNS/DHCP, mail, backups, intranet website... for 2 sites. Nothing on the desk yet... but company is totally sold on Linux as an infrastructure platform.

A NTLUG.org: We have installed Linux on literally hundreds of people's computer systems for free.

 

[Stellar]

i got 130fps in Quake3, and in Linux i got 500fps

You do realize that regardless of your operating system, your monitor is not capable of displaying any more than 130fps or possibly less depending on your refresh rate?

I also feel it should be pointed out that switching your entire operating system is a somewhat drastic measure to get increased framerates in any game, much less such an antiquated game as Q3, which is now easily handled by 2nd and 3rd generation discontinued video hardware.

 

[[H]EMI_426]

I switched from Linux to FreeBSD for all of my *nixy home needs in 1999 or so, for what it's worth...After using Linux for five or so years I just got tired of a lot of the crap that comes along with running Linux.

I appreciate my time in Linux for teaching me *nix basics. That's about all I appreciate about it.

 

[rhy7s]

the exact same q3config file, and the latest nvidia drivers for both linux and winblows.. and in windows i got 130fps in Quake3, and in Linux i got 500fps...

Can you post the settings you used or your *.cfg? I'm not near an FX5200 right now but I should be able to track one down. I'm finding it hard to believe such a discrepancy could exist between these OSes at this moment in time but I'd like to test your settings to see why you'd be seeing such an increase in performance.

 

[odoe]

I use Linux on my laptop for simple browsing and email and on my fileserver.

My fileserver uses ClarkConnect and one of these days I'm going to ask you guys about samba and users and permissions for it because I really have a hate relationship going with my server on that front, but when I actually have time to sit at the thing and edit files I will.

 

[AdamW]

stellar: sure, but a), the frame rates reported by timedemos are *averages*, so if you're getting 130fps on average, in busy situations the slowdown may bring you below your refresh rate. And also, it's well-known that in Quake 3, you get some actual player movement benefits with higher framerates. (Just try making a tricky jump at 60fps then at 200fps). It's an engine bug.

I basically switched to Linux because I couldn't get MSN Messenger to quit launching on every boot when Windows XP came out. I figured if Windows had gone so far wrong that I couldn't easily control the startup of *my software* on *my computer* I didn't have much of a reason to keep using it any more...been using Mandrake ever since.

 

[Josh-]

I basically switched to Linux because I couldn't get MSN Messenger to quit launching on every boot when Windows XP came out. I figured if Windows had gone so far wrong that I couldn't easily control the startup of *my software* on *my computer* I didn't have much of a reason to keep using it any more...been using Mandrake ever since.

It's a checkbox in the MSN Messenger preferences. If you mean Windows Messenger, you disable the service. Either way, it's easy, and if you couldn't figure it out, Linux will be pretty tough for you.

 

[Stellar]

stellar: sure, but a), the frame rates reported by timedemos are *averages*, so if you're getting 130fps on average, in busy situations the slowdown may bring you below your refresh rate. And also, it's well-known that in Quake 3, you get some actual player movement benefits with higher framerates. (Just try making a tricky jump at 60fps then at 200fps). It's an engine bug.

I basically switched to Linux because I couldn't get MSN Messenger to quit launching on every boot when Windows XP came out. I figured if Windows had gone so far wrong that I couldn't easily control the startup of *my software* on *my computer* I didn't have much of a reason to keep using it any more...been using Mandrake ever since.

I have a very, very hard time believing you actually switched your entire operating system, much less to Linux, because you couldn't figure out how to get rid of MSN Messenger. There are over a dozen different ways to get rid of it, either through Add/Remove Windows Components, services.msc, msconfig, or with a simple unchecking of a box in the options menu of MSN Messenger.

In the first place, what's the big friggin deal about having MSN running in the background? Unbelievable how people will spend thousands of dollars to custom build their own machine and then get so picky about having a single background process taking up less than 1Mb of memory while the computer is running... God forbid.

 

[Arkaine23]

Hardware geek acsension- 2001 - 2003 (learned to build computers and overclock)
First used Linux end of 2003 (begin shifted focus away from gaming towards Alt OS's)

Thrown immediately into admin training with a small corp with 15 users and 60+ machines running Solaris, Gentoo, FreeBSD, and OpenBSD. Handled much upgrading from redhat to gentoo at that company. Laid off, rehired as part-time remote admin.

In between I developed a custom version of Knoppix (Overclockix). Was just slashdotted the first time 2 days ago. Have been listed on distrowatch for 3 out of 5 total major releases. Have been volunteering with Yoper Linux in helping with user support and porting Knoppix tech.

Using Linux at home for a little more than 2 years. I have multiple boxes, and continue using windows on the one I use for games (ATI card). The rest run Linux or are dual-boot and rarely ever operate in Windows.

 

[puck]

What's the big friggin deal about having MSN running in the background? Unbelievable how people will spend thousands of dollars to custom build their own machine and then get so picky about having a single background process taking up less than 1Mb of memory while the computer is running... God forbid.

whats wrong with not wanting worthelss processes running in the background? I want as little as possible running in the background. This gives you better performance and better security. The more crap you have in the background the more of a chance that one of tthose programs could contain a security exploit. Also those background tasks could be unstable and cause a BSOD.

I have 1GB of RAM of RAM in my computer. I hardly ever use more than 200MB of it in Linux, where as in Windows I use more than half just from booting up. In linux I hardly ever experience any slowdowns, everything loads up almost instantly. By having only the required processes runnning in the background my computer is faster, more secure, and more stable.

 

[Stellar]

whats wrong with not wanting worthelss processes running in the background? I want as little as possible running in the background. This gives you better performance and better security. The more crap you have in the background the more of a chance that one of tthose programs could contain a security exploit. Also those background tasks could be unstable and cause a BSOD.

I have 1GB of RAM of RAM in my computer. I hardly ever use more than 200MB of it in Linux, where as in Windows I use more than half just from booting up. In linux I hardly ever experience any slowdowns, everything loads up almost instantly. By having only the required processes runnning in the background my computer is faster, more secure, and more stable.

First of all, your points are all great and fine in theory, but in reality, MSN Messenger is not a security risk, and it does not hinder performance on a machine with 512Mb or 1Gb RAM, and it does not cause BSODs, at least never in my experience at home or as a field technician at a university with over 3000 Windows 2000 and XP computers on campus.

This is not to say that you should leave it running if you don't need it, as I don't on any of my machines, however it IS to say that it is in no way a legitimate cause to SWITCH YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM ENTIRELY.

In any case my point was that people are too picky and go to too much trouble to get rid of neglible background processes in a vain attempt to gain stability and performance on a machine that should already be more than adequate for their purposes. I do not think that everyone should leave unnecessary processes running in the background, but I damn sure don't go recommending Linux to people that can't figure out how to uninstall or disable MSN Messenger.

On a side note, if your Windows install was using up "more than half (512Mb+)" of your RAM "just booting up", then you have a significant problem with your install or you are laoding a LUDICROUS amount of cumbersome tray programs in your startup folder. My Windows machines have never booted to more than 300Mb of memory, even with both AIM and MSN starting up and connecting each time.

In any case I'm sure you were just exxagerating to try and tout the benefits of Linux, which is pretty much preaching to the choir considering I'm running Suse 9.2 on my Gateway box, and I can tell you it does not come CLOSE to booting up as quickly as my windows machine, even given the fact that I have next to nothing running "in the background"

 

[HHunt]

Stellar: You are underestimating the importance of details and psychological effects. No, really.

First of all, small irritating niggles can be more than enough to make people want to try something new. I've changed OS over things not much bigger. (Granted, I was already considering it at the time.). Small frustrations are that little incentive you need to try something different.

Also: There's a definite difference in atitude between the camps. Certain microsoft products have clear ideas about how things ought to be done, and if you don't agree, there's loops to jump. Many, though not all, (Gnome, I'm looking at you), OSS projects prefer to leave all options open, even if that makes things more confusing initially. Getting rid of the MSN startup is a symptome. The atitude MS seems to display is one of "we know better than you", heartly mixed with "don't think you are in control of this system". Compared to the OSS atitude of "here are nice tools, now make things do what you want", this is more than enough to change.

Last, give me one, one good reason I would want msn running if I don't use it.
"It's not a problem for it to be running" will not do, as it is only a reason not to spend time making it not run, which is a very different thing.

 

[HHunt]

I think this deserves a separate post, if nothing else then to keep things, well, separate.

To start somewhere, I still use windows for some things. Games. Some specific programs. Having something similar to look at during telephone troubleshooting.

That said, I don't do much real work there.
I started with linux of assorted variations ... 4? years ago. Red Hat, mandrake, etc. To be honest I don't remember the sordid details, but I got a fair idea of how the basics, and a healthy love-hate relationship with XFree86Config and its relatives.
Sometime about three years ago I drifted over to FreeBSD (4.5, I guess), and have more or less stayed there since. During my army year (two years ago) I had lots of spare time, an office, two computers, and a KVM switch. Things were migrated and consolidated on one of them, and I spent much of the year tinkering with FreeBSD. (let me tell you, upgrading X and KDE over ISDN takes ages. Avoid if possible.)

At the end of that I was very much more familiar with FreeBSD than any other open OS, and naturally I kept using it for everything possible. Now, an OS is in many ways just the place you run your applications, so I guess KDE is a big reason I've found some thinge I've done lately quite simple. [1]

A nice example of why I like my OS came up today: I got a new computer at school, but got to keep the HD for copying things out. This did interesting things with the partition names[2], but it still booted, and asked me where to find a root partition. Ten seconds later I was in singleuser, changed my fstab, mount -a, leave singleuser, and things Just Worked. Quick-and-ugly dd later[3], some quick fstab-editing, remove the old HD, reboot. Fsck, and things work.
Now, repeat that in windows. (That's a computer swap and a HD-to-HD migration in only a few more minutes than the basic copying took. Oh, and I did productive work over remote X in the meantime, with most of the source HD mounted readonly.)

[1] Some day I have to find the guy who wrote the fish:// kioslave and buy him a beer.
[2] It was PM (ad0), became SM (ad2), and the new HD is the first SATA-disk, at ad4.
[3] Crucially, the two HDs were about equally big, with the new one as the biggest by about 2Gb. As a side effect, I've now got a 2gb primary partition I've got to find an use for, if I don't just grow my /usr into it.
As for "ugly", the exact line was "dd if=/dev/ad2 of=/dev/ad4 bs=8192".
Replace ad2-> hdc and ad4->hde for the linux translation.

 

[Stellar]

Last, give me one, one good reason I would want msn running if I don't use it.
"It's not a problem for it to be running" will not do, as it is only a reason not to spend time making it not run, which is a very different thing.

Apparently, you didn't read either of my posts in full.

 

[Bullitt]

I havent fully switched to linux. I do use Windows for recreational purposes. If I could get all my games functioning in native linux, I would have no problems switching over.

I guess I started in late 2000 when I suddenly had a spare machine after an upgrade. I used started with mandrake 7 for the lesser learning curve. About 2 years later, after cutting my teeth on securing my system, I went to debian. That was fun. I was sick of RPM and failed dependencies hell (one of those things that is probably worked out, but I havent looked back). I went with 'nix to learn more about the back-end of our companies services (dns, email, http, etc) and having my own system allowed me to learn instead of asking tons of questions and getting the answer "Read the man pages."

I use my 64 bit system for my GUI and have a quiet little k62 running the bulk of my network. For "work" I use my 'nix boxes since all I really need is a ssh and telnet client for everything I do.

I've got nothing against windows, I just dont do "work" with it anymore. I've also failed to understand the comments I get when emailing my co-workers and supervisors because I use plain-text....

Nix simply works for me. I do use windows to play.

Oh, the comments about tremendous FPS increases in games.... I see those too. On my old system w/win2k + GF3 (no TI series yet) I got roughly 80 FPS average and lows of 30's in q3. With my 'nix at the time, I was hitting 160 and dips in the 40's. Night and day performance with the same configs.

Too bad I want to play games stuck in the DirectX mode of thinking... :\

 

[unhappy_mage]

I use Linux almost exclusively, but unfortunately I think I'm gonna have to install Windows to play games on. I had been running my box on Linux for about 5 months and no windows anywhere when my brother downloaded the Painkiller demo. Now we have the game and I'm itching to gib something, Windows = games, Linux = everything else.

I've had experience with Linux since about the fifth grade . It was redhat 5.2. That was the least pleasant experience working with a computer I've ever had. I had a DOS machine at that point (486/33!) and Linux was much more painful. Honestly, "mv" instead of "move"? What's with that? But despite my initial reaction, I came back into a completely OSS world, and am enjoying computing much more. I shall be sorry to install windows so I can p0wn some n00bs, but that's how life is.

Oh yeah, and I made a Linux distribution for Folding@Home. It is only 50ish MB, and the client's image is around 4. Wooha.

 

[mbrewthx]

I have been using Linux on and off since '97. Was introduced to it by the Network Admin at the University I used to work at. I managed all PCs, PC based Servers, and the Help Desk.
I wasn't too impressed at first. My background before then was programming and managing Mini Computers, no not minis like the Mac mini, But IBM s/36 s/34(COBOL, RPG. FORTRAN) and DEC PDP 11 mini which are the size of a freezer.
But after a while it's grown on me and I run a Laptop and a PC exclusively Linux and 1 PC XP pro.

 

[HHunt]

Apparently, you didn't read either of my posts in full.

"That's not to say you shouldn't leave it running if you don't use it", ok. Missed that crucial sentence.

 

[EmbraceThePenguin]

Some day I have to find the guy who wrote the fish:// kioslave and buy him a beer.

You and me both. Isn't that the sweetest little addition to Konqueror?

Joe

 

[EmbraceThePenguin]

I started out like most of you. On an old copy of Red Hat 5.2 I found in a book somewhere. I had messed around with Linux before, back when you have to compile everything. When I finally got everything booting I gave X windows a try. That took forever to compile and set up. Once I got it all going and typed startx, it was like the most dissapointing thing I had ever encountered. There was 3 terminal windows and a clock. Nothing else. I was pissed. All that work and I got the same thing I booted to; a terminal. Needless to say, I knew nothing about DE's or WM's, so I gave up on Linux.

Then, when I found RH 5.2 CD, I isntalled it and low and behold, there was X and KDE in all its glory. From there, I went up the list of releases from Red Hat and stopped at 9. Installed Mandrake and loved it untill I tried Gentoo. Thats where I am now and I like it just fine.

Linux has come a LONG way since I first booted from the floppy years ago. I am glad to be part of the community and enjoy useing it.

I occassionaly boot to WinXP to play a game or two, but I feel "Dirty" when I do that; and vulnerable too

That said, I am in Linux 99% of the time (Except for my laptop which is WinXP. Have to use that for work (Network Architect)) and find no real need to use Windows (Except for that occassional game)

Joe

 

[AdamW]

josh / stellar: this was right after XP came out, remember, and neither of you is right regarding that time. I know my way around computers. The preference in Messenger either wasn't there at the time or didn't work, I don't remember. I messed around with it for weeks. Editing the registry and deleting keys in more than five different locations would eventually work, but _only_ until I did any kind of official Microsoft update. These - even if completely unrelated - would, without fail, restore Messenger to start on boot.

Nowadays you can indeed make it stop. You still have to edit the registry. Ask yourself: why? Why should an operating system set itself up, *by default*, in such a way that it requires you to edit its registry to stop an *instant messenger* running on boot? Isn't that a fairly good indicator that there's something fundamentally wrong with the attitude of the people who wrote it? That was really my point, not the *fact* that Messenger was running.

And no, Linux isn't very hard for me, and hasn't been for the three years I've been running it. But thanks for the concern.

 

[[H]EMI_426]

jNowadays you can indeed make it stop. You still have to edit the registry. Ask yourself: why? Why should an operating system set itself up, *by default*, in such a way that it requires you to edit its registry to stop an *instant messenger* running on boot? Isn't that a fairly good indicator that there's something fundamentally wrong with the attitude of the people who wrote it? That was really my point, not the *fact* that Messenger was running.

What about FC2 and such that start a couple dozen services at boot? I turn off the graphical boot, start in console instead of X, turn off bluetooth, FreeWnn, memonitor, mdmpd, isdn, privoxy, cpuspeed, rhnsd, pcmcia and a few other services on almost all of the end-user machines we deploy at work. I fail to see how starting up 0947632746 services most people aren't going to need is any different than Microsoft turning on MSIM by default.

To disable the graphical boot I had to go edit a text file (/etc/sysconfig/init on FC). How is that much different than firing up regedit?

Don't get me wrong, I get annoyed that Microsoft jams MSIM down your throat, but you stating that just cause the OS does things you don't want by default is a reason to stop using an OS is a huge red herring.

 

[HHunt]

What about FC2 and such that start a couple dozen services at boot? I turn off the graphical boot, start in console instead of X, turn off bluetooth, FreeWnn, memonitor, mdmpd, isdn, privoxy, cpuspeed, rhnsd, pcmcia and a few other services on almost all of the end-user machines we deploy at work. I fail to see how starting up 0947632746 services most people aren't going to need is any different than Microsoft turning on MSIM by default.

To disable the graphical boot I had to go edit a text file (/etc/sysconfig/init on FC). How is that much different than firing up regedit?

Don't get me wrong, I get annoyed that Microsoft jams MSIM down your throat, but you stating that just cause the OS does things you don't want by default is a reason to stop using an OS is a huge red herring.

Well, there is a reason I don't use fedora.
(The true difference seems to be that the linuxes are meant to have documentation to tell you how to stop things like that, while on windows you feel like you're messing with things you're not supposed to touch. While the practicalities can be similar, the atitude is different.)

EmbraceThePenguin: Not only that, but being able to edit files on a remote server in kate as if they were local is one of the small joys in life.

 

[EmbraceThePenguin]

EmbraceThePenguin: Not only that, but being able to edit files on a remote server in kate as if they were local is one of the small joys in life.

Oh yeah. this is kewl. I have saved so much time with this. I wish I knew about it along time ago; or is this a new feature in 3.3.x?

I love Linux. So many ways to do everything and they are ALL cool

Thanks!!!

Joe

 

[AdamW]

em: yikes, that sounds a little dumb! I run Mandrake; its service philosophy is this. Any network server you install will be enabled by default, but none are installed by default (so you have to explicitly select a server to be installed to have it started on boot). Hardware related services like bluetooth, isdn would not be started unless you actually have hardware that uses them, in which case it's hardly 'useless'. X or console startup is a judgment call, but starting up in X makes sense to me. A lot of the other services you list are RH-specific and I don't know what they do, but I sure don't have anything like 'em running on my box, and I hardly tweak my services at all (the only one I've changed is harddrake, the hardware detection service, which I turned off because I don't need to wait for five seconds for it to check my hardware on boot...it's a perfectly sensible service for most users, though.) My box starts hotplug, udev, acpi, lm_sensors (because I installed it, not default), network, syslog, alsa, xfs, messagebus, bluetooth (I've got a bluetooth USB adapter), hal, netfs (MDK service for initialising network shares, it's only turned on because I have some and I specified I wanted them to be mounted on boot), dm (starts X), nifd, mDNSresponder (for zeroconf), atd, ntpd (again, because I manually set it up), sshd (ditto), tmdns, xinetd, keytable and crond on boot. Looks like a perfectly sensible list to me, and as I said the only manual change I've made is to turn harddrake off.

 

[[H]EMI_426]

But you did disable something...They obviously had reasons to want harddrake enabled, but you felt it was wise for your setup to disable it...Same goes for Windows and MSIM.

 

[Arkaine23]

How did a thread about the virtues of linux and its fans' humble stories of how they came to love it turn into a thread about disabling services you don't use? Enough! Any OS has to have some default configuration, whether*nix or M$, and there are tools and techniques to alter it. Big deal. Configure an OS how you want. Linux has an edge in the area of customizibility you know, and comes in a thousand flavors with different out-of-the-box configurations. So why are we discussing M$ messenger? Sure ok, M$ attitude, run what we say is good for you. Big deal, bc that can be fixed too, although if you go in that direction you're entering a holy war. So....

What's great about Linux? Why do you like? How did you get started with it?

 

[Stellar]

josh / stellar: this was right after XP came out, remember, and neither of you is right regarding that time. I know my way around computers. The preference in Messenger either wasn't there at the time or didn't work, I don't remember. I messed around with it for weeks. Editing the registry and deleting keys in more than five different locations would eventually work, but _only_ until I did any kind of official Microsoft update. These - even if completely unrelated - would, without fail, restore Messenger to start on boot.

Nowadays you can indeed make it stop. You still have to edit the registry. Ask yourself: why? Why should an operating system set itself up, *by default*, in such a way that it requires you to edit its registry to stop an *instant messenger* running on boot? Isn't that a fairly good indicator that there's something fundamentally wrong with the attitude of the people who wrote it? That was really my point, not the *fact* that Messenger was running.

And no, Linux isn't very hard for me, and hasn't been for the three years I've been running it. But thanks for the concern.

You realize how ironic it is, a Linux user complaining about having to make 1 registry edit in Windows XP?

I don't know about you, but I spend a good 2 or 3 days of nothing but console command-line BS and text editors to get my Linux installs lined out.

 

[starhawk]

i'm going to try linux of some sort on my first mod... if it works nicely, it'll stay that way.

but i'm really used to windows and i really prefer windows apps-- easy to get, plug-and-play, no finagleing.

if there was a version of linux that was 100% compatible with windows apps then i would get it.

 

[AdamW]

No, it's not the same. MS installing and running their instant messenger is an attempt to push an application at me with the intent of monopolising *another* marketplace and enlarging their own profit margin. (Check the popularity of ICQ, AIM and Yahoo! Messenger before and after MS started bundling and pushing Messenger...) It's intrusive and irritating. harddrake is there to detect changes in static hardware. It's not an application, it doesn't require user interaction (unless it *finds* any changes), and it's providing a service any sane OS ought to provide. Hence, it's not the same. I turn it off because I know what it does, I know how to deal with hardware changes manually and I don't want to wait five seconds for it to run during boot. That's all. And Stellar, all you're doing is proving that you *still* don't understand my point. My point is that the Messenger issue is *illustrative* of Microsoft's increasingly irritating design attitude, which involves doing all sorts of things without the user's involvement which frustrate the user, and utterly refusing to respect user changes. I don't have to do a lot of command-line hacking on my Linux installations, but even if I did, thanks to the way most Linux distributions work and the attitudes and philosophies they follow, I would at least know that *once I made the changes* running a simple software update would not go behind my back and revert them! That is my problem, and I've explained it several times already, so please stop intentionally missing the point.

 

[[H]EMI_426]

Well, I'll continue to think you're tossing out a huge red herring for complaining about something Windows does that you can disable while you happily disable a service for Mandrake. The fact that you're complaining about something any company in a similar position would do that you can easily control speaks volumes.

 

[AdamW]

does OS X load iChat on boot by default?

(note: this is a genuine question. I don't know the answer.)

 

[AdamW]

oh, and btw, ironically it's clear from your very *post* that you actually understand the difference, you're just not thinking about it. as you said, harddrake is a 'service'. It's not a user-facing application, it presents no interface and takes up no screen space. In fact, it's not even a daemon - it doesn't stay resident, it just runs, does its thing, then stops running. There's no instance of harddrake running once the system is done booting. Messenger is not a service. It's an application. It loads, stays resident, and presents a user interface, thus getting in the way of the user, occupying real estate, and occupying system resources - three things the harddrake service does not do.

 

[[H]EMI_426]

So turn it off and quit complaining about it already? Geesh.

 

[james.m.flood]

Can you post the settings you used or your *.cfg?

unfortunately i dont know how to post this without having it take up a huge amount of room.. so if someone knows how then tell me and i'll edit to make it smaller
far startes though i'll take out all the stuff that shouldnt impact performace

@1280x1024

seta cg_newPhysics "1"
seta cg_speedometer "0"
seta cg_predictRailTrails "1"
seta cg_delag "1"
seta cg_hintNum "1"
seta cg_showHints "1"
seta cg_allowForceFilters "1"
seta com_gibs "1"
seta g_proximityLife "25"
seta g_throwFlags "1"
seta bot_alternateRoutes "1"
seta g_grappleSpeed "1200.000000"
seta g_offhandGrapple "0"
seta g_explodingAmmo "1"
seta g_fallingDamage "1"
seta g_selfDamage "2"
seta g_bounceMissiles "1"
seta g_teleportMissiles "1"
seta ui_koth_hillMoveTime "30"
seta cm_playerCurveClip "1"
seta cg_trueLightning "0.0"
seta cg_oldPlasma "0"
seta cg_oldRocket "0"
seta cg_oldRail "0"
seta ui_bigFont "0.4"
seta ui_smallFont "0.25"
seta cg_noProjectileTrail "0"
seta cg_noTaunt "0"
seta cg_smoothClients "0"
seta cg_scorePlums "1"
seta cg_cameraOrbitDelay "50"
seta cg_noVoiceText "0"
seta cg_noVoiceChats "0"
seta cg_teamChatsOnly "0"
seta cg_drawFriend "1"
seta cg_drawTeamOverlay "0"
seta cg_deferPlayers "1"
seta cg_forceModel "0"
seta cg_teamChatHeight "0"
seta cg_teamChatTime "3000"
seta cg_railTrailTime "1200"
seta cg_lagometer "0"
seta cg_simpleItems "0"
seta cg_crosshairY "0"
seta cg_crosshairX "0"
seta cg_crosshairHealth "1"
seta cg_crosshairSize "24"
seta cg_drawRewards "1"
seta cg_drawAttacker "1"
seta cg_drawAmmoWarning "1"
seta cg_drawIcons "1"
seta cg_draw3dIcons "1"
seta cg_drawSnapshot "0"
seta cg_drawFPS "1"
seta cg_drawTimer "0"
seta cg_drawStatus "1"
seta cg_draw2D "1"
seta cg_gibs "1"
seta cg_stereoSeparation "0.4"
seta cg_fov "90"
seta cg_zoomfov "20"
seta cg_drawGun "1"
seta cg_shadows "3"
seta cg_marks "1"
seta cg_drawCrosshairNames "1"
seta cg_drawCrosshair "7"
seta cg_brassTime "2500"
seta g_spSkill "3"
seta com_soundMegs "16"
seta s_mixPreStep "0.05"
seta s_mixahead "0.2"
seta s_khz "22"
seta s_doppler "1"
seta s_separation "0.5"
seta s_musicvolume "0.825000"
seta s_volume "0.8"
seta r_lastValidRenderer "GeForceFX5200/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!"
seta r_primitives "0"
seta r_railSegmentLength "24"
seta r_railCoreWidth "8"
seta r_railWidth "64"
seta r_facePlaneCull "1"
seta r_gamma "1.100000"
seta r_swapInterval "0"
seta r_textureMode "GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR"
seta r_finish "0"
seta r_dlightBacks "1"
seta r_dynamiclight "1"
seta r_drawSun "1"
seta r_fastsky "0"
seta r_ignoreGLErrors "1"
seta r_flares "0"
seta r_lodbias "0"
seta r_lodCurveError "250"
seta r_ignoreFastPath "0"
seta r_smp "0"
seta r_subdivisions "1"
seta r_vertexLight "0"
seta r_simpleMipMaps "1"
seta r_customaspect "1"
seta r_customheight "1024"
seta r_customwidth "1600"
seta r_fullscreen "1"
seta r_mode "8"
seta r_ignorehwgamma "0"
seta r_overBrightBits "1"
seta timedemo "0"
seta r_depthbits "24"
seta r_stencilbits "0"
seta r_colorbits "32"
seta r_texturebits "32"
seta r_detailtextures "1"
seta r_roundImagesDown "1"
seta r_picmip "0"
seta r_ext_texture_env_add "1"
seta r_ext_compiled_vertex_array "1"
seta r_ext_multitexture "1"
seta r_ext_gamma_control "1"
seta r_ext_compressed_textures "1"
seta r_allowExtensions "1"
seta r_glDriver "libGL.so.1"
seta cg_viewsize "100"
seta cg_predictItems "1"
seta cl_punkbuster "0"
seta cl_anonymous "0"
seta sex "male"
seta handicap "100"
seta color2 "5"
seta color1 "1"
seta name "Icy"
seta com_introplayed "1"
seta com_blood "1"
seta com_maxfps "999"
seta com_hunkMegs "386"
seta cl_timeNudge "0"
seta s_ambient "1"
seta cg_smokeradius_rl "64"
seta cg_smokeradius_gl "32"
seta cg_smokegrowth_rl "1"
seta cg_smokegrowth_gl "1"
seta cg_smoke_sg "1"
seta cg_showPlayerLean "1"
seta cg_scoreTransparency "1.0"
seta cg_q3compScoreboard "1"
seta cg_statScrollTime "0.15"
seta cg_oversampleMouse "0"
seta cg_oldCTFSounds "0"
seta cg_nomip "0"
seta cg_NoMOTDDisplayDuringDemo "0"
seta cg_nochatbeep "0"
seta cg_muzzleFlash "1"
seta cg_MaxlocationWidth "16"
seta cg_lightningImpact "1"
seta cg_forceColors "0"
seta cg_followviewcam "1"
seta cg_followpowerup "0"
seta cg_followkiller "0"
seta cg_drawKiller "1"
seta cg_float "0"
seta cg_fallKick "1"
seta cg_execVstr ""
seta cg_enemyModel ""
seta cg_enemyColors "0"
seta cg_enableOSPHUD "1"
seta sndbits "16"
seta sndspeed "0"
seta sndchannels "2"
seta snddevice "/dev/dsp"
seta cg_blood "1"
seta com_zoneMegs "16"​