The Large Hadron Collider Shutting Down For A Year

People:
1) the particles they are smashing together do not have enough mass to form a black hole. Black holes are massive. more massive than all of the mass of our sun. And yet people persist on believing that particle smashing creates black holes...

2) the 2012 (solar system aligned with center of the milky-way) thing.. well guess what. we are ALREADY aligned. the width of the plane of the milky way is thick enough that our sun has been in the alignment since the 90's and will continue to be in the alignment zone for many more years. Any "gravity" forces that were supposed to add together and rip the guts from the center of the earth, should have already done so. The milky way is soo big, that even the flat plane must be hundreds of thousands of miles. the sun a small dot which has passed into this zone already. I'm not even sure that 2012 represents the exact middle of this zone. It takes the sun about 640,000 years to make one orbit around the solar system. The suns orbit is not exactly aligned with the plane of the milky way. So twice every orbit, or once every 320,000 years, we pass thru this "alignment", or roughly 3 times every 1 million years. The earth is what 4+ billion years old. thats equal to 4,000 million years. So this mystical OMG OMG alignment has already happened more than 12,000 times in the earths' existence. Who knows, maybe THIS time around, something will happen! I have to believe that those superstitious dead native americans KNEW SOMETHING that we don't! They had a star based calendar, which reaches a natural, expected zenith when this alignment happens. End of the world? no.

Oh well, it does make for a good movie.
 
GoodBoy,
I love your post. I hate all the people talking about 2012, and that they are gonna die. haha

Anyway, back on topic. If I was a scientist I wouldn't mess with creating a black hole. Don't want some Half-Life action going on in reality. :p
 
WorldExclusive said:
Sounds like some of stuff the Nazis were working on the the 1940's. Some of these scientist needs to get a life. Spending my tax dollars on BS. What is this machine going to do for people that have diseases such as Cancer and Diabetes? Scientist need to focus on today's problems, not on things that occurred billions of years ago they will never understand.
Click to expand...


In your world, every scientist can do anything when told to. These are not scientists of medicine, they are scientists of physics. It's not like on day they can create a nuclear bomb and the next day start mapping DNA.

krotch said:
Huh? The internet all started from DARPA.

Now Folding@Home I feel is a waste of time. All I see from that project is stupid papers that no one uses for anything. Hence why I stopped folding on all my machines and PS3s.

Velcro also didn't come from the space race. NASA adopting it, did help popularize velcro, but velcro wasn't created for NASA in mind.
Click to expand...


Actually, my friend is on a research fellowship at NIH and he's referencing those papers heavily - a lot of people are.
 
DrDoU said:
never mined
Click to expand...

hah, beat by the no edit system. We need to make one of those online petitions to get kyle to give us the ability to edit our posts in the news section :p

GoodBoy said:
...
Oh well, it does make for a good movie.
Click to expand...

Nope, we're all doomed. I think we're scheduled to hit a nebulae in... what sept 2014? The magnetosphere is apparently supposed to reverse itself pretty soon, all that let in radiation is probably going to bake us all alive. I'm also in Vancouver, which sits on a fault line which is apparently supposed to kill me and everyone I know in the near future.

Black holes really aren't all that scary, infact their almost intuitive; if gravity is a force that increases proportionally with mass... and the strong nuclear and electromagnetic forces don't.... isn't there some amount of mass at which the gravitational force will "crush" the combine efforts of the strong nuclear and electromagnetic forces? Yup. A black hole has a finite mass, which means it adheres to newtons universal laws of gravitation, it just has that finite mass in what appears to be zero volume. Its density is then defined by mass/0.

I <3 doomsday theories.

Its easy to get scared by what mathematics and physics come up with. I love looking at all these "zomg you divided by zero => doom of universe" pictures 4chan comes up with. Evidently none of these people have ever heard of a tangent. I think first year calculus needs to be compulsory.

Anyways, what I originally wanted to say was that while I'm for the LHC, I'm definitely more for ITER. Solving every energy problem we've ever had and will ever have forever is more important to me than finding out what happened from t = 10e-9 secs to t = 10e-6 secs after "the big bang".
 
In "From The Earth To The Moon" there is a scene where, I believe, the head of North American Aviation is talking about issues building the Apollo modules. He says "NASA says were over budget and over schedule". He asks how exactly does someone come up with the budget and time frame for going to the Moon?

:p
 
krotch said:
CERN came out way after. They had absolutely nothing to do with ARPANET. Then came TCP/IP, again, from DARPA that started getting used on ARPANET. They started interconnecting all the existing networks together, like NASA and such. Forming the first portions of the internet.

Later on, others started using TCP/IP and eventually everything got thrown together and we have the internet as of now. CERN? Pfff, didn't need them for that.

Can credit CERN for WWW, not sure as hell not the internet.
Click to expand...

Maybe you're just nit-picking, but isn't the "internet" now a common name for the WWW (HTTP), FTP, SMTP and a variety of other protocols? I only mentioned CERN because they were involved in the early construction of networks. I guess i could have listed a DARPA and a bazillion other organizations that did, but I could care less if I offend one or two people who actually care?
 
DogChainX said:
Maybe you're just nit-picking, but isn't the "internet" now a common name for the WWW (HTTP), FTP, SMTP and a variety of other protocols? I only mentioned CERN because they were involved in the early construction of networks. I guess i could have listed a DARPA and a bazillion other organizations that did, but I could care less if I offend one or two people who actually care?
Click to expand...

The internet might be the common name for Web for your average non-IT person, but doesn't mean it's correct. The Web is not the internet. It's simply a service that runs on the internet.

The creation all started from the US government and 4 US universities. ARPANET. Other companies, countries, etc had their own networks all running on different things. Which led to DARPA making the TCP/IP protocol. Next thing you know, all these US networks are slapped together. Forming the internet.

From there, TCP/IP starts going global and other countries start using TCP/IP. CERN being one of them. They didn't even want to interconnect with anywhere else and stayed seperate til 1989, when CERN finally joined the internet.

As time went on, all those X.25 networks in Europe transitioned over to TCP/IP, becoming part of the internet.
 
Thank god!

I'll bet they fire it up just in time for the 2012 end of the world time!

A fitting end. We kill ourselves. LOL
 
The shutdowns and general rampant failure of the LHC to do anything useful should be proof positive that those behind it are perhaps not as competent as they should be. A team of physicists couldn't correctly calculate the stress tolerance required of the components? O RLY? Besides which, you trust these people to have safeguards against world-destroying black holes when they are vulnerable to bread?
 
Maybe I missed something but can someone tell me what difference does it make between knowing and not knowing how the universe was born? :confused:
 
alg7_munif said:
Maybe I missed something but can someone tell me what difference does it make between knowing and not knowing how the universe was born? :confused:
Click to expand...

My guess is it will help scietist to better understand universe structure and laws of nature knowing how it was born.

Knowing better laws of nature scintist can come up with new amazing things like traveling at a speed of light, antygravity etc. And all these can be practically applied in our everyday lives. so, it is important.
 
GoodBoy said:
People:
1) the particles they are smashing together do not have enough mass to form a black hole. Black holes are massive. more massive than all of the mass of our sun. And yet people persist on believing that particle smashing creates black holes...
Click to expand...

That's funny because I read an article that quoted one of the scientists working on the project as saying that they have in fact created and observed tiny black holes with it...
 
NoForgiveness said:
That's funny because I read an article that quoted one of the scientists working on the project as saying that they have in fact created and observed tiny black holes with it...
Click to expand...

tiny black holes that cannot stay alive long enough due to they have not enough mass. So, it is not possible to make a stable black hole with such small mass colliding.
 
I want to speak with the guys who know how to milk funding from the rich. Those are the real genius's.
 
Deluded said:
So what happens if one is standing in front of the LHC and it shoots a particle at 99% of light speed?
Click to expand...

The detection of particle collisions was more of a confidence boost to all those working at LHCb, the experiment that will seek to examine the differences between matter and antimatter. The collisions themselves were produced at a purposefully positioned concrete block near where the counter-clockwise proton bunch entered the LHC beam pipe. When the proton bunch struck the block, the resultant debris showered 200 m down the pipe and was picked up by the silicon detector at LHCb known as VELO (vertex locator).
Click to expand...

http://physicsworld.com/blog/2008/08/lhc_kicks_in_both_directions.html
 
beowulf7 said:
The LHC did create a blackhole all right ... as in never ending cost! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yea, stupid people trying to figure out the universe! Why can't they cure mah diabetes! I hate when physicists try to unlock the secrets of reality, what a bunch of idiots. We undereducated internet posters should rule the world!
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Yea, stupid people trying to figure out the universe! Why can't they cure mah diabetes! I hate when physicists try to unlock the secrets of reality, what a bunch of idiots. We undereducated internet posters should rule the world!
Click to expand...

Sad part is the undereducated internet posters could probably do a better job at times...
 
Sorry, late to the thread. Let me get this straight, the LHC is shutting down at the end of 2011 for up to a year? In other words, it will probably be started up again around oh, say, December 21, 2012?

Um...
 
gtg465x said:
Sorry, late to the thread. Let me get this straight, the LHC is shutting down at the end of 2011 for up to a year? In other words, it will probably be started up again around oh, say, December 21, 2012?

Um...
Click to expand...

Quote from Wikipedia for the lazy...

The 2012 phenomenon comprises a range of eschatological beliefs that cataclysmic or transformative events will occur on December 21 or December 23, 2012, which is said to be the end-date of a 5,125-year-long cycle in the Mayan Long Count calendar...

...Others suggest that the 2012 date marks the end of the world or a similar catastrophe. Scenarios posited for the end of the world include the Earth's collision with a passing planet (often referred to as "Nibiru") or black hole...
Click to expand...
 
JDAdams said:
The shutdowns and general rampant failure of the LHC to do anything useful should be proof positive that those behind it are perhaps not as competent as they should be. A team of physicists couldn't correctly calculate the stress tolerance required of the components? O RLY? Besides which, you trust these people to have safeguards against world-destroying black holes when they are vulnerable to bread?
Click to expand...

Or perhaps we should reiterate: this is the most complex machine mankind has ever endeavored to design, construct and use. People who don't understand how a car or a television set works have about as much business talking here as people who don't know the difference between real and nominal GDP have talking at a stockholder meeting. It's just tacky, please stop.

I am studying particle physics at the graduate level and frankly the technicality of the subject falls so far outside the realm of every day life that it's embarrassing. But do not make the mistake of dismissing it on these grounds alone. It's worth remembering that particle physics stands on the frontiers of REAL science. You know, that same thing that is responsible for absolutely every amenity you enjoy in your life today?

You are neither credible nor qualified when you question the usefulness of such a study. You display an embarrassing level of shortsightedness and downright ignorance when you do so. We don't know what will come of it, but if the study of the physical world by the scientific method has taught us anything, it should be that knowing is always better than not knowing.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Yea, stupid people trying to figure out the universe! Why can't they cure mah diabetes! I hate when physicists try to unlock the secrets of reality, what a bunch of idiots. We undereducated internet posters should rule the world!
Click to expand...

Yeah, esp. scientists who aren't as smart and competent as they think they are. :p

*ducks for cover*
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top