The HDCP ripoff

[dkjack]

Seems that in trying to play a BlueRay DVD on your pc you need HDCP compliance with both your card and your display. A 30-inch display requires dual-link DVI to achieve native resolution of 2560x1600. But HDCP support is said to be available only through single-link DVI. So, for 2560x1600 displays, this means resolution limited to 1920x1200? (Of course for 1080p HD there will be upscaling, which the Gateway XHD3000 reportedly does quite well.)

So, I was wondering if there was anybody out there who has a 30” display on which they can play their BlueRay content at native 2560x1600. Anybody playing it through 64-bit XP/Vista?

 

[ashmedai]

That would be part of why HDCP is retarded.

You could always run a second output to the same display in parallel using the HDMI connector. It's a pain, but it should cleanly get around the problem.

 

[xX_Jack_Carver_Xx]

AnyDVD-HD strips off the HDCP element from BLuRay, see if that solves the issue.

 

[-Dragon-]

Hop on bit torrent and download a ripped copy of the movie you paid for and watch it how you want to watch it without artificially imposed limitations due to the fact that you're an early adopter (and as such one of the ones most likely to try new technology)?

DRM is EPIC (win or fail you decide).

 

[ashmedai]

Shouldn't really be discussing DRM circumvention here. Or copyright infringement.

 

[-Dragon-]

It's not infringement if he already owns the movie.

 

[ashmedai]

You might be able to get a lawyer to argue that, but I don't really recommend you try arguing it with a mod. Here it tends to earn people vacations because they need to keep there from being any hint of anything that could possibly put [H] in a position of liability - aside from any ethical, moral, or legal positions. I'm not advocating any interpretation of it, just pointing out that it's taboo here.

Also, it doesn't really help the OP at all.

 

[Deusfaux]

I'm not sure I understand the OP

The Dell 3007 WFP can only accept 2 resolutions - 2560x1600 and 1280x800. It IS HDCP compatible. The DVI connector is obviously dual-link.

What are you suggesting happens when someone tried to play a blu ray on this monitor?

It would play at 1280x800?

 

[ashmedai]

Well, he has a Gateway XHD3000. The spec for HDCP doesn't incorporate dual link DVI, so in theory it won't work with Bluray playback when running at native res over a dual link cable.

Which raises a good point, and makes me wonder whether he's actually tried it. Maybe it works fine?


But no, the presence of a dual-link connector doesn't speak to the current situation. It might well work after all, but we can't accurately deduce anything from that.

 

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

Downloading isn't illegal in my country.

I don't get the point of buying a movie, not being able to play because of stupid restrictions of the movie companies and then downloading the movie so you can watch it. I strongly support 'learning the hard way' for those movie companies. I am more then willing to buy a BD drive for my PC and buy BD movies. But I simply don't because they won't let me play them (7900 GTX from first batch and Dell 2007FP monitors), so I download 720P *.MKV's or get those (or even 1080P) on LAN parties.

As I said before many times;

-DRM is an obstacle for the honest buyer
-DRM will get cracked anyway
-The non-buyer can enjoy the downloaded DRM-free content without problem.

And with DRM the entertainment industry forces more and more people into the non-buyer group.

Oh, and to be honest; 99.5% of my music is from original CD's (classical music).

<BS>

What's next?
> Your media device will connect to a server to tell the industry what movie you are watching on what device and save that in your personal record. Offcourse it also saves the GPS coordinates into your file.

</BS>

If I buy a monitor I always look if it's HDCP compatible, because I prefer to buy non-compatbile monitors. Why should I buy something that supports something evil like that? I'm not gonna pay for something that stupid.
Just the same with HDMI. For my next monitor I'm gonna check to make sure it does not have HDMI. It's just DVI + audio with an inferior connector. Well, the audio is coming from my X-Fi directly to the speakers, so no need for audio signal in the monitorcable (and I see no reason why someone would want to connect their speakers to their monitor?). Secondly I don't like cables dropping out my monitor when I rotate it and last but not least: there is a royalty of $0.04 for every HDMI device. No thanks; I'm not gonna pay for something that stupid what is inferior to free to use standards like DVI or Displayport.

 

[Elledan]

HDCP is spoiling some of the fun of watching HD content on my friend's plasma TV due to it losing sync or something with the playback device every few minutes for a second or two, meaning gaps in the audio and video.

In the OP's case, definitely try to see whether it works over dual-DVI and else it's time to rip the disc or find a copy from someone who has already done exactly this. You bought the content and format shifting is perfectly legal, despite what the **AA wants you to believe.

 

[dkjack]

First off, I don't think the HD industry is thrilled to have HD near computers, for obvious reasons. If they had their way, the only thinkg you could connect your BlueRay player to would be a TV.

Deusfaux, what I think happens when you play BlueRay on, say, the Dell 3007 WFP is that, because it is HDCP compliant, it will display the DVD, just not at native 2650x1600 resolution. (The 3007WFP has no built-in scaler, which is not a good thing, but a different issue.) SInce the only other resolution of the 3007 WFP is 1280x800, i.e. equivalent of Single-Link or 720p, that's what you get with HDCP content.

There are huge debates about this issue, including an almost year-and-a-half long thread here on HardForum. There's also a "lively" one over at macrumors.

Given all the contention about the issue, you might understand if I don't have all my premises "updated." For example, it looks like as of now, HDCP is supported by Dual-Link DVI. It would be nice if DisplayPort were established. It supports both 2650x1600 and HDCP. Alas, except for the 3008 WFP and a few video cards, so far it's vaporware. (Samsung announced a 30-inch DisplayPort to come out "second quarter 2008". Vaporware.)

Anyway, that's why I wanted to hear from someone who actually has a 2650x1600 display which they play BlueRay on at full native resolution. So far, though I've posted a similar inquiry on other boards, no one seems to have this setup. Or at least no one who cares to respond.

Not sure if someone thinks I have a Gateway. I don't. I'm just doing my due diligence before I invest in a 30-inch and the hardware that supports it, and was saying that tthe Gateway XHD3000 reportedly does a good job of handling HDCP content. (see ExtremeTech review)

Until recently, no video processor for PC displays was really capable of handling the video processing needed to properly scale to 2560x1600. Instead, your PC system's graphics card was used to handle video processing for existing 30-inch monitors.

That changed on October 4th [2007], when Gateway announced their XHD3000 display, which incorporates a Silicon Optix Realta chipset. Normally used in high end consumer electronics hardware, Silicon Optix video processors offer the horsepower needed to scale and de-interlace both standard definition and HD video streams.

No other display seems to have this capability. Unfortunately, there are some issues with this Gateway's image quality, as there are with that of the Dell 3008 WFP.

Ashmedai, you say,

run a second output to the same display in parallel using the HDMI connector. It's a pain, but it should cleanly get around the problem.

I'm not quite clear here. I'm thinking the display only uses one output/input at a time. Are you saying the display will take both outputs in parallel? Sorry for being obtuse.

 

[hoffstetter]

I don't understand buying movies at all. Just get netflix. You're only going to watch a movie once anyhow. And if you're in love you can rip it.

 

[veritas7]

Aye. I don't get why people also get Blu Ray drives and/or players nowadays.

Just buy a PS3... it might be what, $50 more than your drive (maybe even less for your player) and hook it up via HDMI or HDMI->DVI to your monitor nowadays and use it for your Blu Ray on your monitor or TV (since it's an upgradeable player!).

That's what I got for my setup... PS3 60GB => HDMI->DVI cable => DoubleSight DS-263N on DVI-I (D2) plugin on REAL resolution of 1920x1080 (black bars on top and bottom) and it looks awesome.

 

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

You know that consoles are evil, do you?

And that a PS3 is the cheapest way to get a BD player is not true anymore.

A PS3 would cost me € 400, a BD-Rom 5.25" drive will cost me € 90, so I don't see any reason at all why I should pay € 310 for something less.

@dkjack:
ho ho ho, the problem is clear here: the fact that the entertainment industry wants to be involved in the connection of your monitor to your PC, not that the monitor doesn't support that.

You should boycot HDCP content, not the good monitors who don't support is.

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Downloading isn't illegal in my country.

I don't get the point of buying a movie, not being able to play because of stupid restrictions of the movie companies and then downloading the movie so you can watch it. I strongly support 'learning the hard way' for those movie companies. I am more then willing to buy a BD drive for my PC and buy BD movies. But I simply don't because they won't let me play them (7900 GTX from first batch and Dell 2007FP monitors), so I download 720P *.MKV's or get those (or even 1080P) on LAN parties.

As I said before many times;

-DRM is an obstacle for the honest buyer
-DRM will get cracked anyway
-The non-buyer can enjoy the downloaded DRM-free content without problem.

And with DRM the entertainment industry forces more and more people into the non-buyer group.

Oh, and to be honest; 99.5% of my music is from original CD's (classical music).

<BS>

What's next?
> Your media device will connect to a server to tell the industry what movie you are watching on what device and save that in your personal record. Offcourse it also saves the GPS coordinates into your file.

</BS>

If I buy a monitor I always look if it's HDCP compatible, because I prefer to buy non-compatbile monitors. Why should I buy something that supports something evil like that? I'm not gonna pay for something that stupid.
Just the same with HDMI. For my next monitor I'm gonna check to make sure it does not have HDMI. It's just DVI + audio with an inferior connector. Well, the audio is coming from my X-Fi directly to the speakers, so no need for audio signal in the monitorcable (and I see no reason why someone would want to connect their speakers to their monitor?). Secondly I don't like cables dropping out my monitor when I rotate it and last but not least: there is a royalty of $0.04 for every HDMI device. No thanks; I'm not gonna pay for something that stupid what is inferior to free to use standards like DVI or Displayport.

let me guess. You mean Germany ?

To my understanding DRM has bogged down system resources which is why i am against DRM because it is using our computer resources for something we dont want or even need. If MCA and their ILK want us so much to use it, they should be paying us for using our computer resources to use this crap.

 

[ashmedai]

For example, it looks like as of now, HDCP is supported by Dual-Link DVI.

That would be nice. I wasn't aware it was *not* supported until you brought it up, but on the other hand there are few enough BD releases that I haven't really encountered the problem more than very occasionally.

It would be nice if DisplayPort were established. It supports both 2650x1600 and HDCP. Alas, except for the 3008 WFP and a few video cards, so far it's vaporware. (Samsung announced a 30-inch DisplayPort to come out "second quarter 2008". Vaporware.)

It seems to be more so than you believe; for example, the new HP 24" H-IPS monitor incorporates a DisplayPort connection. It's new, not vaporware.

Anyway, that's why I wanted to hear from someone who actually has a 2650x1600 display which they play BlueRay on at full native resolution.

Very few people have 2650x1600 displays, very few people use BD for a substantial portion of their video library. Multiply the two...not many people have tried this to reply.

Not sure if someone thinks I have a Gateway. I don't. I'm just doing my due diligence before I invest in a 30-inch and the hardware that supports it, and was saying that tthe Gateway XHD3000 reportedly does a good job of handling HDCP content.

Ah. That would clarify a few things that are missing from your original post.

I'm not quite clear here. I'm thinking the display only uses one output/input at a time. Are you saying the display will take both outputs in parallel? Sorry for being obtuse.

One at a time, yes.

If it comes to it, connect the display at 2650x1600 over the dual-link DVI and at 1900x1080 over the HDMI connection. Since you can't have both instances of the display connected simultaneously you will probably have to fool around with resolution settings every time instead of just hitting the source button on the monitor. However, it would provide a workaround in the case that dual-link DVI and HDMI have the interaction with HDCP and the resolutions involved that you named earlier.

That's only a workaround based on the assumption that your premises are correct. Unfortunately, since it turns out you're doing pre-shopping research, it's a little hard to test them...but if you're right that dual-link isn't a problem after all, then at worst you can probably just change your monitor resolution before a BD playback.

It really doesn't work very well with a PC though; as you say, there are many interests out to deliberately cripple it in any way they can find so they can get as much control over everything as possible.