The HD 3850 AGP User Experience

[jonneymendoza]

could it be a driver issue? are you using nvidia's own drivers or Gainward's? how old are they?

im using nvidia's drivers and the last time i updated them was around october/november. when i updated it it made little to know improvement

 

[ashram]

just played a few games over the weekend (no fps numbers though) and was impress. have a question though... does the sapphire hd3850 agp support audio over hdmi??
no amount of searching has given me an answer yet and for some reason, my spare hdmi cable is mia!

 

[LordVampyre]

Okay, was just over on bluesnews.com and Blue states were getting new ati drivers tomorrow.... anyone know if they will work for our 3850 apg cards?? Just wondering before I even try them.

 

[NEVERLIFT]

Just got my 3850 this afternoon and been playing around with it.
Got the latest drivers off Sapphire's site as the ones off the CD seem flakey and won't install or work right.

Anyway all my games are running great with smooth fps.

And just for the hell of it here's my 3DMark06 score... who says s754 and AGP are dead?!?!

system spec:
Chaintech VNF3-250 / BIOS VN120916
Athlon64 3000+ Venice @ 2.6ghz / Zalman Fatal1ty FS-C77
2gb Gskill PC4400(ddr550) @ 2.5-4-3-8-2T

PS: during the winter I'm only good for 2.6ghz because the wife keeps the house too hot... but during the summer with the AC going I'm good for 2.73ghz easy and have even benched at 2.9ghz in 3DMark01SE and 06... but its not stable in Prime95 over 2,73ghz

 

[Sunin]

Funny thing is if you consider the fact that modern cpu's get 4k scores that 6k turns into nearly a 10k 06 score which is respectable and definitely something you can enjoy gaming with!

 

[evolucion8]

So, are you saying that the score is ridiculous? Considering that is a single core CPU, the score is respectable and there's no game that scales with multi cores so massively like 3DMark06 does.

 

[jonneymendoza]

at teh end of the day 3DMARK is useless has it doesnt show how good a graphcis card is in REAL world performance. hardly anyone uses it to benchmark a card including [H]

 

[God_Of_Death]

holy sh!t. AGP people are damned if they do and damned if they don't. we can't run a benchmark without being told how horrid our systems and scores are.


@ jonneymendoza, dude we know all about madonion's and [H]'s little feud. no need to regurgitate what is common knowledge. the reason why most of us still run these benchmarks is because it does give us an IDEA as to how our systems compare with newer systems using the same card. if you bother to read the entire thread you will also notice that we use our recent games to compare it to our last card. so at the end of OUR day we use both the games we play and benchmarks to gauge our upgrade.

 

[Sunin]

So, are you saying that the score is ridiculous? Considering that is a single core CPU, the score is respectable and there's no game that scales with multi cores so massively like 3DMark06 does.

I agree 100%, what we as AGP users should be comparing are the top two scores... not the CPU score... and if you look at those our systems are NOT that far behind. Its been said a dozen times.. .AGP has only seen its life die because the computer industry moved to PCIE not because it was bandwidth limited.

 

[ashram]

anyone try out the new catalyst 8.3's with a 3850 agp yet??? i won't be able to for another 2-3 hours.

 

[pimpdad82]

8.3 does NOT work with the Sapphire HD 3850. Just tested it. It appears that the 3850 AGP will suffer the same fate as the 2600. I will be returning it to Newegg and upgrading my PC. This was their last chance!

 

[LordVampyre]

actually I would wait before returning the card... Sapphire hasnt updated their site yet and theyre usually a few days behind ATI's site... but if thats what you choose to do it.. oh well...

I found a 8.3 on guru3d.com last night via their forum (I think) that are vista drivers and worked just fine. So, I have my vista on 8.3 and xp on the current Sapphire drivers. Everything works fine so.. Im still a happy camper.

 

[Ziontrain]

8.3 does NOT work with the Sapphire HD 3850. Just tested it. It appears that the 3850 AGP will suffer the same fate as the 2600. I will be returning it to Newegg and upgrading my PC. This was their last chance!

Ouch. I feel bad for everyone who got this, if this is true.

 

[AndonSage]

8.3 does NOT work with the Sapphire HD 3850. Just tested it. It appears that the 3850 AGP will suffer the same fate as the 2600. I will be returning it to Newegg and upgrading my PC. This was their last chance!

I'm using the drivers that came on the CD with the Sapphire card, and I'm not having any problems, so it doesn't matter so much that the 8.3 drivers don't work. I'll just see if Sapphire comes out with their own version of 8.3. I need Windows XP, not Vista, drivers, and apparently the guru3d ones are Vista only?

 

[LordVampyre]

Correct AndonSage, I didnt go back to recheck but as of last night they were vista only.

These drivers work great.. Im using the ones from sapphire's website.. no issues.. for XP that is.

about the only negative thing going on is a heat issue.. why they have the hot air blowing back into the case is beyond me... so, Im looking for a new case with some major cooling

any ideas on a case.. no side window .. (never saw a reason for them) that has over the top cooling?

any help would be most appreciated.

 

[AndonSage]

These drivers work great.. Im using the ones from sapphire's website.. no issues.. for XP that is.

I thought the drivers posted on Sapphire's web site were the same ones on the CD. Is that not the case?

about the only negative thing going on is a heat issue.. why they have the hot air blowing back into the case is beyond me... so, Im looking for a new case with some major cooling

The highest temp I've seen my card get is 54C while playing Vanguard. But then again, I don't play FPS's.

any ideas on a case.. no side window .. (never saw a reason for them) that has over the top cooling?

I really like the Antec Performance One P182 Mid Tower case. It's a really nice case (watch the video at that link for a demo of the case), and has spots for five 120mm fans. It's also not an outrageous price.

From the above link:

Cooling System:
- 1 rear 120mm TriCool™ Fan (standard)
- 1 top 120mm TriCool™ fan (standard)
- 1 lower chamber 120mm TriCool™ Fan (standard)
- 1 front 120mm fan (optional)
- 1 middle 120mm fan (optional) to cool the VGA
External fan control on the rear panel for the top and rear fans in the upper chamber

The optional middle fan takes up a couple of hard drive bays, but with four HDD bays remaining after that, there are still plenty.

 

[NEVERLIFT]

Well been using my 3850 now for 3days and so far so good.
Want to share my experience with the games I been playing.

The card does seem to run alittle warm and I have seen it in the high 60c when alt-tab out my more demanding games with CCC already open so I can see it real quick.


All games played at 1280x1024 resolution with max ingame detail settings unless otherwise noted.

HL2 games like Episode 1&2, Lost Coast avg 90fps
2xAA/16xAF

Bioshock avg 50fps

Crysis 25fps avg in most areas and in the high 30's at times with lows being in the high teens
medium settings except shader set to high,
custom shader config file used that enables dx10 effects in dx9

COD4 avg 50fps
2xAA

UT3 avg 35fps with fps over 50 or in the 40's alot the time

Quake4 avg 60fps (think vsync was on even thou set to off)
2xAA w/ Ultra High settings

STALKER avg 50fps

Frontlines Fuel of War avg 45fps

Gears of War avg 45fps


The only game that seem to not run as well as I would like was Crysis, and I feel that a patch and better drivers from AMD/ATi would help this alot.

 

[NEVERLIFT]

8.3 does NOT work with the Sapphire HD 3850. Just tested it. It appears that the 3850 AGP will suffer the same fate as the 2600. I will be returning it to Newegg and upgrading my PC. This was their last chance!

Same here guy.

Tried to install them normal and then forced and no luck.

AMD/ATi really should get this fixed.

 

[pimpdad82]

Unfortunately ATI/AMD has made it very clear that they will not support the AGP version of this card. It is only up to Sapphire to hack the ATI driver to make it work which unfortunately makes games crash with my card. ATI should not let vendors support AGP if ATI can't support it as well. I've yet to see such a move by Nvidia. I'm very disappointed.

 

[AndonSage]

Unfortunately ATI/AMD has made it very clear that they will not support the AGP version of this card. It is only up to Sapphire to hack the ATI driver to make it work which unfortunately makes games crash with my card. ATI should not let vendors support AGP if ATI can't support it as well. I've yet to see such a move by Nvidia. I'm very disappointed.

I could understand ATI not supporting AGP if they weren't making AGP cards any more, but since ATI is the one that came out with HD 3850 AGP for their vendors to make, they really should support it!

 

[LordVampyre]

AndonSage,
Thank you very much for the information.

Think theyre different.. but Ive been known to be wrong.. Just as long as they work. IF I remember right some of the ini files were different versions/numbers...

Problem isnt with the video card getting hot.. its with the case being hot.. 2 120's (1 in 1 out) and according to Everest My mobo is 99F, cpu 120f, seagates are 97f each.. Think thats just a bit hotter than Id like. Im sure having the heater on isnt helping either.

Nice case... think Id have to get another power supply cause my hiper's cables wont reach with PS on the bottom.. at least thats what they say.. think Ill contact Antec and see what they say.

again thank you for the information

 

[AndonSage]

AndonSage, Thank you very much for the information. Think theyre different.. but Ive been known to be wrong.. Just as long as they work. IF I remember right some of the ini files were different versions/numbers...

Thank you I think I'll wait to see if Sapphire releases drivers based on the 8.3 driver. No reason to change now and have to change again in two weeks.

again thank you for the information

Good luck with any rebuild!

 

[jonneymendoza]

Well been using my 3850 now for 3days and so far so good.
Want to share my experience with the games I been playing.

The card does seem to run alittle warm and I have seen it in the high 60c when alt-tab out my more demanding games with CCC already open so I can see it real quick.


All games played at 1280x1024 resolution with max ingame detail settings unless otherwise noted.

HL2 games like Episode 1&2, Lost Coast avg 90fps
2xAA/16xAF

Bioshock avg 50fps

Crysis 25fps avg in most areas and in the high 30's at times with lows being in the high teens
medium settings except shader set to high,
custom shader config file used that enables dx10 effects in dx9

COD4 avg 50fps
2xAA

UT3 avg 35fps with fps over 50 or in the 40's alot the time

Quake4 avg 60fps (think vsync was on even thou set to off)
2xAA w/ Ultra High settings

STALKER avg 50fps

Frontlines Fuel of War avg 45fps

Gears of War avg 45fps


The only game that seem to not run as well as I would like was Crysis, and I feel that a patch and better drivers from AMD/ATi would help this alot.

what cpu do u have?

 

[LordVampyre]

I got my case ordered tonight... should make things much cooler... at least Im hoping so... and you gotta love free shipping on a case!

 

[jonneymendoza]

what case are u getting? how much booost would i get from a 7800 gainward bliss ?

 

[Sheldog23]

Has anyone checked to see if any other vendors other than Sapphire are providing AGP drivers? I wonder if they might have an updated driver that could work for the cards. I mean the are all pretty much the same right?

The one off the CD is working fine for me right now. However I would like to have updates to tweak performance and help stability and whatnot. It would sadden me if ATI didn't support the card.

I've read around on other forums and most have said you can get the new drivers to work by editing the install files like so

You can make the 8.3 setup work if you edit the files...
run the install
go to C:\ATI\support\8-3_xp32_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_59746\Driver\Driver\

CX_59746.INI
,0x9505:0x30001002,
to
,0x9505:0x30001002,0x9515:0x00281787,

INSTALL.INI
,0x9505:0x25421002,
to
,0x9505:0x25421002,0x9515:0x00281787,

Driver.Dat
,9505,
to
,9505,9515,

go to C:\ATI\support\8-3_xp32_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_59746\Driver\Driver\XP_INF

CX_59746.inf
find "ATI Radeon HD 3850" and add...
"ATI Radeon HD 3850 AGP" = ati2mtag_RV630, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9515&SUBSYS_00281787

run C:\Drivers\8-3_xp32_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_59746\Driver\Setup.exe


8.3 contains 14 other files that have a reference to 9515
8.2 contained 13 other files that have a reference to 9515
extra one is
C:\ATI\support\8-3_xp32_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_59746\Driver\BIN\chipset.msi

so they added support for AMD chipsets probably, maybe, just a guess

p.s. check the number 00281787 exists in your device manager b4 you do it and use the number in there instead if it is different.

I don't know if I'm brave enough to try it and I wouldn't necessarily recommend it either. But maybe someone here is braver than I.

 

[NEVERLIFT]

what cpu do u have?

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032161907&postcount=124

 

[jonneymendoza]

umm ok im gunna download this 3dmark thingy and test my scores on my current rig and i will post later or tomorrow and see what u guys think of my score and how much this card would benefit me

 

[NEVERLIFT]

umm ok im gunna download this 3dmark thingy and test my scores on my current rig and i will post later or tomorrow and see what u guys think of my score and how much this card would benefit me

I did a small o/c last night after using the card for 3days now and while my 3DMark06 score went up almost 150 points, my games gained around 3-5% more fps.

I did not push the o/c... I dont feel the stock cooler is up for cooling this beast.

 

[NEVERLIFT]

For everyone who has tried the 8.3 Cats and saw they would not install... I called AMD/ATi this morning and talked with a senior tech about it, and he told me a hotfix was coming.

Here's my initial post about it.
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032171327&postcount=40

 

[AndonSage]

For everyone who has tried the 8.3 Cats and saw they would not install... I called AMD/ATi this morning and talked with a senior tech about it, and he told me a hotfix was coming.

Excellent I wrote down that phone number you provided and will call them tomorrow (it's too late tonight) and prod them some, hehe. I would really like the new drivers for the 'maintain aspect ratio.'

 

[driftwood]

I tried changing the 4 files in the 8.3 package earlier and Setup still said it couldn't find a valid driver for my hardware/OS. Has anyone gotten this to work on XP-64?

Note - I did change the id in CA_59747.inf to what's in device manager (0028174B for me).

 

[jonneymendoza]

Right im back and i have tried running 3dmark and here is my result:

3505 3DMarks.

my hardware is 7800 gainward bliss, p4 3.2ghz with 2gb ddr

im guessing that this card will prove little difference and its time for me to say bye bye to agp

 

[LordVampyre]

driftwood... over on guru3d.com in the ATI section in the thread talking about Powercolor AGP HD 3850 on right about the last page a person named Artic89 has a step by step operation on how to get this card work with the 8.3 without editing anything. It works perfectly. I now have both XP and Vista using the 8.3 and theres quite a bit difference in this driver. Im guessing and saying how this done is the same in 32bit as in 64 bit at least I hope so.

Thought youd like to know.
I would put a link but not sure if thats allowed by either board. So, rather be safe than making one or even 2 boards mad

 

[NEVERLIFT]

driftwood... over on guru3d.com in the ATI section in the thread talking about Powercolor AGP HD 3850 on right about the last page a person named Artic89 has a step by step operation on how to get this card work with the 8.3 without editing anything. It works perfectly. I now have both XP and Vista using the 8.3 and theres quite a bit difference in this driver. Im guessing and saying how this done is the same in 32bit as in 64 bit at least I hope so.

Thought youd like to know.
I would put a link but not sure if thats allowed by either board. So, rather be safe than making one or even 2 boards mad

I just tried this and it worked.

Thanks

 

[LordVampyre]

Most welcome NeverList ..... at least we have something to hold us over now!

 

[pimpdad82]

Here's the post:

Windows XP 32bit
A. Install Drivers
1. Get official driver only cat 8.3 here.
2. Run it so that it extracts to where ever you want but when the next screen pops up click cancel.
3. Goto device manager > graphics adapter > update drivers...
a. Click no i'll update and find it myself for the next screens then click install from specific location.
4. Browse to X:\ATI\SUPPORT\8-3_xp32_dd_59746\XP_INF\CX_59746.inf
5. Scroll down a little till you find "ATI Radeon HD 3850" click next and YES.
6. Reboot

B. Install ATI CCC (Optional)
1. Need to install driver first see above.
2. Get official CCC 8.3 only here
3. Run it and install as usual.
4. Reboot

Now you have the latest drivers and working CCC for your 3850 agp.
Some might say as it doesn't list as AGP it will not work but i have the card and everything works fine, including overdrive!
Screenies





I have tried the above for vista but it will not install CCC. If you only want the drivers though use the above method A.

Windows Vista 32bit
1. Need to install 3850 agp sapphire drivers first. Get them here for XP and Vista.
2. Once they are installed CCC should be working in Vista on the next reboot.
3. Get vista driver only cat 8.3 here
4. Run it so that it extracts to where ever you want but when the next screen pops up click cancel.
5. Update the drivers manually by going to device manager > graphics adapter > update drivers...
6. Click no i'll update and find it myself for the next screens then click install from specific location.
7. Browse to X:\ATI\SUPPORT\8-3_vista32_dd_59752\Packages\Drivers\Display\LH_INF \CL_59752.inf
8. Scroll down a little till you find "ATI Radeon HD 3850" click next and YES.
9. Reboot

Now you have latest drivers for vista and working CCC!
Screenies





Oh and yes DX10 works with games like Bioshock and Crysis that supports it!
I get around 45+ fps with DX10 surface details with Bioshock, in crysis with everything set to very high no AA i get 5-25fps, both games @ 1280x1024.

edit:
I dont have 64bit versions of xp/vista so i cant say for sure if it works but the way to install it is pretty much the same just remember to get the correct driver/ccc links.

For the vista with ccc, those are sapphire drivers so if you have a powercolor agp card just get the latest from there site and update to 8.3 using instructions above. You could just use the sapphire drivers on the powercolor card but it may not work.

 

[AndonSage]

I now have both XP and Vista using the 8.3 and theres quite a bit difference in this driver.

Did you uninstall the previous drivers and clean before installing using the instructions that Arctic89 posted? Those instructions don't say whether you need to do that or not.

 

[Ejay]

Did you uninstall the previous drivers and clean before installing using the instructions that Arctic89 posted? Those instructions don't say whether you need to do that or not.

This approach/technique does work. I had installed the XP Sapphire driver set and CCC previously. I uninstalled the Sapphire CCC but kept the driver. I then followed the directions posted by pimpdad82, just updating the drivers under Hardware/Device Manager/Display Adapter/Update. After rebooting, I then upgraded to Cat 8.3. Voila! It works! Now I have access to the 1440 x 900 resolution that was missing in the Sapphire drivers and CCC with my Samsung SyncMaster 223BW. And CCC 8.3 correctly identifies my card as AGP! Furthermore, it passes all tests under dxdiag!

 

[LordVampyre]

I didnt. and with the vista ones you have to have the drivers installed. so think its alright to install over them.

so far no issues and Ive been gaming a great deal .. last night while digging though the closet, I found a copy of Raven shield 3 that I didnt even know I had. Looks great runs even better. Its interesting seeing these older games with this card.