The [H] Retrocomputing Thread!

Compaq Deskpro 8086 (1984) - The original 100% IBM-compatible PC Clone

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Now here is an interesting unit recently discovered... an original Compaq Deskpro 8086 from 1984!
This was *the* very first system, along with the original Compaq Portable, to be 100% IBM-compatible.

Of course other systems had x86 processors such as the 8088 and 8086 back in the 1980s, along with an 8-bit ISA bus, but many of them were only up to 95% code-compatible.
This meant that the code either had to be patched to run on the non-compatible system, or a specific vendor-version of the software needed to be released.

This was not the case with the Compaq Deskpro, though!
This unit is running with the following hardware specifications:

- AMD 8086-2 16-bit CPU @ 4.77MHz (the original CPU of which the x86 instruction set architecture was based on, from 1978 - second-sourced AMD model rated for 8MHz)
- Intel 8087 16-bit FPU @ 4.77MHz ~ 50 KFLOPS computational processing capability
- 640KB of DRAM (20-bit address bus - lower 640KB used for system memory - upper 384KB reserved for hardware)
- ISA Compaq CGA Video Processor w/ 16KB VRAM
- ISA 3COM 3C503 10BASE-T/10BASE-5 NIC from 1989 (the very first 3COM NIC to feature a built-in Ethernet transceiver)
- ISA XTIDE Compact Flash card w/ 2GB CF Card
- ISA FDD Controller w/ twin 1.2MB 5.25" FDDs
- ISA ST-412 HDD Controller w/ twin Seagate ST-225 20MB MFM HDDs
- ISA Serial/Parallel Clock I/O Card
- MAGNAVOX Computer Monitor 80 composite amber monochromatic monitor from 1989
- 65 watt AT-compatible PSU

UPDATE:
- AMD 8086-2 16-bit CPU was removed
- NEC V30 16-bit CPU @ 4.77MHz - 8086-compatible CPU with 8080 ISA compatibility and an 18% performance boost clock-for-clock compared to the the 8086

With the NEC V30, the disk transfer speeds are now around 160KB/s, and FTP transfers are up from 35KB/s to 38KB/s; a modest improvement for a simple drop-in CPU upgrade.

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Well now, I'm surprised to see everything this system from 1984 is capable of running!
The system is currently running either MS-DOS 6.22 as the main OS, FreeDOS 8088/8086 for newer software compatibility, and MINIX 2.0.2 for UNIX kernel and application testing and compiling.

I have setup this system with some of the mTCP networking software (special thanks to Michael Brutman) and have this system acting as a full-fledged FTP server.
With the 8086 CPU @ 4.77MHz and 3COM 10BASE-T NIC, it is capable of 35KB/s upload and 25KB/s download.

It may be possible to improve the speed by upgrading the CPU to an NEC V30 or V33, which are essentially 3rd party x86 CPUs capable of the Intel 8080 ISA or 80286 performance-per-clock, respectively.
Both have a nice processing capability boost, which should result in higher transfer speeds; an 80286 or 80386 CPU accelerator board is also possible, which would improve the CPU processing capability by 30% to 100%.

While this unit does not have a soundcard, it is still capable of playing games on this luxurious amber monochromatic composite MAGNAVOX Monitor 80 from 1989.
Even Freddy Krueger enjoys playing a game or two!

The benchmark program is CheckIt, and is freely available for download online.
Disk speed with the 20MB MFM HDDs is around 50KB/s, but the 2GB Compact Flash card caps out around 150KB/s; a worthy improvement for such a venerable system.

The Intel 8087 FPU @ 4.77MHz has around 50 KFLOPS of computing capability.
While this may not sound like much by today's standards, considering a NVIDIA GTX1080 has SP FP32 computational processing capabilities of over 10 TFLOPS, back in the 1980s, a FPU in such a small system was invaluable for scientists, developers, and statistics computation.

Microsoft QuickBASIC 4.5 can take full advantage of the FPU when designing 3D graphics and animation.
Computation takes around 30 seconds with only the CPU and software libraries, whereas with the FPU included, computation takes only around 9 seconds.

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Now, the 8086 is a very interesting CPU, and unlike its 8088 brother CPU, this one has the full 16-bit data-bus!
Both are 16-bit CPUs, but the 8088 only had an 8-bit data bus, resulting in half the performance at the cost of compatibility with 8-bit ICs back in the day.

This is the same reason the 80386DX was such an advantage over the 80386SX as well, as the SX only had a 16-bit data bus, compared to the DX's full 32-bit data bus.
The 88 and SX models were kind of the "Celeron" processors of their time, being low-cost but still keeping the compatibility of the full processors.

Similarly, the Pentium Overdrive was also a real Pentium, but the data bus on it was only 32-bit, compared to the 64-bit data bus of the native Pentium.
This was done in order to fit the 32-bit data bus of the 80486, but because of this, it took two clock cycles to do what the native Pentium could do in one clock cycle due to half the data bus.

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I do have a few upgrades possibly planned for this system, however.
Included in those upgrades will be the NEC V30 CPU, which is now done, and if I can find it, the extremely rare and elusive NEC V33 CPU.

The NEC V30 was an 8086-compatible CPU with 8080 ISA compatibility, but the V33 was an 8086-compatible CPU with 80286 performance-per-clock, had 80186 ISA compatibility, and was about three times faster clock-for-clock over the stock 8086.
The NEC V20, on the other hand, was an 8088-compatible CPU which gave an automatic 10% performance boost over the 8088 clock-for-clock, and had 8080 ISA compatibility as well built in; it was a nice drop-in upgrade for systems back then.

There was also an NEC V33A which was an 80286 ISA compatible processor with protected memory mode as an alternative, and those can be found pretty easily on Yahoo Japan Auctions (or a proxy like buyee.jp), but these are only for systems with an 80286 present.

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Stay retro! :cool:
 
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X68000 - NetBSD Update for 2017



This is a topic which I have been working on for a while now, but haven't forgotten about!
Well, this is pretty exciting, actually.

Quite a bit has changed in the past few months, and not only has my original Sharp X68000 Expert-HD been upgraded with the Xpander-IV, but another gray Sharp X68000 Pro from 1989 has also been acquired and fully upgraded!
The Expert-HD is currently running NetBSD 7.0 on a 6GB MicroDrive with the AztecMonster SCSI adapter (shown in middle panel), and can be seen using a Centronics 50-pin to HD-50 adapter cable, and a HD-50 to 50-pin SCSI cable, which is being utilized by the SCSI-1 expansion card in the back of the unit (shown in right panel).

The system is currently compiling programs for m68k on NetBSD, and I hope to turn it into a local file-sharing server soon, utilizing the Neptune-X 10BASE-T NIC, shown sticking out of the back in the right panel (it's huge!).
The gray X68000 PRO, sandwiched between the Sun SPARCstation 5 and the X68000 Expert-HD, has been upgraded with the KGB-PRK RAM+FPU 68882 16MHz Expansion Board with 2MB FPM DRAM expansion card (3MB total RAM), Sharp CZ-6BM1 - MIDI interface card, and is using the Mercury Unit V.3 44.1KHz 8-channel ADPCM audio expander card for full YM2151 FM + ADPCM8; this pushes the Motorola 68000 10MHz CPU to the limit!

This PRO system will be used for music recording with X68000 games and custom music from the 1980s and 1990s.
ISO-9000, the giant isopod plush, is also chilling out and loving the new setup, heh.

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As for the black X68000 Expert-HD running NetBSD 7.0, I might also decide to turn it into an Apache web server, too, but the main limitation is the lack of RAM.

Even though the Motorola 68030 has a 32-bit address bus itself, using the Xellent30 CPU accelerator means that it is still utilizing the 24-bit address bus of the 68000 CPU, which limits it to a total of 16MB of address space.
The maximum RAM the pre-X68030 units can have is 12MB, mainly because any other components, such as the VRAM, will use beyond the lower 12MB RAM, but won't go beyond 16MB in total, since the upper 4MB itself is reserved for hardware.

So basically, everything is being loaded into SWAP, which isn't too quick, even when using a CF card instead of a MicroDrive, since the SCSI-1 bus speed limit is 5MB/s.



Upon booting into NetBSD from the X68000 (pre-X68000 XVI units), they must be first loaded with the custom firmware in the SRAM, Xellent30+SxSI+Omake driver.
Once this is done, a SCSI disk drive (HDD or AztecMonster with compact flash or microdrive) can be booted with the SCSI-1 expansion card.

The Xellent30 68030 CPU accelerator card must have the two left jumper switches in the "up" position upon bootup using a NetBSD boot diskette.
After the diskette boots into the bootloader, run the command: boot sd1a:netbsd

"sd1a" can have the number replaced by the SCSI disk's assigned number from 0 to 7; I had my disk on the assigned number 1, hence sd1a being used.
Press "Enter" on the keyboard, and once the OS starts to load in the bootloader, move the two left jumper switches to the "down" position.

This will allow the custom Omake firmware drivers to be loaded properly into memory and will allow NetBSD to properly boot.
If this isn't done, NetBSD will only partially boot, and will halt at the initial hardware detection screen.

These steps are critical in getting NetBSD to boot properly on this system, but things are much easier running from there!
If you look closely, the gold chip is the 68030 CPU, the large vertical chip right below it is the original 68000 CPU, and the square chip in the middle-right is the 68882 FPU.

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I haven't really had the chance to showcase the X68000 Expert-HD running NetBSD until now.
The top amber LCD monitor is the display which shows NetBSD on the unit, currently in the middle of compiling irssi, and all needed prerequisites, from source.

The bottom green monochrome monitor is currently running off of an x86 server running a few VMs headless, just for fun!

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Stay retro! :cool:
 
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Compaq Deskpro 8086 (1984) - Network Configuration How-To

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Most everyone here under the age of 35 may not know or remember, but for those of you who do, Plug-and-Play (PnP) peripherals, which we all use today, and have for the last 30 years, were a thing of the future back in the early 1980s.
On very early 16-bit ISA and nearly all 8-bit ISA based-systems, PnP devices normally won't work; these devices have to have four things set manually, normally via jumpers on the motherboard, the devices themselves, or in the software driver:

- Reserved memory location for the device in the upper 384KB of address space - 8KB reserved at D8000 or C8000 for the NIC (hardware jumper).
- I/O memory port for general device communication - normally set at 300 or 310 for the NIC (0x310).
- The Interrupt Request Lines (IRQ) - normally set at 2 or 3 for the NIC (0x2).
- The Interrupt Request Vector - must be manually set in the OS's AUTOEXEC.BAT file for launch at bootup (0x60).

Running the Memory Mapping test in the CheckIt benchmark software for MS-DOS is a great way to tell where the NIC is physically located in the upper address space.

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A packet driver will also be needed, and the driver must work for the 8086/8088 x86 ISA, as some of the newer NICs will have newer drivers compiled for the Intel 80186 or 80286 CPUs and later, and will not work with the 8086 or 8088.
Most of the NIC drivers, which are normally *.COM files can be found here: http://www.crynwr.com/drivers/

The 8086/8088 driver for this 3COM 3C503 10BASE-T/10BASE-5 NIC can be found here: http://www.crynwr.com/drivers/many-other-drivers.zip

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The AUTOEXEC.BAT file itself is normally located in the root directory of any DOS-based OS.
The line in the file should look like:

loadhigh C:\DRIVER\8086\3C503.COM -p 0x60 0x2 0x310
(the file will need to be in either that directory, or referenced in the directory of your choosing, but the file must be physically located there)

Once the packet driver is loaded, the NIC will be initialized; when it is, the MAC address will show correctly.
The next step will be setting up the unit to get an IP address from the DHCP server; remember, this all has to be manually invoked, either via the AUTOEXEC.BAT file or via command line - if you wanted automated, you need to do it yourself on these older systems!

There is a great, and free, software suite available for just what is needed - mTCP for DOS, which can be found here: http://www.brutman.com/mTCP/mTCP.html
The manual for all of this software can be found here: http://www.brutman.com/mTCP/mTCP_2015-07-05.pdf

Many of the tools in this suite are just what we are looking for, and they will all work on the 8086 and 8088 CPUs.
Save these files in a folder called "mTCP" in your root directory.

The program we are looking for is DHCP.exe, which will make an address request to the DHCP server on your LAN.
However, another line will be needed in the AUTOEXEC.BAT file, which references the configuration file in which the settings will be made and saved from the mTCP software:

set MTCPCFG=C:\mTCP\TCP.CFG
(make sure the TCP.CFG file is located at this location - one might need to be made [blank file] if it isn't already there)

Once this is done, you can run the DHCP.exe file from command line and the request for the IP address can be made.
If successful, your system should be able to communicate with everything on your network and the Internet!

Here is what my AUTOEXEC.BAT file looks like, for reference:
[@]echo off
loadhigh C:\DRIVER\8086\3C503.COM -p 0x60 0x2 0x310
set MTCPCFG=C:\mTCP\TCP.CFG
set TZ=UTC+7
C:\mTCP\dhcp.exe
C:\mTCP\sntp.exe -retries 3 -set pool.ntp.org
C:\mTCP\dhcp.exe

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As for the FTP server software I am running, it too is also in the mTCP programs, and is called FTPSRV.exe.
The TCP.CFG file will need to reference yet another file in order for this software to run, but all of this is covered in the mTCP documentation in the link listed above.

Average transfer speeds were around 35KB/s upload and 25KB/s download from the server itself.
This is really a limitation of the CPU, as an Intel 80386DX @ 16MHz can get over 200KB/s and a Motorola 68000 @ 10MHz will get over 60KB/s with the same or similar-era NIC.

I do have to say it was quite the sight to see files tranferred from a Deskpro from 1984 onto an iPhone from 2015.

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Here are some additional helpful links to getting things configured:
MS-DOS Network Configuration
MS-DOS NIC Packet Drivers
IBM 5150 with 3C503 NIC
mTCP Software Suite
SSH2DOS SSH and SCP Software for DOS
Wireless Networking for Classic Machines with a Wi-Fi AP

Special thanks to Michael Brutman for laying the groundwork for all of this.
Good luck to you all, and stay retro! :cool:
 
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Compaq Portable II (1986)

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This unique unit was given to me back when I was in high school circa 2003, but finally got around restoring it in 2017!
This is an original Compaq Portable II 80286 from February 1986!

This was the second portable system designed by Compaq, after the original Compaq Portable, which is still 100% IBM-compatible.


This unit is running with the following hardware specifications:

- Intel 80286 16-bit CPU @ 8MHz (released circa 1982)
- Intel 80287 16-bit FPU @ 8MHz ~ 190 KFLOPS computational processing capability
- 640KB of DRAM (24-bit address bus - lower 640KB used for system memory & upper 384KB reserved for hardware in Real Mode - capable of Protected Mode up to 4.2MB in this unit)
- ISA 16-bit Compaq CGA Video Processor w/ 16KB VRAM
- ISA 8-bit 3COM 3C503 10BASE-T/10BASE-5 NIC from 1989 (gets about ~160KB/s with the FTP program listed above - quite a boost over the Compaq Desktop 8086/V30)
- ISA 16-bit Winchester IDE Controller with 4GB Industrial DOM SLC SSD (~3.2MB/s on IDE bus)
- ISA 16-bit FDD Controller w/ single low-density 360KB 5.25" FDD
- ISA 16-bit Serial/Parallel I/O Card
- Type-1 MiniScribe MFM-to-IDE 10MB 3.5" HDD
- Integrated CRT Computer Monitor 80 composite green monochromatic monitor
- 65 watt AT-compatible integrated PSU
- MS-DOS 6.22& BIOS Setup Diskette


I have to say that this is a really fun system to work with, and has quite a solid design despite it's advanced age (31 years as of 2017!).
A word of warning with the XTIDE 8-bit ISA IDE/ATA/PATA adapter, this system refused to make it past the XTIDE firmware screen, so use with caution!

The XTIDE adapter works great on nearly every other system I've set it up with, so I'm thinking that it isn't the XTIDE itself as much as it is the BIOS disk controller detection hanging up on it with the Portable II itself.
DOM IDE/PATA SSDs and compact flash adapters work great with the original controller, though, and despite the height of the Winchester IDE controller card, a short DOM SSD can fit within the enclosure comfortably without touching the outer shell after installation.

If the Tadiran TL-5104 3.6v BIOS backup battery is dead, they can be found easily on Amazon.
The one in my unit was from 1989, but must have died long ago; the battery replacement took about 10 minutes in total.

Also, the original OS to be released with this unit was MS-DOS 3.1, but it is possible to boot it with MS-DOS 6.XX as well with full functionality.
I have not tried FreeDOS, but if it can be ported to 360KB low-density 5.25" diskettes, then I would imagine it would work, too.


Some great setup guides for this unit can be found here:
Booting the Compaq Portable II
Restoring a 1987 Compaq Portable II
InfoWorld Magazine - April 21, 1986
MS-DOS Screensavers (eye.exe - left picture above)


Stay retro! :cool:
 
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Yeah, I'm mad envious the moment I saw that you had an X68000 in your fleet. Those things are dream machines for my eventual retrocomputing collection, even moreso than an Amiga A1200 or A4000, but perhaps not as much as an SGI workstation with N64 devkit hardware or something similar.

The Quadra 950 also would fit into a nice gap that's between my IIcx (16 MHz 68030, and I can't get this board to see more than 4 MB of RAM for whatever reason because my extra SIMMs just give me Chimes of Death) and my Power Mac 6500/250. Heck, the Quadra might be able to run Wolfenstein 3D without dropping a frame for all I know; the IIcx is largely out of the question for games like that.

Also, you got a Roland CM-500 in box alongside the X68000? I'm not sure I want to think about how much you must've paid for that. CM-500s are pretty much end game for anyone who needs an MT-32 deriative for DOS games and such.
 
NamelessPFG said:
Yeah, I'm mad envious the moment I saw that you had an X68000 in your fleet. Those things are dream machines for my eventual retrocomputing collection, even moreso than an Amiga A1200 or A4000, but perhaps not as much as an SGI workstation with N64 devkit hardware or something similar.
Click to expand...
They are absolutely worth getting for the near arcade-perfect ports of the late 1980s and early 1990s, and the music is amazing, not even counting the MIDI capabilities.
Oh, an Amiga A4000 tower would be awesome, and while they are normally lower-cost than most X68000 units, they are much harder to find, that's for sure!

Heh, I've always wanted one of the SGI Crimson "Jurassic Classic" units, but those are about as rare as the holy grail these days, but I hear you on that.
One with an N64 devkit installed would be an amazingly rare find.

The Quadra 950 also would fit into a nice gap that's between my IIcx (16 MHz 68030, and I can't get this board to see more than 4 MB of RAM for whatever reason because my extra SIMMs just give me Chimes of Death) and my Power Mac 6500/250. Heck, the Quadra might be able to run Wolfenstein 3D without dropping a frame for all I know; the IIcx is largely out of the question for games like that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the Quadra 950 will play DOOM with a 68LC040 (no FPU), 68040, or PowerPC 601/603 variants, all very well, so I would imagine Wolfenstein 3D would run no problem on anything down to a 68030 or maybe even 68020 at 16MHz or higher, so your IIcx might be capable of running it!
Interesting, I do know that some of those earlier 68030 and 68040 board needed 4 pairs of matching FPM DRAM sticks; not sure if you have tried that or not, but it might be worth a shot - it also might help to put the memory controller in 32-bit mode instead of 24-bit mode so it can go beyond 16MB of RAM as well, but I'm not sure if that is part of the issue or not.

Also, you got a Roland CM-500 in box alongside the X68000? I'm not sure I want to think about how much you must've paid for that. CM-500s are pretty much end game for anyone who needs an MT-32 deriative for DOS games and such.
Click to expand...
You really don't want to know... :ROFLMAO:
It was absolutely worth it, though, especially for the FM+MIDI soundtracks (will get these recorded and uploaded soon), and for versions of tracks that even I've never heard before:



Just listen to that heartbeat at the beginning of the song... that's the CM-500 at work, and that won't ever be heard in the FM-only version!
If you do decide to shop around for one, I highly recommend buyee.jp (Yahoo Auctions) as a proxy, especially for the base X68000 unit and all other attachments and expansion boards; I wouldn't even try to order any X68000 equipment on eBay, as all of it it usually 4-10 times the price it normally is in Japan, even after shipping.

NFG Games is a great place for games, software, disk images, and hardware schematics as well - all free and easily available.
Hope you can get one soon, and if you do, please share it on here, I would really like to see it and any other equipment (like that IIcx) you have in action or on display! :cool:
 
Lovely thread! I have a bunch of old computers from the late 1980s all the way up to Pentiums at my parent's place. I'm slowly getting to them one by one, upgrading and restoring and putting them online. But the one piece that's been running strong the whole time is a fleet of IBM Model M keyboards that I've basically put on every system since I got them dirt cheap back in the day before anyone really cared about them.
 
SamirD said:
Lovely thread! I have a bunch of old computers from the late 1980s all the way up to Pentiums at my parent's place. I'm slowly getting to them one by one, upgrading and restoring and putting them online. But the one piece that's been running strong the whole time is a fleet of IBM Model M keyboards that I've basically put on every system since I got them dirt cheap back in the day before anyone really cared about them.
Click to expand...
That's awesome, and if you have pics or videos of them, please share!
Oh man, those keyboards are worth bank this day and age, and it's true, they lasted forever.

If only we had known what this stuff would have been worth, and how hard it would be to obtain such items in the future.
Hope to see some of your collection soon! :cool:
 
WhoBeDaPlaya said:
Was using this in my cube a few years back, until I pissed off everyone within a 3 cubicle radius :p
Click to expand...
haha, that's awesome!
Those keyboards were great, and if there was any noise, that just meant production at work. :D

Also, +1 to those wallpapers, the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. game series were so much fun; loved the iron sites and the environments.
That was a nice setup you had, would love to get one of those keyboards for my workplace,
 
Glad you liked it! I've since upped my game a notch since everyone and their grandma were getting 3 monitor setups :p

MBQdnUp.jpg
 
Red Falcon said:
That's awesome, and if you have pics or videos of them, please share!
Oh man, those keyboards are worth bank this day and age, and it's true, they lasted forever.
Click to expand...
No pics that are presentable so far, but I know I have at least the following systems:
  • IBM PS/2 30-286 upgraded to 4MB of RAM and a 486slc processor as well as a 240MB SCSI hard drive in addition to the stock 30MB
  • 2-3 IBM 300-something 486DX2-50 systems
  • 8 IBM Pentium Pro systems with original boxes and everything
  • 2 IBM Pentium Pro 200 Servers with full SCSI
  • IBM P60 server with full SCSI
  • Winbook 386SLC laptop--first PC with an integrated trackball like the Macbook
The Model M keyboard will still be going at the 50 year mark--and that will truly be amazing!
 
SamirD said:
No pics that are presentable so far, but I know I have at least the following systems:
  • IBM PS/2 30-286 upgraded to 4MB of RAM and a 486slc processor as well as a 240MB SCSI hard drive in addition to the stock 30MB
  • 2-3 IBM 300-something 486DX2-50 systems
  • 8 IBM Pentium Pro systems with original boxes and everything
  • 2 IBM Pentium Pro 200 Servers with full SCSI
  • IBM P60 server with full SCSI
  • Winbook 386SLC laptop--first PC with an integrated trackball like the Macbook
The Model M keyboard will still be going at the 50 year mark--and that will truly be amazing!
Click to expand...
Oh man, those systems are worth their weight in gold, especially the IBM PS/2 30-286 with the 486slc CPU upgrade.

Lazy Game Reviews has some great videos on these as well:




Weird to think that the Intel Core i processors are based on the Pentium III processor architecture, which in turn is based on the Pentium Pro processor architecture; you have the equipment where today's modern Intel x86_64 based systems all began! :cool:
That's a really nice collection, hope you share some pics or videos of your collections sometime soon. :)


WhoBeDaPlaya said:
Glad you liked it! I've since upped my game a notch since everyone and their grandma were getting 3 monitor setups :p
Click to expand...
That's awesome, would love to have more than three monitors for my job... guess I'm still in grandma's group. :D
 
Red Falcon said:
Oh man, those systems are worth their weight in gold, especially the IBM PS/2 30-286 with the 486slc CPU upgrade.

Weird to think that the Intel Core i processors are based on the Pentium III processor architecture, which in turn is based on the Pentium Pro processor architecture; you have the equipment where today's modern Intel x86_64 based systems all began! :cool:
That's a really nice collection, hope you share some pics or videos of your collections sometime soon. :)
Click to expand...
What's even better is that we bought several math coprocessors for the 30-286 as well as a 386sx upgrade along the way and still have those as well. We can revert the system back to bone stock or run it in its current form. Unfortunately, I'm sure the dallas rtc is dead and I know we have the set up disk, but I'm not sure where it is yet (lots more computers stuff to unpack from a big move 2 years ago).

It is interesting that the history goes back that far. The Pentium Pros are the most interesting as they were set up for 32-bit computing, so they would have been in their prime during the win2k years and can probably still run 2k. (They came with factory NT installations, which I still have along with the manuals.)

At some point I will end up liquidating a lot of the systems as the Pentium Pros were purchased for a project that never bore fruit and the IBM servers were actually leftovers from hotel property management system upgrades. They're fantastic systems in their own right with the unreal quality that IBM put in their hardware that made them the hardware of choice for many decades before Dell started to creep in on that market.

I even still have those two button mice in that ps/2 60 video.

Being a professional photographer, I feel I have to do the systems justice. Unfortunately, life for the last 5 years has made it so that I haven't even touched my 7 cameras moreless enjoyed my collection. :(
 
SamirD said:
What's even better is that we bought several math coprocessors for the 30-286 as well as a 386sx upgrade along the way and still have those as well. We can revert the system back to bone stock or run it in its current form. Unfortunately, I'm sure the dallas rtc is dead and I know we have the set up disk, but I'm not sure where it is yet (lots more computers stuff to unpack from a big move 2 years ago).

It is interesting that the history goes back that far. The Pentium Pros are the most interesting as they were set up for 32-bit computing, so they would have been in their prime during the win2k years and can probably still run 2k. (They came with factory NT installations, which I still have along with the manuals.)

At some point I will end up liquidating a lot of the systems as the Pentium Pros were purchased for a project that never bore fruit and the IBM servers were actually leftovers from hotel property management system upgrades. They're fantastic systems in their own right with the unreal quality that IBM put in their hardware that made them the hardware of choice for many decades before Dell started to creep in on that market.

I even still have those two button mice in that ps/2 60 video.

Being a professional photographer, I feel I have to do the systems justice. Unfortunately, life for the last 5 years has made it so that I haven't even touched my 7 cameras moreless enjoyed my collection. :(
Click to expand...
I would really like to see it all if you have time, but if not, no worries!
That was quite the haul from them, and it is so funny that 10+ years ago, this equipment wasn't worth that much, but now, drugs would be cheaper. :confused:

IBM did have amazing build quality, and even despite the advanced age of 1980s IBM equipment, almost all units, which were kept in a semi-normal (not too hot/cold/moist) location, are still working to this day, and may even outlast us!
It's funny you mention Windows 2000 Pro, as around 10 years ago, I actually had a HP NetServer with two Pentium Pro 200MHz (512KB L2 model) CPUs and 512MB ECC PC66 SDRAM, which all ran Windows 2000 Pro.

Those Pentium Pro-based systems were absolutely built for solid 32-bit computing of that era, and really were the beginning of making the x86 (i686 and beyond) ISA realistically competitive in the workstation and server markets, as compared to PowerPC, MIPS, PA-RISC, and SPARC. :cool:


WhoBeDaPlaya said:
Speaking of the Dallas RTC, I actually work at Dallas Semiconductor.
Well technically, it's called Maxim Integrated now :)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...60da15f01403b5c!8m2!3d32.9460085!4d-96.823649
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Oh wow, that actually sounds like a really cool place to work at, nice!
 
Red Falcon said:
I would really like to see it all if you have time, but if not, no worries!
That was quite the haul from them, and it is so funny that 10+ years ago, this equipment wasn't worth that much, but now, drugs would be cheaper. :confused:

IBM did have amazing build quality, and even despite the advanced age of 1980s IBM equipment, almost all units, which were kept in a semi-normal (not too hot/cold/moist) location, are still working to this day, and may even outlast us!
It's funny you mention Windows 2000 Pro, as around 10 years ago, I actually had a HP NetServer with two Pentium Pro 200MHz (512KB L2 model) CPUs and 512MB ECC PC66 SDRAM, which all ran Windows 2000 Pro.

Those Pentium Pro-based systems were absolutely built for solid 32-bit computing of that era, and really were the beginning of making the x86 (i686 and beyond) ISA realistically competitive in the workstation and server markets, as compared to PowerPC, MIPS, PA-RISC, and SPARC. :cool:
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I would too as it has been a few years. We had half of our computing gear at my parents house and another at a business. We sold the business in 2015, so we had to pack and move all the stuff to the house, so it's now all in one place, just so many boxes to put everything back together again. It's a little bit of a 'humpty-dumpty' game.

That's good to hear about the IBM gear as mine has basically been kept in decent environments except when the ac broke--then they were in 90F temps for a better part of a year. Considering they operate around those temps, I'm hoping it won't be an issue later when I try to get everything running again.

That HP system was a powerhouse! I hope you still have it! You could even run xp on that today. All of 8 IBM PPro systems are dual cpu capable--but finding the processor and voltage regulators is going to be tough today--especially since a lot of PPro processors are melted down for gold scrapping. :(
 
SamirD said:
I would too as it has been a few years. We had half of our computing gear at my parents house and another at a business. We sold the business in 2015, so we had to pack and move all the stuff to the house, so it's now all in one place, just so many boxes to put everything back together again. It's a little bit of a 'humpty-dumpty' game.

That's good to hear about the IBM gear as mine has basically been kept in decent environments except when the ac broke--then they were in 90F temps for a better part of a year. Considering they operate around those temps, I'm hoping it won't be an issue later when I try to get everything running again.
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Oh wow, that sounds like a lot of work to move all of that equipment around, and those systems aren't very light weight!
Yes, those systems were designed to withstand temps within that range, for sure, and as long as the hot areas were dry, they should be good to go.

Moisture is really what kills electronics and circuitry, even much more so than extreme hot or cold.
I had a few Osborne-1 systems arrive from ebay sellers a few years ago with extreme moisture damage, and no amount of cleaning or baking could ever bring those things back 100%, sadly.

That HP system was a powerhouse! I hope you still have it! You could even run xp on that today. All of 8 IBM PPro systems are dual cpu capable--but finding the processor and voltage regulators is going to be tough today--especially since a lot of PPro processors are melted down for gold scrapping. :(
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Unfortunately I don't, and I got rid of it back around 2008 or so... because I thought it was too "old" to be useful and wouldn't be worth much. :eek:
Ho boy, what was I thinking, and a working version of what I had goes for around $500-800 now, if it can be found; heh, hindsight is 20/20.

Oh yeah, those voltage regulators are tough to find, even for dual-CPU Netburst-based systems from the early 2000s, let alone those Pentium Pro systems.
However, scharfshutze009 is actually thinking of selling a dual-CPU Socket 8 Pentium II Overdrive system here, which also has the voltage regulators present for each socket; now those CPUs are rare!

Quite a few Pentium Pro CPUs can be found reasonably priced here as well.
Surprisingly, the black Pentium Pro CPUs are actually cheaper, despite having the top amount of L2 cache (1MB vs 256KB or 512KB on the standard gold CPUs), but they also don't have the high gold-scrap value, either.

For retro/legacy computing, the black Pentium Pros would probably be the most recommended if they can be afforded.
Socket 8 Pentium II CPUs are about as high-end as one can get for a Pentium Pro system, though, so that system above would be quite lucrative to a serious collector, so check it out if you have a chance! :)

The standard gold Pentium Pros have always been my favorites, though, and are quite a bit more physically robust than the black Pentium Pros, despite having less L2 cache.
 
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Red Falcon said:
Oh wow, that sounds like a lot of work to move all of that equipment around, and those systems aren't very light weight!
Yes, those systems were designed to withstand temps within that range, for sure, and as long as the hot areas were dry, they should be good to go.

Moisture is really what kills electronics and circuitry, even much more so than extreme hot or cold.
I had a few Osborne-1 systems arrive from ebay sellers a few years ago with extreme moisture damage, and no amount of cleaning or baking could ever bring those things back 100%, sadly.


Unfortunately I don't, and I got rid of it back around 2008 or so... because I thought it was too "old" to be useful and wouldn't be worth much. :eek:
Ho boy, what was I thinking, and a working version of what I had goes for around $500-800 now, if it can be found; heh, hindsight is 20/20.

Oh yeah, those voltage regulators are tough to find, even for dual-CPU Netburst-based systems from the early 2000s, let alone those Pentium Pro systems.
However, scharfshutze009 is actually thinking of selling a dual-CPU Socket 8 Pentium II Overdrive system here, which also has the voltage regulators present for each socket; now those CPUs are rare!

Quite a few Pentium Pro CPUs can be found reasonably priced here as well.
Surprisingly, the black Pentium Pro CPUs are actually cheaper, despite having the top amount of L2 cache (1MB vs 256KB or 512KB on the standard gold CPUs), but they also don't have the high gold-scrap value, either.

For retro/legacy computing, the black Pentium Pros would probably be the most recommended if they can be afforded.
Socket 8 Pentium II CPUs are about as high-end as one can get for a Pentium Pro system, though, so that system above would be quite lucrative to a serious collector, so check it out if you have a chance! :)

The standard gold Pentium Pros have always been my favorites, though, and are quite a bit more physically robust than the black Pentium Pros, despite having less L2 cache.
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It is going to be quite a bit of work, but that type of 'fun' work, you know? (y)

Humidity may have been high at times, but not high enough to cause any corrosion (hopefully).

Agh! That's awful. I hope it went to a good home vs being scrapped.

It's interesting that those 1MB PPros are cheaper, although looking at the price of the PPro in general, none of them are 'cheap'. :eek: I wonder if I just wanted to swap in a 1MB version for the 256k/512k if it would work. Or was there a different voltage regulator for it? It would be nice to set up one of the IBMs in a dual cpu setup though no operating system that could run decent on it could really take advantage of it.
 
I've noticed a lot more retro 'caches' like this showing up lately. Sadly, some the equipment that you can tell was originally probably working is now in bad shape. :(
 
SamirD said:
It is going to be quite a bit of work, but that type of 'fun' work, you know? (y)

Humidity may have been high at times, but not high enough to cause any corrosion (hopefully).

Agh! That's awful. I hope it went to a good home vs being scrapped.

It's interesting that those 1MB PPros are cheaper, although looking at the price of the PPro in general, none of them are 'cheap'. :eek: I wonder if I just wanted to swap in a 1MB version for the 256k/512k if it would work. Or was there a different voltage regulator for it? It would be nice to set up one of the IBMs in a dual cpu setup though no operating system that could run decent on it could really take advantage of it.
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It most definitely the "fun" kind of work, especially when the fruits of your labors pay off! :)
Yeah, hopefully those systems are still good to go for you, and they will be pretty exciting to see.

haha, it seems like any x86 equipment at the Intel Pentium III or AMD Athlon or lower tend to be anything but cheap, and the older or more obscure you get, the more expensive they get!
The 1MB should be compatible with normal Socket 8 systems, the same way the Pentium II Overdrive CPUs are.

Yes, over the years I've gotten rid of a lot of older equipment, software, consoles, games, etc., thinking that all of them weren't going to be worth anything (at the time, you couldn't pay someone to take any of it) and were too old to be useful, even just for fun.
Well, how wrong I was... :confused:

Oh well, I don't think any of us will be making that mistake again, heh.
Sure, if you set it up in a dual CPU configuration, most modern 32-bit i686-based software and operating systems will work perfectly with it, though I'm not sure what kind of performance you might get.

If you were to run anything like a modern (2010-present) BSD, GNU/Linux, or UNIX OS on it, I would recommend running them in run-level 3 (CLI-only), since most of the newer GUIs are quite the processor hogs for older equipment.
Back when I ran my dual Pentium Pro 200MHz system, Windows 2000 Pro and even many Steam games ran great on it at the time - this was using an AGP NVIDIA 7800GS 256MB GPU at the time with it just for fun (1996 meets 2006!).

SamirD said:
I've noticed a lot more retro 'caches' like this showing up lately. Sadly, some the equipment that you can tell was originally probably working is now in bad shape. :(
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This is true, and when I started working with and restoring "legacy equipment" back around 2012, I thought I was one of the few people in the world doing it and thought it was pretty unique, though something that I truly enjoyed.
I hadn't even heard the term "retro computing" until 2014, and that was the same year I started to see the prices of older hardware/software/consoles/games all go skyrocketing up in price.

Some of the equipment I purchased back then for what I thought was expensive at the time, I would now cry at if I had to buy it now.
My X68000 keyboard and mouse (both mint) when I purchased them in early 2014 were both $85 together, shipped.
Today, the mouse alone is going in both the US and Japan for over $200, just crazy! :eek:

Then there are guys like jpkiwigeek (great and really nice guy, btw) who just happen to either know people or companies who are getting rid of equipment, or happens to be in the right place at the right time.
Also, if you have a chance, I would highly recommend checking out his YouTube channel, he has quite a few amazing pieces of tech that he has either fully restored or is working on restoring in on-going projects:




Seriously, that guy has the king-cache of retro equipment, much of which we couldn't touch for under $30,000 to $100,000+ per piece, today, if we were trying to just flat out buy them. :greedy:
8-Bit Keys and The Obsolete Geek also have great collections as well, and cover the hardware in their videos in great detail - such nostalgia trips!

For retro console and games, MetalJesusRocks is definitely one of the best guys to follow, along with GameSack.
Good luck with your equipment, I look forward to hearing more from you when you have time! :cool:
 
Great to know those better CPUs will just 'drop in' and work. :)

The systems came with NT Workstation, and I can't recall if it was dual-cpu capable. And if not, I can always try win2k or worst case xp (which might run terrible due to the max ram and 'underpowered' cpus).

I actually took off NT and installed win95 as that was my main OS at the time and I knew it well enough to lock it down solid. I'm sure NT would work petty decently as well, especially since the malware to target the OS is almost as extinct as the OS itself.

I thought somewhat the same when I was asked what I was going to do with all the equipment I have. Then, I noticed more and more people doing the same. And now, it's a sub-genre in itself with conferences and conventions and lots of great people involved. I think that's the coolest part of it all--meeting like-minded people. That seems to be the point where I enjoy myself the most when immersed in any of my hobbies.

Those are some really awesome resources to check out when I have time. There's so many rabbit holes to dive into that I can completely lose track of time (even days!), so I try to avoid spending too much time in the fear I'll just want more.
 
SamirD said:
Great to know those better CPUs will just 'drop in' and work. :)

The systems came with NT Workstation, and I can't recall if it was dual-cpu capable. And if not, I can always try win2k or worst case xp (which might run terrible due to the max ram and 'underpowered' cpus).

I actually took off NT and installed win95 as that was my main OS at the time and I knew it well enough to lock it down solid. I'm sure NT would work petty decently as well, especially since the malware to target the OS is almost as extinct as the OS itself.

I thought somewhat the same when I was asked what I was going to do with all the equipment I have. Then, I noticed more and more people doing the same. And now, it's a sub-genre in itself with conferences and conventions and lots of great people involved. I think that's the coolest part of it all--meeting like-minded people. That seems to be the point where I enjoy myself the most when immersed in any of my hobbies.

Those are some really awesome resources to check out when I have time. There's so many rabbit holes to dive into that I can completely lose track of time (even days!), so I try to avoid spending too much time in the fear I'll just want more.
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If I were in your shoes, I would run Windows 2000 Pro over XP on such a system - even with enough RAM and GPU, the CPUs just aren't enough to run XP comfortably, even stripped down and optimized.
But, if you get it running with XP, mad props and I hope you enjoy!

Weird to think that XP is considered "retro" now, since it is beyond the 15-year limit of retro software; makes me feel so old. :eek:
Oh for sure, those Socket 8 systems were meant for NT 4.0, and would probably be a solid performer on it, if you want to make it software-hardware era-matched.

Definitely, there are tons of conventions all across the world now for such equipment and software.
I would really like to go to a few someday if the opportunity arose, and hopefully you will be able to hit a few of them up!

The people at those conventions all seem really friendly and very open to questions from what I've seen in videos and blogs, and some of them being far younger and older than us!
It's really cool when things like this bring people together. :)

Heh, I know what you mean, and I probably spend more time watching those channels trying to discover new things more often than finishing up existing projects!
Speaking of existing projects...
 
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Game Boy Horror

game_boy_horror___songpro_mp3___boom_box_boy_by_redfalcon696-dbxfxyy.png


Oh the horror! The Game Boy Horror!!
Here is a Nintendo Game Boy Horror (featured in the 2001 GameCube game, Luigi's Mansion, and powered a CPU based on the mighty 8-bit 1970s ZiLog Z80 @ 8MHz with 32KB RAM), along with a SongPro MP3 Player, and Boom Box Boy radio add-on - all from the late 1990s and early 2000s.

Yes, there was officially an actual 8-bit MP3 player for the Game Boy Color!
The variant featured here is the first 8-bit version, which is quite hard to find and is compatible with both the Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance.

The second 32-bit version, which is a bit more common, though still rare, is compatible only with the Game Boy Advance.
The second add-on featured here is the Boom Boy Box, which allows the Game Boy Color to operate as a very small FM radio.

Both the SongPro and Boom Box Boy provide audio-out on their own 3.5mm stereo audio ports.
The SongPro is also compatible with all bit-rate variants of MP3 audio files, and has a maximum storage compatibility of 512MB across two 256MB SD cards, also featured here.

The song currently being played is "【PCE】Valkyrie the Power Beauties - Murasaki Kaze", a PC Engine style remix, from Michirin9801's amazing Vol. 1 & 2 albums found here:

Volume 1 & Volume 2
_new_album__best_of_michirin_vol__2_out_now___by_michirin9801-dbxc2v5.jpg


Each volume of her music is loaded onto each 256MB SD card, is super enjoyable to listen to while being productive.
That's right, a Game Boy Horror playing a PC Engine song... who would have thunk it!

Stay retro! :cool:
 
Red Falcon said:
If I were in your shoes, I would run Windows 2000 Pro over XP on such a system - even with enough RAM and GPU, the CPUs just aren't enough to run XP comfortably, even stripped down and optimized.
But, if you get it running with XP, mad props and I hope you enjoy!

Weird to think that XP is considered "retro" now, since it is beyond the 15-year limit of retro software; makes me feel so old. :eek:
Oh for sure, those Socket 8 systems were meant for NT 4.0, and would probably be a solid performer on it, if you want to make it software-hardware era-matched.

Definitely, there are tons of conventions all across the world now for such equipment and software.
I would really like to go to a few someday if the opportunity arose, and hopefully you will be able to hit a few of them up!

The people at those conventions all seem really friendly and very open to questions from what I've seen in videos and blogs, and some of them being far younger and older than us!
It's really cool when things like this bring people together. :)

Heh, I know what you mean, and I probably spend more time watching those channels trying to discover new things more often than finishing up existing projects!
Speaking of existing projects...
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Agreed. I have some P4 1.8ghz systems that I recently got back in service and they originally came with 2k, and even loaded with 768 of ram, they are still a bit slow on xp--IBM 6794's if memory serves me right. I'm toying with the idea of trying 1GB pc133 modules in them as the chipset supported at least 2gb of ddr, and perhaps 3gb of pc133 according to one resource.

The midwest has a few of these and I'm lucky enough to be close enough to them. Too bad I only found out about these recently or I would have already went to some this year.
 
That gameboy is such coolness!

I wish I had taken pictures of our 'laptops in the car playing mp3s using winamp and a cassette adapter'. We were doing this in the mid-1990s right after winplay for win 3.1 came about. It was the ultimate road trip. Our final incarnation was a laptop with an external drive which the 'DJ/navigator' would then choose the perfect song on the fly for the moment. Lots of fun road trips for sure...
 
SamirD said:
Agreed. I have some P4 1.8ghz systems that I recently got back in service and they originally came with 2k, and even loaded with 768 of ram, they are still a bit slow on xp--IBM 6794's if memory serves me right. I'm toying with the idea of trying 1GB pc133 modules in them as the chipset supported at least 2gb of ddr, and perhaps 3gb of pc133 according to one resource.

The midwest has a few of these and I'm lucky enough to be close enough to them. Too bad I only found out about these recently or I would have already went to some this year.
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Oh wow, Netburst Xeon systems still running SDRAM PC133, I didn't know any of the first generation Netburst platforms supported anything other than RDRAM, that's pretty neat actually.
Heck yeah, adding more RAM will definitely help those systems, especially when running XP.


SamirD said:
That gameboy is such coolness!

I wish I had taken pictures of our 'laptops in the car playing mp3s using winamp and a cassette adapter'. We were doing this in the mid-1990s right after winplay for win 3.1 came about. It was the ultimate road trip. Our final incarnation was a laptop with an external drive which the 'DJ/navigator' would then choose the perfect song on the fly for the moment. Lots of fun road trips for sure...
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Thanks! Ah, now those are some memories!
My friends and I did that exact same thing in high school in the early 2000s - we thought we were *so* high-tech back then, and really in a way, it was quite resourceful, on both our parts.

Still, doing that in the 1990s? That's friggin' awesome! :cool:
Laptops, even used back then, were super expensive, so that was quite the setup, and you guys were doing that before even 802.11a Wi-Fi and Google were even a thing yet.
 
Oh, these are Xeons (I wish!)--just your plain jane p4 1.8Ghz. I wonder if IBM made anything that used RDRAM because I still have some from a system that had a northbridge chip overheat and burn out.

Yep, laptops were still a bomb and we were lucky enough to have businesses that had them. Wireless didn't even exist and wired ethernet was still 10Mbps on our laptops. There's nothing like hearing the win3.1 boot up sound in your car speakers. :D

In the late 1990s we actually made a setup with 3 laptops, a network switch, 2 external drives and a mixer for DJing. We were mixing songs from one laptop to the other in winamp while the 3rd laptop acted as a file server. I think the pinnacle of this is when a friend and I dj'd a local university organization party, lol.
 
IIRC, there was no SDR SDRAM support for Xeons. You either used RDRAM or DDR SDRAM. Desktop Pentium 4's had SDR SDRAM, but those were quite crippled, performance wise.

Kind of strange this is in the non-Intel/AMD forum. Perhaps we need a retro forum...
 
dexvx said:
Desktop Pentium 4's had SDR SDRAM, but those were quite crippled, performance wise.
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In my experience, it's more the front side bus that cripples these systems that were using sdram. And a good agp card seems to make a lot of that slowness go away, although still not as fast as a pentium with a faster fsb.
 
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