The Golden Age of PC Gaming? & PC vs Xbox 360

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impactdax

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I know most of the reasons but I am still somewhat flabbergasted by the fact that I could spend $4k+ on a new moderately high end gaming PC (say a duo core E6700, 8800gts, 2 gig ram) and only be (at best) on par with the power of an Xbox 360 that has 2 year old technology in it. I know, I know the Xbox is designed exclusively for games (sort of) and Microsoft doesn’t make much if any money selling them, but still. I am about to plunk down $6k on a new high end system and it still may not perform the way I want on a game like Supreme Commander or god forbid put out 40 fps on Crysis. Hell I’ll probably have to throw out my 8800gtx and get a 9800 by the end of the year! Of course I’ll use my computer for many other things, but still.

Does anyone know what cpu/gpu/ram combination most closely approximates the power of an Xbox 360? It seems to me that many game manufacturers are developing PC and Xbox 360 games simultaneously and the games pretty much look and perform the same on all but the highest end machines. Command and Conquer 3 is a good example of this. I haven’t seen them side by side, but the review and screen shots look pretty comparable.

When will the PC finally separate itself and claim high end gaming as it’s own as a $6,000 system rightfully should? Will it be with the next batch of Direct 10x games, like Crysis? I think maybe so (that is until the next Xbox comes out and shames our PC’s again).
 
.......for 6 grand you are building a computer and you think it won't play modern games well? why would you even do it then, if you know it won't be the greatest thing for the time being *at least*?
 
You would literally, literally have to go out of your way to spend that much money on a PC. I'm talking 8 Raptor hard drives, phase change cooling, custom case paint job, an extreme edition Core 2 processor and a pair of 8800 Ultras and whatever else you can think of to waste exorbitant amounts of money on for miniscule marginal gains in performance.
 
There's no such thing as Consoles vs. PC. It's like comparing Democracy to Socialism. Yeah, they're both types of governments, but both have their pros and cons. Console gaming will always have a better install base b/c of the cheaper cost of having nice graphics, and cheaper gaming in general. Not to mention that even the PS3 can now function totally like a computer now with Linux, and printer support, full keyboard and mouse support... blah blah blah. So consoles are becoming more multi-purpose, and for it being able to do all that for $600, it's very very reasonable. Hence, mommy could buy little Jimmy a PS3 as long as he uses it for homework too. He can surf the internet, download music, research, type up his report when he's done, and then go and play some Resistance: Fall of Man with his buddies.
 
2x 9800GTX's = 1500
1x Q6600 = 300
1x 680i premium board = 300
Raptor 150gb = 200
Full custom watercooling system = 400
200$ on 4gb DDR2-800 RAM.

You're still only at about 3000$ for a system that's way, way more powerful than the 360 would be... Can drive much higher resolutions than the 360, and would look way better than the 360 would.

I don't understand the 6k figure (unless you shop at Alienware... in which you deserve to be parted of your 6k).
 
impactdax said:
I know most of the reasons but I am still somewhat flabbergasted by the fact that I could spend $4k+ on a new moderately high end gaming PC (say a duo core E6700, 8800gts, 2 gig ram) and only be (at best) on par with the power of an Xbox 360
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I spent roughly $1600 on my system.

E6700
8800GTX
2 Gigs of G-Skill DDr2-800

Rest in sig, but the point is, even when I was fooling around on Newegg, my dream Pc cost between $2800-$3400. So, in no way would it cost you $6,000, nor what I spend that much. I'd rather use that as a down payment for my new car...lol
 
So, in no way would it cost you $6,000, nor what I spend that much. I'd rather use that as a down payment for my new car...lol
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This guy has the right idea. OP, you do not.
 
impactdax said:
I know most of the reasons but I am still somewhat flabbergasted by the fact that I could spend $4k+ on a new moderately high end gaming PC (say a duo core E6700, 8800gts, 2 gig ram) and only be (at best) on par with the power of an Xbox 360 that has 2 year old technology in it. I know, I know the Xbox is designed exclusively for games (sort of) and Microsoft doesn’t make much if any money selling them, but still. I am about to plunk down $6k on a new high end system and it still may not perform the way I want on a game like Supreme Commander or god forbid put out 40 fps on Crysis. Hell I’ll probably have to throw out my 8800gtx and get a 9800 by the end of the year! Of course I’ll use my computer for many other things, but still.

Does anyone know what cpu/gpu/ram combination most closely approximates the power of an Xbox 360? It seems to me that many game manufacturers are developing PC and Xbox 360 games simultaneously and the games pretty much look and perform the same on all but the highest end machines. Command and Conquer 3 is a good example of this. I haven’t seen them side by side, but the review and screen shots look pretty comparable.

When will the PC finally separate itself and claim high end gaming as it’s own as a $6,000 system rightfully should? Will it be with the next batch of Direct 10x games, like Crysis? I think maybe so (that is until the next Xbox comes out and shames our PC’s again).
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you're WAYYYY off, the 360 is weaker than a x1900xtx
 
I've only played a few games for the 360, and from what I've seen, many of the games seem dated compared to PC games. Gears of War is the one exception I have seen.
 
ya lots of you dont realize how the consoles work. they run at much lower resolution then pc and some graphical effects may be cut out for performance.
 
Domini said:
ya lots of you dont realize how the consoles work. they run at much lower resolution then pc and some graphical effects may be cut out for performance.
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Purty much the truth, most x360 games run at 1280 x 720 i think? supposed to be some that are gonna be 1050p tho
 
Okay maybe $6k is a little much, but I'm inlcuding a big 27" high quality display and some business software apps like office etc... It will be a little over $5k for sure.

Many games on the Xbox 360 run at 1080i I think, which is 1920 x1080i. Many on the ps3 run at 1920 x 1080p. This is a very respectable resolution. I don't know about frame rates and all the other eye candy turned on, but I don't think it's much different.
 
impactdax said:
Okay maybe $6k is a little much, but I'm inlcuding a big 27" high quality display and some business software apps like office etc... It will be a little over $5k for sure.

Many games on the Xbox 360 run at 1080i I think, which is 1920 x1080i. Many on the ps3 run at 1920 x 1080p. This is a very respectable resolution. I don't know about frame rates and all the other eye candy turned on, but I don't think it's much different.
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A 1080p television isn't exactly cheap either. Also, your xbox 360 can't run the office apps you just mentioned, at least not yet without any mods. So why are you comparing them against each other again?
 
Most XBox 360 games are rendered natively at 720p, and scaled up or down accordingly. A handful are 1080p native, but that's the exception.

As for the PS3, the Wikipedia article claims the RSX is something akin to a 7800. No slouch by any means, but not state of the art. And certainly not $600.

As for both machines, they are capable of impressive graphics, no doubt. And compared to a full gaming rig, of course these machines are cheaper. But as has been stated before, not even the PS3 matches the versatility of your average PC. Also, there are no hardware manufacturers selling their products at a (sometimes significant) loss with some dream of making it back on software and licensing. We pay what we pay for our parts because that's what they cost. I'd like to see what an Xbox 360 or PS3 would cost if you removed the heavy subsidizing inherent in their retail pricing.

Believe me, I love my consoles. Sitting within 5 feet of me are no less than 8 of 'em, not including my GBA and my DS. It's just that I get somewhat annoyed how every generation of consoles brings with it this supposed death of gaming on the PC. As I see it, PC gaming and console gaming are two different cultures. Yes, there is crossover in some areas, but ultimately they're hardly comparable. And anyhow, I prefer tinkering with my PC. That's where the fun is, right?
 
I had a 7800GTX til just recently, which felt pretty close to my 360.

However, because some games (say Oblivion) run slower on the PC, my new 8800GTS feels like a closer match in those games - only I run it at 1680 x 1050 on PC vs the 360's 1280 x 720.
 
A $300 8800GTS 320MB, which is under $300, easily trounces Xbox360.

Everything else in your PC can be basic low end components. You don't need top end processor, you don't need fancy name brand RAM or dual 500GB raid drives, etc...

Considering you probably want a PC anyway, I say it is only a $300 incremental cost to get the 8800gts 320mb to beat the Xbox.

In fact I look at PC gaming as the economical alternative. Since I will have a PC anyway the incremental cost of good graphics card is minor. Games are more plentiful and cheaper as well.

The last console I had was ColecoVision, after going to computers I have not yet been tempted to go back.
 
Last 2 posts are true, but I think if you're a PC gamer who spends a grand on a PC for gaming, you're in denial if you don't consider also getting a 360. Look at the release list for fall, of PC style games that are 360 only, or on 360 first - Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Halo 3 etc.
 
is this like name that tune?
i can build that PC in 800 bucks :p
 
Varmint said:
Last 2 posts are true, but I think if you're a PC gamer who spends a grand on a PC for gaming, you're in denial if you don't consider also getting a 360. Look at the release list for fall, of PC style games that are 360 only, or on 360 first - Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Halo 3 etc.
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PC is getting Assassins Creed :D YAY and i think Mass Effect and im sure Halo3 at some point
 
Varmint said:
Last 2 posts are true, but I think if you're a PC gamer who spends a grand on a PC for gaming, you're in denial if you don't consider also getting a 360. Look at the release list for fall, of PC style games that are 360 only, or on 360 first - Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Halo 3 etc.
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Why waste money on a platform to get titles first?

Halo, Really who cares anymore?

Assassins creed is simultaneous release on Xbox, PS3 and PC according to Ubisoft:
http://press.ubi.com/fullpost.php?id=101&story=256

If Mass Effect is a must have for you, sure buy an Xbox, that makes for an awfully expensive game.

Must haves for me have been Baldurs Gate, NWN, Total Annihilation. How many of those were on Xbox? I buy maybe one game a year and don't fret if Game X is not available on my platform. When a bunch of hot PS3 exclusives drop next year are you going to get one of those as well?

If I did get a console to go with my PC, it would be a Wii or PS3 because they are most likely to get games that are really different from the PC. Xbox Shares a lot of dev tools with PC makeing Xbox titles the ones most likely to end up on PC.

There are 4 platforms (PC, Wii, PS3, Xbox), now you can buy them all if you are afraid of missing a hot game, or you can buy the platform that best matches your needs and learn to not worry about having everything. I am older and work for a living and twitch games or not my thing, I prefer keyboard and mouse control and there is no contest for me. PC is my thing for gaming.

Anyway this is getting way off topic.

Which is spending great amounts more to game on a PC, which is completely unnecessary. Perhaps necessary if you need E-Peen compensation. Look at steam survey and see what most people game on. Of course needing consoles to get titles as soon as they are released just strikes me as yet another form of E-Peen compensation.

BTW. I have an AthlonXP system with an Nforce 1 motherboard. So don't tell me I waste a lot of money to game on PC. This is my only gaming machine. I play games every month, recently just finished KOTOR 2.

I will get a new machine this fall, but it will have near the bottom end CPU and no super expensive gaming components except for a decent, but not top of the line graphics card.
 
impactdax said:
I know most of the reasons but I am still somewhat flabbergasted by the fact that I could spend $4k+ on a new moderately high end gaming PC (say a duo core E6700, 8800gts, 2 gig ram) and only be (at best) on par with the power of an Xbox 360 that has 2 year old technology in it. I know, I know the Xbox is designed exclusively for games (sort of) and Microsoft doesn’t make much if any money selling them, but still. I am about to plunk down $6k on a new high end system and it still may not perform the way I want on a game like Supreme Commander or god forbid put out 40 fps on Crysis. Hell I’ll probably have to throw out my 8800gtx and get a 9800 by the end of the year! Of course I’ll use my computer for many other things, but still.

Does anyone know what cpu/gpu/ram combination most closely approximates the power of an Xbox 360? It seems to me that many game manufacturers are developing PC and Xbox 360 games simultaneously and the games pretty much look and perform the same on all but the highest end machines. Command and Conquer 3 is a good example of this. I haven’t seen them side by side, but the review and screen shots look pretty comparable.

When will the PC finally separate itself and claim high end gaming as it’s own as a $6,000 system rightfully should? Will it be with the next batch of Direct 10x games, like Crysis? I think maybe so (that is until the next Xbox comes out and shames our PC’s again).
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look this is a PC enthusiast forum
its not just about gaming but PCs as a whole
take my self i like just about any thing thats digital
i have a nice PC but i also have alot of old stuff to futz around with

why buy a 100,000 car when a used Toyota camry will do?
same thing we dont have to get high end PCs
and car nuts dont need 500HP engines

this is a hobby dont like it get a camry (Dell) and leave us be
 
Varmint said:
Last 2 posts are true, but I think if you're a PC gamer who spends a grand on a PC for gaming, you're in denial if you don't consider also getting a 360. Look at the release list for fall, of PC style games that are 360 only, or on 360 first - Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Halo 3 etc.
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Because playing shooter games with a joystick makes the little baby jesus cry.
 
I'm suprised the OP mentioned a $6,000 computer and not one person has asked what he intends to do with it aside from playing games.
I can't imagine spending $6000 and having only hardware to show for it. If the purpose is games arent you better off buying a game system and a slew of actual games? Imagine how many PS2 games you could get for $6000. Imagine how many games you could play on a PC costing half as much, or 1/3rd as much.
 
impactdax said:
Okay maybe $6k is a little much, but I'm inlcuding a big 27" high quality display and some business software apps like office etc... It will be a little over $5k for sure.

Many games on the Xbox 360 run at 1080i I think, which is 1920 x1080i. Many on the ps3 run at 1920 x 1080p. This is a very respectable resolution. I don't know about frame rates and all the other eye candy turned on, but I don't think it's much different.
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$4000 or $6000 USD is ridiculous, somebody could get a very, very kick-ass system for $2000 or maybe less. Also, the Xbox 360 doesn't come with a huge monitor or business apps, so why does that even matter?

Nearly all Xbox 360 and PS3 games run at 1280x720, only a couple actually do 1920x1080. The consoles can output 1920x1080, but that doesn't mean the games are rendered at that resolution -- it's called "upscaling," it makes it more compatible with the TV. Also, the Xbox 360 does 1080 progressive just fine, you made it seem like only the PS3 does.
 
Elios said:
PC is getting Assassins Creed :D YAY and i think Mass Effect and im sure Halo3 at some point
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Yeah, but sometimes it takes a year to show up, and then runs like crap. Which is my point, why not have a PC and a 360, and just use whichever is better suited to a particular game? A lot of PC gamers just have too much pride to consider getting a console.
 
krameriffic said:
Because playing shooter games with a joystick makes the little baby jesus cry.
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True, and playing Pro Evo Soccer or Assassin's Creed with a keyboard will do the same. So I buy whichever game is better suited to the 360 or PC. Sometimes its the 'couch vs desk' that determines which I prefer - the couch and controller was much better for KOTOR than my desk and keyboard/mouse.

On PC I play Stalker, NWN2, Company of Heroes, and on 360 it's Pro Evo soccer, Forza 2, and Rainbow Six Vegas (mainly for the splitscreen coop). And Halo 2 if friends are over.
 
Id love to see the Xbox 360 or PS3 play crysis at 1600x1200 at max settings. PC's will soon be able to do that with the release of the nex gen cards (aka 9800 series).
 
Varmint said:
Yeah, but sometimes it takes a year to show up, and then runs like crap. Which is my point, why not have a PC and a 360, and just use whichever is better suited to a particular game? A lot of PC gamers just have too much pride to consider getting a console.
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In which case A PS3 or Wii makes more sense, because you will get different games. As far as playing like crap on PC, the major complaint is they suffer from consolitis, meaning they are limited just like typical console games and not the richer experience that you get with a PC. It sounds more like you are an Xbox salesman.
 
Snowdog said:
In which case A PS3 or Wii makes more sense, because you will get different games. As far as playing like crap on PC, the major complaint is they suffer from consolitis, meaning they are limited just like typical console games and not the richer experience that you get with a PC.
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For others sure, not for me - I don't see any games on those two that interest me.

And no, you're wrong - compare performance of Oblivion, GRAW or RB6 Vegas on PC and 360, they run like crap on the PC.
 
Varmint said:
For others sure, not for me - I don't see any games on those two that interest me.

And no, you're wrong - compare performance of Oblivion, GRAW or RB6 Vegas on PC and 360, they run like crap on the PC.
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Oblivion runs perfectly fine on pc,it was a pc exclusive not a crappy port like the other 2.
 
Elios said:
no thats why you get a Wii
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I'm sorry, but... fuck the wii. I know that sounds like flame bait, but it really isn't. It's just, for me, Mario and company are kind of getting old (except Super Paper Mario, that was awesome). And also, the whole thing's a fad which is why I sold mine. I bought it, played Zelda, Paper Mario, Rayman, didn't touch it for 2-3 months. Sold it. Ebay ftw.
 
$6,000? Are you out of your mind?

The biggest expense in building a custom gaming PC is information. It isn't enough to throw money at a PC, you have to take the time to learn about how PCs work, what components are best, and how to squeeze the most performance out of those components. When all is said and done you may have spent $6,000 depending on how much your time is worth, but the components themselves are not that expensive.
 
Varmint said:
And no, you're wrong - compare performance of Oblivion, GRAW or RB6 Vegas on PC and 360, they run like crap on the PC.
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Where did you get that information? Oblivion is severely cut on the 360. Go do a Google search for side-by-side comparisons and it'll immediately be obvious. The grass is cut or nonexistent. The textures are lower. The detail is worse and, according to someone I know who has played Oblivion on the 360, it still lags (this guy is not a PC gamer). If I tune down the settings to match those of the 360, I can get very smooth framerates outside with a 7900GTX. The 8800 can run Oblivion with texture packs at maximum settings and higher resolutions and still get smooth frames.

GRAW runs PERFECTLY SMOOTH. I've played it with a 7900GT, a 512MB 7950GT, and a 7900GTX and it runs like butter at 1280x960 on all three, maximum settings. GRAW is not a demanding game. Also, I've played it on the 360 and the graphics/frames are worse.

I have Rainbow Six Vegas on my PC and I've played it a lot on a friend's 360. The 360 is smoother but the textures are much lower resolution (look at the fountain at the beginning of the first mission, for example). Also, I play it with an effective 7900GTX at 1280x960, maximum settings. It is smooth most of the time and when there are slowdowns, they are in areas that do not seem as graphically demanding as areas where it runs smoothly. In other words, bad port (although still a great game). If I had an 8800, you can bet that I would be able to play through this game quite smoothly despite the crappy port.

So, no, the 360 does not run better than a PC, especially any PC with an 8800. I like teh 360 and I think it is a great system for budget/pure action/fighting/sports/split-screen gaming. You can get a cheap dual-core Dell with a 19" LCD for under $500 for all your office needs and spend another few hundred bucks for an XBOX360. But I like playing games with AA/AF and at high resolutions, and I have a ton of media content on my PC, and I like realistic games/wargames more than pure action games, so I'd rather spend $1,500 and get a PC with quad-core and an 8800. It's personal preference.
 
Varmint said:
For others sure, not for me - I don't see any games on those two that interest me.

And no, you're wrong - compare performance of Oblivion, GRAW or RB6 Vegas on PC and 360, they run like crap on the PC.
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Spoken like a true fanboy/salesman. You claim PC users simply must get an Xbox for titles like Halo, but hey there conveniently are no PS3 titles that interest you. Yeah I buy that, you can't wait to play Halo 3, but MGS4 holds no interest for you. Sure...

As far as performance, GRAW was re-written to be bigger and more detailed on the PC so that is not an even comparison.
"this version of the game might be the most overall impressive of all. The massive urban areas you fight in are even larger and more detailed than the already spacious areas in the Xbox 360 version of the game, adding a great deal of tension since this added landmass makes for many times more possible hiding places for bad guys. Also, there's more interactivity to the world and flexibility with the tactical map, which gives you more precise control over your teammates."

Again a 8800GTS 320 will do a fine job a reasonable resolutions(xbox 360 resolutions), PC reviews tend to run things 1920x1200 4X AA etc... Much tougher to pull than what the 360 is doing.

The PC has been an environment where you sacrifice Eye Candy for speed if you don't have the hardware, but also you may revisit old games when you get new hardware and max setting to make them shine.

I can state with confidence that I will never get an Xbox, if I do get a console it will be PS3, or Wii, most likely PS3 to add BluRay playback.

Also remember that any advantage Consoles have usually disappear rather quickly, PS2/Xbox 1 were supposedly a better way to game when they first came out, and then all of sudden they looked like toys compared to PC's. By next year Xbox 360 won't be outdoing low end PC's... Ports to the PC will be trivial, if anyone is actually interested in console ports. I know I am not...
 
Arcygenical said:
2x 9800GTX's = 1500
1x Q6600 = 300
1x 680i premium board = 300
Raptor 150gb = 200
Full custom watercooling system = 400
200$ on 4gb DDR2-800 RAM.

You're still only at about 3000$ for a system that's way, way more powerful than the 360 would be... Can drive much higher resolutions than the 360, and would look way better than the 360 would.

I don't understand the 6k figure (unless you shop at Alienware... in which you deserve to be parted of your 6k).
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LOL well said mate
 
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