The difference between Steam and Origin with data collection

[fochkoph]

Guess they'll know when I'm watching porn then.

 

[Cool1Net6]

I mean...it'd be like opening a letter that said "By opening this envelope you agreed to pay us $5,000."

False. The point of an EULA is to tell you "By opening this envelope you agreed to pay us $5,000." This is why you see it before anything significant happens on your computer. If you don't agree, you don't install. Just because the envelope contains a $100 bill doesn't mean you have to open it.

This is equivalent to a store saying "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service". You can walk in without a shirt or shoes, but don't expect service, and if the sign is posted before you get in the store, don't get pissy when service is denied.

-Cool-

 

[Carl]

Interesting read: http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/7492824.page

 

[rampantandroid]

False. The point of an EULA is to tell you "By opening this envelope you agreed to pay us $5,000." This is why you see it before anything significant happens on your computer. If you don't agree, you don't install. Just because the envelope contains a $100 bill doesn't mean you have to open it.

This is equivalent to a store saying "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service". You can walk in without a shirt or shoes, but don't expect service, and if the sign is posted before you get in the store, don't get pissy when service is denied.

-Cool-

Hence my example...

And it's wrong. It's wrong that to begin with EULAs are each longer than the unabridged complete works of Leo Tolstoy. It's wrong that they can just demand rights to your data. What happened to privacy? What happened to respecting my own rights? Like I said earlier: If I had my way, I'd make it law in the US that to collect data from someone's electronic device (wording chosen intentionally):

- The default setting for logging must be off. If the user chooses to skip setting up the program, no logging may occur. Logging shall be opt in only; opt out is not acceptable.

- That the user be told what data is being collected. Every time the data that is being collected changes, the user shall be prompted again with the new information on what data is being prompted, and again given the choice to opt in. Until the user again opts in, no data may be collected.

- That if a user is opted out of logging and then opts in, no data prior to their opt in may be sent (you cannot log data in hopes they'll eventually opt in.)

- After being prompted on first setup if the user chooses to not opt in, you shall not again prompt the user.

- That all data being logged and sent to the server shall be made available for the user to view and see what data is being collected.

- That the logging toggle be clearly visible and easy to find in the program.

- That all logged data be encrypted in a level of encryption greater than or equal to SHA2.

- That violation would impose government sanctions. (This applying to sites with tracking cookies. Gee, would this kill google ads or what?)

- That major functionality cannot be dependent on sending in personal information. You cannot hold major features hostage to get people to enable logging.

Another example? Chrome sends ALL URLs visited to google servers to be logged. No toggle for that shit.

Demanding someone wear clothing to recieve service is not the same as "We will violate your privacy. Please bend over." One is reasonable. The other is being forced on you. Want to play your game? Then we get your data. No way around that.

 

[piscian18]

False. The point of an EULA is to tell you "By opening this envelope you agreed to pay us $5,000." This is why you see it before anything significant happens on your computer. If you don't agree, you don't install. Just because the envelope contains a $100 bill doesn't mean you have to open it.

This is equivalent to a store saying "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service". You can walk in without a shirt or shoes, but don't expect service, and if the sign is posted before you get in the store, don't get pissy when service is denied.

-Cool-

This is more like buying a nonrefundable shirt that has a eula on the tag inside shirt that warns you if you put it on it will record everything you and sell/jk to it.

This isn't something you can return or choose to unpurchase.

 

[Cool1Net6]

This is more like buying a nonrefundable shirt that has a eula on the tag inside shirt that warns you if you put it on it will record everything you and sell/jk to it.

This isn't something you can return or choose to unpurchase.

But it does tell you before you purchase the shirt. You read it, notice that the EULA is bullcrap, and don't buy the shirt. Most of the comments I see act as if they are sneaking spy software into the shirt. I'm not saying I agree with the EULA, its length, or the overreach of access to your data, but you are alerted of this activity prior to installing the offending software.

- That the user be told what data is being collected. Every time the data that is being collected changes, the user shall be prompted again with the new information on what data is being prompted, and again given the choice to opt in. Until the user again opts in, no data may be collected.

EULA's already work like this, unless they have a clause saying that they don't have to alert you of changes. The result of opting-out usually is not using their service. Example: PlayStation Network.

- After being prompted on first setup if the user chooses to not opt in, you shall not again prompt the user.

What if what the user opted out of is essential to the workings of the service? Will you just let the software sit in a crippled state, unable to alert the user that they essentially opted out of a working product?

Another example? Chrome sends ALL URLs visited to google servers to be logged. No toggle for that shit.

Even better, Google monitors all of your searches and over time custom tailors the search results to your liking. One more? Grocery store chains monitor your shopping habbits by tracking you using your payment method (debit card, credit card) if you don't have a rewards card. None of these things are opt-in, but they help enhance your experience with their service.

Again, I don't like EULA's as long as War & Peace, or ones with built-in 'change at any time' clauses, or services that ask for access to more than they should, but the option I do have is to not install the software. I have to weigh if playing this game is more important than my personal information security. I only feel offended if they take my data BEFORE giving me the chance to opt out.

-Cool-

 

[rampantandroid]

EULA's already work like this, unless they have a clause saying that they don't have to alert you of changes. The result of opting-out usually is not using their service. Example: PlayStation Network.

Counter example: All MS products. Do you want to send in information about your experience that will contain no personally identifiable info? Yes/No.

There is a difference between storing your credit card and what games you've played and sending up what programs you have installed and running.

What if what the user opted out of is essential to the workings of the service? Will you just let the software sit in a crippled state, unable to alert the user that they essentially opted out of a working product?

Or you could build a service such that data collection isn't a required thing. Example: Origin or Steam. I DO NOT need to send them my running programs for the service, downloading, installing, patching and running games, to work. Yes, there are some services that are built around collecting data that people want, and that's not valid here. By opting out you preclude the service from working. That is NOT what I am talking about here.

Even better, Google monitors all of your searches and over time custom tailors the search results to your liking. One more? Grocery store chains monitor your shopping habbits by tracking you using your payment method (debit card, credit card) if you don't have a rewards card. None of these things are opt-in, but they help enhance your experience with their service.

I DO NOT want to be monitored. How hard is this to understand? I do not want google to know if I visited amb.org or hardforum.com. That's MY browsing history. That's MY life. MY privacy. MY choice to divulge such info.

They help enhance? Bullshit. Google is logging sites visited, period. If it were a scenario like "do google search. Link #1 clicked. Back button hit soon after, link #2 clicked. Link #1 therefore may be not applicable to that search. THAT is useful info. That I typed amb.org into the damned address bar is NOT useful data to them.

If instead they logged this data LOCALLY on MY COMPUTER and somehow used that to filter things LOCALLY, I might find it less offensive. But logging the data on a server so that it somehow helps me means they are taking personally identifiable info along with my data...which I find offensive.

Better, I SHOULD STILL BE ABLE TO OPT OUT. If they want to claim my relevancy of searches will drop some, fine...but I can't opt out with Chrome, so it's bullshit.

Again, I don't like EULA's as long as War & Peace, or ones with built-in 'change at any time' clauses, or services that ask for access to more than they should, but the option I do have is to not install the software. I have to weigh if playing this game is more important than my personal information security. I only feel offended if they take my data BEFORE giving me the chance to opt out.

And that SHOULD NOT be the option you have. Exactly my damned point - my point is that the option should be less legalese and the option to opt out of them violating your privacy.

 

[FYMbyIce]

Seems like these days you need to have a dedicated computer for gaming.
Or just buy a console since this is all really not worth the hassle, none of the
games in question are all that great.

 

[piscian18]

But it does tell you before you purchase the shirt. You read it, notice that the EULA is bullcrap, and don't buy the shirt. Most of the comments I see act as if they are sneaking spy software into the shirt. I'm not saying I agree with the EULA, its length, or the overreach of access to your data, but you are alerted of this activity prior to installing the offending software.

-Cool-

The EULA is on the back of the box now?

 

[b14z3]

I DO NOT want to be monitored. How hard is this to understand? I do not want google to know if I visited amb.org or hardforum.com. That's MY browsing history. That's MY life. MY privacy. MY choice to divulge such info.

First - they don't know that YOU visited those sites, just that someone did, maybe user 123456789...

2nd - yeah it is your choice, don't use their services if you're that strongly against it... it's not the only boat on the lake so to speak. Albeit some lakes are private access with rules

 

[Climber]

The EULA was changed like we wanted. Plus they made specifically clear that the privacy laws trump the EULA. Why is this still being discussed?

 

[rampantandroid]

First - they don't know that YOU visited those sites, just that someone did, maybe user 123456789...

2nd - yeah it is your choice, don't use their services if you're that strongly against it... it's not the only boat on the lake so to speak. Albeit some lakes are private access with rules

And its why I try to stay away from Chrome. Sadly, it is otherwise one of the better browsers. Hell, if I could do it easily, I'd nab a packet sniffer and have all packets sending the URLs down.

But I haven't used a sniffer on it yet, so hell if I know what data they're using. Wouldn't be too hard to figure out stuff on back end if they're logging your IP.

 

[eggrock]

It is. Which is why you have to agree to the terms of service before you install. The opting out is the uninstallation of the program.

I know that comes out sounding like a dick, but as the law sees it that is good enough. I think what you mean is the ability to opt-out of the data collection with the ability to still use the program though? Yeah, that would be nice.

Trouble with that is that any 3rd party (and probably EA) will retain your data once you've uninstalled.

 

[FYMbyIce]

The EULA was changed like we wanted. Plus they made specifically clear that the privacy laws trump the EULA. Why is this still being discussed?

Because fuck em that's why.

So they took it out so what they'll still do it.