The 4K 60hz limitation is crazy! What's the future of firmware updates, etc?

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Daniel42

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Nov 16, 2017
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After finally being forced to buy a 4K TV screen since my last one died, I'm blown away by how undeveloped 4K is.

- HDMI 2.0 can only push 4K at 120hz max.
- My screen does 120hz (sony 900e)

What's the point of a 120hz panel if it can't accept a 120hz signal!?

It looks like HDMI 2.1 is finally going to resolve this sometime next year.

Does anyone know if existing hardware will be able to update to 2.1 via firmware, or have any insight into what'll be happening with 4K monitors/TV?

I assume 4K monitors have similar limitations?

So not only is it nearly impossible to find a decent 1080p TV, but we can't even drive 4K sets anywhere near where we should due to bandwidth limitations, it requires way more graphics power to power, and there is relatively very little 4K content out there.

I thought 4K wouldn't suck by now.
 
Well I mean it's not that big of a deal since the only thing in the consumer world that provides 120hz signals is a desktop PC, and while there's nothing stopping you, TVs aren't marketed for or used as monitors by most people.

The 2017 LG OLEDs will take 1080p 120hz input, but even that capability is very rare among TVs.

I wouldn't expect anything you own to get firmware updated to HDMI 2.1, it's a huge bandwidth increase. To make existing sets firmware-upgradeable would require hardware to be prepared for that and I guarantee what every manufacturer actually wants is for you to buy all new HDMI 2.1 stuff if you care about HDMI 2.1 features.
 
The Sony 900E will also accept 1080p 120hz with a pretty good input lag and simplified upconversion according to rtings.com.

Seems like an awful waste because I suspect you're right - manufacturers will be much happier to get us to buy new devices!

I think HDMI 2.1 involves compression so I thought it might be technically possible for it to show up in Android TV with a tiny chance to get deployed to old devices.

But I should probably take my screen back and get something cheaper to tide me over.
 
We have the interconnect standards. All of the latest video cards support DP1.4, and HDMI 2.1 should come along with Volta.

We're just waiting on the faster processors that will turn those signals into pixels, and reliable displays that can handle these faster update rates. Those things need to be low-power and low-latency and low-priced, or the monitor will not be mainstream viable.

We have one-off designs that require hacks like 5k using USB C / Thunderbolt3, but those are even less common than DP 1.4. Those will sell in the tens of thousands if they're lucky.
 
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I'm confused about this too.

Is there 4k 120hz content out now?

From what I've read, 120hz is only used to better handle judder and blur through the tv's internal processing
 
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Kdawg said:
I'm confused about this too.

Is there 4k 120hz content out now?

From what I've read, 120hz is only used to better handle judder and blur through the tv's internal processing
Click to expand...

It's just internal processing.

Like early-generation 1080p TVs that were marked "120 Hz"
 
I'm rockin' a 36" JVC CRT TV from 2003. It weighs about 180 pounds, and when I power it on, street lights dim a bit. I have been waiting for the damn thing to die, but it just won't. It's like the Energizer Bunny of yore. It's going to cost me 50 bucks to have an electronics burial dump to accept it, and there's no way in hell that I can move the bitch myself. Anyways, I'm getting a new TV soon. I'm thinking about a 27" RCA CRT that I saw at Goodwill.

Or, maybe a "dumb" 32" 1080p, as I already have a Roku.
 
Daniel42 said:
After finally being forced to buy a 4K TV screen since my last one died, I'm blown away by how undeveloped 4K is.

- HDMI 2.0 can only push 4K at 120hz max.
- My screen does 120hz (sony 900e)

What's the point of a 120hz panel if it can't accept a 120hz signal!?

It looks like HDMI 2.1 is finally going to resolve this sometime next year.

Does anyone know if existing hardware will be able to update to 2.1 via firmware, or have any insight into what'll be happening with 4K monitors/TV?

I assume 4K monitors have similar limitations?

So not only is it nearly impossible to find a decent 1080p TV, but we can't even drive 4K sets anywhere near where we should due to bandwidth limitations, it requires way more graphics power to power, and there is relatively very little 4K content out there.

I thought 4K wouldn't suck by now.
Click to expand...

HDMI 2.1 will have a max bandwidth of 48 Gbit/s and require new cables. Enables up to 8K. It won't be able to be enabled via a firmware upgrade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.1

Read this cnet article https://www.cnet.com/news/hdmi-2-1-what-you-need-to-know/

Variable refresh rate (Game Mode VRR) and Dynamic HDR are some neat features with HDMI 2.1, worth the wait? idk - may cost $$$ in graphics cards.

How do you like your 900e? What size? Seems like lots of issues with the Android OS but it may be improving. As a PC monitor do you like it? 1 star reviews on Amazon have me holding back.

You say it can't accept 4K@120Hz, can you elaborate?

This year may not be the best time to upgrade TV's but IMO early adopters of HDMI 2.1 hardware may not be the best choice either as it'll probably take 1-2 years for it to get to reasonable price points.
 
Daniel42 said:
After finally being forced to buy a 4K TV screen since my last one died, I'm blown away by how undeveloped 4K is.

- HDMI 2.0 can only push 4K at 120hz max.
- My screen does 120hz (sony 900e)

What's the point of a 120hz panel if it can't accept a 120hz signal!?

It looks like HDMI 2.1 is finally going to resolve this sometime next year.

Does anyone know if existing hardware will be able to update to 2.1 via firmware, or have any insight into what'll be happening with 4K monitors/TV?

I assume 4K monitors have similar limitations?
Click to expand...

Some HDMI 2.1 features could be implemented by firmware updates. Whether manufacturers will do them remains to be seen. For example variable refresh rate could be done over HDMI 2.0 with a firmware update and I believe dynamic HDR is coming as a patch at least for Samsung TVs.

Samsung could for example offer an upgrade HDMI 2.1 One Connect box for their 2016 and 2017 TVs, they have had them in the past but it's doubtful if we will actually see them as they might just want to sell you a new TV.

Refresh rate is limited entirely by HDMI 2.0, which can only put out 4K @ 60 Hz. Some manufacturers support 1080p @ 120 Hz input but for example my Samsung KS7005 (Nordic KS8000) only accepts 60 Hz input, which is a bummer. The higher refresh rate of the panel is now mainly for the soap opera / sports modes I think so generally just useless.

We are still a long way from benefiting from HDMI 2.1 int he first place. We need VRR support over HDMI from Nvidia and AMD on PC as well as for Xbox and PS4. With Nvidia so hung up on their G-Sync technology it remains to be seen if and when VRR over HDMI will become a reality on PC.

144 Hz 4K computer displays are coming next year and will require Displayport 1.4 so GTX10xx/RX4xx or newer. I have no need to upgrade my GPU until I can buy one of these babies.
 
This is why I bought a cheap 1080p dumb TV 2 years ago. It just takes so long for everything else to catch up and I use a Fire stick for apps. Hell, I hardly even turn the thing on these days.
 
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