Tesla Model 3 Outsells BMW and Mercedes Models

FrgMstr

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Folks in California are going all in for Tesla's Model 3 in a big way. Out west, the Model 3 is outselling the Mercedes C-class and BMW 3-series cars. I know that personally the last time I went to buy a family vehicle I did give Tesla a look, but given road trips here in Texas can cover quite a long distance, the "limited" mileage per charge kept me away. Once we have an electric car that can make it from Dallas to Houston in a single charge, you will likely find one in my garage as well.


During the first quarter, production was still fairly limited, but deliveries were mostly concentrated in California and it was enough for Tesla to take the top position. According to the California New Car Dealers Association (CNCDA), 3,723 Model 3 vehicles were registered between January and March, which pushed the vehicle to the top of what they refer to as the ‘near luxury’ segment:
 

Armenius

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Sorry, but I don't consider the Model 3 anwhere near luxury let alone near-near luxury, even though they're competing in the same price bracket. The range doesn't bother me, but I could not live with that interior every day.
 

Mchart

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https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model...la-model-3-monthly-update-for-april-2018.html

As more and more idiots receive their Model 3 and realize the thing won't work as a daily driver the car sales will slow down.

You don't see these quality issues on the cheapest cars available from any other manufacturer, and IMO the resale value on these things will be horrid given that you'd be crazy to own one out of warranty.
 

katanaD

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https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model...la-model-3-monthly-update-for-april-2018.html

As more and more idiots receive their Model 3 and realize the thing won't work as a daily driver the car sales will slow down.

You don't see these quality issues on the cheapest cars available from any other manufacturer, and IMO the resale value on these things will be horrid given that you'd be crazy to own one out of warranty.


interesting. thats some odd issues to have too, especially the radio volume one. I have had issue with the keyless system on my NON EV car where it would open the lock, but not allow the car to start, and there was no other way to start the car. VERY annoying
 

griffinhart

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Ars just had an article on the Model 3.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/0...t-this-point-would-cause-tesla-to-lose-money/

Apparently they haven't been shipping the base $35k models yet, only the $47k models because they will lose money.

There also appears to be a problem with breaking on the Model 3. Consumer Reports has tested multiple Model 3's and found that the 60mph breaking requires 7 more feet to stop than a Ford f-150. Musk claims that it's something that can be fixed with firmware, but others seem to think that the break pads they use are glazing over.

The Edmund's experience sounds terrible too. Maybe they just got a lemon, but damn, all those problems within the first 5000 miles is nuts.
 

vegeta535

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Ars just had an article on the Model 3.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/0...t-this-point-would-cause-tesla-to-lose-money/

Apparently they haven't been shipping the base $35k models yet, only the $47k models because they will lose money.

There also appears to be a problem with breaking on the Model 3. Consumer Reports has tested multiple Model 3's and found that the 60mph breaking requires 7 more feet to stop than a Ford f-150. Musk claims that it's something that can be fixed with firmware, but others seem to think that the break pads they use are glazing over.

The Edmund's experience sounds terrible too. Maybe they just got a lemon, but damn, all those problems within the first 5000 miles is nuts.
How do these cars even make it on the road with brake issues if it is just a firmware issue? Shouldn't that been a quick easy fix? Still not acceptable with it being a hardware or software issue. I really do not understand why people drool over Tesla. They always been know and many complaints about their poor QC.
 

SomeoneElse

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How do these cars even make it on the road with brake issues if it is just a firmware issue? Shouldn't that been a quick easy fix? Still not acceptable with it being a hardware or software issue. I really do not understand why people drool over Tesla. They always been know and many complaints about their poor QC.
Its the fact that they are the first true EV car maker that has seem some success. I for one think Telsa is a great company. They have a bad track record but my take is that it really is FORCING all other auto makers to adjust.....I welcome that any day. They have to change or they will get left behind.
Don't think the all other companies aren't trying to put them out of business to remain relevant. Telsa pushes the innovation in the auto industry and everyone hates them for it. I'm not saying they are the greatest thing since sliced bread but I want the company to succeed because its good to see the change that has been needed for a few decades now.
 

Mchart

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Wierdo

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https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model...la-model-3-monthly-update-for-april-2018.html

As more and more idiots receive their Model 3 and realize the thing won't work as a daily driver the car sales will slow down.

You don't see these quality issues on the cheapest cars available from any other manufacturer, and IMO the resale value on these things will be horrid given that you'd be crazy to own one out of warranty.

This is the interesting thing to me, these cars don't go by models, the fixes are constant so the same car would be a totally different animal the following year due to updates, kinda like the stuff Android OS went through.

So how are we supposed to track the quality level of a changing car, hard enough with the one they got in 2017, but then throw in the latest ones with the new parts and tweaks and it gets pretty complicated.

I think it's gonna have to be a product that gets annual reviews to track progress, and perhaps review by production date as well. Could help when shopping for a used one down the road for example.

Would be nice if they could version the hardware changes at least, the software goes to all of them so that's fine, but it would be nice to see a hardware update list somewhere as well.

Great car imho, but a list of these refinements somewhere would be good information to have.
 

Mchart

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This is the interesting thing to me, these cars don't go by models, the fixes are constant so the same car would be a totally different animal the following year due to updates, kinda like the stuff Android OS went through. How are we supposed to track the quality level of a changing car, hard enough with the one they got in 2017, but then throw in the latest ones with the new parts and tweaks and it gets pretty complicated.

I think it's gonna have to be a product that gets annual reviews to track progress, and perhaps review by production date as well. Could help when shopping for a used one down the road for example.

Would be nice if they could version the hardware changes at least, the software goes to all of them so that's fine, but it would be nice to see a hardware update list somewhere as well.

There are substantial quality issues with Tesla's beyond software issues. If it really was just software issues I don't think people would be giving Tesla crap.

Have you sat in any of the three Tesla's currently being sold? For the price they are garbage.

By the way no sane person shopping used would buy a Tesla at the moment with all of the -physical- quality issues, and the fact that *only* Tesla can repair the vehicles. And newsflash - If you think an EV is cheaper to maintain than an ICE vehicle.. You're wrong.

IMO the Model 3 will be the death of Tesla as it was supposed to be the model that the average person would buy as a daily driver and people are quickly realizing that Tesla just couldn't do it.

I suspect at some point Tesla's technology / plants will be acquired by another manufacturer who knows how to execute properly unless Tesla scales back and only sticks with building low volume models. It's only a matter of time.
 
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Wierdo

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There are substantial quality issues with Tesla's beyond software issues. If it really was just software issues I don't think people would be giving Tesla crap.

Have you sat in any of the three Tesla's currently being sold? For the price they are garbage.

I gave the model 3 a test drive, it's a class of its own for a well off techie like me to be honest, and this is from someone who tried a Lexus and BMW. The back seats are not great for this price range, but in terms of cool tech features, cargo space, amazing field of view, and performance/handling it's just a class of its own tbh.

Even the article mentioned here about 2017 model's issues alludes to that:
After my drive, a friend of mine asked me how the Model 3 compares to the current BMW 3 Series, and I told him I’d rather have the Tesla. He laughed. I wasn’t kidding.

So yeah there's allot to like about the car, but you have to try it out and see if the tradeoffs are the right mix for you. It may appeal to the techie buyer more than a baby boomer executive and so on, it certainly caters to a specific niche in its market segment.
 
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Mchart

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I gave the model 3 a test drive, it's a class of its own for a well off techie like me to be honest, and this is from someone who tried a Lexus and BMW. The back seats are not great for this price range, but in terms of cool tech features, like cargo space and amazing field of view, and performance/handling it's just a class of its own tbh.

Even the article mentioned here about 2017 model's issues alludes to that:


So yeah there's allot to like about the car, but you have to try it out and see if the tradeoffs are the right mix for you. It may appeal to the well off techie more than a baby boomer executive and so on, it certainly caters to a specific niche in its market segment.

The interior is complete garbage compared to a base 3 series. Not that i'd ever buy a 3 series, but this is where the comparison breaks down.

I think folks get blinded by the technology and overlook basic stuff - Such as interior full of rattles, poor NVH, and pieces held on with double sided tape.

And i'll also comment that the giant touchscreen providing control for every feature of the car is a step backwards in ergonomic design in a car. It's a novelty. It's the same type of novelty as the digital gauge clusters / buttons from the 80's. When you have to dig around in menus on a touchscreen with no tactile feedback to do something as simple as changing the radio station, or adjusting fan speed - It's poor design.

'Techie buyers' come and go. You'll get tired of the car pretty fast when it actually dawns on you that the car is a piece of shit and the novelty of 'new tech' wears out.
 
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Mchart

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Why won't they work as a daily driver?

When the car is in the shop every month to fix a new problem that car is not one a normal person who only can afford to own one vehicle can continue owning as they don't have the luxury of the car constantly being at the service center.

When you have to buy another vehicle that actually starts up every morning and isn't rattling apart after 10k miles because your Tesla isn't a daily driver..

Most people buying Model 3's (or any Tesla) own another vehicle...

If I owned a vehicle that had pieces falling off within the first 3 years of ownership I would no longer own that car, and even the software issues described I wouldn't be willing to tolerate. It's not worth my sanity, and if I really cared about the environment i'd just get some cheap efficient used car anyways.
 

Dayaks

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There are substantial quality issues with Tesla's beyond software issues. If it really was just software issues I don't think people would be giving Tesla crap.

Have you sat in any of the three Tesla's currently being sold? For the price they are garbage.

By the way no sane person shopping used would buy a Tesla at the moment with all of the -physical- quality issues, and the fact that *only* Tesla can repair the vehicles. And newsflash - If you think an EV is cheaper to maintain than an ICE vehicle.. You're wrong.

IMO the Model 3 will be the death of Tesla as it was supposed to be the model that the average person would buy as a daily driver and people are quickly realizing that Tesla just couldn't do it.

I suspect at some point Tesla's technology / plants will be acquired by another manufacturer who knows how to execute properly unless Tesla scales back and only sticks with building low volume models. It's only a matter of time.

Maybe CA can save them. Just require two Teslas in the driveway along with the required solar panels on new homes!
 

Wierdo

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The interior is complete garbage compared to a base 3 series. Not that i'd ever buy a 3 series, but this is where the comparison breaks down.

I think folks get blinded by the technology and overlook basic stuff - Such as interior full of rattles, poor NVH, and pieces held on with double sided tape.

Like I said, it really depends on what you value in luxury, the new generation likes high-tech, they will settle for lesser back seat quality in exchange for better connectivity and modernized controls, they're more comfortable with tablets and phones, bomber cockpit knobs are for grandpa lol.

Personally the biggest selling feature for me is the clean open space in front of the dash, it's very easy on my eyes, I love that. Compliments the glass roof very nicely so I'm excited to take that for a spin on a scenic route.

I believe the issues mentioned are mostly resolved in the latest batches, but it's hard to cover that when they don't do model years.

Sure, you may call it blinded by technology but to those who make a ton of money from it it's living in it, not gonna apologize for a lifestyle that added a digit to my paycheck lol.
 

Mchart

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Like I said, it really depends on what you value in luxury, the new generation likes high-tech, they will settle for lesser back seat quality in exchange for better connectivity and modernized controls, they're more comfortable with tablets and phones, bomber cockpit knobs are for grandpa lol.

Personally the biggest selling feature for me is the clean open space in front of the dash, it's very easy on my eyes, I love that. Compliments the glass roof very nicely so I'm excited to take that for a spin on a scenic route.

I believe the issues mentioned are mostly resolved in the latest batches, but it's hard to cover that when they don't do model years.

Sure, you may call it blinded by technology but to those who make a ton of money from it it's living in it, not gonna apologize for a lifestyle that added a digit to my paycheck lol.

It's not just the back seats that are garbage. It's the entire car to include the most important seat - The drivers seat.
 

wizzi01

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How do these cars even make it on the road with brake issues if it is just a firmware issue? Shouldn't that been a quick easy fix? Still not acceptable with it being a hardware or software issue. I really do not understand why people drool over Tesla. They always been know and many complaints about their poor QC.

The same way the Gen 3 Prius had braking issues when hitting a pot hole at the same and the brakes would totally fail. They are computer controlled via algorithm because they are regenerative brakes.
 

Wierdo

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It's not just the back seats that are garbage. It's the entire car to include the most important seat - The drivers seat.

Was not my experience, but maybe it was a new batch, I was pretty impressed with it like most reviewers.

But I will certainly keep track of issues when we get ours and share if anything interesting shows up, working on selling our Jeep Wrangler at the moment, fun ride but the thing is in the shop every other week, getting old.
 
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Its the fact that they are the first true EV car maker that has seem some success. I for one think Telsa is a great company. They have a bad track record but my take is that it really is FORCING all other auto makers to adjust.....I welcome that any day. They have to change or they will get left behind.
Don't think the all other companies aren't trying to put them out of business to remain relevant. Telsa pushes the innovation in the auto industry and everyone hates them for it. I'm not saying they are the greatest thing since sliced bread but I want the company to succeed because its good to see the change that has been needed for a few decades now.

Tesla, the Tucker of the 21st century.
 

Mchart

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Was not my experience, but maybe it was a new batch, I was pretty impressed with it like most reviewers.

But I will certainly keep track of issues when we get ours and share if anything interesting shows up, working on selling our Jeep Wrangler at the moment, fun ride but the thing is in the shop every other week, getting old.

Well, you're moving from a POS to a POS. That may be part of your problem. You're going from a vehicle that really should only be used for actual off roading, but for some reason people buy as a daily driver to just a piece of shit.

I really suggest you go out there and try test driving some other cars. I know people who have driven nothing but wrangler's for some reason their entire life and they don't seem to comprehend that the vehicle is a poor choice for actually driving every day on a road. It's not a bad vehicle.. When used for it's very narrow specific function. It's insane to think people buy them for daily drivers on normal roads.
 

Wierdo

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Well, you're moving from a POS to a POS. That may be part of your problem. You're going from a vehicle that really should only be used for actual off roading, but for some reason people buy as a daily driver to just a piece of shit.

I really suggest you go out there and try test driving some other cars. I know people who have driven nothing but wrangler's for some reason their entire life and they don't seem to comprehend that the vehicle is a poor choice for actually driving every day on a road. It's not a bad vehicle.. When used for it's very narrow specific function. It's insane to think people buy them for daily drivers on normal roads.

Yeah, we just like to go to the mountains sometimes, camping and mudding and such, wanted a fun car that didn't take up too much space.

But I think we're probably past the adventure phase, it's fun for the first three years but then the reality of recent Jeep quality issues and local dealership service headaches sets in lol.

The next vehicle we decided was back to sedans again, better for city life now that we relocated from WV.

We tried a bunch of cars, and talked to a couple neighbors that own them here, not an impulse buy but rather something we looked at for the last three months or so.

The other option was a BMW I3 but we wanted to get out of using gas engines completely, the range extender option didn't cut it. Really nice car though.
 
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jnemesh

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I am done waiting for the base model 3 to ship. I WAS considering the Model 3 mainly due to the network of superchargers, that would allow me to take the vehicle on my work road trips to Eastern WA, ID and OR. However, I am now looking at the Kia Niro EV, which WILL be available this year for $35k...and I will be able to claim the $7500 tax credit. Anyone who wants the base $35k Tesla will miss out on the tax credits, as they will be used by the rich who can afford the $50-78k trims. Instead of using the one car for everything, i will buy my EV for my daily commute (which is approx 100 miles round trip) and just use my existing gas powered vehicle for the road trips.
 

Mchart

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GM is only still in business because a a few billion dollar loan......whats your point?
"Government Motors" is also the nickname so there is that too.....

I don't give a shit about GM. I would have been fine if they never received government funding.

What exactly does this have to do with the discussion?
 

Wierdo

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I am done waiting for the base model 3 to ship. I WAS considering the Model 3 mainly due to the network of superchargers, that would allow me to take the vehicle on my work road trips to Eastern WA, ID and OR. However, I am now looking at the Kia Niro EV, which WILL be available this year for $35k...and I will be able to claim the $7500 tax credit. Anyone who wants the base $35k Tesla will miss out on the tax credits, as they will be used by the rich who can afford the $50-78k trims. Instead of using the one car for everything, i will buy my EV for my daily commute (which is approx 100 miles round trip) and just use my existing gas powered vehicle for the road trips.

The new Nissan Leaf with 150 mile range for under $30k (starting) looks pretty good, and I think still qualifies for the full credit, you check that out? The Niro looks pretty good too yeah, I hope they price them at 35k, I thought they were going for a bit higher last I checked.

Right now that's what we were debating on, get the long range or grab the base model late. Originally we wanted regular range with glass roof and dual motors for added traction - and redundancy - but we moved to a new location where snow is not a concern anymore.
 

Mchart

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The new Nissan Leaf with 150 mile range for under $30k (starting) looks pretty good, and I think still qualifies for the full credit, you check that out? The Niro looks pretty good too yeah, I hope they price them at 35k, I thought they were going for a bit higher last I checked.

Right now that's what we were debating on, get the long range or grab the base model late. Originally we wanted regular range with glass roof and dual motors for added traction - and redundancy - but we moved to a new location where snow is not a concern anymore.

Why aren't you looking at the Bolt?
 

Mchart

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It was worse than a design flaw.

No - I would argue that it wasn't. Design flaws typically aren't fixed once a vehicle is sold. A QC error like forgetting brake pads while embarrassing can - and was fixed.

Tesla isn't going to fix the fact that the Model 3 has pieces of trim stuck together with double sided tape. They aren't going to fix massive panel gaps, etc.
 

Biznatch

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Well, you're moving from a POS to a POS. That may be part of your problem. You're going from a vehicle that really should only be used for actual off roading, but for some reason people buy as a daily driver to just a piece of shit.

I really suggest you go out there and try test driving some other cars. I know people who have driven nothing but wrangler's for some reason their entire life and they don't seem to comprehend that the vehicle is a poor choice for actually driving every day on a road. It's not a bad vehicle.. When used for it's very narrow specific function. It's insane to think people buy them for daily drivers on normal roads.

Dude, we get it, you hate tesla...... It doesn't fit your needs, that's fine, but no need to come here and make it sound like only an idiot would buy the car, even though it fits their needs. And you also somehow seem to know that every single one is filled with rattles and is going to fall apart, which is just dumb and takes away and credit from any arguments you're trying to make...... You've never owned the car, and are basing all your assumptions on the posts you read from other people online. That obviously means they are completely true and affect 100% of telsa owners......
 
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