Tesla Is About to Feel the Heat as Electric Car Manufacturers Roll Out New Cars

cageymaru

cageymaru

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 10, 2003
Messages
21,971
Conventional car manufacturers are ready to showoff their new electric car models to meet demands in China and greenhouse standards in Europe. Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, Audi, and Porsche all have new cars ready to compete with Tesla in the SUV and luxury categories. These vehicles purportedly can match Tesla's current driving range advantage but lack the charging station infrastructure that Tesla has established. In the mass market category, Tesla's Model 3 is going to compete against the similarly priced BMW i3 and a slew of other manufacturers like Chevrolet, Nissan, and Volkswagen.

Tesla's Supercharger network has a big advantage over competitors. The company's website says it has 1,332 fast-charging stations with 10,901 charging units worldwide. Electric cars made by other manufacturers can't use Tesla stations and public and private charging stations are sporadic. European carmakers are rolling out their own fast-charging highway network through a joint venture, but only a few stations are up and running.
 
I would be really surprised if Tesla didn't make their superchargers available to other cars after not too long. They already charge Model 3 users for usage, so it shouldn't be hard to charge everybody, and they can license a Tesla ultra cool connector for dongles for other cars. In washington state, the per kWh rate is more than twice my tariff, and my residential tariff is close to 2x the commercial tariff if they can accept the primary voltage at their superchargers (600+V from the utility) -- that's pretty good economics for selling to other people's cars.

Plus, it will be a lot easier for other carmakers to roll out their charging network -- they can measure demand at Tesla stations, and start by replicating stations with the highest demand (which is likely the major highway corridors for one-day drives between cities).
 
Failure to have compatible charging stations between manufacturers is a stupid, short-sighted decision that will not help EV adoption, only hinder it.
Charging stations need to be independent of the manufacturer, just like existing gas stations. For example, I'm fairly certain my local Cumberland Farms station is not associated with nor owned by Ford, GM, Toyota or any other car manufacturer, yet the station can fill the tank of any car that pulls up to a pump.
 
toast0 said:
I would be really surprised if Tesla didn't make their superchargers available to other cars after not too long. They already charge Model 3 users for usage, so it shouldn't be hard to charge everybody, and they can license a Tesla ultra cool connector for dongles for other cars. In washington state, the per kWh rate is more than twice my tariff, and my residential tariff is close to 2x the commercial tariff if they can accept the primary voltage at their superchargers (600+V from the utility) -- that's pretty good economics for selling to other people's cars.

Plus, it will be a lot easier for other carmakers to roll out their charging network -- they can measure demand at Tesla stations, and start by replicating stations with the highest demand (which is likely the major highway corridors for one-day drives between cities).
Click to expand...

The offer is on the table, the companies just have to pitch in depending on the ratio of their usage, which is fair. I'm hoping they'll settle around a unified standard here sooner rather than later, would be good for everyone.
 
This is good, competition is almost invariably a plus for the customers. I could see having an electric vehicle for around town trips, but I'm keeping my ICE vehicles for long trips.
 
sadsteve said:
This is good, competition is almost invariably a plus for the customers. I could see having an electric vehicle for around town trips, but I'm keeping my ICE vehicles for long trips.
Click to expand...

Yep exactly my thinking.
 
This is good; I am interested in an electric vehicle in the future, but really don't like the direction Tesla has been going with their interiors & controls. I prefer buttons over touchscreens in my cars for one, and really hate how the gauges are set up in the Model 3; center mounted gauges are the devil. Or possibly communist. Or some sort of gulag-hellish mix. 597bceae4528e621008b58b2.jpg
 
dreadcthulhu said:
This is good; I am interested in an electric vehicle in the future, but really don't like the direction Tesla has been going with their interiors & controls. I prefer buttons over touchscreens in my cars for one, and really hate how the gauges are set up in the Model 3; center mounted gauges are the devil. Or possibly communist. Or some sort of gulag-hellish mix.View attachment 100052
Click to expand...
I saw a Model 3 in the wild with some nice aftermarket wheels and was digging it. That interior is god awful, though, and would prevent me from ever buying one.
 
If my father bought another electric car today he would probally buy another tesla .


Just because of the charging network
 
If I was going to go eletric I'd just pick up a fiat 500e for 5 grand and use it to commute to work and back for almost nothing. But I drive my F150 instead, because America.
 
BSmith said:
If Tesla does not make ther charging stations available to all makes, then they are driving a stake into the heart of the entire EV industry.

This could get entertaining.
Click to expand...
Doubt they will share, then these stations will be full of non tesla cars. Ev stations should be built either by the gov or a collaboration of all ev manufacturers, so they all eat the cost.
 
I guess I understand all the Tesla/musk hate but you understand he and his company laid the groundwork for this, made it feasible. Trash him all you want, and he seems to have burned out (assuming not many of you have held high stress executive positions before) which is not that all uncommon. Been there. Done that.

No matter your view of Tesla, the organization or musk, he did do what he claims he does and potentially created a solution to a huge problem. And now everyone is on the bandwagon after his company created the need for infrastructure. in the end he probably doesn't get the trophy, but...
 
TangledThornz said:
Will any be affordable for the 99.7%?
Click to expand...
hrmmmm? The Model 3 is fairly cheap all things considered. All new cars are extremely overpriced which has been a trend for years. Sorry if your salary isn't enough for an entry EV, but what a loaded statement that only .03% can afford them considering the Model 3, Leaf, etc... I wouldn't pay 49k for entry level EV, but look at the market - they are charging insane prices for all new cars.
 
BSmith said:
If Tesla does not make ther charging stations available to all makes, then they are driving a stake into the heart of the entire EV industry.

This could get entertaining.
Click to expand...
Honestly - this could be Tesla's saving grace... The infrastructure is there, charge for it (competing orgs). Gas stations make almost zero money off selling gasoline, it goes to the producer. Tesla could make a fortune for having the foresight to invest and take losses on all of the charging stations. Bezos isn't doing to bad these days and he made a fairly similar move.
 
haste. said:
hrmmmm? The Model 3 is fairly cheap all things considered. All new cars are extremely overpriced which has been a trend for years. Sorry if your salary isn't enough for an entry EV, but what a loaded statement that only .03% can afford them considering the Model 3, Leaf, etc... I wouldn't pay 49k for entry level EV, but look at the market - they are charging insane prices for all new cars.
Click to expand...

Why would I buy a tiny electric car (with no spare tire), when I can buy a nice mid-sized hybrid or ice for 25%-30% less, and never have to worry about the limited range?

Especially since the high electricity costs here in Southern California make the cost per mile of an EV about the same as a Hybrid.

It's easier to take 5 minutes once a month to fill my hybrid, than plugging an EV in all the time.
 
The supercharger network had me convinced to buy a Model 3. But after more than a YEAR without them even selling ONE car at the base price, I gave up waiting. I decided I will keep my gas burning Kia Soul for long trips, and get the Kia Niro or Hyundai EV for my daily commuting. I put 80-$100 in gas in my car every week, commuting 50 miles EACH WAY daily. An electric vehicle will almost pay for itself, and I am tired of waiting for Tesla to get their shit together.
 
nutzo said:
Why would I buy a tiny electric car (with no spare tire), when I can buy a nice mid-sized hybrid or ice for 25%-30% less, and never have to worry about the limited range?

Especially since the high electricity costs here in Southern California make the cost per mile of an EV about the same as a Hybrid.

It's easier to take 5 minutes once a month to fill my hybrid, than plugging an EV in all the time.
Click to expand...

If you are filling a hybrid once a month, you aren't the target audience.
 
kledar586 said:
An acquaintance of an acquaintance had an i3, never sat inside myself but the exterior is pretty fugly up close
Click to expand...

I disagree. One of my dealers pulled up in one the other day, I LOVED the interior. Lots of real wood, minimal instruments (LCD panels).
 
haste. said:
Honestly - this could be Tesla's saving grace... The infrastructure is there, charge for it (competing orgs). Gas stations make almost zero money off selling gasoline, it goes to the producer. Tesla could make a fortune for having the foresight to invest and take losses on all of the charging stations. Bezos isn't doing to bad these days and he made a fairly similar move.
Click to expand...
Yes they should license it out or give it to them for free, and standardize the charging stations. If they don't it is going to be stupid quickly as we are going to get to the argument of my Ford can only be fueled with Ford "gas" bullshit. Which the car companies will LOVE. This will kill EV quicker than anything.
 
Azrak said:
Failure to have compatible charging stations between manufacturers is a stupid, short-sighted decision that will not help EV adoption, only hinder it.
Charging stations need to be independent of the manufacturer, just like existing gas stations. For example, I'm fairly certain my local Cumberland Farms station is not associated with nor owned by Ford, GM, Toyota or any other car manufacturer, yet the station can fill the tank of any car that pulls up to a pump.
Click to expand...

All charging stations with the EXCEPTION of Tesla's have industry standard charging.
 
jnemesh said:
All charging stations with the EXCEPTION of Tesla's have industry standard charging.
Click to expand...

Except telsa opened the patents for their charging tech 4 years ago, giving other manufacturers plenty of time to develop against that tech so they can all move towards a standard. Instead it looks like they decided to go the apple route, ignore any existing standards and push out their own proprietary shit.
https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/26/t...-sustainability-for-transport-and-for-itself/


So do tell, what else is tesla supposed to do in this case? Pay other companies to use their standards?......
 
I just bought a new chevy bolt last week, my net cost after rebates and taxes is 26k, about the same as my wife's crv, I did get a killer deal on a new model sitting on a lot for a year though, dealership took a bath to get it off their books. They sold 2 in the last year and a half.
 
Ranma said:
Yes they should license it out or give it to them for free, and standardize the charging stations. If they don't it is going to be stupid quickly as we are going to get to the argument of my Ford can only be fueled with Ford "gas" bullshit. Which the car companies will LOVE. This will kill EV quicker than anything.
Click to expand...
Not the auto industry, they have all invested heavily in EV... oil and big business.
 
nutzo said:
Why would I buy a tiny electric car (with no spare tire), when I can buy a nice mid-sized hybrid or ice for 25%-30% less, and never have to worry about the limited range?

Especially since the high electricity costs here in Southern California make the cost per mile of an EV about the same as a Hybrid.

It's easier to take 5 minutes once a month to fill my hybrid, than plugging an EV in all the time.
Click to expand...
Because of ideology? You've made it evident over the last year and half or so. Then get a hybrid, that's not the point of my post. My point was that the entry into EV isn't any different, as you point out, a hybrid (still an ICE and your numbers are off, 25-28k for a leaf), and the infrastructure is being laid out.

My cousin's P90D gets further on a charge than my MKZ does anyday. Plus with infrastructure growing daily due to this company... That's my point. I know you don't want to lose ICE but it's likely coming.
 
Don't forget that Telsa and affiliates (e.g. Solar City) are electricity and electrical equipment companies -- as well as the primary investors. The car itself is a bait and switch to provide a means to charge 2x the local price for kwh. It took a while for the oil industry to realize how fast the returns are on this type of investment and are just catching up now.
 
Chaos Machine said:
I just bought a new chevy bolt last week, my net cost after rebates and taxes is 26k, about the same as my wife's crv, I did get a killer deal on a new model sitting on a lot for a year though, dealership took a bath to get it off their books. They sold 2 in the last year and a half.
Click to expand...

Most dont want to spend $32k for something that comes with seat and interior out of a cobalt.

Yes i know EV's are more expensive, but please people, stop taking $15k base model cars, slapping ev stuff in them, and charging(pun) $35-55k. Kia soul, $15k, kia soul EV $20k, people could swing that.
 
Of the ones coming, the Porsche is the most intriguing.

But here's what's missing: the charging network. CCS is not widely deployed. Like the other EV folks the Germans launch is half-assed. But the cars look great.

Disclosure: I own a Model S100D.
 
nightanole said:
Most dont want to spend $32k for something that comes with seat and interior out of a cobalt.

Yes i know EV's are more expensive, but please people, stop taking $15k base model cars, slapping ev stuff in them, and charging(pun) $35-55k. Kia soul, $15k, kia soul EV $20k, people could swing that.
Click to expand...

They also don't want to sell them since you won't be coming in for service, which is where they make their money. A normal dealer has ZERO incentive to move EVs. Plus, most dealers a clueless about them.

Disclosure: I own a Model S100D.
 
BSmith said:
If Tesla does not make ther charging stations available to all makes, then they are driving a stake into the heart of the entire EV industry.

This could get entertaining.
Click to expand...

Any and all car makers can join Tesla charging standard, they choose not to wanting instead to offer their own standards (which is idiotic)

https://www.autovistagroup.com/news...ning-its-supercharger-network-other-carmakers

https://electrek.co/2017/06/19/tesla-supercharger-sharing-automakers/


There are also adapters

https://insideevs.com/charging-a-bolt-ev-at-a-tesla-destination-station-sure-you-can/


People can nay say all they want about EVs... they'll just sound like horses ;)
 
Last edited:
haste. said:
That's my point. I know you don't want to lose ICE but it's likely coming.
Click to expand...

If they want my ICE, they'll have to pry it from my cold dead fingers :eek:

I'm getting close to retirement age, and I doubt I'll be driving as much once I've retired.
Considering the low miles I have on my current car, and how long I tend to keep them, I'll probably only buy 1 or 2 more.
Doubt either will be an electric unless it's a golf cart to drive around a retirement community :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top