Tesla Disputes NY Times Article With Data Logs

BoogerBomb said:
People expecting batteries to get good enough to charge in a couple of minutes are retards. We are decades away from that I would say. What we need is better capacity to negate the time to charge which is still a decade away I believe. There is still too much R&D and testing to do to get batteries to last a full 24 hours at 100 mph like people expect.
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Couple of minutes is impossible. A 2200mah battery discharging in 10 seconds is called a fireball, charging it in 10 seconds is called a grenade. The amount of power that will have to go through your powercord to charge your car battery that big at the same speed as a gasoline being poured into a fuel tank would melt it. We'll need room temperature superconductors to handle that.
 
Sly said:
Couple of minutes is impossible. A 2200mah battery discharging in 10 seconds is called a fireball, charging it in 10 seconds is called a grenade. The amount of power that will have to go through your powercord to charge your car battery that big at the same speed as a gasoline being poured into a fuel tank would melt it. We'll need room temperature superconductors to handle that.
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i can charge a 6 Cell 3000mAp lipo in 10 to 15 min
if i wanted i can charge 6, 6Cell 3000mAh packs in ~25min
eh a 2200mAh pack in 10 is posable but unlikely as its internal resistance will be limiting factor

i use 2 of the 6 cell packs in series for 12 cell in one of my RC helis and i get 5 min out of it
 
Impressive how much power these things pack don't they? The RC guys are probably the most experienced when comparing the amount of energy inside a liquid fuel and an electric battery.

To charge a 2200 mah battery in 1 hour, you need 2.2amps. To charge it in half an hour, you need 4.4 amps. A 450 sized helicopter that flies that uses an 11.1v 2200mah battery in five minutes would be using 300watts. A 12 cell 3000mah pack in series would be 44.4v would be using 1.6kilowatts! Get an equivalent sized nitro heli, and the amount of fuel it uses in five minutes is the equivalent of 1.6kw mechanical output.

Take the amount of time it takes to pour that much fuel back into the gas tank, and try to set your charger to pump enough amps back into the 6cell packs in the same amount of time. None of my chargers can go that high so i honestly don't know what will happen, but i'm guessing it will involve an explosion :p
 
Sly said:
Impressive how much power these things pack don't they? The RC guys are probably the most experienced when comparing the amount of energy inside a liquid fuel and an electric battery.

To charge a 2200 mah battery in 1 hour, you need 2.2amps. To charge it in half an hour, you need 4.4 amps. A 450 sized helicopter that flies that uses an 11.1v 2200mah battery in five minutes would be using 300watts. A 12 cell 3000mah pack in series would be 44.4v would be using 1.6kilowatts! Get an equivalent sized nitro heli, and the amount of fuel it uses in five minutes is the equivalent of 1.6kw mechanical output.

Take the amount of time it takes to pour that much fuel back into the gas tank, and try to set your charger to pump enough amps back into the 6cell packs in the same amount of time. None of my chargers can go that high so i honestly don't know what will happen, but i'm guessing it will involve an explosion :p
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more my 600 size heli peaks at 4200watts and is a sustained 3600watts
 
bah lack of edit
my charger tops out a 40amps with a 24v input
and i can do up to six packs at once and have 6 packs ready to go at the field
that gives me 3 flights
i can charge 2 packs at 5C rate but normally i dont charge faster then 4C and most of the time 3C
so 18amps so a the packs charge in about 15min
i get 5 or 6 min on a flight + a 2 min to walk out and 2 min to walk back thats around 10 min total for a flight
between that and talking with the guys at the field and flying my other helis i never have to wait for pack to charge :D
 
But don't forger the faster you want to charge a LiPo, it hurts the performance of the battery in a % every time you do it. Yeah they are great for pulling some serious Amperage, but have tendencies to like to bloat with gases if you discharge or charge too fast.
 
Viper16 said:
But don't forger the faster you want to charge a LiPo, it hurts the performance of the battery in a % every time you do it. Yeah they are great for pulling some serious Amperage, but have tendencies to like to bloat with gases if you discharge or charge too fast.
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thats not true any more modern lipos 2 and 3 even up to 5C charge rates dont hurt it at all
 
Has anyone taken the NYT seriously since the Jayson Blair scandal? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayson_Blair

The National Enquirer is now a better paper than the NYT. The Enquirer was the one who broke the John Edwards scandal, while the NYT wouldn't even investigate it. NYT is just a left wing propaganda rag.
 
Elios said:
thats not true any more modern lipos 2 and 3 even up to 5C charge rates dont hurt it at all
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That's for high performance packs tho. They can charge at 5c and output at 30c. I think the tesla battery is only rated to output at 1.5c, the superchargers are just typical 1c. Still with a battery that big, that's still a lot of power. If it was charging at 5c, it would probably rival that of a small office building
 
Sly said:
That's for high performance packs tho. They can charge at 5c and output at 30c. I think the tesla battery is only rated to output at 1.5c, the superchargers are just typical 1c. Still with a battery that big, that's still a lot of power. If it was charging at 5c, it would probably rival that of a small office building
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i think the charger limits are more an issue with a pack the size of whats in the Tesla cars
i dont know how many cells they run in series but its an 85Ah pack and even the crapiest of lipos can do 10C so your looking at 850amp draw rate and a 85Amp charge rate but at what voltage i dont know
i can do 40amps at up to 8S or 33.6v and that takes 1336watts at 30v to pull off
there is a new charger out that can do 60amps at 10S 47v but it needs to run off 36v to do so
and uses almost 2kw if your using a PSU meaning it would need to be run off 240v AC

the Tesla Superchargers run off 480v AC im sure some here could do that math since it charges the care in 1 hour thats 1C rate so it has to be charging at 85amps

id love to know more about how there packs are setup
 
Elios said:
id love to know more about how there packs are setup
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Same here. Information exists on the roadster's pack architecture, but the story is different for the Model S. As everything about the pack configurations is a company trade secret.
 
EngrChris said:
Same here. Information exists on the roadster's pack architecture, but the story is different for the Model S. As everything about the pack configurations is a company trade secret.
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is there data on what voltage the motors are running on?
 
did some digging looks like its 100S34P is my best guess as to the pack setup which is INSANE
that gives a full charge of 420v and 85Ah pulling 1kw or more from pack would be nothing for it
 
Elios said:
so story gets better
CNN also did the trip in only 13 hours lol not the 2 days it took the guy from the NYT
http://jalopnik.com/cnn-gets-to-boston-in-a-tesla-model-s-after-a-much-warm-214503842
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Yeah, that's the whole point though, wasn't it though? Stuff happened to the car's reported range sitting overnight. Not that anything happened to the battery's charge, but the onboard computer thought there was and if the onboard computer thinks you're out of charge, you are coming to a stop whether you have another 40 miles in there or not.
 
Chimel said:
What failures and lies? Everything NYT's Broder reported is backed up by Tesla's logs.

The only fail really is the first supercharge at Milford, which was not a full charge, and was followed by an overnight stop without plugging in the car, and was further followed by a charge up to 32 miles of range when the distance back to Milford was over 50 miles, so it was making sure never to be able to reach Milford. Broder has no excuse for the first incomplete Milford supercharge, since he had already experienced the discrepancy between the displayed range and actual mileage, so he shouldn't have taken any chance. Unless the car itself displayed a "charge complete" signal, in which case it's Tesla's fault. Let's wait for Broder's answer.

Otherwise most of what Tesla's CEO says is not supported by the evidence in the logs he published himself.

As for the locked parking brake, it shows a very bad design from Tesla, to be expected from such a new manufacturer. I'm sure they'll learn from it and will fix the problem in later models, no big issue, Tesla cars are still amazing in many regards. In any case, Broder was right to report the issue.

I have been following the issue since yesterday, I find it fun. Even posted on Tesla's site, but the comments are moderated and apparently never published. Or maybe just delayed, I'll check again later.
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Are you kidding me? Did you read the article or did you just skim in order to try to quell the what I can only assume you see as 'reactionary' masses.
 
jpm100 said:
Yeah, that's the whole point though, wasn't it though? Stuff happened to the car's reported range sitting overnight. Not that anything happened to the battery's charge, but the onboard computer thought there was and if the onboard computer thinks you're out of charge, you are coming to a stop whether you have another 40 miles in there or not.
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the guy from the NYT repeatedly did not charge to full when he had the chance and did not plug the car in over night

this is less the failure of the car then the user
i use lipos weekly so maybe im not an avg user in this case but i know that cold will kill the packs and i would kept the car plugged in and charging at every chance

on the last leg he also only charged enough to get to the end point this is as dumb as doing the same with a gas powered car always put extra in
 
Elios said:
the guy from the NYT repeatedly did not charge to full when he had the chance and did not plug the car in over night

this is less the failure of the car then the user
i use lipos weekly so maybe im not an avg user in this case but i know that cold will kill the packs and i would kept the car plugged in and charging at every chance

on the last leg he also only charged enough to get to the end point this is as dumb as doing the same with a gas powered car always put extra in
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That's not the point. It wasn't max range contest. If was failure of the system to live up to the originally reported range. Part of which may have been his driving. But reportedly it was a overnight loss of mileage. The implication is the computer hiccuped and didn't relearn the correct charge before it turned the car off for what it thought was a low charge.
 
Ducman69 said:
The Top Gear people don't care about cars whatsoever, they are entertainers and the shows purpose and focus is on ratings to make MONEY.
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lol wat?

do you know what the BBC is?
 
jpm100 said:
That's not the point. It wasn't max range contest. If was failure of the system to live up to the originally reported range. Part of which may have been his driving. But reportedly it was a overnight loss of mileage. The implication is the computer hiccuped and didn't relearn the correct charge before it turned the car off for what it thought was a low charge.
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NO the story was about Tesla's new Supercharger stations
and the writer failed to use them as designed
CNN proved this
 
Drives car in manner counter to instruction, doesn't charge it, writes sloppy article, crushed by facts/data in rebuttal.

Broder should be ashamed of himself. Electric/hybrid vehicles have a difficult enough job as it is gaining market penetration without hatchet jobs like his.
 
Passenger57 said:
Drives car in manner counter to instruction, doesn't charge it, writes sloppy article, crushed by facts/data in rebuttal.

Broder should be ashamed of himself. Electric/hybrid vehicles have a difficult enough job as it is gaining market penetration without hatchet jobs like his.
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You said it all really. The problem is that there is absolutely 0 accountability in the news industry. You can make up shit and as long as you don't piss off the 'wrong guys' then your employer will just cover your ass (as has been demonstrated here) and you can continue spouting non-truths. Honestly I could do a better job writing half the articles out there. I am thankful that we have the internet now where we can tear drivel like this to pieces.
 
FLECOM said:
lol wat?

do you know what the BBC is?
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A government tv station paid by tax payers money? Clarkson and his Co host are in fact civil employees:p

Curiously, since everyone with a television set pays them, do they have commercials?
 
Paradoxine said:
The problem is that there is absolutely 0 accountability in the news industry. You can make up shit and as long as you don't piss off the 'wrong guys' then your employer will just cover your ass (as has been demonstrated here) and you can continue spouting non-truths.
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I wouldn't say zero accountability I believe Lance Armstrong successfully won a 1+ million settlement from a UK news source for slandering him for using performance enhancing drugs, irony is now they're looking right back at him and asking for their money back.
 
well this is fun
7 Tesla owners are doing the same test drive as well this week end
https://twitter.com/TeslaRoadTrip

air temps are very close to the same as the NYT drive low 30s to 20s tonight
should put end to any debate over the CNN drive getting better mileage do to warmer temps
 
Not together i hope. How many cars can one station handle?
 
my guess is there using different charging stations and alternating where people are charging along the rout
if nothing else itll give the network a work out
 
One of them posted a video of his approach to the supercharger in Milford. The off ramp practically dumps right into them lol.
 
lol they all got to CT with mileage to spare EVEN WITH THE 34 to 25 deg temps

keeps looking worse for the NYT
 
Sly said:
A government tv station paid by tax payers money? Clarkson and his Co host are in fact civil employees:p

Curiously, since everyone with a television set pays them, do they have commercials?
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At least in the F1 races they don't. BBC has some amazing programming, though. Top Gear is bullshit imo.
 
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