Temperatures drop 12C when I remove side from case -- why?

[athenian200]

I've been thinking of OCing my 2600k, but I'm concerned about temperatures when the side is on the case. I could just leave it off (although that does leave the machine more vulnerable to dust/dirt), but I'm not sure if this indicates a bigger thermal issue with my whole setup.

Basically, with the side on the case, I idle at 46-48C. If I take it off, I idle at 34-36C.

I also ran a burn-in benchmark (Linpack) with the side off the case, and it got the CPU up to 64C. I'm a little afraid to try that same test with the side on the case, but I'm guessing it would hit around 76C.

So, given that scenario, I don't think I can OC my processor very much, if at all. It would probably hit the mid-80s. At least not unless I want to leave the side off the case. So, is this happening because my case is poorly designed, or is it just normal for people who OC to leave the side off their case to get better temperatures?

Also, I'm having trouble understanding why this would improve temperatures. Opening a window doesn't cool a room better when you have the air conditioner running, so why would taking the side off the case help?

 

[Zepher]

you are not expelling enough heat with the sides on.

 

[Cerulean]

Sounds like you're not providing enough air flow into the heart of your chassis, or as above poster mentions -- pushing air out.

You want to think in terms of Point A to Point B windtunnel. Seal up all the holes from Point A (intake port) to Point B (exhaust port) so that no air escapes on its way to the exit.

 

[cyclone3d]

What case do you have?

Pics?

 

[athenian200]

What case do you have?

Pics?

It's an OEM case that was originally used for some PC my father got me from Velocity Micro. Normally when I buy a case I go really cheap, but this one had three built-in and looked somewhat high quality, so I wanted to keep it. Both side panels come off, although I don't show the other side off because there's really nothing important back there. It also has wheels.

Keep in mind that I had to take these pictures with a DSi camera and transfer them over via SD card on my laptop, because I can't access the CF cards used on my real digital camera ATM. The people at Fry's couldn't figure out how to hook up my card reader when they built my computer, so now I have to find a solution. :/

This is the front of the machine. The grill you see with the blue LED, actually has two fans behind it which seem to be sucking in air from the front, but they're not blowing very hard on the other side at all.

This is the back of the machine. Here you can see that there's another fan highlighted by blue LEDs, and this one blows out of the back. It's very strong.

Here you can see the two fans I mentioned earlier. They're in front of the hard drive cage, which is turned sideways because the motherboard couldn't reach the mounting plate unless it was taken out and re-oriented it that way (though there is enough space for an EATX board on the plate itself, it couldn't actually go IN there because the drive cage was blocking it). I also had trouble getting SATA cables to reach the motherboard with the connectors facing the back of the case, so that's why it's still like that.

These two pictures are an overview of the entire case. You can see both fans, and a huge mess of PSU cables. I'm a bit concerned about the PSU cables obstructing airflow, but I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about that. A wire from each bundle of cables is used for SOMETHING, meaning it wouldn't be that easy to just toss a few bundles of cables behind the motherboard plate without it taking some the cables I need with it.

I didn't set it up this way in the first place, and I'm really not sure what the exact problem is, or how to fix it. These pictures aren't the highest quality, but I hope they help you see the problem. Thanks in advance if you can help.

 

[cyclone3d]

1. Are the front fans being used as intake or exhaust fans? They should be intake.

2. It looks like the rear ehaust fan and the CPU fan are fighting against each other. The CPU fan should be blowing from the front of the cooler so the hot air is exhausted out the back of the case.

3. Those cables are definitelt part of the problem.

4. Adding a blow hole and another 120mm exhaust fan to the top of the case should help drop temps quite a bit.

Short of taking care of those things, you really need a new case.

 

[athenian200]

1. Are the front fans being used as intake or exhaust fans? They should be intake.

Yes, I believe they are intake.

2. It looks like the rear ehaust fan and the CPU fan are fighting against each other. The CPU fan should be blowing from the front of the cooler so the hot air is exhausted out the back of the case.

I was reading the documentation for the cooler they picked out (a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO). I could move the cooler's fan to the other side, so it faces the intake fans instead, and it wouldn't fight the exhaust fan anymore.

3. Those cables are definitelt part of the problem.

That's one thing I have no idea how to fix. Any ideas?

4. Adding a blow hole and another 120mm exhaust fan to the top of the case should help drop temps quite a bit.

I've been thinking I needed another fan, but what's a blowhole? Do I need to cut a hole in the top of the case to put the fan in? Like I saw on those gaming cases? I think I could do that.

Short of taking care of those things, you really need a new case.

Hmm... incidentally, I do have a new case coming, but I was planning to rebuild an old LGA775 computer with it. It's an Antec Nine Hundred Two, B-stock. I picked it up for around $51.

I was going to rebuild an old computer (Q6600) into that case, since I had the components laying around and I don't care if I mess up, though I've put that on hold due to not having one of the spare parts I thought I had.

The thing is, I'm not terribly confident about my ability to move an expensive motherboard and CPU from one case to another, and hook up all the headers, etc. Plus, I just paid to have it installed in THIS case. I'm going to look pretty stupid if I have to take it back up there and tell them to install it in a new case, plus I'll be out twice the money...

Also, I'm not sure if the new case would actually work better than my current one. I just made a point to get one with at least three case fans from a reputable company.

Honestly, it's very obvious to me at this point, that I should have just gotten a new case, hard drives, and PSU for my Sandy Bridge build, and left my old computer alone rather than try to scavenge parts. If that new case that's coming is any good, maybe I should try to move it anyway... if I read the manuals carefully, pay attention to how things are hooked up, and watch some videos, maybe I'll avoid frying it. Just not sure if it's worth it... LOL.

 

[MrCaffeineX]

Do you have someone that is knowledgeable in the area of PC assembly that can help walk you through putting it together? I have actually done it for customers of mine on more than one occasion. It is in our nature to learn by doing, so if you can get someone to assist you in putting it together, there is an opportunity to learn a new skill.

On another note, if you paid Fry's to assemble this PC for you and they failed to place the CPU fan properly, I would say they should be responsible, at no additional cost to you, to relocate the fan for you, assuming that you do not wish to relocate it yourself. I'm no physicist, but the basic information on push-pull fan configurations is all over the internet. I would hope that even if they fail at thermo-dynamics, they could at least have Googled how to install the fan properly...

Though the pictures are somewhat difficult to make out with clarity, that case looks similar to some Lian Li cases that I have used in several builds. I wonder if Velocity Micro was using a Lian Li case as the basis for their design. Is it made out of aluminum?

 

[sirmonkey1985]

all you have to do is unclip the fan, take it off and clip the fan on the other side so its blowing air through the heatsink to the back fan. should take you about 30 seconds tops. the fan comes off very easily.

btw use that antec 900 case with your current system.. its insanely better then the current one you are using.. if you have questions on how to disassemble/assemble the system ask in this thread or hell you can pm me and i'll walk you through it. its a lot simpler then you might think. the most important tip i can give you though is make sure you are wearing shoes when you build the system and if you are moving around make sure you tap the metal part of the case to discharge any static electricity. if you do that the odds of frying anything are pretty slim.

 

[athenian200]

Do you have someone that is knowledgeable in the area of PC assembly that can help walk you through putting it together? I have actually done it for customers of mine on more than one occasion. It is in our nature to learn by doing, so if you can get someone to assist you in putting it together, there is an opportunity to learn a new skill.

Most of the people around me know less than I do, and think I'm crazy for opening up a computer at all. I'm actually pretty good with computers; I can swap out power supplies, hard drives, optical drives, video cards, RAM, things like that. On older motherboards, I was even able to install fans on the CPU, but the LGA 1155 fans won't seem to seat properly. The thing I've had the worst luck with is installing a motherboard in a case, though.

My primary strength when it comes to computers is in software, configuration, and programming. I'm a little uncomfortable mucking about with hardware physically, though I do have a very good understanding of what hardware can do, and at least have a theoretical understanding of the interface standards, the physics involved, etc.

On another note, if you paid Fry's to assemble this PC for you and they failed to place the CPU fan properly, I would say they should be responsible, at no additional cost to you, to relocate the fan for you, assuming that you do not wish to relocate it yourself. I'm no physicist, but the basic information on push-pull fan configurations is all over the internet. I would hope that even if they fail at thermo-dynamics, they could at least have Googled how to install the fan properly...

They originally didn't even want to finish hooking it up, they wanted to just install the motherboard, CPU fan, etc, so it would POST and have me put all the headers in myself, fix the case fans, etc. I had to yell at them to do that too.

I think I can move the fan myself, the only thing that makes me anxious is the idea of actually moving the motherboard, or trying to remove/remount the heatsink.

Though the pictures are somewhat difficult to make out with clarity, that case looks similar to some Lian Li cases that I have used in several builds. I wonder if Velocity Micro was using a Lian Li case as the basis for their design. Is it made out of aluminum?

I think it might be. I had always assumed it was made of stainless steel, but when you asked me that just now, I took a magnet and tested it (far away from the electrical components)... the magnet did not stick to the case material itself, though it did stick to the screws and grills. I know that aluminum isn't magnetic, and that steel usually is, so that means the likelihood of the case being aluminum is very high. Also, the three case fans in the machine are all Lian Li models.

all you have to do is unclip the fan, take it off and clip the fan on the other side so its blowing air through the heatsink to the back fan. should take you about 30 seconds tops. the fan comes off very easily.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

btw use that antec 900 case with your current system.. its insanely better then the current one you are using.. if you have questions on how to disassemble/assemble the system ask in this thread or hell you can pm me and i'll walk you through it. its a lot simpler then you might think. the most important tip i can give you though is make sure you are wearing shoes when you build the system and if you are moving around make sure you tap the metal part of the case to discharge any static electricity. if you do that the odds of frying anything are pretty slim.

Well, I'm definitely considering it now. The thing is, it's an ASUS MAXIMUS IV Extreme that I got a $200 deal on, and an Intel i7 2600k that I got a $250 deal on, If those break, I can't afford to replace them. I usually don't use such expensive components, and I'll probably never have anything that nice again if I break these. But, if they're going to be handicapped so much in my current case that they'll never live up to their potential, I guess I might as well not have them anyway.