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[H]ard|Gawd
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I could not imagine having an iphone while i was in high school....absolutely nothing would get done.
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Tech Turns Teens Into Cheaters
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Bingo! This cheating crap may work in high school, but when you get to the real world/big leagues it doesn't last a second. Unfortunately, teachers have their hands tied with laws, parents who think their kids shit ice cream cones, and administrations with no balls. Sometimes, they just stop caring and while unfortunate, it's understandable. So these kids can laugh it up all through high school and I guess it's fine if they want a career in food services or house keeping. However, going to college is a privilege, a very costly one, and that crap just doesn't happen at all. Same thing when they get a job with some responsibility; people will soon figure out that this kid who cheated his/her way through school doesn't know shit and it will catch up with him/her.
Very true, thankfully the real world is still there to kick most of them in the ass.
Calculators, you gotta cheat with the calculators. Take those fancy Texas Instrument graphing calculaters, feed in all sorts of formulas you are supposed to remember. Use the wire or wireless link to other calculators to text or share with you buddies. This was all the rage when I was in highschool and college.
i had to use turnitin.com as well, but i much preferred the method one of my favorite professors took. rather than creating more work for everyone by using something like turnitin.com, he creating incredibly bizarre essay prompts (my term paper for Intro to Buddhism answered the question, Which would a Buddha prefer, animated cartoons or reality TV?). the idea was that the prompt was so unusual, it was unlikely anyone would find a paper on the particular subject.
of course every discipline is different. essays aren't the usual method of examination in the physical and biological sciences, and even in the social sciences, humanities and arts, there's only so much leeway for unusual essay prompts and the like.
there's certainly validity in this statement, but the problem doesn't merely occur on an individual basis. there are antecedent causes of this problem in our societal structure, not only individual cases of bad parenting and teaching.
after i graduated, i worked as an administrator in a general ed program for about 2 years; among other things, i conducted student learning and satisfaction surveys. the overwhelming reaction students had to the core curriculum was that it's a waste of time. these were primarily students intending to be doctors and engineers, and the curriculum was primarily composed of topics in the social sciences.
my point is that, here in the US at least, higher education is presented to young people as a means to economic success , and that is the primary motivation behind many students' attendance. historically, the philosophical goal behind higher education was intellectual enlightenment, not economic success.
i suspect if we had a more detailed study, things would look different. if we were to compare rates of cheating in classes for students' majors vs. general ed classes, i suspect we'd see cheating is a much more significant problem in classes students are "forced" to take.
of course, i don't see a simple solution to the problem. we can punish cheaters more severely of course, but there's something to be said for mitigating the motivation to cheat.
of course every discipline is different. essays aren't the usual method of examination in the physical and biological sciences, and even in the social sciences, humanities and arts, there's only so much leeway for unusual essay prompts and the like.
there's certainly validity in this statement, but the problem doesn't merely occur on an individual basis. there are antecedent causes of this problem in our societal structure, not only individual cases of bad parenting and teaching.
after i graduated, i worked as an administrator in a general ed program for about 2 years; among other things, i conducted student learning and satisfaction surveys. the overwhelming reaction students had to the core curriculum was that it's a waste of time. these were primarily students intending to be doctors and engineers, and the curriculum was primarily composed of topics in the social sciences.
my point is that, here in the US at least, higher education is presented to young people as a means to economic success , and that is the primary motivation behind many students' attendance. historically, the philosophical goal behind higher education was intellectual enlightenment, not economic success.
i suspect if we had a more detailed study, things would look different. if we were to compare rates of cheating in classes for students' majors vs. general ed classes, i suspect we'd see cheating is a much more significant problem in classes students are "forced" to take.
of course, i don't see a simple solution to the problem. we can punish cheaters more severely of course, but there's something to be said for mitigating the motivation to cheat.
When I was in school, you were forced to erase your calculator's memory when a TA came to inspect it (yes, each calculator was individually inspected before the exam). For larger classes, all personal items were to be kept in the front of the classroom. All you were allowed was a writing instrument, a calculator (if allowed) and your school/state ID.
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Yeah, this was common when I was in school too. But sometimes they wouldn't let us even use our Ti's. I've never seen calculators that had any sort of wireless link built into them, lol. I don't see how the teachers wouldn't catch onto that, hah. Good stuff though..
If you meant to quote me then I'm confused. I meant poor as in that the teachers are not doing their jobs enforcing punishment and/or are not thorough in reviewing papers to ensure such activity does not take place.
I Aced trig in high school without learning crap because calculators were allowed. Then there were a couple of regional competition tests that I won1st place awards on because apparently I was the only one who realized to do stuff like just plug the multiple choice options into the original equation and viola.
If your college courses relied on you memorizing formulas then I would have immediately switched schools.
i understood what you were saying, and i agree that cheating should be strictly punished. however, doing that could paradoxically create a more severe cheating problem. take the war on drugs as an example. at many turns over the last several decades, we've tried to address the drug problem in the US by creating more strict punishments and enforcement. this has actually made the drug problem more severe, because the street price of illicit drugs is largely determined by the risk of dealing them. stricter penalties creates more profitable drugs, which creates more incentive to deal them.
in education, weeding out more cheaters with more severe penalties and enforcement would create a higher premium on degrees of any particular level, which would in turn create more incentive to get them, and more incentive to cheat to get them. i'm mainly focusing on higher education at this point because high school diplomas are nearly worthless in today's world.
as i said, i don't see an easy solution. in my mind, cheating is absolutely intolerable. i worked very hard on my degree, and the idea that others may be scheming their way through theirs offends me. but it's my belief that people are doing this because they know that without college degrees, they don't stand a very good chance of even modest success our economy (during the good times and bad).
i can't really criticize people for disliking their general ed classes, either; i know i did the bare minimum to get through many of my gen ed classes. i personall think it's a good thing that our society's leaders, professionals, etc., are expected to achieve a well-rounded education, and i don't really want to advocate a system where doctors only train in medicine, lawyers only train in law, etc. it does seem to me, however, that that's the kind of system most of the kids want, and i think the reason is because as a society, we tend to place so much emphasis on economic success that we fail to instill in our children the same passion for morality, enlightenment, and awareness -- and that's not something that we can really address in the classroom very effectively. even lone families aren't a solid wall against our culture, which largely values economic success above all other goals.
KillaChaos
Limp Gawd
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This is already standard policy in many schools. In my high school, plagiarism would mean expulsion.
But teachers are not going to check every essay if it was written by Johnny Jones or he got it from some obscure website.
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The 2 main problems with using a jammer (assuming you can even get one, which not even a government/public school can ever hope to do) is that it indiscriminately blocks all cell signal within a given radius, this radius can fluctuate depending on a the atmospheric conditions Since it indiscriminately blocks all signal, in the case of an emergency there's no way of communicating over that network. Granted the landlines still work, but if most schools are like my high school, if something goes wrong in a classroom, theres only an intercom, not a land line out of each room.
The other big problem would be the huge cost of the jammer. You need to pay for the device and a pretty huge antenna to get any sort of coverage area. With school's funds being the way they are (my public high school couldnt afford new books) theres no way they can afford a cell jammer or other signal jamming tech (copper mesh faraday cage).
I am definataly not saying thata phones aren't a problem, I just disagaree with the whole "block everything" approach. I am all for teacher taking away any visible phones and doleing out punishments for having them out, especially during a test.
but you dont have too if they copy/paste and enitre essay, you should be able to tell if the essay was written with whatever essay question given in mind
no way any decent essay prompt should have something available online that matches it perfectly
meh, maybe if teachers didn't require students to research and write papers on retarded subjects then people wouldn't cheat or resort to plagiarism. Seriously we need to revamp the curriculum of today's academic systems cause Shakespeare and book reports on global warming are a waste of time.
Today's education is all about getting ahead in this world and how the fuck do literature, history, civics, etc help you find a job, or give you a skill to pay your bills when you get older?
Schools should branch out more at a younger age so kids find out what they like to do early on and are able to develop those skills. I would have rather have kids learning skills and things that actually matter in life like how to do taxes or properly manage finances, programming, carpentry etc than learning the useless crap that I had learn growing up and completely forgot the second summer vacation rolled around.
Today's education is all about getting ahead in this world and how the fuck do literature, history, civics, etc help you find a job, or give you a skill to pay your bills when you get older?
Schools should branch out more at a younger age so kids find out what they like to do early on and are able to develop those skills. I would have rather have kids learning skills and things that actually matter in life like how to do taxes or properly manage finances, programming, carpentry etc than learning the useless crap that I had learn growing up and completely forgot the second summer vacation rolled around.
Blocking cell signals is just plain stupid. Don't allow students to pull out their cells in class to begin with. Besides, the problem is cheating, not cell phones in class. The behavior needs to be addressed, not the method of that behavior. There are any number of ways to cheat. My mom used to be a teacher, and caught all kinds of ways students would cheat.
My favorite was the students that put two sheets of paper together and wrote notes on the top page with enough force to make an impression on the bottom page. The page with the imprinted notes was used as a cover sheet for the test. If the light through the window had not struck the imprinted cover sheet just right as she walked around the room, she might not have caught it.
Teachers need to police thier class and severely punish the offenders. Of course severe punishment is not allowed in this era of entitlement. Maybe one day we'll go from no child left behind to no child held back.
My favorite was the students that put two sheets of paper together and wrote notes on the top page with enough force to make an impression on the bottom page. The page with the imprinted notes was used as a cover sheet for the test. If the light through the window had not struck the imprinted cover sheet just right as she walked around the room, she might not have caught it.
Teachers need to police thier class and severely punish the offenders. Of course severe punishment is not allowed in this era of entitlement. Maybe one day we'll go from no child left behind to no child held back.
To me this reads as "I don't wanna!"
You think when you get that job you're going to enjoy every job that comes your way? Yeah, I couldn't stand some of the stuff I was made to write about but it taught me *how* to research and *how* to write papers. I eventually got a system down, became efficient at it and soon was able to write about anything they wanted me to and get a decent grade.
Yeah, I talk to people all the time that never bothered to study history or civics. They are the same people that don't seem to care when the government takes away our rights for the good of the people. These are the people that don't understand what's wrong with our supreme court using international precidents to make decisions vs. INTERPRETING THE CONSTITUTION. These people couldn't even tell how many articles are in the constitution, or what any particular article is about. They don't even know how many amendments there are or what each one says and why. They have no idea why any of our wars started or why we fought them. These people could not write a book with well formed thoughts, or express themselves very well because they didn't bother to pay attention in literature.
Why are papers on global warming a bad thing? It teaches children to pick a side and express why they belive it is an issue, or why it is a total fraud.
Should the system be revamped? Most certainly it should. Teaching our children to balance a check book, invest and save money is important. Having instruction in vocational subjects would be extremely beneficial.
The reason students cheat is irrelevant. Cheating is wrong and those that do so should be held accountable for their actions.
So, I agree and disagree with what you have said.
kent
2[H]4U
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Don't blame the parents. Mine never encouraged me to cheat, and I did in high school. Never in college though, knew it would be a waste of time with services like Turn-it-in
Hmm...reminds me of a documentary done by CBC or BBC, can't remember. It was about how cheating was rampant for Chinese high school entrance exams (where in order to go to a high school, you need top notch marks. Some of the questions made me go..."wtf?" and similarly to my physics professor).
The cheating itself was basically hiring people to sit in a white van or another inconspicuous vehicle and having the answers transmitted by means of receivers in one's ear (and sometimes the one in the ear is "weak" so it's connected to a "better" one in the shoe which is capable of transmitting information to/from the outside). Cameras were placed in either glasses, hair, and even someone's palate! Ya...I need to find that documentary again.
The cheating itself was basically hiring people to sit in a white van or another inconspicuous vehicle and having the answers transmitted by means of receivers in one's ear (and sometimes the one in the ear is "weak" so it's connected to a "better" one in the shoe which is capable of transmitting information to/from the outside). Cameras were placed in either glasses, hair, and even someone's palate! Ya...I need to find that documentary again.
Not surprising, but this is high school and not college/university. Cheating is a lot harder there, and there are real consequences for it. I've talked with professors of mine who estimate that around 10-20% of work is plagiarised, and that while they can't catch it all on their own, they do get most of it. It's a skill you develop.
In high school, I get the feeling that the teachers really don't care enough to do things to put a stop to cheating.
In high school, I get the feeling that the teachers really don't care enough to do things to put a stop to cheating.
You've got to be kidding. I don't think any would say that parents encourage their kids to cheat. The problem is that they don't instill the values in them that help them choose not to cheat. Every time I see a child that others say is "So well behaved", it is usually because the parens TAUGHT THAT CHILD HOW TO BEHAVE. It does not mean the child will never misbehave, or cheat. It does mean that they have been taught the value of doing the right thing.
Agreed, however if the CURRENT generation is cheating majorly via cell phone / electronic devices, then eliminating those will help reduce the capabilities of the current cheaters.
Personally, I feel there a few way to nip the problem in the bud. (for highschool anyways)
A) Have every parent sign cheating/plagiarism agreement on behalf of their child at the beginning of the year, and store that on file. That way if a student is caught cheating, the parent has already agreed to the consequences IN WRITING.
B) If a student is caught cheating, have him/her where a sign/shirt during school saying, "I thought I was smart, but I got caught cheating"
C) If a student is caught cheating, the student should be have to redo the same test/assignment with their parents present and watching them. If either parent or child fail to attend the re-schedule, the child receives a -100 points (yes, the ends up being less than a 0, 2nd time cheating equals failure of class)
For College cheating, easy. Use C for highschool and just make it worse. -200 points/percent for 1st time cheating on assignment, 2nd time failure of class, 3rd, time expulsion from college.
parents have no place in a college classroom, not in the US anyway - there's a little something called FERPA.
however, i believe the penalties for being caught cheating in most universities are more severe. getting caught once usually results in automatic failure of the class and academic probation for a year, getting caught a second (or sometimes third) time usually means expulsion.
but on the HS level, more parental involvement certainly wouldn't hurt.
thunderstruck!
[H]ard|Gawd
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Why do you need to find a "new way" to get an A?Didn't teach me
I just looked for new ways to get an A. Which I did find 90% of time.
Is the old way not cutting it for you?
I cheated in school only once. It was in 7th grade and I used a CD encyclopedia not the internet. The reason I never cheated again? I only got VG (sort of like a B in the USA) instead of my regular MVG (A) The teacher thought the text (taken directly from the encyclopedia) wasn't good enough for MVG, too dry he said.
TerraPhantm
Gawd
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When I was in highschool, the punishments for plagiarism were fairly strict. First offense is a 0 on the assignment, 2nd offense is a 0 for the semester, and 3rd offense is expulsion from the school. That kept most of us in line.
I will admit that I sometimes copied homework that was simply busy-work, typically calculus homework. I knew how to do the math and I always was near the top of my class as far as test grades went; I just wasn't always motivated to do busy work on concepts I've already mastered.
I will admit that I sometimes copied homework that was simply busy-work, typically calculus homework. I knew how to do the math and I always was near the top of my class as far as test grades went; I just wasn't always motivated to do busy work on concepts I've already mastered.
I don't think that cell phones are actually so much used to cheat, as stated. Usually phones and other devices are forbidden, especially if its some major test. The same should be true for minor ones also, but the observation isn't maybe the same.
Plagiarism has obviously been quite common, but in more upper grades and especially after HS, it shouldn't be as easily done and its better checked. I feel that copying others homework is probably really usual.
Plagiarism has obviously been quite common, but in more upper grades and especially after HS, it shouldn't be as easily done and its better checked. I feel that copying others homework is probably really usual.
Rockjay420
Gawd
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we had this in high school, none of the "nerds" did this, only the kids that were meant to fail public education. These are the kids who cause the most trouble, intentionally sidetrack teachers, and generally oppose exercising the muscle in between their ears. I really don't care that these kids are cheating, because when tests come around, they realize, they don't know how to preform the math, or don't have a clue wtf a predicate is. I am not saying these kids are stupid, or that they are any less of a human being, but public education isn't designed to educate the whole population, just most of them. So, some kids definitely fall through and cheat, and the internet is a vast cheating resource. Although, this doesn't mean the internet cant be used by the other 93% of students who are interested in the material and want to learn.
Why do you need to find a "new way" to get an A?
Is the old way not cutting it for you?
LOL!
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Looks like we're going to have to take away the internet from everyone and reserve it for those that can afford a premium of several hundred dollars per month to the thousands for DSL/Cell/Cable/Dialup/Satellite, etc.
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Why do you need to find a "new way" to get an A?
Is the old way not cutting it for you?
They might catch on.
I'm not sure why everyone insists on blaming the parents for bad behavior every time something is done by a minor.
My parents, my siblings, my friends parents, my community as a whole continuously instilled appropriate social values and always explained the consequences of immoral behavior, etc. I was fully aware of what was appropriate behavior and what was right and wrong, and what consequences were when I:
Cheated on tests (pretty rare, but there was an occassion or 2)
Had sex underage / before I was married
Drank underage
performed minor vandalisms.
I was not a bad kid. I am not proud of those moments, but in the course of 18 years, you are going to stumble every now and then. How the F would it have been my parent's fault if I had been caught cheating on a test. I knew what I was doing - they didn't. At no point in time did they ever hint that it would be ok to cheat. Answer that question you "its the parents fault" nazi's that show up every thread that relates to something someone underage does.
My parents, my siblings, my friends parents, my community as a whole continuously instilled appropriate social values and always explained the consequences of immoral behavior, etc. I was fully aware of what was appropriate behavior and what was right and wrong, and what consequences were when I:
Cheated on tests (pretty rare, but there was an occassion or 2)
Had sex underage / before I was married
Drank underage
performed minor vandalisms.
I was not a bad kid. I am not proud of those moments, but in the course of 18 years, you are going to stumble every now and then. How the F would it have been my parent's fault if I had been caught cheating on a test. I knew what I was doing - they didn't. At no point in time did they ever hint that it would be ok to cheat. Answer that question you "its the parents fault" nazi's that show up every thread that relates to something someone underage does.
Manaknight
Supreme [H]ardness
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it's not cheating it's beating the system...
seriously, does it matter? all it says to me is someone realized there was a way to get around a problem.
school has become so stale and standardized anyway whether you do the work or not until you get into the latter college years you don't actually learn anything worth a damn anyway.
seriously, does it matter? all it says to me is someone realized there was a way to get around a problem.
school has become so stale and standardized anyway whether you do the work or not until you get into the latter college years you don't actually learn anything worth a damn anyway.
I personally have seen 2 cheaters get 0's, embarrassed, and kicked out for cheating. Cellphones are already banned from tests at my school (not classrooms), and we have to submit all papers through turnitin. Usually no issues, but because I run a website where I put up my personal notes in my classes, a lot of the essays end up looking the same
Oh man, I meant to say in my post above that its not ALWAYS the parents fault - because of course there are dead beat, POS, retard parents out there, in which case, a lot of times it IS the parents fault. My point is there is always a knee jerk reaction to post that a minors poor decisions are ALWAYS the result of bad parenting.
OmegaAvenger
2[H]4U
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In my java programming class in highschool, me and 2 other friends were way ahead of the rest of the class, till we got a new teacher that wouldn't let us work ahead. Once everyone finally caught up to us, and everyone was doing fairly advanced stuff, one of my classmates who I didn't like asked to see my code, and I said no, so then he pushes me out out my chair and I came close to punching him till the teacher walked over, and sent him to the office. He got kicked of the class and suspended for a day or two.
Tech DOES make cheaters
Tech DOES make cheaters
InorganicMatter
[H]F Junkie
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I'd like to add that tech isn't turning kids into cheaters. They were already dishonest if they decided to cheat using the internet.
Ha ha. This is vaguely reminiscent of the recent slashdot article about math and the ed system. As I said there, people often miss the point of the entire school system in the US because they don't know the history of it which, of course is understandable. The vast majority of primary school and some of secondary school is not to teach you anything but the bare minimum of facts and understanding. Its core function is to make sure you can get at least a min wage job, pay taxes and get along as a citizen however they [government] define it.
It is really only at the graduate level [or journeyman/artisan for the trade set] that you are expected to think for yourself and expected to produce something original.
Personal anecdote time [insert not plural of data joke here]: About the time when I received my first appointment to uni as an asst professor, I was at a family reunion and my college aged cousin divulged that he has in the past cheated on a couple of occasions... he thought I would give him crap for it, as a symbol for the ed system no doubt, but I didn't. I asked him the circumstances of each case and asked if the amount of work required that went into the cheating in addition to the chance of getting caught was more or less effort than doing the work itself. I informed him that it wasn't my place to tell him whether he should cheat or not, he had to make that decision himself, but the next time he thought about it I asked him to weigh the cost v time v risk involved and if he was prepared to face the consequences in order to make a more rational decision. To this day he says that is probably the best advise he has ever received about college or life in general.
Their will always be cheaters: Maybe if we took the time to explain it and let them make a few of their own decisions and suffer the consequences instead of either ignoring the issue or smacking the hand and yelling, 'Fire. Bad.' parents would get better results... the more you know.
It is really only at the graduate level [or journeyman/artisan for the trade set] that you are expected to think for yourself and expected to produce something original.
Personal anecdote time [insert not plural of data joke here]: About the time when I received my first appointment to uni as an asst professor, I was at a family reunion and my college aged cousin divulged that he has in the past cheated on a couple of occasions... he thought I would give him crap for it, as a symbol for the ed system no doubt, but I didn't. I asked him the circumstances of each case and asked if the amount of work required that went into the cheating in addition to the chance of getting caught was more or less effort than doing the work itself. I informed him that it wasn't my place to tell him whether he should cheat or not, he had to make that decision himself, but the next time he thought about it I asked him to weigh the cost v time v risk involved and if he was prepared to face the consequences in order to make a more rational decision. To this day he says that is probably the best advise he has ever received about college or life in general.
Their will always be cheaters: Maybe if we took the time to explain it and let them make a few of their own decisions and suffer the consequences instead of either ignoring the issue or smacking the hand and yelling, 'Fire. Bad.' parents would get better results... the more you know.