Tablets vs Netbooks vs CULV-esque Laptops

C

Canadian in Berlin

Gawd
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
697
Hi All,

I'm trying to find the right product for what I want/need right now. In my line of work, I have to read a lot of online documents and PDFs, and would love a comfortable way to do this while in the subway, or when sprawled on the couch or in bed. Even a laptop can be uncomfortable after a long time with this.

Having played around with a few of my colleagues ipads, I'm quite intrigued by the concept, yet I hate apple's restrictions, modus operandi and the general swarm of wankers that will buy anything with an apple logo on it. (iTurd anyone?)

I've been looking at some of the other tablets around, but none have truly interested me (mild interest in the Galaxy Tab).

I was actually VERY interested in the WeTab until I read a lot of the review of it now that its out. Its fairly heavy, it's got a fairly loud fan, theres a lot of features that need to be patched into it, but the concept of having a linux tablet-OS (Android is only linux based imo) running on netbook hardware had me intrigued.

The idea of having a tablet for on the go, arriving on-site, hooking up a a keyboard, mouse and cisco console cable, plugging the tablet into a monitor (HDMI adapter to VGA or DVI, etc) and having basically a "linux netbook" had all of my colleagues drooling. Sadly, at least with the wetab, it is most likely not to be, at least not yet.

Are there any other similar products out there?

The other point of interest was some sort of low powered netbook, for reading on the go, as well as to double as a light-weight portable linux laptop (I currently have 2 laptops, a G73 gaming "all-in-oneworkstation" and my employer supplied Vaio Z [busting your ass does pay off sometimes]), but I'm not sure if I#d be better served with something more like the Envy 14 or one of those Nvidia ones where you can switch it over to the integrated graphics to preserve battery power for "simple" usage, but can boost the power for more serious work. But then I'm just lugging ANOTHER laptop around (how many does one need). This is why I think a tablet might be best for me.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can best achieve what I want, I want something that can be more than a PDFreader/webbrowser (aka ipad), in lines with what the wetab could have been. Or am I dreaming of a world of tomorrow?
 
MS Slates:
The HP slate would be perfect for what you want. It comes with docking station (It has USB ports, video out, power, etc.) so you don't have to bother with plugging/unplugging too much. Just stick it to the cradle and you have an instant nettop.

Unfortunately, it's unknown when it'll be out. If ever.

Android Slates:
Dunno about the others, but China slates also supports video out, USB peripherals (Thumbdrives, 3G modems, KB/M), 1080p, accelerometers, an actual file system, wifi connectivity, etc. all for under $120-$150. I'm currently waiting for Android 3.0 which is apparently designed for slates, so i can't exactly recommend the ones out now. When i do get an Android slate, i'll expect it to have all the features of the china slates but on a better package and materials. Galaxy Tab looks good, but i'm waiting for Android 3.0.

Netbooks:
Been using these for about 2 years now. It made me rethink how much CPU we actually need for work and web browsing. My I5-750 Quad core is mostly idle now because the netbook can handle pretty much everything i throw at it. Energy wise, a desktop running for 2 hours, uses as much electricity as a netbook for 24. Gaming, Video Processing, heavy debugging, etc. are still done on the desktop, but seriously, how much of your time is really spent on anything more intensive than a web browser? The ability to connect peripherals makes the whole "Screen Too Small"/"Keyboard Too Cramped" argument moot.

For your case, tho, there's no point in getting yet another laptop. Honestly, i can only recommend netbooks to desktop users. If i didn't already have a netbook, i'd be going after an HP slate too.
 
Thanks for the concept, and I agree with the HP slate, I'd seen that, drooled and forgotten it. As for the "china slates", my worry would be how much support/updates they'd have.

And I agree on the netbook point, as I said, ANOTHER laptop wouldn't do me much, only interest would be for a small pdf reader and a pure linux workstation, as the other laptops HAVE to be windows.

I hope the HP slate comes out soon, it looks wonderful, though I'll still wait for reviews.
 
Yeah, I’m looking forward to the HP Slate mainly because of the pen. It’ll be a little short but in landscape mode plenty wide and vertical scrolling is than horizontal. I saw a posting over at TabletPCReview.com that the HP Slate should be available for pricing on the 20th of this month. Not sure when that means if they’d ship after or not but I would hope after all of this time that HP is ready to go. Also there were reports of a 2.0 Ghz Z540 unit, that’s actually capable of delivering decent performance to Windows 7 I believe.

You did mention CULV laptops and by chance the HP tm2 convertible Tablet PC is now powered by i Series CULV CPUs. I have the older C2D CULV running at 1.6Ghz with a dedicated Radeon 4550 and 8GB of RAM, the new tm2s have the 5450 now as the dedicated GPU option but the performs very well. Love my tm2.
 
yeah, I almost grabbed one of those tm2's. looked sweet.
that or the HP slate should work great for you.

the iPad does what you listed as your needs perfectly, but if you're personally against it then I'd say go with the slate or tm2.
 
I'm not a big fan of (current) Windows tablets. They're not meant for finger touch (or even pen touch, in some areas) and the battery life is pretty short -- you're looking at 5 hours peak on the HP Slate (at least, as of its last leak) where an iPad can get over its official 10 hours.

I would at least look into the Samsung Galaxy Tab, but wait until the Wi-Fi only version is available unless you don't mind being tied into a two-year 3G contract. And do consider the iPad: you don't have to like everything Apple does to like something that it does well. It has the apps and the accessories for a lot more than you'd think.
 
i find the ipad great for browsing the web.... and my CULV notebook is great for everything but gaming...

my x4 5850 GPU SSD PC is great for gaming and i love multiple monitors for writing, greating powerpoint presentations, excel, and such
 
Sly said:
MS Slates:
The HP slate would be perfect for what you want. It comes with docking station (It has USB ports, video out, power, etc.) so you don't have to bother with plugging/unplugging too much. Just stick it to the cradle and you have an instant nettop.

Unfortunately, it's unknown when it'll be out. If ever.
Click to expand...

Just a clarification on that: the HP Slate Business model will have the additional goodies in the box like an HMDI cable, the dock, a leather case, AC adapter, USB cable, and some other "stuff" by all reports (nothing official from HP, however) - the Consumer version will most likely have only the Slate and the power adapter and USB cable.

As expected, the Business version is expected to be more expensive for those reasons, and it won't be available in retail channels - only by direct ordering from HP itself.
 
Aurelius said:
I'm not a big fan of (current) Windows tablets. They're not meant for finger touch (or even pen touch, in some areas) and the battery life is pretty short -- you're looking at 5 hours peak on the HP Slate (at least, as of its last leak) where an iPad can get over its official 10 hours.
Click to expand...


You have some valid points about the battery life but I disagree about touch in Windows. That's actual become something of a controversial subject, I see plenty of people debate back and forth over who good a touch OS Windows 7 actually is. I think it’s fairly decent overall. But no matter what side of the fence you’re on I think we can all agree that Windows needs some work and the hardware needs to get a little better before Windows will be well suited for slates.

That said, Windows on slates, both touch only and with active pens, offer a lot of apps that while not designed for touch only can work well in a touch environment like Office 2010. Most of Office 2010 works very well on a touch screen; even the rather tiny W100 does pretty well at handling Office. And with a pen and OneNote, Windows slates become the ultimate note taking computers.

Windows slates aren’t there yet on the entertainment side of things, a long way to go there but they do have a lot going for them for productive tasks and they do have a good number of practical uses that mobile phone OSes are good with.
 
Bahamut said:
Just a clarification on that: the HP Slate Business model will have the additional goodies in the box like an HMDI cable, the dock, a leather case, AC adapter, USB cable, and some other "stuff" by all reports (nothing official from HP, however) - the Consumer version will most likely have only the Slate and the power adapter and USB cable.

As expected, the Business version is expected to be more expensive for those reasons, and it won't be available in retail channels - only by direct ordering from HP itself.
Click to expand...

What you’re saying does seem to be the conventional wisdom. Ordering direct from HP is how I bought my last two consumer market Tablet PCs as you can usually get a good number of customizations directly from HP so ordering directly is the best way to get exactly what you want anyway. I must admit I REALLY want one of these things because of the pen.
 
Aurelius said:
I'm not a big fan of (current) Windows tablets. They're not meant for finger touch (or even pen touch, in some areas) and the battery life is pretty short -- you're looking at 5 hours peak on the HP Slate (at least, as of its last leak) where an iPad can get over its official 10 hours.

I would at least look into the Samsung Galaxy Tab, but wait until the Wi-Fi only version is available unless you don't mind being tied into a two-year 3G contract. And do consider the iPad: you don't have to like everything Apple does to like something that it does well. It has the apps and the accessories for a lot more than you'd think.
Click to expand...

As far as the Galaxy Tab goes, being tied to a 3G contract won't be an issue, over hear in Europe I'll be able to get it without a contract, and just get another SIM from work on the same unlimited data contract as the UMTS for my Vaio Z.

I'm not currently in a rush, hence why I'm looking around at alternatives to the ipad. I admit, it does "what it does" well. There are some cool apps, it does have a great pdf viewer, and it does surf the web well, but its still locking you into the "apple world".
 
An iPad get over 10 hours in normal use? Here we go with the Mactard again. My X201T's outlasts my iPads in the same mode of use, and the Lenovo is rated for around 6 hours (with a mix of cell / wifi radio on, I get about that much).

I'd say wait - I'm personally not convinced Tablets in the current form are the way to go, but the forthcoming slates with proper pen support would seem to be a slightly better prospect. We're going to be knee deep in them soon anyway.

For me as a general-purpose tablet the HP and the Adam are the most promising/interesting. But the latter is going more and more towards the vapourware way.
 
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not that this is what this thread is about, but my ipad gets great battery life and lasts longer than 6 hrs. definitely closer to 10hrs with Wifi and 3G on mostly surfing the web and light gaming


my wife and i used it on a 16 hr flight to watch TV shows and it lasted through 9 hrs of watching tv shows unitl it gave the 10% warning
 
My lady uses my iPad at her elementary school to teach her kids. She has it running pretty much constantly from 7 to 2pm and it's at about 50% when she comes home.
 
Ronco:

This is from personal experience. I usually go several days at 1-2 hours of use each day, and that's with games and video in the mix.

Also, please stop lowering yourself to personal attacks instead of arguing intelligently. You're being reported.
 
Aurelius said:
Ronco:

This is from personal experience. I usually go several days at 1-2 hours of use each day, and that's with games and video in the mix.

Also, please stop lowering yourself to personal attacks instead of arguing intelligently. You're being reported.
Click to expand...

There's a simple solution to this.

Stop picking figures and 'facts' from the Mactard contingent. Yes, I can also get your runtimes without problems, but only by moving all the goalposts and ekeing maximum runtime purely for the sake of reporting a maximum achievable runtime.

As I've said before, it is entirely possible to be an Apple user without being a Mactard. It is also perfectly possible not to feel that they are possessed of magical properties if you have sufficient experience with other gear. It just seems however that many can't help themselves.
 
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Was told that Android 3.0 development hasn't even started yet and that the 3.0 i've been getting on google is actually 2.3.

So i looked up Samsung Galaxy Tab trying to get an idea on when it'll be available here. Estimated pricing started out at $300.00 a few months ago and steadily going up to $800.00, and further up to $1,300.00

I'd rather browse through the malls for a good China Slate. Not all china gadgets are bad, just avoid the overly cheap ones, they're all displayed next to each other anyway so you can try each of them out personally.
 
The key is the attention to detail that you get from a major manufacturer. It's invariably missing from a maker who churns out price-driven gear. That's why everyone says avoid the Chindroids, because you *will* have a bad experience.
 
mope54 said:
My lady uses my iPad at her elementary school to teach her kids. She has it running pretty much constantly from 7 to 2pm and it's at about 50% when she comes home.
Click to expand...

The key is how long it's actually been used. I can come back with a partial charge on my X201T after a whole day of meetings, big deal. It's always 'my friend' 'my wife' 'my girlfriend' etc. I take stuff out, do the same things on them in a similar manner and compare. If it was genuinely better I'd be using it on an everyday basis.

And I've probably said 'the key is too often.
 
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Ronco said:
The key is the attention to detail that you get from a major manufacturer. It's invariably missing from a maker who churns out price-driven gear. That's why everyone says avoid the Chindroids, because you *will* have a bad experience.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily in our case. Difference here is that we don't order online and wouldn't actually be able to tell what it's like until we actually get it. We have malls packed with these things and you'll be able to try them out first hand, you'll know right away what the build quality is and how good the interface is before you buy.

As an example. I've had two MP5 players (China media players that can play DivX). The first generation was more functional than the iPod video but was really cheaply made and the circuitry inside was held together by hot glue. Half a year later, i went back and got a new MP5. Steel backed, thinner, lighter, credit card sized, better interface, i've opened them up (Not easy with a steel case) and the circuitry inside was on par with a PC circuitboard (Compact, perfect solders, etc.). Same price as the crap MP5 before. They improve their manufacturing process very quickly.

Same deal with the slates, the aPads/ePads out now are dramatically improving with each release already.
 
Ronco said:
The key is how long it's actually been used. I can come back with a partial charge on my X201T after a whole day of meetings with a mix of cell / wifi radio on, big deal. It's always 'my friend' 'my wife' 'my girlfriend' etc. I take stuff out, do the same things on them in a similar manner and compare. If it was genuinely better I'd be using it on an everyday basis.

And I've probably said 'the key is too often.
Click to expand...
Since I wrote my iPad is being used from 7am-2pm, "the key" apparently isn't how long it's being used but rather the fact she isn't using 3G. Use some common sense, or simply ask for information you don't understand, instead of arguing with people based on your own ignorant misunderstanding of a situation.
 
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Sly said:
Was looking for android alternatives when this came up. The OP did say he was interested to know what else was out there.

$500.00

10.2" Windows 7 Tablet, Multitouch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U3gB0imKl4

http://www.tabletsandtechnologies.c...efinition-166-ghz-webcam-powerhouse_p_15.html



Is 1024x600 some sort of tablet limit? I was kinda hoping to find 768 vertical res.
Click to expand...

It's a netbook limit imposed by MS. Since there are netbooks in effect, that's what you get.

And that hardware combo will very likely make it run like an arthritic three-legged dog.
 
@Ronco
Any reason why it wouldn't be able to run windows? I've been using netbooks (Which is pretty much what that is) for 2 years now and they can handle Win7 pretty well. Much of that time was spent attached to a 22" monitor.
 
mope54 said:
Since I wrote my iPad is being used from 7am-2pm, "the key" apparently isn't how long it's being used but rather the fact she isn't using 3G. Use some common sense, or simply ask for information you don't understand, instead of arguing with people based on your own ignorant misunderstanding of a situation.
Click to expand...

I wonder who's the ignorant one.

I simply said that I can also run my tablet with a mix of cell and wifi radio use for stop-start low impact use, and have a significant charge left over as well when I come back home after a light working day.

The most defensive are the most ignorant, because they want to believe that the choices they made in ignorance and/or isolation are the best. Everyone who writes posts like yours writes in the same way, and it's from an experience of one.

The difference here is that I don't have to force a choice. I buy anything I'm interested in using and I use the best after my own controlled yardsticks - I do it for my own lulz, I don't need to prove a point to anyone else. There are uses the iPad is absolutely suited to - but as a general productivity tablet, it's not the best choice - at least for those who are qualified to make a choice.
 
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Sly said:
@Ronco
Any reason why it wouldn't be able to run windows? I've been using netbooks (Which is pretty much what that is) for 2 years now and they can handle Win7 pretty well. Much of that time was spent attached to a 22" monitor.
Click to expand...

Of course it'll run Windows, but I'm talking about use as a tablet / truely mobile platform.

You need:
- responsive mobility
- fast tracking
for starters.

And I've yet to be convinced that using an Atom as a platform and using 1.8" rotating-media storage you can build a machine which truly delivers the above.You need a CULV, and you need SSD.
 
Ronco said:
Of course it'll run Windows, but I'm talking about use as a tablet / truely mobile platform.

You need:
- responsive mobility
- fast tracking
for starters.

And I've yet to be convinced that using an Atom as a platform and using 1.8" rotating-media storage you can build a machine which truly delivers the above.You need a CULV, and you need SSD.
Click to expand...

Hmm... Win7 is actually pretty decent on a netbook, but i wouldn't be able to tell how much of a CPU overhead a touch interface would have. I guess it would have to depend on the users perspective. As a professional, i look at a device and consider compatibility with my existing tools and how well it will integrate with my workstation. Functionality, rather than portability is the primary feature, so we can do our work while mobile. Someone sends me an attachment, i can preview it while my bus is stuck in a gridlock.

Work first, then play. Not work after play.

PS: I've actually finished entire VB server/client programs while i'm stuck in traffic. And i was using a math notebook (The ones with grids) and a mechanical pencil. This is where i'm coming from. Some people are looking for the Ultimate Touch Experience. We just want to get work done.
 
http://www.tipidpc.com/viewitem.php?iid=7302596

One of the generic Win7 tablets being sold locally for just under $480.00.

LCD 10.1" LED Multi-Touch Capactive Panel WSVGA 1366x768 Pixel
CPU Intel ATOM Processor N455 (1.66GHz)
Chipset Intel NM10 Express Chipset
Memory DDR III: 667MHz with 1 SODIMM Socket.
HDD: 32GB SSD
Network 10/100 Mbps Ethernet
Wireless I Full Card Mini PCI-E V1.2 Slot, Support 802.11 a.b.g
Dimension 267mm*173mm*8-17mm
Weight 900g
1 Micro SD Card Reader
Web Camera on Front Panel

Audio 2 Stereo Speakers, Built-in MIC
I/O Ports 1* Headphone out
1*DC-in
1*Mini-USB port
2*Standard USB2.0 Ports
I/O Internal 1 full Size Mini PCI-E V1.2 Slot, Support 802.11 a.b.g
1 full Size Mini PCI-E V1.2 Slot, Support 3G, 3.5G
Battery 3 Cells Polymer Battery Pack
A/C Adapter Input AC 110~240V Output DC 12-20V @ 40W
Support OS Windows 7 (NO OS included)
G Sensor for Orientation Detect and Screen rotation

Battery life is claimed at 2-3 hours.

Question is... can you really run Win7 on just 32Gigs?
 
if you're primarily interested in work rather than portability or the best touch experience, then your best bet is likely an established tablet (with stylus). Some of my friends have been using tablets in enterprise deployments for the better part of the last 15 years. There isn't any reason to worry about the newest iterations unless you're interested in using touch as your primary interface. That's the power of the iPad, and the weakest link in the devices linked at tabletsandtechnologies. Their claim that the devices will provide an iPad-like touch experience is horseshit. First of all, Apple has patented what they believed the best ways to achieve their multitouch. The others have had to figure out crude work-arounds for the past few years. They've yet to compare, from my experience.

My opinion about how shitty they will be in real life usage is disregarding the disgusting form-factor.


As for what MS is going to try and hype next week...so far it's similar promises that have been made for...well I dunno, I guess since forever! The've got something cool in the works, we'll see it before the peak selling season, and it'll have everything everyone else has and *more*! (-small print- may or may not adequately run Win7, may or may not have a touch-optimized OS, may or may not look like total ass when it's being carried around...but definitely *will* keep the stock holders at bay until next quarter!)
 
mope54 said:
My opinion about how shitty they will be in real life usage is disregarding the disgusting form-factor.
Click to expand...

Huh? What's disgusting about the form factor? Look like ass when being carried? Once again huh?
 
heatlesssun said:
Huh? What's disgusting about the form factor? Look like ass when being carried? Once again huh?
Click to expand...
That Streak he linked is more than twice the thickness of an iPad.

streak1.jpg


Yes, I think it will look like ass when carried and also be a pain to use lying in bed or on the couch if used in any position other than putting it flat on a surface in front of his face.
 
Facts don't depend on what you do or don't believe.
Next time do your own research.

Size: 260x168x27mm
Net weight: 997g
Click to expand...

vs.

Height: 9.56 inches (242.8 mm)
Width: 7.47 inches (189.7 mm)
Depth: 0.5 inch (13.4 mm)
Weight: 1.5 pounds (0.68 kg)
Click to expand...

The iPad is half as thick, 3/4" inch wider, shorter, and 2/3 lbs lighter.
 
mope54 said:
Facts don't depend on what you do or don't believe.
Next time do your own research.
Click to expand...

Never said they did, but this is far from the only Windows tablet, others that I've looked at are much thinner and lighter, this is heavier than and almost a thick as my W100 folded closed with the 8-cell battery.
 
I really like the thought behind the W100, but I'd be worried that the split screen would be a hindrance to reading. Do you find it distracting compared to your tm2t?

If he was more interested in content creation, I'd recommend the tm2t without hesitation. But since he said "I have to read a lot of online documents and PDFs, and would love a comfortable way to do this while in the subway, or when sprawled on the couch or in bed," I doubt a tablet is his best bet.

A netbook would be a poor choice for those uses, imo. The screen would be tiny compared to a full tablet (or iPad), there really isn't a good way to hold one while lying down, and I find them difficult to interact with one hand while holding the device with another. I consider a netbook to be useful when the smallest possible size for content creation is needed by the user.

I don't have any personal experience with what we used to mean when referring to "tablets." I only know that all of my friends who work for large corporations have been provided tablets while working in the field. But they were very specialized to the tasks at hand. The tablets were more locked down than anything Apple would ever dream of doing! They were excellent for scanning and ordering inventory, diagnostics, and syncing to the companies' servers. They looked the right size for reading documents, but I don't know how well they would actually fare in that role.

And one thing I think worth mentioning is that multi-touch used to mean capable of pen/touch whereas now it means capable of understanding numerous, simultaneous touch input. I find that companies often capitalize on the more recent understanding of this term to give the impression that their touch experience is going to approximate Apple's multitouch technology. I haven't seen anything come close, yet so it bears repeating that before finalizing which tablet/netbook/slate/*Pad/etc. to purchase one really needs to put one's hands on the device.
 
Never heard of pen and touch being called just multi-touch, that makes no sense. A device like the tm2 has two touch points and a pen so multi-touch doesn't accurately describe it's input capabilities. And there's plenty in Windows that is similar to Apple's multi-touch capabilities. Not saying that they are as good as Apple's on Windows7, the Zune HD is much closer, but many of the gestures do work similary.

As for the W100's dual displays and reading, actually it works very well for text based documents, assuming that the document is spread over two windows, you can use just one. Everything is so flexible that I would think that most people should be able to find a setup that works for them and it is very light at 1.5 - 1.8 lbs so it's great for carrying around.
 
Sorry I haven't posted in htis thread in a while, the past week and a bit has been a nightmare full of overtime hours.

Sly said:
Archos 101 (Target Price 299. Not sure if that in Euros or Dollars)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHjBOSOT-DU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e2zX0A0zho
Click to expand...

This looks interesting, has anyone here actually used one though? Another downside is the lack of UMTS, which would make reading online documents on the go very difficult.

mope54 said:
I don't have any personal experience with what we used to mean when referring to "tablets." I only know that all of my friends who work for large corporations have been provided tablets while working in the field. But they were very specialized to the tasks at hand. The tablets were more locked down than anything Apple would ever dream of doing! They were excellent for scanning and ordering inventory, diagnostics, and syncing to the companies' servers. They looked the right size for reading documents, but I don't know how well they would actually fare in that role.
Click to expand...

Most of my colleagues gobbled up IPADs as soon as they were available, so I've had a chance to try reading PDFs and surf the cisco website and access documentation there. It's wonderful ( I just hate apple). The fact I can also access my work emails, private emails, chat and play some games is that which would make it worth while.

I make enough sacrifices with my time and overtime for work (most recently upgrading my old gaming computer's RAM so I can run a virtual lab at home, because the ESXi at work is too full) to purchase something I can ONLY use for work.

Currently the galaxy TAB is looking like the winner, but I'd really have to see some more reviews once its out and about... I'll post more later, but duty calls.
 
Canadian in Berlin said:
This looks interesting, has anyone here actually used one though? Another downside is the lack of UMTS, which would make reading online documents on the go very difficult.
Click to expand...

Do you mean 3G capability?

It doesn't affect me coz my phone has a wifi mode that lets my gadgets connect to the internet throught it.

I can't confirm it for the Archos 101. But china slates are demoed to be compatible with 3G USB dongles. Hopefully it's a standard android feature and will be supported on the 101 as well.
 
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