T-Mobile, Sprint Finalizing Merger

ComputerBox34

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So we know that Verizon and ATT are against unlimited data. Consider the following scenario:

I wonder how long ToMo/Sprint will be able to justify to their shareholders why they are the only major carrier still offering unlimited everything...particularly when they can charge $20/gig for data oike the other two. Once it's clear that they are leaving billions $$$ of Shareholder value on the table by not charging for data a la cart, that'll be the end of unlimited everything.

And those on Grandfathered unlimited plans? No problem...you can keep your Grandfathered plan. We're increasing the price by $250 per month,but you're welcome to keep it if you want it. Oh by the way, in 6months it goes up another $250. But you can keep it...

Don't think that it will happen? Just remember...the airlines are going to drop the fuel price surcharges and the charges for checked bags just as soon as the high fuel prices from the year 2008 subside. They swear...
Uh ATT and Verizon brought unlimited back....2 years ago
 

pfc_m_drake

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Uh ATT and Verizon brought unlimited back....2 years ago
Correct. Due to pressure from BOTH TMo AND Sprint.
Once 4 become 3, with 2 against the idea, how long do you think that will last???

edit: As a matter of fact, if I recall correctly, didn't TMo DROP their unlimited plan at one point, with Sprint being the last man standing? I seem to remember SprintsS CEO at the time pimping their unlimited plan as their true differentiator between the 4.

And TMo is taking over Sprint in this merger, right?

Hmm...
 

bastage

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Correct. Due to pressure from BOTH TMo AND Sprint.
Once 4 become 3, with 2 against the idea, how long do you think that will last???

edit: As a matter of fact, if I recall correctly, didn't TMo DROP their unlimited plan at one point, with Sprint being the last man standing? I seem to remember SprintsS CEO at the time pimping their unlimited plan as their true differentiator between the 4.

And TMo is taking over Sprint in this merger, right?

Hmm...
No you don't remember correctly. TMobile never dropped unlimited data. The price on it went up a couple times then went down a bunch, but they've maintained having it for a long time now.
 

ComputerBox34

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Cool.
What do you suspect is in store when the merger goes through :)
At this point, having unlimited data is marketing speak. You drop unlimited data, the other carriers spin it as you openly acknowledging that your network doesn't have the capacity to support its customers. It's a losing strategy that T-Mobile has already taken and used to their advantage and won. In reality, if you read the fine print, after a certain cap, EACH of these carriers will throttle you depending on congestion in your particular area as well as excess capacity. So while your data may be unlimited, your experience could really suck after a certain limit...UNLESS you subscribe to other data heavy services that carriers offer....like ATT and DTV now. I'd be willing to bet money that ATT will never throttle DTV Now but they WILL throttle YouTubeTV and SlingTV...past 22 gb.

The battle for unlimited data is over and a dead issue....the carriers know they will not get away with charging you for every bit of data like they once had wet dreams about. The battle for EQUAL treatment of internet services to ALL parts of the internet has just begun and where we really should be looking. TMo buying Sprint doesn't really affect this battle one way or the other as they are still just two carriers - they have no other businesses that they can leverage for control of the "tubes" like Comcast with NBC, ATT with DirecTV, Verizon with...whatever they're doing, etc. THOSE are the deals you should be weary of.

If TMo and Sprint don't merge and continue on their current path, neither of them will have the resources to build a competitive 5G network like ATT or Verizon. Sprint is already in a death spiral and has not been investing in improving their network at all in the past 5 years. All they have been doing is proving that 2.5G spectrum is viable which it appears that they have successfully done. The only value left they have to go on is their spectrum holdings which is exactly why TMo is buying them so they can leverage them to build a real 5G network not reliant on millimeter wave tech....ie. no macrocells every 5 blocks. These companies stay apart and you will just see Sprint sell off everything it owns, probably creating new companies that cover regional areas in the process but none that will ever have the nationwide clout that ATT and Verizon currently have.

I worked in telecom and with all 4 of these carriers closely for 4 years so I have a bit of a different perspective. Sprint tried selling us their 2.5G rights to all of NYC at one point because they couldn't pay for a deal they had already committed to. No matter how you look at it, the "big 4" will become the "big 3" one way or the other. (not counting all of the other companies stacking up on spectrum holdings such as Comcast, Dish Network, etc.)
 

pfc_m_drake

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Interesting that the 5g topic keeps coming up.
I thought this was an interesting article in the context of unlimited data and the new 5g standard.

And on a purely speculative note, it’s possible the shift to unlimited plans now could be a savvy move by carriers as the future 5G transition somewhere down the line begins. By offering unlimited 4G internet now, carriers can get the loyalty and service of new customers with plans that in all likelihood won’t transfer over to the new, faster standard.
But I'm sure you guys are right, TMo's motivations are purely about 'spectrum' and nothing to do with Shareholder value, and things like Uncarrier and unlimited data (at competitive pricing) are now permanent fixtures, and the consumer stands to *only* benefit from this merger.

With that settled, I have to fly to Massachusetts next weekend. Anybody want to PayPal me some $$$ to cover my checked bag fees?
 

hlfbkd420

Limp Gawd
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So we know that Verizon and ATT are against unlimited data. Consider the following scenario:

I wonder how long ToMo/Sprint will be able to justify to their shareholders why they are the only major carrier still offering unlimited everything...particularly when they can charge $20/gig for data oike the other two. Once it's clear that they are leaving billions $$$ of Shareholder value on the table by not charging for data a la cart, that'll be the end of unlimited everything.

And those on Grandfathered unlimited plans? No problem...you can keep your Grandfathered plan. We're increasing the price by $250 per month,but you're welcome to keep it if you want it. Oh by the way, in 6months it goes up another $250. But you can keep it...

Don't think that it will happen? Just remember...the airlines are going to drop the fuel price surcharges and the charges for checked bags just as soon as the high fuel prices from the year 2008 subside. They swear...
I'll be here waiting... Patiently for that to happen...

Mind you... My rates have went down in the last 15 years...
 

bastage

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Interesting that the 5g topic keeps coming up.
I thought this was an interesting article in the context of unlimited data and the new 5g standard.



But I'm sure you guys are right, TMo's motivations are purely about 'spectrum' and nothing to do with Shareholder value, and things like Uncarrier and unlimited data (at competitive pricing) are now permanent fixtures, and the consumer stands to *only* benefit from this merger.

With that settled, I have to fly to Massachusetts next weekend. Anybody want to PayPal me some $$$ to cover my checked bag fees?
TMobile needs spectrum more then anything.. without it that whole layer 3 purchase would be pointless... I speculated then that either dish or Sprint would be merged/aquired for the extra spectrum before the 5g rollout.. what you basically will end up with is your phone/cable/home internet triple play.. That brings competition that's very much needed especially in the home internet realm and it should be very good for consumers.
 

trparky

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Oh, this will suck.
Worse than Sprint dying? And before you ask... yes, at the epic rate that Sprint is burning through cash there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Sprint will die. If not for this merger I would give them two, maybe three years, until they're dead.

yay less choices!
Sprint's not even a choice man. Their network is absolute garbage. Wait... to call Sprint's network garbage would be an insult to garbage.
 

xrealm20

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Worse than Sprint dying? And before you ask... yes, at the epic rate that Sprint is burning through cash there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Sprint will die. If not for this merger I would give them two, maybe three years, until they're dead.


Sprint's not even a choice man. Their network is absolute garbage. Wait... to call Sprint's network garbage would be an insult to garbage.

And your last statement echos what I mean by it will suck. I’m a happy t-mo customer for almost eight years, and I’m sure sprint will find some way to fuck that up if any aspect of their shit leadership stay in tact.
 

ComputerBox34

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And your last statement echos what I mean by it will suck. I’m a happy t-mo customer for almost eight years, and I’m sure sprint will find some way to fuck that up if any aspect of their shit leadership stay in tact.
TMo is taking over completely from what I've read. This deal is more of an acquisition than a merger - probably figured "merger" was a softer word for regulatory optics
 

gamerk2

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I agree. I'm a Sprint customer, and I'm not for it.
Quite frankly, (and I say this as someone who is very pro-business) I think these mega mega mergers are something to be worried about.
Basically we've gotten to the point where Apple can't buy Google, but everything else is fair game?

You'll ask me where the threshold is: It's a little bit like defining pornography. I can't define pornography for you, but if you show me something I can tell you whether it's pornography or not.
Similarly, I can't tell you where the merger threshold is, but I do know that DuPont shouldn't be merging with Dow.
Capitalism!

You start with a lot of small companies. A bunch fail, and get acquired. Then you have a bunch of medium size companies, a handful fail and get acquired. Then you get to the point where the market leaders are so large, you justify the combination of everyone else into one entity in the name of "competition".

Eventually, you are left with "A" and "B", and maybe a "C". That's basically where we're headed.

If I were in charge, any company that controls more then 20% of a market segment would be broken up on the spot.
 

IdiotInCharge

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If I were in charge, any company that controls more then 20% of a market segment would be broken up on the spot.
Devil's advocate: what would be the motivation for any company to build out nationwide spectrum, then?


[most of our aversion to busting monopolies comes from the realization that such a disposition can discourage innovation...]
 

SomeoneElse

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All this talk about unlimited data but once you hit your "data cap" in "unlimited" its throttled to 2G speeds. So yea you get unlimited data but its slowed to a crawl. At least I remember seeing that fine print on sprint ads.
 

ccityinstaller

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TMobile needs spectrum more then anything.. without it that whole layer 3 purchase would be pointless... I speculated then that either dish or Sprint would be merged/aquired for the extra spectrum before the 5g rollout.. what you basically will end up with is your phone/cable/home internet triple play.. That brings competition that's very much needed especially in the home internet realm and it should be very good for consumers.

T-Mobile has PLENTY of Spectrum..They have enough to offer blazing fast LTE across 95% of the country if they could just drop everything but their push to get the new spectrum they bought that used to be used by brocast TV..They have already started the roll out but it will be done in 3 stages that end in 2021/22 IIRC...The issue is that spectrum they bought is still be used in a large part of the country for.....Broadcast TV. The Feds should have really rethought that and been more aggressive with the BT transition.

But from a tech standpoint, T-Mobile has everything they need to dominate the big 2 carriers.

I am not a huge fan of this meger as it means the consumer will suffer in the long run. I just left Verizon paying 75 a month (with tax) for 5GB of LTE....Went on a family plan with my lady and we have 15GB of LTE on Verizon's network with Total Wireless for $60 after the 5% autopay discount. Could not have been happier since here in the PW of Oregon's coast you NEED verizon to have any kind of decent service.

Our two major routes south toward Portland (US 26 and 30) have 4 or 5 zones where you have zero service for miles at a time...Add in the fact that those highways have fatal crashes nearly every other day (lady works for ODOT) and T-Mobile's new network cannot get here fast enough since Verizon has zero interest in supplying coverage.
 
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JMccovery

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All this talk about unlimited data but once you hit your "data cap" in "unlimited" its throttled to 2G speeds. So yea you get unlimited data but its slowed to a crawl. At least I remember seeing that fine print on sprint ads.
It kinda works like that on T-Mobile; once you go past 50GB, you're throttled to 2G speeds on congested towers, otherwise you still have full LTE speeds.

Right now, I'm at 73.2GB, and I haven't been slowed yet. In the three years I've been on Simple Choice, I've only been throttled three times: once while around Cleveland, once around Indianapolis, and once near Atlanta (all when I was an OTR driver).

I watch a good bit of stuff at 720p60 or higher.
 

mullet

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Just wait this will make T-Mobile bigger and stronger, then watch people from AT&T and Verizon peel off toward T-Mobile, it's going to happen just how much how fast. Just give people a reason to jump ship, and watch them jump. People are sick and tired of AT&T and Verizon. This will be great, wait and see you millennials. LOL
 

bastage

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T-Mobile has PLENTY of Spectrum..They have enough to offer blazing fast LTE across 95% of the country if they could just drop everything but their push to get the new spectrum they bought that used to be used by brocast TV..They have already started the roll out but it will be done in 3 stages that end in 2021/22 IIRC...The issue is that spectrum they bought is still be used in a large part of the country for.....Broadcast TV. The Feds should have really rethought that and been more aggressive with the BT transition.

But from a tech standpoint, T-Mobile has everything they need to dominate the big 2 carriers.
You are incorrect.. The spectrum that T-Mobile just bought is 600 Mhz which I am sure you know. Well that 600 is low band & is not meant for blazing fast LTE. Its meant for coverage. It will reach out a long ways from the tower's, but the speeds will not be what you can get from the 1900 or 2100mhz that T-Mobile already has.

Also you may notice in my quote that you posted that I didnt mention LTE at all.. Thats because I wasn't referring to LTE I was referring to the 5G roll-out which will be needed with the blazing fast speeds available from the high band spectrum that sprint has in order to compete on the TV/Home internet front which AT&T & Verizon are both already playing in.

Its a year old, but this chart gives an easy to read view of who has about how much.

https://qtxasset.com/styles/max_260...rage-spectrum-depth_2017_05.jpg?itok=IEX7ag2u
 

ccityinstaller

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You are incorrect.. The spectrum that T-Mobile just bought is 600 Mhz which I am sure you know. Well that 600 is low band & is not meant for blazing fast LTE. Its meant for coverage. It will reach out a long ways from the tower's, but the speeds will not be what you can get from the 1900 or 2100mhz that T-Mobile already has.

Also you may notice in my quote that you posted that I didnt mention LTE at all.. Thats because I wasn't referring to LTE I was referring to the 5G roll-out which will be needed with the blazing fast speeds available from the high band spectrum that sprint has in order to compete on the TV/Home internet front which AT&T & Verizon are both already playing in.

Its a year old, but this chart gives an easy to read view of who has about how much.

https://qtxasset.com/styles/max_260...rage-spectrum-depth_2017_05.jpg?itok=IEX7ag2u
Totally had a brainfart...I read your post about 2.5Ghz spectrum and was thinking of the 600Mhz they had purchased and mixed the two together.
 

Xrave

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Not sure why people thinks this is a bad thing. This isn't ATT and Verizon merging, this is #3 and #4 trying to compete with #1 and #2. I never looked at Tmo and Sprint trying to compete against each other, they were both always trying to compete and get customers away from ATT and Verizon.

All I see is a new carrier with a lot more towers and a lot more spectrum that still needs to offer their price advantages vs. the still much larger carriers.

After this merger they still are a few mil subscribers short of ATT, and more compared to Verizon.
upload_2018-4-30_23-24-38.png
 
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sleepeeg3

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On topic - this is bad for all. I don't see how they merge a CDMA and GSM carrier. I guess they can share LTE, but not 2G/3G?
Not sure why people thinks this is a bad thing.

After this merger they still are a few mil subscribers short of ATT, and more compared to Verizon.
View attachment 70395
Why do they need to be even with Verizon and ATT? Tell me again how having only 3 choices is better than 4? Capitalism is great for consumers, until there are few competitors.

Wireless service prices are too much. This is just gonna make it worse.

We have an S9 and a Note 8, both from Samsung Insights. Even without lease pricing, a 10GB plan is still running me ~$150/mo.
I feel like it should be a 60/mo service
Get a Prepaid plan. You are getting hosed. I am on a (recently) legacy T-Mobile prepaid plan. $30 for 5GB, unlimited text, 100min talk. Can add more minutes for $0.10/minute. Practically, it costs me ~$40/month, since I have to add extra minutes and I get full LTE speeds, unlike many of the MVNO plans.

Either way, there are other options out there that don't cost nearly as much. Also, buy your phone on eBay for half the cost.

Edit: Here you go. I searched for you. Literally half the cost for the same thing. You're welcome.
 
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alxlwson

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6,869
On topic - this is bad for all. I don't see how they merge a CDMA and GSM carrier. I guess they can share LTE, but not 2G/3G?
Why do they need to be even with Verizon and ATT? Tell me again how having only 3 choices is better than 4? Capitalism is great for consumers, until there are few competitors.

Get a Prepaid plan. You are getting hosed. I am on a (recently) legacy T-Mobile prepaid plan. $30 for 5GB, unlimited text, 100min talk. Can add more minutes for $0.10/minute. Practically, it costs me ~$40/month, since I have to add extra minutes and I get full LTE speeds, unlike many of the MVNO plans.

Either way, there are other options out there that don't cost nearly as much. Also, buy your phone on eBay for half the cost.

Edit: Here you go. I searched for you. Literally half the cost for the same thing. You're welcome.

Thanks. Also, I haven't paid for a phone since the Note 5 launch. Samsung Insights ftw
 

zkostik

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Tmobile wants full control. They will get more coverage, more customers, and more spectrum.

Long as they keep the uncarrier attitude its a win.
I'm on T-Mo and generally like them but having even fewer providers (as in less competition) as well as someone to foot this purchase bill worries me. I sure hope they don't bump prices.
 

JMccovery

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On topic - this is bad for all. I don't see how they merge a CDMA and GSM carrier.
I'm guessing that lots of people didn't pay attention to when T-Mobile bought MetroPCS back in 2012/2013. MetroPCS customers were informed that the CDMA network was being switched over to GSM, and that they would need a compatible phone, if they already didn't have one.

More than likely, most of the more recent Sprint phones are GSM compatible, and may not need more than firmware upgrades to unlock the appropriate bands.
 

ComputerBox34

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I'm guessing that lots of people didn't pay attention to when T-Mobile bought MetroPCS back in 2012/2013. MetroPCS customers were informed that the CDMA network was being switched over to GSM, and that they would need a compatible phone, if they already didn't have one.

More than likely, most of the more recent Sprint phones are GSM compatible, and may not need more than firmware upgrades to unlock the appropriate bands.
Most of these networks will be shutting down anyway - everything is going LTE for both Voice and Data. The 2G/3G networks will be shutdown to reclaim the spectrum for 5G.
 
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