SystemCooling + AC

[Top Nurse]

That statement I truly believe.
BTW, the TEMPEST is coming!

If it's soon then pick up some of those valves for me and ship them. I shipped you those valves today Priority Mail.

 

[Erasmus354]

What?

I told you it was pointless to argue with him on that topic.

ON TOPIC:

I agree (partly) with Bellacroix. I am certain that when the review comes out there will be complaining from one side or the other. Probably relating around real world vs. die simulator results. I hope that Lee has performed both tests. I know that he cant exactly test the kit on his die sim, but I hope he tested the Cuplex XT separately. In my opinion, that is what I will go by to make recommendations to friends, forum members, and myself. I dont buy kits, I like to chose my parts. I feel that I have a strong enough grasp of the concepts to make a balanced system based upon well conducted test data.

A real world test will be interesting, however there is one major problem. This is that Lee hasn't done very many real world tests, so we dont have much to compare the AC kit to. It would be really nice if he includes a test of the Apex kit alongside the AC kit. However, even this needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As Lee showed in the Apogee testing, on the real world test a Maze 3 (horrible block by todays standards) had the exact same temperature as a Storm and Apogee block. This just goes to show the gross inaccuracies you can get when testing with a CPU thermal diode.

If you are intelligent in your interpretation of the review (hopefully die sim + real world) you can combine the results to get a pretty realistic picture of what to expect in your system. Ideally I would have liked Lee to test the hydraulic pumping power on the Aquastream (would be interesting how much more powerful than a 1046 it really is), test the EVO radiator, and test the Cuplex XT on his testbench. Then once he is done with the "synthetic" or "scientific" benchmarks combine them all and test on a real system. Do this test along side that of another watercooling setup he has so we can get some baseline comparisons. This is probably a bit much to ask for though because I dont know if Lee is/was setup to perform the pump or radiator testing.

 

[thewhiteguy]

I told you it was pointless to argue with him on that topic.

No, I seriously don't get what the heck that cryptic statement was supposed to mean.

 

[Top Nurse]

Ideally I would have liked Lee to test the hydraulic pumping power on the Aquastream (would be interesting how much more powerful than a 1046 it really is), test the EVO radiator, and test the Cuplex XT on his testbench. Then once he is done with the "synthetic" or "scientific" benchmarks combine them all and test on a real system. Do this test along side that of another watercooling setup he has so we can get some baseline comparisons. This is probably a bit much to ask for though because I dont know if Lee is/was setup to perform the pump or radiator testing.

So did you get a draft copy of the results? Seems like you know a good many things about this review.

 

[phide]

different enough now?

You're missing the point.

DangerDen's "improvements" are foolish and negatively impact the performance of the block. Interchangable plates, as far as I know, were a brand new concept in waterblocks, and yes, the RBX has three plates versus the White Water's three - but this isn't the point. You know we aren't trying to debate this, so why bother to bring it up? We want to compare the characteristics of the baseplate.

I'm surprised at your tone. You act as if I punched your grandmother in the mouth.

Dig back through OCAU. You'll see what reaction Cathar had to the RBX. His reactions were not without warrant.

 

[Top Nurse]

As Lee showed in the Apogee testing, on the real world test a Maze 3 (horrible block by todays standards) had the exact same temperature as a Storm and Apogee block. This just goes to show the gross inaccuracies you can get when testing with a CPU thermal diode.

Wait a minute! If you get the same temps on three different blocks off the same CPU, then who cares what the temps are. All the blocks performed the same correct? If the CPU diode is off it is off on all the trials. Your not seeing a variance in temps based on a tolerance of the diode.

 

[ikellensbro]

Lots of people copied the WW when it came out - and why not? It was a drastically originally, much better performing block than anything before it, and it established several standards that (nearly) all new blocks today follow as well.

Yes, the RBX is basically a WW with a different fin style, but with the option to change the plates. This is one spot where DD was somewhat successful in being original. For those who liked to tinker around, they could try out different plates (and even design one of your own) and find which performed best with your loop.

We were getting somewhat on topic, so here's what I would like to see in the review:

• A lot of comparisons with the Apex kit.
• Both die and real world testings of the Cuplex, especially comparing its (possible) restrictiveness and performance at different flow rates with current top performing blocks.
• A comparison of the Aquastream to a regular Eheim 1048, including the difference from 'OCing' the Aquastream.
• The Evo compared to BIP and BIX of equal size, to see how efficient, and how restrictive it comparably is compared to the previous two, and possibly Swiftech's MCP 220 (the rad in the Apex kit).
• An overall impression and discussion of quality, looks, value (in the reviewer(s) opinion(s)), and general performance.
• I don't know if they were included, but it would be nice to have all the fittings be upgraded to 3/8" (maybe even 1/2") fittings, and compare performance (possibly add a couple 90* elbows, like many AC loops use, and see how much performance loss there is).
• Finally, we all just want to see the review, so get the stupid thing out now before this now 247 post thread gets closed like it should have more than 100 (maybe 200) posts ago.

 

[Top Nurse]

This is what is being reviewed:

They also got tubing and fittings for the standard 6mm ID AC Plug & Cool push-fits and 3/8" ID barbs.

I'm hoping that somebody told them that the Aquastream flow can be varied and they did flow tests based on pump output. I'm also curious to see how the XT ran compared to the 6mm or 3/8" tube when used with the Aquastream. Also would be nice if they hooked a DDC up to it as well so they could get some noise figures (AC sells the DDC as well).

 

[madmat]

I'd like to interject an OT question here for everyone to ponder (yes it is relevant to some of the back and forth about designs).

How many of you think that DFIs Expert SLI board was a step in the right direction in terms of mobo design? The slots are further apart making for easier NB WC'ing and allowing for a wider range of GPU waterblock choices.

Now, are they copying ASUS' design? Face it, ASUS were basically the ones that started the whole thing off with widely spaced PCI-e slots were they not? DFI took fully a year and a half to jump on board that train of thought yet I don't see anyone slamming them for copying ASUS, instead I see people saying things like "It's about time that they came up with a good design."

Yet when one WB is similar to another (WW, 1 inlet, 2 outlets, RBX, 1 inlet, 2 outlets) there are cries of "ZOMG!! Teh copycats are they!! Death to DD!!" which is really silly. The WW and the RBX are different designs internally.

Get over it.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Lots of people copied the WW when it came out - and why not? It was a drastically originally, much better performing block than anything before it, and it established several standards that (nearly) all new blocks today follow as well.

Yes, the RBX is basically a WW with a different fin style, but with the option to change the plates. This is one spot where DD was somewhat successful in being original. For those who liked to tinker around, they could try out different plates (and even design one of your own) and find which performed best with your loop.

Thank you, finally someone with more knowledge than the release of the Storm! As you can see the panel of "experts" on this sub forum have no clue how waterblocks evolved to where they are today. More importantly, who are the innovators and who are the followers.

 

[thewhiteguy]

Thank you, finally someone with more knowledge than the release of the Storm! As you can see the panel of "experts" on this sub forum have no clue how waterblocks evolved to where they are today. More importantly, who are the innovators and who are the followers.

According to that AquaComputer is also a follower.

 

[Erasmus354]

Is the RBX very similar and based upong the design of the WW - yes. Plain and simple. Is it different than the WW - yes.

Is the Cuplex XT very similar to the NexxxosXP - yes. Is the Cuplex XT different than the Nexxxos XP - yes.

In general terms, an invention is an object, process or technique which displays an element of novelty. An invention may sometimes be based on earlier breakthroughs, collaborations or ideas, and the process of invention requires at least the awareness that an existing concept or method can be modified or transformed into a new invention. However, some inventions also represent a "quantum leap" in science or technology which extends the boundaries of human knowledge.

Not all designs can be as revolutionary as Cathar's designs. Most designs are evolutions of those brought about by other people. Dangerden didn't simply copy the WW, they tried to make additions to improve upon the design. Whether those additions are for the better or the worse....well. They did come up with a unique idea with the RBX in the interchangeable accelerator plates, an idea which is used in other blocks today (MP-05).

You dont reinvent the wheel everytime you want to design a car... Bottom line, it comes down to your view on how much is acceptable for building upon another persons idea / design. In my opinion the RBX fits the bill as making enough changes and design decisions to be a separate design that is based upon the WW, not a copy of the WW. This is in the same way that most impingement blocks today are based upon the design of the Cascade.

 

[phide]

How many of you think that DFIs Expert SLI board was a step in the right direction in terms of mobo design? The slots are further apart making for easier NB WC'ing and allowing for a wider range of GPU waterblock choices. Now, are they copying ASUS' design?

Would DFI have come up with such a concept if it were not for ASUS? Would you say it's very likely that they would have? Increasing the space between PCIe slots is not a terribly complex idea requiring months of calculations, considerations of design constraints and testing, testing and more testing. It's also, quite simply, a no-brainer: If cards in slots too close, move slots further apart. Perhaps I'm digging too deep into the analogy, but that's for you to decide.

Cathar's concepts weren't radical in terms of concept, either - but he was the first to implement them in a waterblock intended for CPU cooling. That's important. And all credit to DangerDen for the interchangable nozzle plates. Nobody's denying this achievement.

Get over it.

I don't believe anyone's in tears over it. Again, I think many of you are intentionally misinterpreting the "tone" of my posts.

 

[Top Nurse]

Not me as you seem pretty level headed.

 

[madmat]

Would DFI have come up with such a concept if it were not for ASUS? Would you say it's very likely that they would have? Increasing the space between PCIe slots is not a terribly complex idea requiring months of calculations, considerations of design constraints and testing, testing and more testing. It's also, quite simply, a no-brainer: If cards in slots too close, move slots further apart. Perhaps I'm digging too deep into the analogy, but that's for you to decide.

Cathar's concepts weren't radical in terms of concept, either - but he was the first to implement them in a waterblock intended for CPU cooling. That's important. And all credit to DangerDen for the interchangable nozzle plates. Nobody's denying this achievement.


I don't believe anyone's in tears over it. Again, I think many of you are intentionally misinterpreting the "tone" of my posts.

My words were not necessarily aimed at you...

 

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

You're missing the point.

DangerDen's "improvements" are foolish and negatively impact the performance of the block. Interchangable nozzles, as far as I know, were a brand new concept in waterblocks, and yes, the RBX has two plates versus the White Water's three - but this isn't the point. You know we aren't trying to debate this, so why bother to bring it up? We want to compare the characteristics of the baseplate.

I'm surprised at your tone. You act as if I punched your grandmother in the mouth.

Dig back through OCAU. You'll see what reaction Cathar had to the RBX. His reactions were not without warrant.

im alittle touchy with the AC crowd after BioPort found it fit to insult me a while back. so i tend to take a harsher tone against people who want to argue with me.

and i did some nijna edits to your post.

 

[Top Nurse]

Very possible. Silver looks great (though my G5 is pretty much entirely covered by Delrin), and there are other advantages besides performance. Silver is, in my opinion, absolutely the material to have for baseplates (or anything else, for that matter - a silver AquaTube would be pretty slick). The performance advantage depends on the design of the block. A short pin grid block such as the Cuplex will yield little improvement over the same block in copper. Which blocks do you have in silver? I'd be interested in taking a gander at anything made with such a wonderful metal.

I have a silver Cuplex XT for the CPU and a TwinPlex for the chipset. Still trying to get AC to make me a silver ASUS mosfet cooler so I can have silver blocks all the way around that particular loop. Haven't decided whether to order regular silver TwinPlex's or the TwinPlex Pro's for the GPU loop. I have the regular copper TwinPlex Pro's now.

Here on some pics of my silver XT:

BTW, I asked once about a silver Aquatube, but I think they couldn't get any silver round stock that big without putting in a mill order.

 

[madmat]

BTW, I asked once about a silver Aquatube, but I think they couldn't get any silver round stock that big without putting in a mill order.

Too bad they couldn't sand cast the body then mill it out...

 

[Punx_Clever]

TN... what you oughta do is get one of those copper tubes that have been made, then just send it off to be electroplated in silver. I know it's not quite the same thing, but it would LOOK the same.

 

[theseeker]

I have a silver Cuplex XT for the CPU and a TwinPlex for the chipset. Still trying to get AC to make me a silver ASUS mosfet cooler so I can have silver blocks all the way around that particular loop. Haven't decided whether to order regular silver TwinPlex's or the TwinPlex Pro's for the GPU loop. I have the regular copper TwinPlex Pro's now.

Here on some pics of my silver XT:

BTW, I asked once about a silver Aquatube, but I think they couldn't get any silver round stock that big without putting in a mill order.

In a word, GORGEOUS!

 

[phide]

I have a silver Cuplex XT for the CPU and a TwinPlex for the chipset. Still trying to get AC to make me a silver ASUS mosfet cooler so I can have silver blocks all the way around that particular loop.

Beautiful. Silver's just an exciting thing for me. Some guys see a Ferrari Modena drive buy and gawk, while I only typically gawk at silver baseplates (and good looking women, to a degree).

BTW, I asked once about a silver Aquatube, but I think they couldn't get any silver round stock that big without putting in a mill order.

You give up so easily Perhaps this is something you could talk to nikhsub about.

and i did some nijna edits to your post.

Hah. What's a ninja edit? Mayhaps something only true hardware ninjas do.

 

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

Hah. What's a ninja edit? Mayhaps something only true hardware ninjas do.

ninja edits are edits in others posts, when quoted, fixing spelling or logic errors. you said the RBX had three plates, it only has 2 and an accelerator nozzel.

 

[nikhsub1]

As you can see the panel of "experts" on this sub forum have no clue how waterblocks evolved to where they are today.

Umm, not true. I could school you all on the evolution of these blocks, but really don't care.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Umm, not true. I could school you all on the evolution of these blocks, but really don't care.

You are not included in the panel......... I speak of the "book smart" ones we have floating around with all of about no experience with more than one or two blocks yet they know everything about anything watercooling related.

BTW: have you ever made it to Dteks shop and met Danny? Boy does he have some stories going back before the Sprial.

 

[Erasmus354]

Some useful and pertinent information instead of useless bickering and shadow insults....

The review is being formatted now and should be up tonight or tomorrow (as of two hours ago). I am assuming it will be tomorrow.

 

[ikellensbro]

The review is being formatted now and should be up tonight or tomorrow (as of two hours ago). I am assuming it will be tomorrow.

Good...this thread is getting close to 300 (mostly useless) posts, and Kyle already closed one thread here today.

 

[Top Nurse]

TN... what you oughta do is get one of those copper tubes that have been made, then just send it off to be electroplated in silver. I know it's not quite the same thing, but it would LOOK the same.

I think it would be more difficult to get one of those copper tubes as they are very rare. Almost as my AC fan grills.

 

[Top Nurse]

Good...this thread is getting close to 300 (mostly useless) posts, and Kyle already closed one thread here today.

Well that thread's life was amazing since it is verbotten here to do stuff for your own gain (advertising).

 

[Top Nurse]

The review is being formatted now and should be up tonight or tomorrow (as of two hours ago). I am assuming it will be tomorrow.

Hey! I heard the same thing this afternoon. You been listening in on my phone line?

I don't think this review is going to settle anything on either side due to testing methodologies and I think important information wasn't presented. Perhaps an Aquaero review would pull it all together.

 

[Top Nurse]

Beautiful. Silver's just an exciting thing for me. Some guys see a Ferrari Modena drive buy and gawk, while I only typically gawk at silver baseplates (and good looking women, to a degree). You give up so easily Perhaps this is something you could talk to nikhsub about.

nikhsub said he would do it, but finding bar stock of that size is going to be difficult. Also who gets the machining chips. Maybe I get the tube and he keeps the scrap...

Here is my other silver block that goes on my chipset. This is before I lap the outside surfaces to a 2,000 grit finish. The bottom will be done to a 1200 grit finish. Then a little dremel tool work to polish it all up.

 

[theseeker]

Well that thread's life was amazing since it is verbotten here to do stuff for your own gain (advertising).

That was my fault.

 

[Top Nurse]

It's up: http://www.systemcooling.com

Let the mayhem begin.

 

[theseeker]

It's up: http://www.systemcooling.com

Let the mayhem begin.

You beat me to it by about 60 seconds!

 

[Erasmus354]

It's up: http://www.systemcooling.com

Let the mayhem begin.

Ha! I saw it first, except I was at the library waiting for the bus so I didn't bother posting here til I got back to my apt.

 

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

its on par with an xp120 with a panaflo L at 7v...impressive.

 

[theseeker]

I believe this says a lot.
Graph

 

[Top Nurse]

The essentials...

 

[plywood99]

I believe this says a lot.
Graph

I think this graph sums things up quite nicely.



Yup, Indeed! Good ole air putting the whoop on this setup. Just goes to show an excellent block paired with mediocre components equalls a mediocre water cooling system. By components I mean tubing, pump, rad, etc...



P.S. This review put quite a smile on my face. Looks like it is time for some folks, aka TN, RC, TS, to eat some good ole fashion crow. I reccommend Heintz 57 sauce to tame that wild taste...

 

[R1ckCa1n]

I think this graph sums things up quite nicely.



Yup, Indeed! Good ole air putting the whoop on this setup. Just goes to show an excellent block paired with mediocre components equalls a mediocre water cooling system. By components I mean tubing, pump, rad, etc...



P.S. This review put quite a smile on my face. Looks like it is time for some folks, aka TN, RC, TS, to eat some good ole fashion crow. I reccommend Heintz 57 sauce to tame that
wild taste...

Typical narrow minded response

Actually I think the review was great! Just as expected, it performed as good if not better than a Storm under apples to apples tests.

What did we learn? If a garden hose is connected to a Cuplex XT, it will perform as good if not better than any block on the market. At low flow, it still holds its own against the best large bore blocks.

What is not to like?

edit: the only thing I would like to see is the test with a thermochil or BIX radiator instead of that POS EVO rad. other than that, we have a winner!

 

[Top Nurse]

Well I saw some discrepancies in the testing on the big chart. The Aquastream pump was only shown at the standard flow rates which equals the Eheim 1046. I have no idea why they didn't show the different temps based on the three (3) OC settings available right on the pump controller. From what they said in the review it is apparent they didn't read the instructions showing how to do this because they inferred it could only be done with an Aquaero.