Swiftech Apogee Review.

[Top Nurse]

You forgot the Apologee comes with free shavings and has a top that cracks easily.

QFT! Hahahahahahahahahahahaha whew! Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[DFI Daishi]

That is not a hard thing to do

quite. i do it all the time myself.

then again, you keep buying DFI, so which one of us really spends more time shooting themself in the foot?

That is the best money I have spent to date. There is a reason I sold my G4 and Storm block. They are not better in a real world system, MINE, than that german product! Remeber, I can care less about 1-2c if it nets no ZERO performance.

so why are you criticizing others for paying extra because it gerts them added cooling, when you pay extra for something because it is made in germany? the G4 and storm don't do better in your system because something else is holding you back. you touch on that a bit later, yourself. rather than knocking the higher performance cooling, why not act to remedy some of the other issues that are limiting you from taking advantage of it?

Come on... I will pay twice as much for German engineering if that means I get an Aquaero, Tubemeter, etc to interact with my system instead of a bunch of bulky tubing which equals ZERO performance/fucntion increase.

in contrast to that, i would say that you are paying twice as much for the Aquaero, Tubemeter and aquastream, all of which equal ZERO increase in performance in functionality as compared to moderately sized tubing and carefully selected components.

I don't know if you have noticed but I am not the minority anymore reqarding this subject.

i don't know if you have noticed that a lot of people have just stopped posting because they are sick of the constant back and forth between people such as myself and people such as yourself in threads that they have created. no, i'm not placing the onus on you, it takes two to tango. that being said, i think that you are most certainly not speaking for the majority of watercoolers, because the majority of watercoolers are young and don't have $500 US to throw at their cooling solution alone. have you ever noticed the number of budget cooling thread that crop up?

Me too. Cathar used to post the same type of ideas in OCForums too. He always equated his new block worth based on improved temps and if he was able to overclock his system more. That I can buy into.

finally a point that we can agree on. this a a great goal for designing new blocks. will you at least agree that it's not something that you can base a review of competing products around? the results that cathar's blocks and rads put up show that this is certainly a good point of view to keep in mind while developing equipment, but you can't really test and evaluate with this in mind, at present.

Nothing more than real world results based on my hardware. Remember, that is all that matters at the end of the day. Good results equate to feeling good about a purchase.

so, if one scientist poped up and told you that he has a theory that shatters conventional thinking on friction, and that he is looking for startup capital to develop an engine that uses it, with only one set of measurements, based on equipment that he turns by hand and measurese by feel, how seriously would you take him?

that is about the level of precision that you have going in your machine, relatively speaking.

i hope that the A-C block that TN arranged to get shipped to the US for testing makes it onto robotech's test bench as well. if it performs, then it performs. if it doesn't, it doesn't. we will have good numbers to look at when we consider how well it ranks as compared to other blocks.

That is the joke in testing. People flock to buy a new and improved block and don't realize their RAM, power supply, motherboard, or CPU is holding them back. They rush to say "I GOT 1C BETTER TEMPS" but fail to realize it did ZERO to improve performance. Isn't that why most people watercool and use pelters? I for one feel like I wasted money when I put something new in my system unless it results in better performance or functionality.

hey, if i have not previously made it clear, then let me do so now: i think that premium cooling is almost the last thing you should buy as a computer upgrade.

vid card, then motherboard, then CPU, then ram, then raid, then cooling, then PSU, is about how i think that money should be added to a computer's parts cost, at this point. at least, that's how i think that it should go for a gamer system.

my experiences with pelt on budget hardware have NOT resulted in performance increases that put me ahead of an equivalent amount of money spent on higher performing parts.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

have you ever noticed the number of budget cooling thread that crop up?

No but I see alot of AC questions and new AC users cropping up on this forum. Look at the non stickied thread with the most views and replies.......... That says something about what is most interesting on this sub forum.

 

[Bio-Hazard]

You forgot the Apologee comes with free shavings and has a top that cracks easily.

edit: You are very correct about number 4. Without him pushing the watercooling envelope we would all still be stuck with a Maze4!

For those of you with concerns about the shavings and weak top. Lee posted this over on the System cooling forums about the problems.

"I contacted Swiftech and expressed my concerns about the shavings and thickness of the top housing. I was not surprised to receive an immediate reply and hear they were already aware of the concerns, had investigated them in-house, and have implemented corrective action where necessary. Here is a direct quote from Gabe:"

You'll have to go there to read the answers................

But like I said before, my block came shaving free..................

http://www.systemcooling.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3903&st=0&#entry33118

 

[DFI Daishi]

No but I see alot of AC questions and new AC users cropping up on this forum. Look at the non stickied thread with the most views and replies.......... That says something about what is most interesting on this sub forum.

it would be interested to have a look at the forum stats to see how many posta are made daily about A-C related topics vs. everything else. unfortunately, for some crazy reason, the forum is not really set up to let me do an accurate measure of that.

how abot this: out of the 20 non-sticky threads on the watercooling first page, how much time is spent with more than one thread OTHER than "the A-C discussion thread" related to A-C products displayed? if there was another thread up all the time, that would account for roughly 10% of the most current threads, but you people don't always have even that much up and current.

what i DO see in terms of the A-C thread staying up at the top without it being a sticky is a dedicated group of fans discussing A-C equipment, and not wanting to deal with harsh outside commentary. the thread is kept at such a high level by several people CONSTANTLY contributing to it, so that they don't have to defend their statements as rigorously as they would have to in a public setting.

you folks are a minority who hold a position which is difficult to defend, and i have this sneaking suspicion that you would be even more in a minority on other forums.

which block is best? that's a values judgement, that is guarenteed to spark debate around here.

shipping blocks containing metal shavings, with tops that crack easily? that's gold. pure gold. it's the kind of thing that we can all rally around in righous indignation, and make fun of.

 

[plywood99]

For those of you with concerns about the shavings and weak top. Lee posted this over on the System cooling forums about the problems.

"I contacted Swiftech and expressed my concerns about the shavings and thickness of the top housing. I was not surprised to receive an immediate reply and hear they were already aware of the concerns, had investigated them in-house, and have implemented corrective action where necessary. Here is a direct quote from Gabe:"

You'll have to go there to read the answers................

http://www.systemcooling.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3903&st=0&#entry33118

Read that earlier today. The part where Gabe mentions giving the lady who inspects the blocks a magnifying glass had me cracking up. That's some real good QC going on there.

Personally, only time will tell if the QC and the top are decent enough. The cross section Robotech made does "appear" to make the top look poor. But so far only one reported bad top.

And it is clear since Swiftech went public, they are now pursuing a cost cutting agenda at the cost of quality.

 

[Erasmus354]

No but I see alot of AC questions and new AC users cropping up on this forum. Look at the non stickied thread with the most views and replies.......... That says something about what is most interesting on this sub forum.

I believe it was cathar a couple months ago who showed that 60% of the posts in that thread come from one person (guess who). I would guess another 20% come from two to three others. So what does that really show, that AC users are the majority or that they are a very vocal minority?

 

[Flak_Monkey]

For those of you with concerns about the shavings and weak top. Lee posted this over on the System cooling forums about the problems.

"I contacted Swiftech and expressed my concerns about the shavings and thickness of the top housing. I was not surprised to receive an immediate reply and hear they were already aware of the concerns, had investigated them in-house, and have implemented corrective action where necessary. Here is a direct quote from Gabe:"

You'll have to go there to read the answers................

But like I said before, my block came shaving free..................

http://www.systemcooling.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3903&st=0&#entry33118

You see, Swiftech is already aware of the problem and looks like they are already correcting it.

You skeptics will see that swiftech is a quality company that would not let something like this go on unattended. They just have too much of a reputation to lose.


Although the 'lady with a magnifying glass' was quite a chuckle..

 

[Erasmus354]

You see, Swiftech is already aware of the problem and looks like they are already correcting it.

You skeptics will see that swiftech is a quality company that would not let something like this go on unattended. They just have too much of a reputation to lose.


Although the 'lady with a magnifying glass' was quite a chuckle..

The problems with the Apogee (not apologee has you fanAtiCs like to call it) are not much different than the problems AC had with some of their blocks. You know the biggest difference? Swiftech is much easier to deal with than AC, and is easier to get in contact with. It may be due in part to AC being foreign based, but the fact is both companies have had miscues....give it a rest guys.

 

[DFI Daishi]

You see, Swiftech is already aware of the problem and looks like they are already correcting it.

You skeptics will see that swiftech is a quality company that would not let something like this go on unattended. They just have too much of a reputation to lose.


Although the 'lady with a magnifying glass' was quite a chuckle..

swiftech garnered that reputation befoe they started farming out production and targeting cheaper production for better profit margins. i will be quite happy if the fix their current problems with warrenty and manufacturing, however i am not sure that they will do so to my satisfaction.

 

[DFI Daishi]

The problems with the Apogee (not apologee has you fanAtiCs like to call it) are not much different than the problems AC had with some of their blocks. You know the biggest difference? Swiftech is much easier to deal with than AC, and is easier to get in contact with. It may be due in part to AC being foreign based, but the fact is both companies have had miscues....give it a rest guys.

have you had good experiences with swiftech warrenty? i'm asking quite seriously, because i have been hearing bad things about their warrenty dept. recently.

until the apparent quality issues with the apogee have been resolved, i have no problem with the misnomer apologee.....it actually brings back fond memories of classic dracula, for me.

 

[Erasmus354]

have you had good experiences with swiftech warrenty? i'm asking quite seriously, because i have been hearing bad things about their warrenty dept. recently.

I was referring to manufacturing miscues and subsequently correcting them, I never mentioned warranties. Although I would guess that it couldn't be any harder than trying to fulfill a warranty on a product with a company overseas.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

which block is best? that's a values judgement, that is guarenteed to spark debate around here.

We AGREE~~~! But I will let my continued purchase and testing in my rig decide what blocks stays installed Wanna buy a Storm block for cheap DFI?

 

[DFI Daishi]

I was referring to manufacturing miscues and subsequently correcting them, I never mentioned warranties. Although I would guess that it couldn't be any harder than trying to fulfill a warranty on a product with a company overseas.

it doesn't even have to be overseas: just across a national border will do.

dealing with asus or abit US offices is a ROYAL PITA, from the canadian side of the border. in contrast, i have gotten equipment from italy quickly and without hassle. it's just my take in it, but roughly 5 days and comperable shipping costs to get a flashed bios chip, and a bios saviour from italy as compared to 6 weeks from asus US office........you know what, i'll take dealing with a company overseas as opposed to going through US customs any day of the week.

as for the warrenty dept itself being difficult......swiftech has been putting users through the gears of late, and i don't have a basis of comparison for A-C's treatment of users.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

I was referring to manufacturing miscues and subsequently correcting them

You think a lady holding a BIGGER magnifying glass is going to fix the problem? I gotta bridge for sale too. LOL

as for the warrenty dept itself being difficult......swiftech has been putting users through the gears of late, and i don't have a basis of comparison for A-C's treatment of users.

the ONE problem I had was handled by the local US based reseller so it wasn't a problem at all...... Sorry to hear Switty is hard to deal with regarding warranty stuff.

 

[DFI Daishi]

We AGREE~~~! But I will let my continued purchase and testing in my rig decide what blocks stays installed Wanna buy a Storm block for cheap DFI?

you KNOW what the name does to me!!!!!!!!

:=| (me with a "hitler" mustachio. unfortunate, given my earlier nazi reference, and german heritage)

it's okay for me to say that, right? i mean, my sister is a mexican jew-lizard and all, so i have some degree of ethnicity, right? http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/11/07 (i'm a total WASP, and yet she turn's freaking orange when exposed to sunlinght. what other LOGICAL explanation is there?)

it wouldn't be cheap by the time that it got to my side of the border anyway.

regardless of my wants or desires, a new semester looms, with tuition to be paid, books to be purchased, a car that is not always starting when i need it to, and dwindling savings from a summer in the factory.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

you KNOW what the name does to me!!!!!!!!

LOL.. sorry didn't realize that one!

 

[DarkenReaper57]

I'd like to see the apogee and the storm compared on a real athlon 64 without the IHS at variable voltages. It would be interesting.

I've wondered about getting a new waterblock, but my D-tek WW serves me just fine. Heck, it is still one of the better performing blocks out there, even if it is a generation or two old.

 

[Erasmus354]

You think a lady holding a BIGGER magnifying glass is going to fix the problem? I gotta bridge for sale too. LOL

Once again twisting my words big surprise there. Since you seem to be privileged to such information, why is Swiftech not going to change the way they manufacture the things to correct the problem? AC changed the way they lapped their blocks when it was brought to their attention that they were concave.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Once again twisting my words big surprise there. Since you seem to be privileged to such information, why is Swiftech not going to change the way they manufacture the things to correct the problem? AC changed the way they lapped their blocks when it was brought to their attention that they were concave.

Man you act like you own stock in Swiftech..... Easy young lad, it is only a joke. Trust me, I was pissed at AC when they did something similar with the first batch of XT's.

 

[Erasmus354]

Man you act like you own stock in Swiftech..... Easy young lad, it is only a joke. Trust me, I was pissed at AC when they did something similar with the first batch of XT's.

I could care less about your opinion of swiftech. To take a line from Family Guy; What really grinds my gears is when people constantly twist my words around and distort what I am saying.

 

[Flak_Monkey]

why is Swiftech not going to change the way they manufacture the things to correct the problem? AC changed the way they lapped their blocks when it was brought to their attention that they were concave.

Erm....

Did you already not see what Bio-Hazard posted? They have already identified the problem and are already fixing it now.


Did you not see that?

 

[Top Nurse]

The problems with the Apogee (not apologee has you fanAtiCs like to call it) are not much different than the problems AC had with some of their blocks. You know the biggest difference? Swiftech is much easier to deal with than AC, and is easier to get in contact with. It may be due in part to AC being foreign based

You my friend are talking out of your ass on this one. The day it happened that we reported to AC I got a response the same day from the President of Aqua Computer (Stephan Wille) saying that it was not the quality we should expect from them and they would take immediate steps to correct the problem. IIRC it was also a weekend or holiday to boot. AFAIK the problem doesn't exist anymore on any of their blocks that I have seen since then.

Added: They didn't deny it nor try to justify how good it really was by hitting it with a hammer, which Swiftech seems quite enamoured with of late. Must be a case of hammerphilia. .

 

[Top Nurse]

The problems with the Apogee (not apologee has you fanAtiCs like to call it)

I believe that term was coined by a person that had no connection to AC use.

 

[Top Nurse]

I believe it was cathar a couple months ago who showed that 60% of the posts in that thread come from one person (guess who). I would guess another 20% come from two to three others. So what does that really show, that AC users are the majority or that they are a very vocal minority?

That was because he adjusted the numbers to suit his own interpetation of his view. Not an uncommon occurence by those that try to make a point. However, just for grins I thought I would post the actual results here on the new AC thread. Please keep in mind that I am one of a few people who has the inclination to help others who want to know more about AC products so it is only natural I would be posting a lot in this thread. However I still only account for about 1/3 of the posts. So we have here a total of 1,018 posts correct? So how do you account for the fact that with only 1,018 posts there are already 23,011 views of this thread? On the old AC thread we had over 2,632 posts and in excess of 100,000 views. :

Seems like a pretty popular subject if you ask me.

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 1,018
User Name Posts
Top Nurse 365
R1ckCa1n 61
Shoggy 56
Dillusion 51
J-Mag 47
WarlordBB 39
el rolio 34
Happy Hopping 28
J-Pepper 28
ShoNuff 25
Toonage 25
Aviddigi tamsco 20
theseeker 16
shoney 15
eumskickin 12
chronic9 10
Bio-Hazard 10
headala 10
mj007 10
BlueAqua 9
J-M-E 9
badash 8
nigely 7
Master Ninja 7
Derrick70 7
modsquad2 7
L1ght 5
endscape 5
GokuSSL 5
Pooky 5
Scroatdog 4
ikellensbro 4
BioPort 4
tbooth 4
Bevous 3
Yellowsnow17 3
Mysterae 3
tress 3
UnrealRage 3
Hard911 3
sleepydano 3
lemmy 3
vapb400 3
canislupy 2
topcat989 2
Nobody 2
vectra-le 2
revenant 2
A_N_D_Y 2
Kared 2
object88 2
SignalSoldier 2
fore1337 2
CrimandEvil 2
amalgamas 1
Erasmus354 1
NielPeel 1
madmat 1
hoobie7 1
Majin 1
BitchBreaker 1
Zxcs 1
TehRoflcopter 1
dgkulzer 1
Bite-Me-2 1
nikhsub1 1
stumpy 1
Infina 1
alex paik 1
Ctrl_Alt_Delete 1
CAD OC'er

 

[Bio-Hazard]

That was because he adjusted the numbers to suit his own interpetation of his view. Not an uncommon occurence by those that try to make a point. However, just for grins I thought I would post the actual results here on the new AC thread. Please keep in mind that I am one of a few people who has the inclination to help others who want to know more about AC products so it is only natural I would be posting a lot in this thread. However I still only account for about 1/3 of the posts. So we have here a total of 1,018 posts correct? So how do you account for the fact that with only 1,018 posts there are already 23,011 views of this thread? On the old AC thread we had over 2,632 posts and in excess of 100,000 views. :

Seems like a pretty popular subject if you ask me.

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 1,018
User Name Posts
Top Nurse 365
R1ckCa1n 61
Shoggy 56
Dillusion 51
J-Mag 47
WarlordBB 39
el rolio 34
Happy Hopping 28
J-Pepper 28
ShoNuff 25
Toonage 25
Aviddigi tamsco 20
theseeker 16
shoney 15
eumskickin 12
chronic9 10
Bio-Hazard 10
headala 10
mj007 10
BlueAqua 9
J-M-E 9
badash 8
nigely 7
Master Ninja 7
Derrick70 7
modsquad2 7
L1ght 5
endscape 5
GokuSSL 5
Pooky 5
Scroatdog 4
ikellensbro 4
BioPort 4
tbooth 4
Bevous 3
Yellowsnow17 3
Mysterae 3
tress 3
UnrealRage 3
Hard911 3
sleepydano 3
lemmy 3
vapb400 3
canislupy 2
topcat989 2
Nobody 2
vectra-le 2
revenant 2
A_N_D_Y 2
Kared 2
object88 2
SignalSoldier 2
fore1337 2
CrimandEvil 2
amalgamas 1
Erasmus354 1
NielPeel 1
madmat 1
hoobie7 1
Majin 1
BitchBreaker 1
Zxcs 1
TehRoflcopter 1
dgkulzer 1
Bite-Me-2 1
nikhsub1 1
stumpy 1
Infina 1
alex paik 1
Ctrl_Alt_Delete 1
CAD OC'er

And who really cares..................I know for me, I could give a crap less.......... And for all those thread views, I stop by and look to get a good laugh at so of the foolishness...............it's always good for a chuckel from time to time.

 

[DFI Daishi]

Erm....

Did you already not see what Bio-Hazard posted? They have already identified the problem and are already fixing it now.


Did you not see that?

just since it seems that you are haveing trouble understanding what is written: he was saying that he thinks that swiftech IS going to fix the problem in a timely manner, in much the same way that A-C fixed theirs.

i'm the one expressing doubt about them fixing their problems in a timely manner, not him.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

That was because he adjusted the numbers to suit his own interpetation of his view. Not an uncommon occurence by those that try to make a point. However, just for grins I thought I would post the actual results here on the new AC thread. Please keep in mind that I am one of a few people who has the inclination to help others who want to know more about AC products so it is only natural I would be posting a lot in this thread. However I still only account for about 1/3 of the posts. So we have here a total of 1,018 posts correct? So how do you account for the fact that with only 1,018 posts there are already 23,011 views of this thread? On the old AC thread we had over 2,632 posts and in excess of 100,000 views. :

Seems like a pretty popular subject if you ask me.

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 1,018
User Name Posts
Top Nurse 365
R1ckCa1n 61
Shoggy 56
Dillusion 51
J-Mag 47
WarlordBB 39
el rolio 34
Happy Hopping 28
J-Pepper 28
ShoNuff 25
Toonage 25
Aviddigi tamsco 20
theseeker 16
shoney 15
eumskickin 12
chronic9 10
Bio-Hazard 10
headala 10
mj007 10
BlueAqua 9
J-M-E 9
badash 8
nigely 7
Master Ninja 7
Derrick70 7
modsquad2 7
L1ght 5
endscape 5
GokuSSL 5
Pooky 5
Scroatdog 4
ikellensbro 4
BioPort 4
tbooth 4
Bevous 3
Yellowsnow17 3
Mysterae 3
tress 3
UnrealRage 3
Hard911 3
sleepydano 3
lemmy 3
vapb400 3
canislupy 2
topcat989 2
Nobody 2
vectra-le 2
revenant 2
A_N_D_Y 2
Kared 2
object88 2
SignalSoldier 2
fore1337 2
CrimandEvil 2
amalgamas 1
Erasmus354 1
NielPeel 1
madmat 1
hoobie7 1
Majin 1
BitchBreaker 1
Zxcs 1
TehRoflcopter 1
dgkulzer 1
Bite-Me-2 1
nikhsub1 1
stumpy 1
Infina 1
alex paik 1
Ctrl_Alt_Delete 1
CAD OC'er

LOL PWNED!

 

[Double Jesus]

not really... if you add up yours, TN's, bio's and 3-4 others then it accounts for at least 60% of the posts...

anyway this thread probably needs to die off or get back on topic haha

 

[Flak_Monkey]

You're saying he said that:

he was saying that he thinks that swiftech IS going to fix the problem in a timely manner, in much the same way that A-C fixed theirs.

In that?

why is Swiftech not going to change the way they manufacture the things to correct the problem? AC changed the way they lapped their blocks when it was brought to their attention that they were concave.

I guess I totally missed it

 

[Erasmus354]

winston, there is a commonly used tool in the english language known as a rhetorical question.....


As for the Apogee and Swiftech, Daishi is right, I was saying that Swiftech hasnt even been given a chance to rectify the situation. AC fans seem to be grasping at straws and using anything they can to shoot down any company that isn't german or makes acrylic topped copper blocks


About the AC thread.... I think Cathar said it best

Of the 2180 posts in that thread, the top 10 posters in that thread, preceded by their number of posts are:

477 Top Nurse
231 nt|Mods
144 BitchBreaker
141 R1ckCa1n
91 Aviddigi
70 Captin Insano
65 Shoggy
62 MFZ
52 stumpy
50 Pooky

Fully 61% of that thread consists of the same 10 people. Interesting that the #1 poster in that thread accounts for 22% of its existence.

There are 132 separate posters in that thread, however if we discount all those who made 4 comments or less, there are 53 "regular" participants who account for 92% of the posts in that thread.

The existence of a single mega-thread doesn't prove much at all, apart from that it is an ongoing topic shared by a small number of posters about something which they'd like to know more about - which is fine. What is interesting though is the frequency of a very small number of posters who basically keep the thread alive, which again, is fine, but doesn't prove much other than these same small number of posters simply wish to continue posting in that thread.

The new thread follows the same exact trend as the old one....except that TN now accounts for a much larger % of the posts.

 

[Top Nurse]

And who really cares..................I know for me, I could give a crap less.......... And for all those thread views, I stop by and look to get a good laugh at so of the foolishness...............it's always good for a chuckel from time to time.

I don't really give a rats ass, but the subject was brought up so I responded. Oh and thanks for stopping by to help out with the popularity of AC products.

 

[Top Nurse]

not really... if you add up yours, TN's, bio's and 3-4 others then it accounts for at least 60% of the posts...

anyway this thread probably needs to die off or get back on topic haha

First sentence: Again you can jumble the numbers around to come up with anything you want to just like Cathar did. Which was the reason I posted the complete list as you can't argue this kind of nonsense with the raw data. What was that famous quote about "lies, damned lies, and statistics"?

Second sentence: I agree

 

[Flak_Monkey]

I think some people are forgetting that the Apogee was made for dual core CPU's like AMD's X2. While the STORM was made for single core CPU's.

You'll notice that while looking at the STORM, the 'pins' are all concentrated towards the center of the block. The Apogee's on the other hand are spread throughout the entire surface area of the block.

I would not expect a block made for dual core CPU's to perform better than a block made for single core CPU's.

 

[DFI Daishi]

I think some people are forgetting that the Apogee was made for dual core CPU's like AMD's X2. While the STORM was made for single core CPU's.

You'll notice that while looking at the STORM, the 'pins' are all concentrated towards the center of the block. The Apogee's on the other hand are spread throughout the entire surface area of the block.

I would not expect a block made for dual core CPU's to perform better than a block made for single core CPU's.

once again, and i DID point this out once already, robotech tested the storm and apogee on both single and dual core heat dies.

http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_apogee-10.html

the apogee got it's fair shot at what swiftech said is it's strength, and it STILL got spanked, both by the 6002, which it is supposed to replace, and the storm, which it is supposed to rival.

now, to be fair, all high level blocks should perform so close to one-another that your CPU thermal diode can't resolve the difference, which really shows through sticking the blocks on a real proc.

 

[Top Nurse]

I think some people are forgetting that the Apogee was made for dual core CPU's like AMD's X2. While the STORM was made for single core CPU's.

You'll notice that while looking at the STORM, the 'pins' are all concentrated towards the center of the block. The Apogee's on the other hand are spread throughout the entire surface area of the block.

I would not expect a block made for dual core CPU's to perform better than a block made for single core CPU's.

Actually this was discussed a while back and it was felt that increasing the pin surface wouldn't make any difference in a dual core CPU.

 

[Pherret]

I for one am sorry to see the 6000 series go. It realy shows that inexpensive doesn't mean bad performance.

American vs german (well just plain everyone else) thing has gone back a long way. All it comes down too realy is different styles with slightly different ideas of what perfection is.

But when it comes right down to it when comparing big bore power vs light nimble and peppy sure they have their differences, but will a Mustang get you from point A to point B? Will a Boxter get you from point A to point B?

No ifs ands or buts allowed. They are yes or no questions.


Then like I hinted at before. What is perfection?

There are as many answers as there are people. And they will even be second guessing themselvs.

Now as far as the topic goes...

I think the drastic measures used by swiftech when pushing the Apogee out probably reflects internal struggles. Most likely to keep the company afloat.
-Badmouthing a company for making a profit is like "telling someone off" for breathing.
-There is a technological curve at which a company must stay behind, it is never profitable to sell true bleeding-edge products in just about any scale. I think the storm was outside that curve, and swiftech was just testing their boundries.

One thing I am interested about is that swiftech is starting to delve into the idea of flux. A true theoretical term that can seem like explaining everything and nothing (and thus easily misconstrued). I think flux can explain alot of things about heat conduction that we have yet to touch upon in pc cooling, and definately has something to do with the stuff below.

The ihs itself doesn't make heat, only the core. So testing with a large ihs sized element is far from true cpu cooling Ill give you that. The ihs could spread the heat enough to bring heat away from the main hot spots of the core, so the smaller core sized element could be a fairly good representation. But the entire arguement realy depends on what the flux "looks" like. The problem is that both different "active cooling areas" of a cooler's base and different overall temperatures can effect flux. So the only way to tell true differences between cooling capabilities is to test it on the part in question. A real cpu. Though its a toss up because real cpu testing is not realy possable at this moment.

 

[Erasmus354]

I for one am sorry to see the 6000 series go. It realy shows that inexpensive doesn't mean bad performance.

American vs german (well just plain everyone else) thing has gone back a long way. All it comes down too realy is different styles with slightly different ideas of what perfection is.

But when it comes right down to it when comparing big bore power vs light nimble and peppy sure they have their differences, but will a Mustang get you from point A to point B? Will a Boxter get you from point A to point B?

No ifs ands or buts allowed. They are yes or no questions.


Then like I hinted at before. What is perfection?

There are as many answers as there are people. And they will even be second guessing themselvs.

Now as far as the topic goes...

I think the drastic measures used by swiftech when pushing the Apogee out probably reflects internal struggles. Most likely to keep the company afloat.
-Badmouthing a company for making a profit is like "telling someone off" for breathing.
-There is a technological curve at which a company must stay behind, it is never profitable to sell true bleeding-edge products in just about any scale. I think the storm was outside that curve, and swiftech was just testing their boundries.

One thing I am interested about is that swiftech is starting to delve into the idea of flux. A true theoretical term that can seem like explaining everything and nothing (and thus easily misconstrued). I think flux can explain alot of things about heat conduction that we have yet to touch upon in pc cooling, and definately has something to do with the stuff below.

The ihs itself doesn't make heat, only the core. So testing with a large ihs sized element is far from true cpu cooling Ill give you that. The ihs could spread the heat enough to bring heat away from the main hot spots of the core, so the smaller core sized element could be a fairly good representation. But the entire arguement realy depends on what the flux "looks" like. The problem is that both different "active cooling areas" of a cooler's base and different overall temperatures can effect flux. So the only way to tell true differences between cooling capabilities is to test it on the part in question. A real cpu. Though its a toss up because real cpu testing is not realy possable at this moment.

Very well said, although flux? I thought swiftech was just talking about flex, as in the base plate has a bit of flex to it.

 

[DFI Daishi]

Actually this was discussed a while back and it was felt that increasing the pin surface wouldn't make any difference in a dual core CPU.

it was nice to see it hold true in the independant review as well.

 

[Cathar]

I think some people are forgetting that the Apogee was made for dual core CPU's like AMD's X2. While the STORM was made for single core CPU's.

Incorrect.

The Storm was made to cool CPU dies, whether or not covered with an IHS, of anything up to 400mm^2 in size, and anything up to 25mm in length in one direction.

If you can find me a dual-core CPU die with a 400mm^2 die size, or that has a primary dimension longer than 25mm, then you have a point.

Dual-core CPU's look just like Single Core CPU's. Heck, even some of the newer dual core CPU die sizes are smaller than older technology single core CPU die sizes.