Ok, so in a long lineage of bad luck with hard drives this year (have had 2 lappy drives & a 250 Gig die on my) I've got this Maxtor DiamondMax 160 that worked great one day, and not at all the next day on an external caddy. It worked great, the next day it won't even spin up - but a chip on the board gets really hot which leads me to think maybe ESD damage - the drive wasn't dropped or jostled at all between working and non-working states, just shut off. This drive has quite a bit of info I'd *really* like to have back, so would it be possible to get a matching diamondmax 160 from ebay/FS/FT and swap the control boards on them? Anybody ever tried this?
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Swapping HD boards? Possible?
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Komataguri
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its been done, to varrying degrees of success, IIRC
It can be done, but you'd be lucky to get it right on the first try or two without knowing what you're looking for. Flip the drive over so the PCB is facing up. Now look at the stickers on the plastic connector part of the PCB (the bottom right if the chars are right side up). Find the barcode with the 5 or 6 character string directly below it, something like 'B4GBA' or 'M8FYA'. You'll want to match that when buying a parts drive.
BillR
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The lack of spin up bothers me, as a rule thats not a chip.
I might suggest the freezer method in hope of un-sticking a stuck bearing, if it doesnt work nothing is damaged.
You might also try the tapping method, gently of course on the bottom bearing as a way of un-sticking as well. Tapping on each corner of the drive is sometimes effective as well, again, nothing lost or damaged if youre gentle
If that lets you recover your data you can do your RMA, assuming it can be RMAd.
I might suggest the freezer method in hope of un-sticking a stuck bearing, if it doesnt work nothing is damaged.
You might also try the tapping method, gently of course on the bottom bearing as a way of un-sticking as well. Tapping on each corner of the drive is sometimes effective as well, again, nothing lost or damaged if youre gentle
If that lets you recover your data you can do your RMA, assuming it can be RMAd.
BillR said:
You're recommending dangerous solutions which could destroy all of his data. There's no such thing as 'gentle' when the HDA is resting directly on the platter surface. If you've ever held a head assembly in your hand you'd know how fragile they are and what a little tapping might do. But don't take my word for it, listen to the professionals: http://forums.actionfront.com/showthread.php?t=456 (last post)
All you can do is try it. I've had an 80GB maxtor that didn't spin up one day and found a broken 40GB one in the FS/FT forums that was from the same family of drives. When everything was assembled, the drive worked and I recovered my data. Best 10 bucks I ever spent.
Vertigo Acid
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davidlem said:
A quick check on a hard drive I deal with a lot (ST336607LW) shows that it is designed for a max non-operating shock of 225 Gs. While I wouldn't suggest that you do it to a working drive, if it's already borked, why not?
morpheus6d9
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ive done that before ymmv
Vertigo Acid said:
A quick check on a hard drive I deal with a lot (ST336607LW) shows that it is designed for a max non-operating shock of 225 Gs. While I wouldn't suggest that you do it to a working drive, if it's already borked, why not?
Because while it may not spin, there's still a good chance that the platters are in good condition. Now, if you go beating on the drive at any level you're likely to cause 'head slap'. This will do physical damage and cannot be reversed. Take a look at this chart from Quantum Corp. http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/perf/qual/z_q_shockevents.gif
I still say go for the PCB swap before anything else. RiX2357 had the right idea.
Vertigo Acid
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Shock level of getting hit with a hammer != the force used while doing the taping method
Try to get drives as close as possible to each other, some makes are more sensitive than others to revision changes etc. Take things slow and be very careful... oh and have a decent set of torquex (or however it's spelt) keys about.
Erms, aren't all drives delayed spin-up capable, thus silicone damage could quite easily kill spin-up?BillR said:
Vertigo Acid
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Don't know where you got that idea from....StoneNewt said:
it's never been in the IDE spec, and is in the SATA-IO and upcoming SATA 2.5 spec but not really implimented anywhere. SCSI/FC is the only place you'll find delayed spin-up
capable not available, I just seem to remember someone (from somewhere like Seagate) saying that most drives more-or-less just needed a firmware update to implement delayed spin-up (and and of course some kind if controller side implementation too)
BillR
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davidlem said:
Nowhere did I suggest beating on the drive. I said, gentle tap. Done with a plastic mallet and done right it will not leave dents or marks. Anyone who hits a drive hard enough to leave marks should leave all service work to a tech and keep his/her computer case closed.
I am very aware of how close the heads are to the platters. Are you aware that when in the off state the heads are parked and not over or near the platters?
If the drive is already out of warrantee then by all means remove the cover and try to get the platters spinning, but only touch the center spindle of the drive, not the platter surface.
I do my best to assume that not everyone seeking help is a total klutz and has some common sense
BillR said:
Sorry man but you're wrong here. Maxtor does not use off-platter head parking blocks like IBM/Hitachi. So yes, his heads are resting directly on the platters, near the center by the spindle. This is assuming the heads haven't stuck to the platter somewhere else other than where they belong when powered-off.
See here: http://www.laptops4me.com/images/pict/HD-MX160BM_LG.gif
THAT is the powered-off, parked position. Directly on the platters.
BillR said:
You're also terribly wrong here, as noted earlier by StoneNewt. It absolutely could be a chip or as simple as a fuse on this model and many others.
BillR
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davidlem said:
No matter how you cut it Maxtor still uses a landing zone for parking their heads. On power down a spring pulls them to that zone, an unused part of the platters (hopefully before the platters stop spinning)
It wasnt a fuse that stopped the other drive in question, it was a diode that had been broken off the board. Again, far different then a chip gone bad.
Since we have no further information from the OP none of us still have a clue what might be wrong with this drive so everything else is speculation at this point.
You might want to double check the Parking system used on some Hitachi drives, it is the same as the Maxtors. Maxtor has had a problem for quite some time with drives that run 24/7 at high temps and then when shut down the heads actually stick to the platters due to their parking scheme, perhaps this is part of the OPs problem as well.
BillR said:
There are no springs in Maxtor drives. Again, I don't know where you get your information from. You've changed your mind from when you earlier said...
I said a fuse or a chip could cause the drive motor to not spin. Other possibilities are bad solder joints, broken molex pins, failed diode...should I go on? My point was that you were incorrect when you suggested...
I'll give you that, but at the same time hows about we recommend suggestions based on fact, not misinformation.
Wrong wrong wrong wrongity wrong wrong. The heads on Hitachi drives actually leave the platter assembly completely, instead resting on a plastic 'block' with ramps that allow smooth transition on and off the platters. See below...
http://images.tigerdirect.com/SKUimages/medium/THD-400H.jpg
Its not the molex, I checked power in at the PCB and got +5 and +12 where it should be with my dmm. As I said a chip warms up but there isn't any spin-up, so I assume that the chip is toast, I haven't yet pulled the cover to see if the drive is locked up but will try that later today (forgot my tiny bit set at home when I moved into my dorm, went back home this past weekend and brought it back with me)
BillR
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I have two customers Maxtor drives sitting here, eaten alive in the landing zone area, heads totally ruined due to head sticktion. Both drives, once I unstuck the heads spring back to the center spindle area.
I grabbed a dead Hitachi drive, about a year old, also dead and took it apart and found the same thing.
After that I did a google search which supported what I both suspected and posted.
Although Maxtor seems to claim theirs is a better way from all the drives I replace here that just doesnt seem to be the case.
I grabbed a dead Hitachi drive, about a year old, also dead and took it apart and found the same thing.
After that I did a google search which supported what I both suspected and posted.
Although Maxtor seems to claim theirs is a better way from all the drives I replace here that just doesnt seem to be the case.
Take it from someone who's opened hundreds of Maxtor drives, there is *no* spring that brings the drive back to it's parking position. It's all done by magnetism for the most part.
As davidlem pointed out modern 3.5" Hitachi/IBM drives and most modern 2.5" notebook drives have plastic parking blocks where the heads rest. Stiction is not something that can be "fixed" by tapping on a drive.
Modern 3.5" drives *rarely* suffer from stiction. A typical drive that does not spin up either has a failed PCB (whether it be the spindle controller, fuse, etc..) or a seized drive motor bearing (FDB). The latter is becoming more and more typical and I can guarantee there's *nothing* that can be done outside of clean room data recovery services.
Suggestions from "techs" like you are why more and more drives become unrecoverable. Tapping on a drive will not bring your typical 40GB+ drive back to life, you'll only cause tiny pits in the platters that will eventually evolve into a catastrophic head crash.
To botboy -> Do not open your drive. Is the drive making an audible beeping sound? Maxtor's (especially the larger drives) make an odd audible chirp (almost musical) that indicates a no-spin condition caused by a seized drive motor. It comes from the PCB. If it's not making that sound, most likely the PCB has failed in some regard.
As davidlem pointed out modern 3.5" Hitachi/IBM drives and most modern 2.5" notebook drives have plastic parking blocks where the heads rest. Stiction is not something that can be "fixed" by tapping on a drive.
Modern 3.5" drives *rarely* suffer from stiction. A typical drive that does not spin up either has a failed PCB (whether it be the spindle controller, fuse, etc..) or a seized drive motor bearing (FDB). The latter is becoming more and more typical and I can guarantee there's *nothing* that can be done outside of clean room data recovery services.
Suggestions from "techs" like you are why more and more drives become unrecoverable. Tapping on a drive will not bring your typical 40GB+ drive back to life, you'll only cause tiny pits in the platters that will eventually evolve into a catastrophic head crash.
To botboy -> Do not open your drive. Is the drive making an audible beeping sound? Maxtor's (especially the larger drives) make an odd audible chirp (almost musical) that indicates a no-spin condition caused by a seized drive motor. It comes from the PCB. If it's not making that sound, most likely the PCB has failed in some regard.
BillR
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http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=946197
Interesting how the same basic method I employ (have employed since 1985 when I got the instructions directly from Seagate) seemed to work for this gentleman. As opposed to tapping he "shook" the drive, but the results were the same.
Don't confuse gentle tapping with whacking. Its a matter of how too.
Also notice the recurring theme of Maxtor, a company I gave up spending money with many years ago.
Interesting how the same basic method I employ (have employed since 1985 when I got the instructions directly from Seagate) seemed to work for this gentleman. As opposed to tapping he "shook" the drive, but the results were the same.
Don't confuse gentle tapping with whacking. Its a matter of how too.
Also notice the recurring theme of Maxtor, a company I gave up spending money with many years ago.
That post says nothing about tapping, the drive was stuck in the freezer to give it a bit of extended life.
If your data is 100% critical I wouldn't recommend doing it (if you can afford true recovery services), but it is something I will acknowledge I've seen work for a short term solution. (the freezer trick that is)
Hard drives have changed quite a bit since 1985, and trust me when I say I've worked on more hard drives internally than you'll see in a lifetime... tapping a hard drive will do more harm than good, moreso on modern hard drive with massive aerial density. One tiny pit can render the drive useless and unrecoverable.
If your data is 100% critical I wouldn't recommend doing it (if you can afford true recovery services), but it is something I will acknowledge I've seen work for a short term solution. (the freezer trick that is)
Hard drives have changed quite a bit since 1985, and trust me when I say I've worked on more hard drives internally than you'll see in a lifetime... tapping a hard drive will do more harm than good, moreso on modern hard drive with massive aerial density. One tiny pit can render the drive useless and unrecoverable.
jt99 said:
No audible sounds whatsoever, no beep or chirp. As I said, when plugged in a chip on the PCB gets very hot (over 100 deg in a matter of seconds) which leads me to believe pcb problem. I removed the PCB, plugged in power, same thing happened.
Anybody got a diamondmax drive (preferrably dead from shock or corruption, with a good pcb) that they'd be willing to send me if I pay shipping + a couple bucks? I've got a WTB ad in the FS/FT forum but no takers yet...