Surface Pro 3 (5/20/14)

Kueller said:
Well, most of the Bay Trail Atom devices so far have been limited to 2GB RAM. So a SP 1/2/3 crushes them in multitasking, and anything more processor intensive than web browsing.
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That's not an architectural limitation, though. Bay Trail itself supports up to 8GB.
 
Better to buy now and take advantage of the 10% off and you can always return if you don't like. Just missed the stacking $100 off so could've gotten the $1299 i5/8GB/256GB for $1069 instead of $1169.

As far as mobile CPU options it looks like Microsoft is focusing on 4th gen 15W TDP so here are the potential options for i3, i5 and i7.

i3

i5

i7
 
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Anyone else slightly disappointed MS didn't include a thunderbolt port? The ability to hook up thunderbolt devices could've really taken the SP3 to the next level as far as being the One Machine to rule them all. Dreaming of an external GTX780...
 
Kueller said:
Anyone else slightly disappointed MS didn't include a thunderbolt port? The ability to hook up thunderbolt devices could've really taken the SP3 to the next level as far as being the One Machine to rule them all. Dreaming of an external GTX780...
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A little... I wonder how it would have affected size/cooling/cost though.
 
mi7chy said:
Better to buy now and take advantage of the 10% off and you can always return if you don't like. Just missed the stacking $100 off so could've gotten the $1299 i5/8GB/256GB for $1069 instead of $1169.

As far as mobile CPU options it looks like Microsoft is focusing on 4th gen 15W TDP so here are the potential options for i3, i5 and i7.
i3
i5
i7
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Yeah, I also missed out on stacking the graduation code by about 10 minutes the night they put up the pre-orders. I had the i5 128GB in my cart ready to check out, just a hair too slow.

Wish the $1299 i5 version would step you up to a i5-4350U with the HD 5000 graphics. That would've been a nice bonus over the $999 i5 4300U version. The 4350U is only $34 more expensive from intel.
 
A power hungry Thunderbolt interface wouldn't make sense in a low power consumption ultra portable.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1607437

An intresting one today, I was watching my Watts and mA being consumed from my battery.

As an experiment I plugged in the thunderbolt to ethernet adapter.

My mA increased from about 500-600 to 1130mA. Knocking my Battery lifetime in half.

I switched to Wifi and I ended up back at the 600mA mark and 8-9 Hours of life.
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mi7chy said:
A power hungry Thunderbolt interface wouldn't make sense in an low power consumption ultra portable.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1607437
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Kind of a misleading quote there...
The very next post down in that thread explains WHY the power usage was so great:
There's a microcontroller and other circuitry in the thunderbolt to ethernet adapter that requires bus power to operate. It's basically a full fledged PCIe ethernet card, just shrunken down and using thunderbolt as its interface.
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Nothing inherently power hungry about T-bolt, just the classic issue of powering external devices from a laptop/tablet on battery power. You'd see power use spike if you hooked up an external USB DVD drive, or any other bus-powered peripheral device, should they forgo USB port too?
 
mi7chy said:
A power hungry Thunderbolt interface wouldn't make sense in a low power consumption ultra portable.
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If you look the physical specs of the SP3, it weighs 1.76 lbs. and is 9.1mm thick. That's only twice the weight of my Dell Venue 8 Pro and only about 1mm thicker. To be able to put an i3/i5/i7 in that size of a package with a display that's much bigger and pushing nearly 4 times as many pixels as a V8P and get about the same battery life (at least on paper for now until we get some true battery life numbers) in only twice the weight and same thickness to me is remarkable. Sure it would be nice to stuff more into the package but this thing has to be hitting the limits of what's possible for a mass production device.
 
heatlesssun said:
If you look the physical specs of the SP3, it weighs 1.76 lbs. and is 9.1mm thick. That's only twice the weight of my Dell Venue 8 Pro and only about 1mm thicker. To be able to put an i3/i5/i7 in that size of a package with a display that's much bigger and pushing nearly 4 times as many pixels as a V8P and get about the same battery life (at least on paper for now until we get some true battery life numbers) in only twice the weight and same thickness to me is remarkable. Sure it would be nice to stuff more into the package but this thing has to be hitting the limits of what's possible for a mass production device.
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The CPUs are ULV. What's remarkable about that?
 
wonderfield said:
The larger display makes component layout easier, not more difficult.
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But I'm looking at it as a whole. The SP3 is about the same thickness and only about 4 ounces heavier than then iPad 2 with what should be very good battery life if the specs Microsoft provided pan out. I'm in the market for a new hybrid/convertible and was about to pull the trigger on the ThinkPad Yoga, but I think the SP3 will be the first Surface device I buy. The problem I had with the first two Pros was the kickstand. I've been waiting for the full range of motion because it now allows the device to be angled while writing. That's a very useful thing when in an environment with bright overhead lighting as glossy displays laying flat reflect a lot of that light and a simply angling the device a bit solves the problem and I find it a bit more comfortable to write on an slightly inclined angle anyway.
 
heatlesssun said:
Because it's same thickness as many of these 8" Bay Trail devices. Plus has anyone else built an x86 tablet this thin before?
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Well, Bay Trail is x86 so technically yes. But I don't think there's any other ULV based tablets under 0.5". The SP3's 0.36" thickness is quite an achievement. The Miix 2 11 would be the closest (supposedly 0.4"), if it existed as anything besides vaporware.
 
I put in a preorder with the 10% off on an i5-128. If it doesn't live up to the specs on paper, then it'll get returned and I'll stick with my ipad air.
 
heatlesssun said:
Because it's same thickness as many of these 8" Bay Trail devices. Plus has anyone else built an x86 tablet this thin before?
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So what? More like about time. Super thin devices is what Haswell was made for. It's ULV and only 2 cores. What's remarkable about that?
 
seanclayton said:
What can an ULV-equipped machine do that an Atom device can't? Both can't run intensive programs or play AAA games. Unless they start including Iris Pro, then the user can do more...
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Atom devices are hilariously slow compared to i series processors. The i5 can run just about anything that isn't a top end game or CAD just fine. Atom struggles to play video smoothly.
 
Bobalias_LeShay said:
Atom devices are hilariously slow compared to i series processors. The i5 can run just about anything that isn't a top end game or CAD just fine. Atom struggles to play video smoothly.
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Bay Trail is a significant improvement over previous Atoms. Still not in ULV Core i Series territory but powerful enough to run a lot of desktop apps well.
 
Not enough improvement to get me to upgrade from my SP2. I think I'll sit this model out and get back in the game for the SP4.
 
Bobalias_LeShay said:
Atom devices are hilariously slow compared to i series processors. The i5 can run just about anything that isn't a top end game or CAD just fine. Atom struggles to play video smoothly.
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Not since Bay Trail. Performance is close to a Sandy Bridge i3.
 
I've got an Avoton server board (with 8 cores), and unless Bay Trail is dramatically different, it's still pretty darn slow, though admittedly a vast improvement from the rock that old Atoms were. Benchmarks look like the i series is around 4x faster than the Atoms, though those always need to be taken with a grain of salt.

I agree the Atoms are totally usable, but you're rather limited on what you run, particularly from the graphics side of the house. Different tools for different needs, though both awesome processors, particularly the improvement that Intel has given the Atom line while keeping power consumption miniscule.
 
Avoton is essentially Bay Trail (Silvermont) sans IGP.

For general usage, I'll suggest that disk I/O performance is much more important than CPU performance, and tablets fit very nicely into most general usage models.
 
Hey, guess what? I got to try the Surface Pro 3 early (connections!).

How you like it depends on what you're looking for, really. If you're an existing Surface user... well, it's the bee's knees. Great screen, noticeably thinner and lighter than the Pro 2. The Type Cover's trackpad is much nicer, too, between the added surface area and just the overall feel. Didn't get much of a chance to use the pen, but the truth is that I'm not the best tester for it; I don't do hand-drawn notes or art.

It's a bit of a different story for other platforms. This is overkill if you just want a tablet for reading, Netflix viewing or some basic Office use. It's still relatively big and heavy... and of course, $300 more than a 10-inch iPad or Galaxy Tab Pro ($430 when you factor in the keyboard). Also, the keyboard still isn't perfect; it's fine when you lay it flat on a desk, but that new option to "lock" the keyboard at an angle still means there's a bit of wiggle whenever you type something.

However, I think the Pro 3 does achieve what Microsoft has been promoting: if you absolutely want to consolidate on one device instead of two, this will do the job very nicely. I kinda wish I had an excuse to go that route! The tricky bit is that many of us have either made our choice or don't mind having two separate devices. If you want a bigger screen on your laptop or a smaller screen on your tablet, you'll still have to go elsewhere.
 
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Been waiting to hear Gabe over at Penny Arcade's take on it. Sounds like a mixed bag with the i5 for his workflow. They are shipping him an i7 to mess with soon. Really looking forward to his feedback on that model.
 
Pretty disappointing that i5 can't even handle Photoshop. I wonder if the bottleneck is CPU or iGPU and if going with the HD 5000 variant of i5 will help. Will be keeping an eye on this to see if I should just cancel my pre-order.
 
mi7chy said:
Pretty disappointing that i5 can't even handle Photoshop. I wonder if the bottleneck is CPU or iGPU and if going with the HD 5000 variant of i5 will help. Will be keeping an eye on this to see if I should just cancel my pre-order.
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Sounds like heavy throttling based on him mentioning that "High Performance" was not an available power plan any longer.

Edit: Nice to hear that the i7's are sporting the HD5000.
 
That would be a deal breaker for me. 90% of the time my SP2 sits on my desk plugged in and connected to two external monitors. I run photoshop all day long along with solidworks and host of other heavyweight programs. I'm guessing this little hiccup is fixed before launch.
 
From a bit of browsing various review sites it does seem the i7-4650U is quite a bit quicker at CPU tasks than the i5-4300U than the 1MB more L3 cache and 400MHz higher turbo speed might otherwise indicate, esp considering the i7's lower base speed.
 
I need to have some hands on time with it. I am excited to see the rumored Macbook Air 12 inch retina display model.
 
Well, the big reviews at Engadget and The Verge are up.

The consensus is fairly similar: they both like the Surface Pro 3 overall, but they believe that it's still making a pitch to a fairly specific audience. You have to really like the concept of having one device that replaces both your tablet and laptop (or a pen-driven device) for this to make sense. If you already have two devices, or you want something that's the best in either laptop or tablet tasks, you should probably look elsewhere.

That jives with my experience... it's really cool to have a laptop-like machine that you can use like a tablet, but it's clear that Microsoft had to make some compromises for that to happen. I know I wouldn't want to hold the Pro 3 for very long while standing, for example... it's hefty.
 
I think that many people are locked into thinking of tablets as 7-10" devices you hold cantilevered with one hand. If that's the benchmark, then this device is definitely going to be a pain to use. But, if you think of a tablet in the classical sense, i.e. an office worker with a folio containing a legal pad, then the 12" screen starts to make a bit more sense. You rest the tablet (whether paper or electronic) against your non-dominant forearm (and maybe chest as well) and write on it there. It's a legal pad, not a reporters note pad, and the bigger/more detailed work versus quick jotting down analogy seems apt.

As for the HD 5000 vs 4400, sadly it seems that, despite having twice the execution units, it's not actually that much faster :(
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7072/intel-hd-5000-vs-hd-4000-vs-hd-4400
 
Sad, that Anandtech article is almost a year old and it's talking about how the process shrink to 14nm is what's really needed to get significantly more GPU performance in thermally limited situations...here we are a year later and we still won't be seeing a Broadwell powered Surface Pro until 2015 (it'll be sweet when it comes out though).
 
Kueller said:
Sad, that Anandtech article is almost a year old and it's talking about how the process shrink to 14nm is what's really needed to get significantly more GPU performance in thermally limited situations...here we are a year later and we still won't be seeing a Broadwell powered Surface Pro until 2015 (it'll be sweet when it comes out though).
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Where do you see the review is a year old? It's dated May 20th which is days ago.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8037/microsoft-surface-pro-3-hands-on-display-performance-preview

My bad. I see what you were referring to.
 
Kind of sad that the user experience with Intel i5 in 2014 at 22nm is not any different than my Thinkpad Core2Duo L7600 from ~2008. Both 2-core, lackluster performance, hot and still lousy iGPU. Maybe I should hold off another year for 14nm.

If it wasn't for the software advantage Intel would be dead considering Snapdragon 800's much better user experience within ~3W TDP budget compared to 15W.
 
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