super noob question on different i7 model numbers...overclocking?

S

surfbug

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
283
hi

I am thinking of getting an xps 730 from dell

the i7 processor comes in 920-940-965 models


canI just get a 920 and over clock it, cuz the 8mb L3 cache is the same on all models?


and, what is the D0 designation on the 920, and why is that desirable?


why pay dell more money for a higher clock speed if I can over clock the processor my self?

and, the liquid cooling from dell (Dell CPU Liquid/TEC Cooling ATX Unit) only comes on the higher 940 or 965 models....

would it be cheaper/better to put liquid cooling on the 920 after the purchase, and avoid the dell cooling unit altogether?

thanks, and sorry for the basic questions...but I gotta start somewhere!

thanks in advance for the help, this is my first "gaming system", and the last time I bought a new computer was long ago, in a land far away!


al
 
the D0 is slightly better for overclocking. probably not even noticeable to someone who isnt an experienced overclocker, but nice to have. dont get their pre-water cooled. never head of it but im sure its not as good as something you could put together yourself for less. it is not worth the money to get a 940 or 965. get a 920 and overclock it. you can OC the hell out of those things even on air if you want. ive heard of the 920 going to 4.8GHz on air i believe on a dfi board.

in summary: get a 920. dont spend more for a D0. water cool if you want, but not necessary. get a nice hsf for 60-70 bucks and a good mobo and OC to 4.5GHz and call it good. because it will be good. :)
 
Thanks for the quick reply.


What is a dfi board?
A type/ manufacture of motherboard?

What is an hsf? Heat sink fins?


al
 
ooh we got an ultra noob here... :p

very close: hsf=heat sink fan, so a combination of a (usually heat pipes and fins) structure and a fan mounted on it. they range from $35 or so for a good one (Xigmatek S1283, Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer), to $60 for a great one (TRUE Black, Coolermaster V8). these will always outperform water in a performance/cost battle since theyre so cheap and get such a good overclock. going to watercool can get you a bit more, but definitely not $300/$60=5 times the overclock you can achieve on air. does that make sense? anyway im just trying to say that water is expensive and a hassle, but is also fun and lets you push your computer that extra little bit.

the dfi board i was talking about is a brand of motherboard. stands for diamond flower inc of all things. anyway they make great enthusiast boards that are good overclockers, but they can be downright shitty in terms of DOA products and costumer support. if youre feeling a little adventurous i suggest you build your computer yourself. itll save you a bunch of money and its pretty fun. and its easy to get help from guys here on the forums if you run into a problem.

EDIT: hm... from what i can tell the xps 730 doesnt come with an i7. i get that its a core 2 quad. are you looking at something else? it looks like its around $1500. you can build one HELL of a computer for that price.
 
HSF ===== Heatsink / FAN << basically means which heatsink and fan combo you are using?

DFI= is a motherboard vendor...suggest you avoid them if this is your first build....
Get a gigabyte or ASUS motherboard.

Also, just so that we don't set unrealistic expections for overclocking...for aircooling expect a core i7 to O/C to about 3.6 - 3.8GHz GHz for the C1/C0 stepping and about 4 GHz for a D0 stepping.......Alot of the 4.5GHz sceen shots you see out there are for benchmarking purposes only or require exotic cooling...
 
Yah,

I don't know what heatsink/fan I am going with yet--- I will search on the forum here--maybe do water cooling just cuz its cool

I have to watch out, I work on my own cars, and work doing my home improvement stuff---if I build my own computer, I won't have any time!

The funny thing is how DELL charges more for the overclocked stuff, $435 for the 940 and $1035 for the 965x when you can do it urslef!

Thanks, this board already saved me cash---


So, I want to over clock to 3.0 to 3.5 ghz , nothing crazy--

I don't have crazy expectations.



Oh, I mean 730X--they have the i7 stuff

I am just doing business stuff, internet surfing (getting 610N router linksys) and maybe buy a game or two. (Have none now, I lnow a mortal sin round here)

But remember, that makes me an ULTRA-noob!


Ha!


So, 3gb and 7200 rpm and 9800GT should be good enough for me.

To start out--

Thanks!

Al
 
problem with pre-builts by just bout all manufactures is they put their own bios which strip away your OC'ing potential. But if you don't have any time then...

I say piece it out yourself, once you get in to it... you'll make the time. :p
 
yah more than likely you will not get any sort of oc from a dell prebuilt...I think they ship like the bare minimum powersupply on those things,.
 
Uh-oh

So, I can't get into the DELL bios?

Hmmmm makes sense, everyone would buy the cheapest dells and clock them!--or can I get in? Has anyone on the forum OC'd a DELL?

So, can I change the mobo or the chip, to get a bios that is non-proprietary? Do I have to change both, or can I change just one as long as the other is compatible?

Where is the bios? In the CPU or the mobo?

At least I will have a good chasis and have the future proof/upgrade ability---

Oh, and I am buying dell ( instead of building myself ) cuz the financing is easy.


Thanks--

Al
 
Correct me if I am wrong as its been years since I've dealt with Dell machines, I am fairly sure they will have that BIOS locked down and you wont be able to OC it.

If you want to finance newegg offers some options if you are willing to build the PC yourself.
 
So. I can check new egg financing , thanks---

I might just get a refurb dell just to get it done, then change the mobo or chip in the future if need be.

I don't "need" to overclock, but it would be cool to do it!

So, what gets me around the bios? The cpu, or the mobo, or both?
 
It will cost you too much money to swap out a bios chip, its stored on the motherboard, rather than just going to newegg and buying all the parts and doing it yourself. You can build a very respectible i7 setup for under a grand.

Here would be a modest recommendation for parts:
Asus P6T Mobo = $250
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131359
Intel i7 920 = $280
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202
Antec 300 case = $60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
Corsair 650w Power supply = $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
G.Skill 6gb ram = $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231247
XFX 9800 GT Graphics card = $120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150316
Noctua CPU cooler = $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608007

That is about a grand right there but there is like 40-100 in rebates also you could save another 100 dollars if you take advantage correctly of newegg's combo deals. Oh and all of those are free shipping too, thought that might help a bit as well if your wallet is tight.


I hope that helps maybe, if not maybe someone else in your boat. Cheers and GL!


PS: I know that isnt the perfect setup for everyone else but it is a good base for this guy to start from to get his system up and going asap with lil troubles. No flamage please:)
 
hey thanks!

what about the software? the windows XP?

or do I want linux if I am going "total gamer hardcore supertweak"?


*opens pandoras box* can I run firefox, an xl program and a word processor on linux?

or can I get vista 64 OS at a good price?

al
 
dont use linux. if you dont have time to build a computer, you definitely dont have time to figure out that mess. (troll alert! i hear its really not that bad) the setup mentioned above is great. it is a ton cheaper than a dell, so you may not even need financing! and it will do you a huge solid. youll be incredibly happy with it, and can overclock a ton. one thing id suggest is looking for parts in the for sale thread if youre feeling adventurous. you wont get warranties, but you can find some very reputable sellers selling stuff for 1/2-3/4 retail price. dont water cool for now if funds are short. maybe add it a bit later. that setup will run any game out right now just fine.
 
Ok, no linux. I knew that but had to ask.

The power supply on the dell is 1 kilowatt.

There is a special with the following till tomorrow night. Thursday, 5-14-09

XPS 730X alum (no color) case
i7 920
6gb
640 gb
Ati 4070 x2 2048 gpu
19 in 1 card read (bluetooth?)

All for $1999, 39 dollars shipping


That might be for me--considering the time limitations, might go turnkey--


Hey! I might flip a coin! But that looks like a good deal, even tho I don't need that much GPU

They have the same xps 730X, except 500 gb, 285x card, and no 19-1 reader, but a OKAY gaming network card---for $1799

Al
 
$250-Asus P6T
$280-i7 920
$95-6GB G. Skill DDR3 1600
$390-4870x2 2GB
$145-Corsair 850W PSU
$90-1TB WD HDD
$100-Case
$100-optical/card reader/whatever

im at 1450 right now, and thats with being very generous, and before rebates and combos. can you link me to this build they have so i can better prove that its not worth the money? they use a nice video card (theres no such thing as a 4070x2 so i assumed 4870x2), and i alloted more than needed for a case. but as you can see, youll be saving 500 dollars by building yourself at that level. thats a lot. and if youre willing to go with a pretty nice build instead of an overkill build, you can do just fine for 1200. really. you wont ever find a "good" deal on a prebuilt. only a slightly-not-as-much-of-a-ripoff deal.
 
yes 4870x2 basically means there are 2 4870s on one card. its a great card, albeit quite costly. sounds like youre pretty set on this computer. its a fantastic machine, very capable. make sure you have a keyboard, mouse, monitor, and operating system ready for this monster or youll end up waiting a couple days after you get it before you can use it. :eek: personally i dont think its worth the money, but then people spend the same amount on imacs that are about 1/4 as capable as this thing huh? i guess all i can say at this point is enjoy, and make sure you buy some great games that will make good use of such a machine. oh, and dont let your wife know how much it cost. :p
 
I seriously dont think this guy will need a 4870x2 video card to be honest. No offense surfbug but since you dont have a single game and are just starting out i would go with something in the 100-150 range. I mean... going with a GTX260 would be overkill i think for you but it would last you a very long time.

Also if your seriously thinking of a turnkey system, why not save 800 dollars and send the parts to me and ill build it for you, test it and ship it out to you... for a small fee of course:D

Honestly thought putting all of this stuff together is as easy as putting together legos man. It will take you 30min - 1hr to do it, more time if your are anal about hiding wires but to me dont htink you would care that much.
 
Hey, thanks for not flaming me as a lazy noob that doesn't want to go put stuff together!

And, BTW, the wife--fiance- has an imac!

Too funny

So, still doing final deciding --
Getting close

Might go with 285x 1024 card to save 200 dollars

Uhmmm networking stuff and internal gaming N cards -- information on that in the network section?

So, do I continue the NOOB-storm here, or move the network dumb dumb questions to the network section?

Thanks, al
 
TBH "A gaming NIC" is mainly a way to charge more money to an unknowing consumer. It is honestly a waste of money, there are arguments for dual nics for gaming, which most full size atx x58 boards have so you dont have to worry about that, but seriously i doubt you will ever need it with the way you are describing your knowledge level and experience.
 
yeah thanks. forgot to include that. for some reason i feel like im missing something else too. cant find what though. anyway its still way better and way cheaper than any prebuilt, which is really the point i was trying to make.
 
Opps i guess i forgot about adding the HD and DVD drives in my list... i take them for granted i guess
 
so I got the DELL XPS 730x

it just got here! yay! the UPS guy just dropped it off, I am unpacking it now


pics soon


i7 -- 920 --- 2.66Ghz
two 500gb hard drives
blu ray optical
dvd optical 2nd drive
sound blaster card
3GB mem
ATI 512mb 4850


it was $1103 from the dell refurb outlet
shipped to my door for $1196


I dont do much computer wise, as you guys can tell ---(the last time I bout a system was 10 years ago--- the vid card was 48 mb max!)

so, this is my start, and I can "hot rod" it as I need to....

thanks for all the help, and I will post another thread showing the system...


big al
 
Right now I've got a Core i7 920 C0 at 4.2GHz on air cooling. I've never seen a Core i7 920 that wasn't good for at least 3.8GHz that I can recall.
 
Ya---

Trying to set it all up-- then I will over clock, and get a new HSF (heat sink fan).

Haha! Go the terminology down!

Woot! Hard core gamer in training--

Yes, so gonna set up all the software.

Oh, is there a big dif with 32 bit home edition vista and 64 bit?

Dif with home vs ultimate vista?

And, is there a link on the board here to definitons/glossary?



Oh, and I am going to gamestop to buy a game! Yay! (I will never go to work now)
Thanks!

Al
 
first of all, 64 bit for sure. otherwise you can only use 3GB of memory. its cheap so you may want to upgrade to 6GB in the future. i know youre not very adventurous, but id say get the new windows 7 release client, and then buy the full version when it goes on sale in half a year. vista isnt worth investing in now since theres a perfectly legal and stable windows 7 out. it is a little more work to get it running i guess though since youll have to make a boot disc etc.

as for games, you should download steam from steampowered.com and find some games there. they tell a little about each one and rate them. there are some really enjoyable multiplayers, and quite a few newer single player games. if you get team fortress 2 or left 4 dead, (both are great games) you can add me (steam ID: ekuest) and id love to play with you a bit. :)
 
32-bit supports a total of 4GB of system RAM (including video memory, etc). 64-bit supports much more. Since you're only using 3GB, 32-bit Vista will be enough for now. If you plan on using 4GB+, I strongly suggest a 64-bit version.
 
Here's the big picture. The ram allocated in a 32bit system is done AFTER your video memory is calculated. Lets say you have a nice GTX 285 with 2GB memory.

Guess what... with a 32 bit OS your computer will see less than 2GB of RAM.

What if you run two of these cards in SLI. Your system will see NO memory. There is no excuse not to use a 64bit OS. Especially if you have a gaming computer.
 
noteworthy said:
Guess what... with a 32 bit OS your computer will see less than 2GB of RAM.

What if you run two of these cards in SLI. Your system will see NO memory.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but this is completely false. How much RAM the operating system sees has to do with the motherboard chipset, BIOS and whether or not it supports memory remapping or not. Your video memory is actually not part of the calculation at all. In fact, it is the video card that reserves the RAM for DMA transfers/communication. That relationship isn't a 1 to 1 relationship either. I have seen systems with 4GB of RAM and Windows XP 32bit show as much as 3.98GB of memory (server hardware only) and as little as 2.25GB of RAM. The system with 2.25GB of RAM available had two 512MB video cards in SLI, a SCSI controller with 128MB of RAM onboard, and other devices each reserving memory for DMA. As I said the relationship isn't quite 1 to 1. Two 512MB cards of different types may not reserve the same amount of memory. Two different chipsets (NVIDIA vs. Intel) may not reserve the exact same amount of memory, and each motherboard will reserve the memory needed for various onboard devices differently based on what's integrated.
 
Last edited:
anyone with me on going for windows 7? is there any reason to invest in vista at this point? maybe there will be a decently priced upgrade option from vista when 7 is released?

plus you cant ignore the fact that you have an i7 and this is windows 7. cant be a coincidence. it was simply meant to be. :p
 
I have Windows 7 and love it. My games do not! Quite a few punkbuster errors with this OS. You might see them as 'Unknown API Fuction'. A common kick message for windows 7 users.
 
KleeziE said:
I seriously dont think this guy will need a 4870x2 video card to be honest. No offense surfbug but since you dont have a single game and are just starting out i would go with something in the 100-150 range. I mean... going with a GTX260 would be overkill i think for you but it would last you a very long time.

Also if your seriously thinking of a turnkey system, why not save 800 dollars and send the parts to me and ill build it for you, test it and ship it out to you... for a small fee of course:D

Honestly thought putting all of this stuff together is as easy as putting together legos man. It will take you 30min - 1hr to do it, more time if your are anal about hiding wires but to me dont htink you would care that much.
Click to expand...
He should get a GTS 250 or HD 4850, excellent bang-for-your-buck cards with low power requirements.
 
I have an ATI 4850 now...I dont know if it is HD

oh, how do I check out all the stuff in my system, and list it on here?

how do I know what manufactures and what exact model numbers of stuff I have?

still learning over here.....
 
yeah punkbuster isnt great, but to my knowledge no steam games use it right? all i play are whats on steam cuz im too lazy to go to the store, and basically the last 10 games i bought were steam weekend deals. what deals they are!

idk what to use surfbug, but someone on here definitely will. there are programs like cpuid and gpuid which are good for cpu and gpu. durrrrrrr... i think the best and only way to check stuff out is to go start menu>control panel>system and find some info in there. the "hardware" tab lists all the components in/on/connected to your computer. it doesnt give a lot of details though. "display adapters" will tell you what video card you have (sounds like an HD 4850) for example, and thats also a good place to update your drivers for it and most other stuff. ok have fun im going to bed since its 3:30 AM.
 
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