Suddenly Can't Boot

P

PWMK2

2[H]4U
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Dec 4, 2005
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Rig in sig.

Well... I don't know what to do. I've been running my new 7-month-old comp. nearly every day now and everythng has been great, including the hard drive. Well, then I go to boot it up today...

It loads the BIOS logo and everything, then hangs for a really long time. After that, it promptly tells me to insert a boot media. I say WTF and reboot... same thing. So I go into the BIOS and now my samsung spinpoint isn't even listed in the IDE configuration list... it still shows my DVD burner, just not my HDD.

This is really aggravating. I have lots of important data on there. The ironic thing is that I just finished copying a bunch of data off of my old computer and was actually about to back everything up onto DVD when this occurs. I haven't heard anything odd coming from the hard drive since I've got it (actually, haven't heard ANYTHING coming from the hard drive -- it's really quiet). Oh, and BTW, It's running in ATA100. Please help! :(
 
Change the jumper selection from Master to Cable Select. Also, try plugging your hard disk into the second IDE controller instead of the 1st. Try to isolate the issue as much as possible. Also, when you first power on the machine, do you hear the hard disk spin up?

-E
 
Figured out the problem. There was a power outage in my town last night and it apparently wiped my BIOS settings... :( God, I'm stupid... went in and manually detected the HDD, everything's fixed now. :)
 
Well, maybe that wasn't it. Because now I have to go in and manually detect the HDD EVERY SINGLE TIME I BOOT UP. Anyone have something familiar happen to them?
 
If there was a power outage that actually wiped your bios then it may have also damaged either the motherboard and/or drive. Do you have an old drive you could swap? Either that or throw the current drive in another system or an external enclosure and see if it is detected. Good luck...it can be a pain to narrow things down.
 
your BIOS (EEPROM) is powered by a battery when the PSU is off

ergo if the settings dont take its a dead battery
at least thats your first suspect
improper seating, board\EEPROM fault ect following
 
No, I don't have an old drive I could swap for... but it doesn't seem to be damaged in any way... I've been using it for 2 days now since this started happening and nothing bad has happened thus far.

Yeah, I know it can't be a battery issue any more because when I went into the BIOS all of the other settings (custom memory timings, AGP aperture, etc.) were still there. :confused:
 
BIOS > (typically PCI submenu) force update ESCD

extended system configuration data (if available, BIOS differ)

alternately disconnectect all drives and USB devices (except keyboard or use PS2), reboot
reconnect reboot

Adrian said:
Force Update ESCD

Common Options : Enabled, Disabled

Quick Review

If you install a new piece of hardware or modify your computer's hardware configuration, the BIOS will automatically detect the changes and reconfigure the ESCD (Extended System Configuration Data). Therefore, there is usually no need to manually force the BIOS to reconfigure the ESCD.

However, the occasion may arise where the BIOS may not be able to detect the hardware changes. A serious resource conflict may occur and the operating system may not even boot as a result. This is where the Force Update ESCD BIOS feature comes in.

This BIOS feature allows you to manually force the BIOS to clear the previously saved ESCD data and reconfigure the settings. All you need to do is enable this BIOS feature and then reboot your computer. The new ESCD should resolve the conflict and allow the operating system to load normally.

Please note that the BIOS will automatically reset it to the default setting of Disabled after reconfiguring the new ESCD. So, there is no need for you to manually disable this feature after rebooting.
Click to expand...

as mentioned change jumper settings and physical config does basically the same thing, however dropping it down to no devices at all clears it completely and forces it to rerecognize each device anew

also swapping out the cable for a known good one will not hurt
same for a power lead

if you really have had a power event, the drive is far more susecptible than the mobo generally, not having its own voltage regulation modual (VRM) and thus backing up the data with your first sucessful access is pretty important if the circuit board is questionable

probability order: (IMO)
BIOS is confused \ physical config
signal issue (cable) power issue (PSU)
HDD circuit board is damaged
mobo IDE channel is damaged
(easy to eliminate by switching channels, a known good drive on the trouble channel)

after a sucessful backup find and run the HDD manufacturers diagnostic
they are free to download off their site 9 times out of 10 (the tenth being there is none)
 
I tried the above methods as well as some others and I'm still getting the same problem.

Here's a summary of my problem:
- My PATA HDD running on a ATA100 channel isn't detected upon bootup any more. It is a Samsung Spinpoint SP2014N. (200GB)
- The mobo sticks at "Checking NVRAM" for a really long time, then procedes to a message which asks me to insert boot media.
- In order to boot, I either have to do one of the following:
> Go into the BIOS and select the IDE channel. Suddenly, it says that it has detected a new HDD and I should reboot.
> Reboot using the reset button on the computer (pressing on then off won't work) after receiving the "insert boot media" message.

Things to note:
- Everything works perfectly once I boot into Windows. In fact, I'm posting this on the computer in question right now. Speed is the same as it always has been, and everything works exactly the same as it did before this problem happened.
- This is occuring on the computer in my sig.
- I can't say if the HDD spins up at boot or not because of how quiet Samsung drives are... putting my ear right up next to the drive, I can't hear anything even when it's doing massive disk reading (like when it's reading a movie off the hard drive), so I can't say if it spins up at boot or not.
- My case lacks an HDD activity LED, so that's also a no-go.

What I have done to try to remedy this problem:
- My motherboard's BIOS doesn't have a "force update ECSD" option, so I couldn't try what Ice Czar had suggested.
- In case it was my RAM, I ran both MemTest and the Windows Memory Diagnostic. My memory passed three passes successfully in both problems. I disabled Memory Acceleration mode as well but to no avail. Then I increased the latency from 2-3-3-6 to 3-3-3-8. It didn't make any difference.
- Thinking it was a possible issue with the power connector, I switched connectors. However, that didn't change anything.
- I took the cable out of the main PATA slot and put it into the RAID PATA slot on my mobo. The onboard promise controller had similar problems in that it had trouble detecting the hard drive on first bootup, but was then able to successfully detect it when I rebooted the computer.
- I turned on the speech POST option in the BIOS in case it might tell me something more than what was appearing on my screen during POST. However, all it said was "No IDE hard drive detected!" right before giving me the "insert boot media" message.
- I ran HUTIL (Samsung's HDD Diagonstic Program). I got no errors except for an "ecc error" when it performed an "M.C. check." Could anyone tell me what this means?
- I ran scandisk and it corrected one bad sector.
- I defragged the hard drive, which happened to be massively fragmented. However, defragging didn't solve the problem.

What I haven't done yet:
- Replaced the IDE ribbon cable (plan on doing that tonight when I get my hands on a spare)
- Plugged in a known good HDD (don't have any I could take)
- Replaced the power supply (REALLY don't want to do this)
- Replaced the mobo (ditto)
 
Think its time to clear the BIOS, check the CMOS battery (or replace it) and ensure its properly seated
that check NVRAM nessage......
Non-Volatile Random Access Memory in other words the EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory) your BIOS chip
Its having problems reading or executing the BIOS but double checking the battery and setting it back to fail safe defaults is a good idea
Non-volatile random-access memory. RAM is integrated-circuit (IC) memory whose contents can both be read and over-written as required; it forms the 'main memory' of most microcomputer systems. Normally, RAM is 'volatile': that is, it loses its contents when the power to the computer is switched off (hence the need to save your work to disk). NVRam is able to retain its contents thanks to a battery that automatically takes over when power is lost.

ROM and EEPROM are both examples of Non-Volatile RAM, memory that holds its data without power. DRAM, in contrast, is volatile.
Click to expand...

and its likely becuase its trying multiple times to read that drive but cant

regarding ECC as applied to a HDD
Error Correction Code
Read Error Severities and Error Management Logic
Error Notification and Defect Mapping
Error Rates


what Samsung means by M.C. check Im searching for
changing out the cable is certainly worth doing, but given the power event
HDDs are some of the most suceptible devices, lacking any additional buffer or voltage regulation (unlike a mobo)

after going through the BIOS and cable swap
Id try to replicate the HDD error and if you can do that
RMA it


one of the main reasons you see geeks with multiple computers
is the advantage that gives us in crossparting
lacking multiple computers, you need friends for that
or worse pay a shop, crossparting HDDs, cables and PSUs
can definatively isolate this issue pretty quickly
 
Alright then, I'll try taking out the battery tonight when I replace the HDD cable. I do have more than one computer, but not one in which I can readily take a hard drive out of (1 laptop HDD, 2 OEM comps. with soldered in HDDs). I do have a friend though that can help because they have a plethora of old hard drives but he isn't sure which ones of them have errors already, so I think I'll try that as a last resort. If this doesn't work, it probably will be RMA time unfortunately... :(
 
OK, no luck. Replaced the battery, replaced the cable, squat. Except now S.M.A.R.T. reports my drive is going to commit seppuku. Great...

So it sounds like it's going to be RMA time. Anyone RMA'd a Samsung hard drive before? How long do you think it'll be before I get a new one?
 
actually Ive had very good "luck" with HDDs
but I treat them like they are full of nitro :eek:

most go tits up shortly after you get em from shipping damage
and provided you give them a nice home (lack of vibration, reduce thermal cycling, protect against power events, no bumping especially while spinning)
after that they'll generally keep up their end of the bargain and more

Ive never even owned an Samsung, dont know

likely they will want you to provide that error code
tyr to replicate it again, could be worse, could have been data loss ;)
 
I think to avoid future problem. YOu should invest a little money in a good power bar.
=)
I remember i bought a nice 20 dollar power bar connector and has like built in safe circuit cut when there is power outages so my computer doesn't get damaged.
 
No, I've got it plugged into a pretty beefy surge protector, but this was a monster power freakout extravaganza. There was a pretty killer lightning storm and a lightning bolt hit a power substation a block away from my house. I'm pretty sure I get power directly from that place. When the power came back on, all of the alarm clocks in my house read 88:88 instead of their usual flashing 12:00 after a normal power outage, and my air purifier wouldn't come on until I kicked it.

Oh, and the HDTV downstairs took a REALLY long time to turn on the next day (~15 minutes). Now that scared the crap out of me... but it finally did. ;)
Nobody else in the house has encountered computer problems though, looks like it's just me. Although I'm kind of glad about that. I really wouldn't want to have to replace the hard drive in my dad's computer as well... :eek:
 
Metal Oxide Varistors (MOV) wear out

Power Conditioning 101 Dan'sdata

The plain surge/spike filter powerboards you can buy at various electronics, electrical and hardware stores are, arguably, worse than nothing. This is because they give you the impression you’re protected, when you probably aren’t - well, not for long, anyway.

The chief surge-clamping component in a basic filter-board is a Metal-Oxide Varistor (MOV). MOVs pass current only when the voltage across them is above a set value, and they react very quickly (in a matter of microseconds, against the tens of milliseconds a circuit breaker takes). That’s the good news. The bad news is that MOVs wear out - they’re only good for a few uses, and the bigger the spike, the more damage is done.

Cheap power filters seldom give you any indication whether your MOV is alive or not. If the powerboard has an illuminated power switch, the switch light often goes off when the MOV has died. The switch lights generally last for decades, so no light almost definitely means no MOV - but since the light only shows the status of a fuse, and the fuse won’t blow if the MOV has been killed by lots of smaller surges, the light can keep glowing merrily when the MOV has long since kicked the bucket.

Anti-spike gear may also include gas arrestor tubes, which are far more durable than MOVs but too slow for computer applications, or silicon avalanche diodes, which give much of the robustness of gas tubes with the speed of a MOV. The best spike suppressors have all three components, but you won’t find those at the hardware store. Standard MOV-equipped powerboard suppressors sell for around $50 (Australian dollars).
Click to expand...

so depending on the stability of your VAC from the outlet how long one might last and if it will tell you its now just a power distribution bar with no real protection varies
the cheaper and older the unit the more you should suspect it
 
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