Strix raid dlx buzzing background noise

Discussion in 'Computer Audio' started by Koween, May 15, 2017.

  1. Koween

    Koween Limp Gawd

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    I have a strix raid dlx sound card. In hindsight, it looks like I should have went with an external solution, but I have it now so that's that.
    It seems to have a lot of background noise when the gpu is under a high load. I'm nearly sure, that when I had the same sound card in a asrock z77 gaming 6 motherboard there was no buzzing or anything like that (I remember I tested it when I bought it and was impressed at how there is no background noise).
    Now it's running in a msi x99 gaming 7, psu is evga 850w g2, gpu is 1080ti fe.
    Any ideas? Any fixes or should I try to sell it? The onboard sound works fine, but after spending quite a bit of money on the sound card I would like to use it. Also, it's much louder than the onboard sound.
     
  2. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Check the PSU. Often failing PSU manifests as noise problems.
     
  3. Koween

    Koween Limp Gawd

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    I have no issues with the psu, it's not making any noise by itself and I have no stability issues. It's also less than a year old.
    I'm thinking that maybe it's EMI from the gpu itself.
     
  4. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Even new PSU:s can fail. The noise filtering capacitors may be the culprit so if you have another PSU, try it out.
     
  5. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    you could try a ferrite choke.
     
  6. rezerekted

    rezerekted 2[H]4U

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    This worked for me when I had the same issue years ago, Ground loop isolator.

    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/140-3288143-7565468?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Ground+loop+isolator

    This is the one I used.

    https://www.amazon.com/RadioShack-S...94872902&sr=8-8&keywords=Ground+loop+isolator
     
  7. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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  8. rezerekted

    rezerekted 2[H]4U

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    Choke never worked for me so can't be the same thing.
     
  9. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    yeah youre right there is something else in em, caps and shit.
     
  10. Koween

    Koween Limp Gawd

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    I will try out a psu from another pc and a ground loop isolator. One more thing - when I had the sound card in the z77 system I also had my pc in a different room. That room has newer electrical installation and the electrical sockets hve a grounding pin. Now I'm using a room that has old wiring and no ground. Could that be the cause?
     
    pendragon1 likes this.
  11. SvenBent

    SvenBent [H]ard|Gawd

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    Is you computer grounded ?
     
  12. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    yup. so you could also find a way to ground the case/psu.
     
  13. Koween

    Koween Limp Gawd

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    Would a radiator work?
     
  14. Koween

    Koween Limp Gawd

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    Nope. That part of the house is using wiring from 1947 :)
     
  15. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    like a home heat rad right?! maybe, if its grounded.
     
  16. Koween

    Koween Limp Gawd

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    Yes, i have a furnace in the basement that has been converted to use electricity to heat the house. The pipes should be grounded, as far as I am aware. I will check on that, though. I'll try to google, maybe I can test for that somehow.
    I will also try to take the pc back to the other room just to check the results.
     
  17. SvenBent

    SvenBent [H]ard|Gawd

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    just use a wire to connect the chassis (prefferalbe at one of the screws that holds the psu. To the pipe and see if it help to begin with.
     
  18. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    You never EVER ground an electric device to anywhere but the grounding lead of the mains. That kind of advice can get someone killed! DO NOT DO IT.

    If you need to test the grounding, pull an extension cable from the newer part of the house. Under no circumstances connect any part of your electric devices to your plumbing or heating. That's insanity and may cause you to be liable to someones death. A family member may get electrocuted while taking a shower for example.
     
  19. HeavensCloud

    HeavensCloud Oswego, not shitty as Buffalo

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    What could happen that would kill someone? You aren't connecting direct power to it and the polarity isn't switching anywhere that it should transfer power through the ground. Would it happen if there was an event and it did try to ground or something?
     
  20. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    If you ground an electric device to any plumbing, the current can flow unpredictably anywhere where that plumbing is connected. If a human accidentally becomes a conduit to this current by connecting two different potential level sources with his/her body, that can lead to severe burns or a cardiac arrest. A cardiac arrest can happen with as low as 30 volt potential difference and with as low as 0,2 amps (IIRC) if the conditions are correct.

    So if you lead current to a heating pipe, there is a very real chance that a child touching that pipe gets electrocuted if he/she touches some other grounded object (or water) at the same time. Since the heating pipes are not designed to be grounding devices, there's no way to say where ever the current can flow. It can go to the shower head, kitchen sink, bathroom knob, garden hose, radiator surfaces... Neighbors house if you share metallic water pipes...

    The rule number one in electric assemblies is that you never ground a device to anywhere but mains ground. If you have any sort of an electric device that has even a theoretical possibility to contact water, you also need a potential difference safety fuse that cuts the current immediately if it detects a 1-5 milliamp difference between phase and ground. This is to avoid death from accidental grounding to water.

    Further more, if you cause a fire, damage to electronic circuits or devices, death or an injury by doing an illegal electric connection like this, you're fully liable for the damages.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  21. HeavensCloud

    HeavensCloud Oswego, not shitty as Buffalo

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    Right, but I didn't know that a wire from a screw on a case (acting as a ground) could in any way transfer power to the radiator or heat vent it was connected to. When grounded outlets were becoming popular/required people would buy those flaky ass 3-prong adapters and run a ground wire to their radiator or whatever.

    I was wondering what circumstances would lead to this happening where the power could get transferred through the case assuming the regular in wall wiring is proper. Something like a huge power surge or heavy water damage or ?
     
  22. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Grounding something means that the positive potential flows to the negative potential (ground). So by definition if you connect something to ground it, you create a flow of current.
    If the electrical device has a design flaw or a broken component, that can immediately pose a life hazard. A computer chassis can easily have a 110/220V potential at the chassis. I have witnessed it personally.

    As long as the device floats or is grounded correctly it poses no danger. But if you let that voltage loose to your shower head and it flows through you or someonelses heart - all bets are off.

    If the house electricity has been made in 1947 there's a very real risk of installations that do not adhere to current safety standards. The very fact that grounding is missing is a testament to that.
     
  23. HeavensCloud

    HeavensCloud Oswego, not shitty as Buffalo

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    So with standard grounded outlets - why in a breaker box do both the neutral and the ground get hooked into (potentially and acceptable by US code) the same bus bar without consequence and the box gets grounded to a water pipe, the same pipe that you are saying could electrocute you (shower)? Wouldn't the entire system still remain truly grounded, or are you saying the radiator or vent the case gets grounded to might not be grounded itself as it should be?
     
  24. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    The point is that you are not supposed to use your pipes for grounding any devices. There's literally no guarantee what the pipes are touching and where and which parts are connected by water to eachothers.

    It's perfectly safe to connect the ground of your mains anywhere you like as long as it's truly the ground. There's no current flowing from the ground. But when you ground a _device_ that's being fed electricity, current flows from the device to the ground and if someone accidentally gets in the path of that current it can be deadly.

    Under no circumstances you should use anything but the mains ground for grounding. Not even the 0-phase because there's a remote chance it's been reversed with the phase (again, especially with older houses). Devices will work normally as it's AC but surprise, surprise - you get voltage from the wrong lead.
     
  25. Koween

    Koween Limp Gawd

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    First of all - I'm in Norway. The electrical system here is a bit different. There is no neutral. In a normal house you'd have two live wires (230v phase to phase, 115v phase to ground) and a ground. My house is quite old, needs rewiring (which hopefully will happen next year) and all I have is the two phase socket.
    I (sort of) understand the risks involved - the whole point of a ground wire is to make sure that if the chassis of an appliance becomes live it will safely conduct it to ground.
    The way plumbing is in my house, if i grounded the pc chassis to the radiator pipe in case of a fault the current would have to travel down to the basement and then back up the cold and hot water pipes to shock a person. That would not be the path of least ressistance - such a path would be down from the basement and into the ground.
    While that does not make grounding a pc to a radiator completely safe, it still seems to be safe-ish. I will try to find another way to get a ground wire into the house - there seems to be a ground wire outside, for some reason (lightning rod?), that I may be able to use.
    My dog also likes to chew on some radiators, don't want to fry her as well :)
    Also, still need to test with a grounded socket to be sure if that is really the issue here.
     
  26. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Just pull the damn extension cord from the other room to test the ground. Or if you don't have long enough cord, carry the computer to the newer part of the house that's properly grounded. Otherwise I'm going to consider you a complete idiot from now on.

    Sorry for being blunt but that's how it is. You don't play with electricity.
     
  27. HeavensCloud

    HeavensCloud Oswego, not shitty as Buffalo

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    From the 2014 NFPA 70:

    "Ground-Fault Current Path. An electrically conductive path from the point of a ground fault on a wiring system through normally non-'current-carrying conductors, equipment, or the earth to the electrical supply source.
    Informational Note: Examples of ground-fault current paths are any combination of equipment grounding conductors, metallic raceways, metallic cable sheaths, electrical equipment, and any other electrically conductive matelial such as metal, water, and gas piping; steel framing members; stucco· mesh; metal ducting; reinforcing steel; shields of communications cables; and the earth itself"


    "(4) Grounding Electrode. The grounding electrode shall be as near as practicable to, and preferably in the same area as, the grounding electrode conductor connection to the system. The grounding electrode shall be the nearest of one of the fol1owing:
    (I) Metal water pipe grounding electrode as specified in 250.52(A)(1 )
    (2) Structural metal grounding electrode as specified in 250.52(A)(2) Exception No.1: Any of the other electrodes ident~fied in 250.52(A) shall be used ~f the electrodes spec~ed b)' 250.30(A)(4) are not available.
    Exception No. 2 to (I) and (2): If a separately derived system originates ill listed equipnlent suitable for use as service equipment, the grounding electrode used for the service or feeder equipment shall be permitted as the grounding electrode for the separately derived system."


    "250.52 Grounding Electrodes.
    (A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding.
    (1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10ft) or more (including any metal well casing bonded to the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints or insulating pipe) to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor and the bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s), if installed."


    "(D) Metal Underground Water Pipe. If used as a grounding electrode, metal underground water pipe shall meet the requirements of 250.53(D)( I) and (D)(2)."


    I'm just trying to figure out if my house is at risk for catastrophic failure due to the way it was wired who knows how long ago. I don't know if I'm reading this all wrong or what.
     
  28. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    One simple example: You live in a cold climate and all your water pipes are insulated with dielectric materials. Boom - you no longer have metal to earth contact and no reliable grounding.
     
  29. HeavensCloud

    HeavensCloud Oswego, not shitty as Buffalo

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    So it's good as long as you aren't in the Antarctica or Northern Canada?
     
  30. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Unless your building / electrical code approves using heating pipes as grounding (which is unheard to me) it's best not to do it. You can kill someone very easy just by sticking 1 wire to the wrong place at a wrong time.
     
  31. Koween

    Koween Limp Gawd

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    That's what I will do to test it - I'm not that stupid...
    As for grounded pipes - all pipes ar copper, they are grounded in the basement (there is a ground wire coming up from underneath the house and it's connected to the pipes and the fuse box).
    Pipes are not insulated - they are electrically heated near the house during winter time :)
    And, fiy, I have been playing with electricity (literally) since I was 4 or 5 years old - it's just lower voltage.
    That's why I'm trying to figure out how to do it properly or at least in a safe manner.
     
  32. Pandur

    Pandur Limp Gawd

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    If your computer is not grounded you will get the infamous 50hz hum from your soundcard, almost guaranteed. And yes your pipes are grounded but they're not meant to ground other items. If you wonder why, connect one phase to a pipe and take a shower. SERIOUSLY, DON'T DO THIS! I'm just making a point. But that is what might happen if you misuse water pipes to ground faulty electronics.