Strange crash with Aero enabled and window experience index

D

delemorte

Gawd
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
680
My Apologies if this has been posted b4 but was wondering if anyone can help with this issue.

Brand new build keeps locking up and freezing when ever Aero is enabled and internet exlplorer is in use, or when using the Eperience index it gets half way through and freezes again requiring a hard boot. As long as Aero is turned off i get no problems. I can play games such as DODS and L4D with out a hicup. I let the machine sit all day after first issue and had no problems with Aero turned off. Within 10 min of Aero being on the system will randomly freeze and crash, sometimes the monitor will go black sometimes it wont. i have read up on the GSOD and dont think this applies but not really sure. I have the lastest and greatest drivers and bios from all companies. Have also tried the not so latest and greatest with same result. Also have tried with ATI control panel installed and without. It has been a couple of frustrating days just trying to figure out something as silly as AERO and why it would cause such a fatal crash =(

I have researched the issue and it seems these links are related to the problem that i am having and i have had no luck with any of the solutions posted.

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=104677

http://www.atikmdag.com/?p=3

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/wddm_timeout.mspx

This seems to be a common issue but has no real solution. I have tested this video card in VISTA ULTIMATE 64 bit and WINDOWS XP 32 bit machines with AWSOME results and no problems with AERO in vista. Ran Memtest on memory and no issues.

ANY AND ALL HELP IS WECLOME =) TIA

PC SPECS are
WIN 7 ULTIMATE 64 BIT UP TO DATE as of 2/25/10
ASUS M4A78T-E MOBO
XFX 5850 BLACK EDITION
X2 CORSAIR 2 GB 1333 DDR3
CORSAIR 750 PSU
AMD PHENOM II X4 945 3.0 GHZ CPU
WD 750 BLACK HD
THERMALTAKE SPEDO CASE
 
Last edited:
under adminstrative events i see these

level date and time source event id task catagory
WARNING 2/25/2010 10:08am Dsiplay 4101 none

there was about 5 of those and some other stuff unrleated to video, erros on Kernel event tracking and some kernel power errors

now i did have some problem reports and sent them off to mircrosoft but no solutions yet. and the only thing that was said in those was DISPLAY ADPATER HAS STOPPED WORKING AND HAS RECOVERD or somthing close to that.

also after every lock up i had to HARD BOOT the pc to bring her back to life
 
delemorte said:
My Apologies if this has been posted b4 but was wondering if anyone can help with this issue.

Brand new build keeps locking up and freezing when ever Aero is enabled and internet exlplorer is in use, or when using the Eperience index it gets half way through and freezes again requiring a hard boot. As long as Aero is turned off i get no problems. I can play games such as DODS and L4D with out a hicup. I let the machine sit all day after first issue and had no problems with Aero turned off. Within 10 min of Aero being on the system will randomly freeze and crash, sometimes the monitor will go black sometimes it wont. i have read up on the GSOD and dont think this applies but not really sure. I have the lastest and greatest drivers and bios from all companies. Have also tried the not so latest and greatest with same result. Also have tried with ATI control panel installed and without. It has been a couple of frustrating days just trying to figure out something as silly as AERO and why it would cause such a fatal crash =(

I have researched the issue and it seems these links are related to the problem that i am having and i have had no luck with any of the solutions posted.

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=104677

http://www.atikmdag.com/?p=3

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/wddm_timeout.mspx

This seems to be a common issue but has no real solution. I have tested this video card in VISTA ULTIMATE 64 bit and WINDOWS XP 32 bit machines with AWSOME results and no problems with AERO in vista. Ran Memtest on memory and no issues.

ANY AND ALL HELP IS WECLOME =) TIA

PC SPECS are
WIN 7 ULTIMATE 64 BIT UP TO DATE as of 2/25/10
ASUS M4A78T-E MOBO
XFX 5850 BLACK EDITION
X2 CORSAIR 2 GB 1333 DDR3
CORSAIR 750 PSU
AMD PHENOM II X4 945 3.0 GHZ CPU
WD 750 BLACK HD
THERMALTAKE SPEDO CASE
Click to expand...

Set the system to take full memory dumps. Install windbg. Wait for crash. Reboot. Open crash dump file Set sympath (.symfix). Reload (.reload). Analyze (!analyze -v). Copy and paste
 
Event ID 4101 Source: Display

generally points to display driver issues.

tried different video drivers? or even clean drivers and reinstall?
 
Tawnos said:
Also, did you upgrade or clean install?
Click to expand...

Yes fresh install...

i will try "Set the system to take full memory dumps. Install windbg. Wait for crash. Reboot. Open crash dump file Set sympath (.symfix). Reload (.reload). Analyze (!analyze -v). Copy and paste " tonight and post findings

j-sta ---> ya its a display driver issue .. .if you click on the links that are in my post you can read up on what i have been dealing with. Also i have tried old drivers new drivers clean install (using driver cleaner)..... with control panel with out control panel.... this is a strange issue.

Thanks for all you guys help =)
 
Downloading the WDK kit now. I also set this registry key. Is this correct?


Key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CrashControl
Value: CrashDumpEnabled
Type: REG_DWORD
Value: 1so I changed the value from 2 to 1
 
Ok. i got all that sintalled but i have no idea how to use the debugger. Think you can give me a bit more direction with this?


" Open crash dump file Set sympath (.symfix). Reload (.reload). Analyze (!analyze -v). Copy and paste " tonight and post findings"
 
When the system crashes, open windbg
press ctrl D to open crash dump
navigate to open %systemroot\%MEMORY.DMP
it will load
type .sympath press enter
type .reload press enter
type !analyze -v press enter
 
im thinking i did not do something correct but here ya go (I had to run symfix but all transactions are below).. BTW when the system locks up it does not BSOD. it just becomes unresponsive.. I also noticed something odd. When i did a 3d benchmark it stops becuase the video driver fails during the test. I am remote at this moment so i dont want to force a crash at this moment but i can do what ever this evening so if i need to change or do what ever let me know.



Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.12.0002.633 AMD64
Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Loading Dump File [C:\Windows\MEMORY.DMP]
Kernel Summary Dump File: Only kernel address space is available

Symbol search path is: *** Invalid ***
****************************************************************************
* Symbol loading may be unreliable without a symbol search path. *
* Use .symfix to have the debugger choose a symbol path. *
* After setting your symbol path, use .reload to refresh symbol locations. *
****************************************************************************
Executable search path is:
*********************************************************************
* Symbols can not be loaded because symbol path is not initialized. *
* *
* The Symbol Path can be set by: *
* using the _NT_SYMBOL_PATH environment variable. *
* using the -y <symbol_path> argument when starting the debugger. *
* using .sympath and .sympath+ *
*********************************************************************
*** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found. Defaulted to export symbols for ntkrnlmp.exe -
Windows 7 Kernel Version 7600 MP (4 procs) Free x64
Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS
Built by: 7600.16385.amd64fre.win7_rtm.090713-1255
Machine Name:
Kernel base = 0xfffff800`02a65000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0xfffff800`02ca2e50
Debug session time: Sat Feb 27 16:09:56.617 2010 (UTC - 5:00)
System Uptime: 0 days 0:00:39.333
*********************************************************************
* Symbols can not be loaded because symbol path is not initialized. *
* *
* The Symbol Path can be set by: *
* using the _NT_SYMBOL_PATH environment variable. *
* using the -y <symbol_path> argument when starting the debugger. *
* using .sympath and .sympath+ *
*********************************************************************
*** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found. Defaulted to export symbols for ntkrnlmp.exe -
Loading Kernel Symbols
...............................................................
................................................................
.....................
Loading User Symbols
PEB is paged out (Peb.Ldr = 00000000`7efdf018). Type ".hh dbgerr001" for details
Loading unloaded module list
......
*******************************************************************************
* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
*******************************************************************************

Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.

BugCheck 1A, {31, fffffa8005e51190, fffff88005299000, fffff8a0030f9de1}

***** Kernel symbols are WRONG. Please fix symbols to do analysis.

*************************************************************************
*** ***
*** ***
*** Your debugger is not using the correct symbols ***
*** ***
*** In order for this command to work properly, your symbol path ***
*** must point to .pdb files that have full type information. ***
*** ***
*** Certain .pdb files (such as the public OS symbols) do not ***
*** contain the required information. Contact the group that ***
*** provided you with these symbols if you need this command to ***
*** work. ***
*** ***
*** Type referenced: nt!_KPRCB ***
*** ***
*************************************************************************
*************************************************************************
*** ***
*** ***
*** Your debugger is not using the correct symbols ***
*** ***
*** In order for this command to work properly, your symbol path ***
*** must point to .pdb files that have full type information. ***
*** ***
*** Certain .pdb files (such as the public OS symbols) do not ***
*** contain the required information. Contact the group that ***
*** provided you with these symbols if you need this command to ***
*** work. ***
*** ***
*** Type referenced: nt!_KPRCB ***
*** ***
*************************************************************************
*************************************************************************
*** ***
*** ***
*** Your debugger is not using the correct symbols ***
*** ***
*** In order for this command to work properly, your symbol path ***
*** must point to .pdb files that have full type information. ***
*** ***
*** Certain .pdb files (such as the public OS symbols) do not ***
*** contain the required information. Contact the group that ***
*** provided you with these symbols if you need this command to ***
*** work. ***
*** ***
*** Type referenced: nt!_KPRCB ***
*** ***
*************************************************************************
Probably caused by : ntkrnlmp.exe ( nt!RtlGUIDFromString+8d01 )

Followup: MachineOwner
---------

0: kd> .sympath
Symbol search path is: <empty>
Expanded Symbol search path is: <empty>
0: kd> .reload
*********************************************************************
* Symbols can not be loaded because symbol path is not initialized. *
* *
* The Symbol Path can be set by: *
* using the _NT_SYMBOL_PATH environment variable. *
* using the -y <symbol_path> argument when starting the debugger. *
* using .sympath and .sympath+ *
*********************************************************************
0: kd> !analyze -v
*******************************************************************************
* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
*******************************************************************************

MEMORY_MANAGEMENT (1a)
# Any other values for parameter 1 must be individually examined.
Arguments:
Arg1: 0000000000000031, The subtype of the bugcheck.
Arg2: fffffa8005e51190
Arg3: fffff88005299000
Arg4: fffff8a0030f9de1

Debugging Details:
------------------

***** Kernel symbols are WRONG. Please fix symbols to do analysis.

*************************************************************************
*** ***
*** ***
*** Your debugger is not using the correct symbols ***
*** ***
*** In order for this command to work properly, your symbol path ***
*** must point to .pdb files that have full type information. ***
*** ***
*** Certain .pdb files (such as the public OS symbols) do not ***
*** contain the required information. Contact the group that ***
*** provided you with these symbols if you need this command to ***
*** work. ***
*** ***
*** Type referenced: nt!_KPRCB ***
*** ***
*************************************************************************
*************************************************************************
*** ***
*** ***
*** Your debugger is not using the correct symbols ***
*** ***
*** In order for this command to work properly, your symbol path ***
*** must point to .pdb files that have full type information. ***
*** ***
*** Certain .pdb files (such as the public OS symbols) do not ***
*** contain the required information. Contact the group that ***
*** provided you with these symbols if you need this command to ***
*** work. ***
*** ***
*** Type referenced: nt!_KPRCB ***
*** ***
*************************************************************************
*************************************************************************
*** ***
*** ***
*** Your debugger is not using the correct symbols ***
*** ***
*** In order for this command to work properly, your symbol path ***
*** must point to .pdb files that have full type information. ***
*** ***
*** Certain .pdb files (such as the public OS symbols) do not ***
*** contain the required information. Contact the group that ***
*** provided you with these symbols if you need this command to ***
*** work. ***
*** ***
*** Type referenced: nt!_KPRCB ***
*** ***
*************************************************************************

ADDITIONAL_DEBUG_TEXT:
Use '!findthebuild' command to search for the target build information.
If the build information is available, run '!findthebuild -s ; .reload' to set symbol path and load symbols.

MODULE_NAME: nt

FAULTING_MODULE: fffff80002a65000 nt

DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 4a5bc600

BUGCHECK_STR: 0x1a_31

DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT

CURRENT_IRQL: 0

LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from fffff80002e0483d to fffff80002ad6f00

STACK_TEXT:
fffff880`078c4848 fffff800`02e0483d : 00000000`0000001a 00000000`00000031 fffffa80`05e51190 fffff880`05299000 : nt!KeBugCheckEx
fffff880`078c4850 fffff800`02dbbc15 : fffff880`05299000 00000000`02610000 00000000`00060000 fffffa80`03140d60 : nt!RtlGUIDFromString+0x8d01
fffff880`078c48a0 fffff800`02da917c : fffffa80`00000000 fffffa80`05315060 00000000`00000000 fffffa80`00000000 : nt!FsRtlGetFileSize+0x951
fffff880`078c48f0 fffff800`02ac84ac : fffffa80`03140d60 fffffa80`060a35e0 00000000`00000000 fffffa80`0698ea00 : nt!NtOpenProcess+0x144
fffff880`078c4950 fffff800`02ac8d8b : fffffa80`060a3520 fffff880`078c4a80 fffffa80`05a7b8c8 fffff800`02db8c39 : nt!KeQueryActiveGroupCount+0x1c4c
fffff880`078c4a30 fffff800`02af209b : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 ffffffff`ffffffff fffff8a0`00000000 : nt!IoPageRead+0x58b
fffff880`078c4ac0 fffff800`02ad4fee : 00000000`00000008 00000000`00000000 fffffa80`05315001 00000000`00000004 : nt!PsGetCurrentThreadWin32ThreadAndEnterCriticalRegion+0x14eb
fffff880`078c4c20 00000000`75e6fa8d : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : nt!KeSynchronizeExecution+0x28de
00000000`0022f554 00000000`00000000 : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : 0x75e6fa8d


STACK_COMMAND: kb

FOLLOWUP_IP:
nt!RtlGUIDFromString+8d01
fffff800`02e0483d cc int 3

SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 1

SYMBOL_NAME: nt!RtlGUIDFromString+8d01

FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner

IMAGE_NAME: ntkrnlmp.exe

BUCKET_ID: WRONG_SYMBOLS

Followup: MachineOwner
---------
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
0: kd> .symfix
0: kd> .reload
Loading Kernel Symbols
...............................................................
................................................................
.....................
Loading User Symbols
PEB is paged out (Peb.Ldr = 00000000`7efdf018). Type ".hh dbgerr001" for details
Loading unloaded module list
......
0: kd> .sympath
Symbol search path is: srv*
Expanded Symbol search path is: cache*;SRV*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
0: kd> .reload
Loading Kernel Symbols
...............................................................
................................................................
.....................
Loading User Symbols
PEB is paged out (Peb.Ldr = 00000000`7efdf018). Type ".hh dbgerr001" for details
Loading unloaded module list
......
0: kd> !analyze -v
*******************************************************************************
* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
*******************************************************************************

MEMORY_MANAGEMENT (1a)
# Any other values for parameter 1 must be individually examined.
Arguments:
Arg1: 0000000000000031, The subtype of the bugcheck.
Arg2: fffffa8005e51190
Arg3: fffff88005299000
Arg4: fffff8a0030f9de1

Debugging Details:
------------------


BUGCHECK_STR: 0x1a_31

DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT

PROCESS_NAME: runonce.exe

CURRENT_IRQL: 0

LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from fffff80002e0483d to fffff80002ad6f00

STACK_TEXT:
fffff880`078c4848 fffff800`02e0483d : 00000000`0000001a 00000000`00000031 fffffa80`05e51190 fffff880`05299000 : nt!KeBugCheckEx
fffff880`078c4850 fffff800`02dbbc15 : fffff880`05299000 00000000`02610000 00000000`00060000 fffffa80`03140d60 : nt! ?? ::NNGAKEGL::`string'+0x6378
fffff880`078c48a0 fffff800`02da917c : fffffa80`00000000 fffffa80`05315060 00000000`00000000 fffffa80`00000000 : nt!MiPerformFixups+0x65
fffff880`078c48f0 fffff800`02ac84ac : fffffa80`03140d60 fffffa80`060a35e0 00000000`00000000 fffffa80`0698ea00 : nt!MiRelocateImagePfn+0x114
fffff880`078c4950 fffff800`02ac8d8b : fffffa80`060a3520 fffff880`078c4a80 fffffa80`05a7b8c8 fffff800`02db8c39 : nt!MiWaitForInPageComplete+0x89c
fffff880`078c4a30 fffff800`02af209b : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 ffffffff`ffffffff fffff8a0`00000000 : nt!MiIssueHardFault+0x28b
fffff880`078c4ac0 fffff800`02ad4fee : 00000000`00000008 00000000`00000000 fffffa80`05315001 00000000`00000004 : nt!MmAccessFault+0x14bb
fffff880`078c4c20 00000000`75e6fa8d : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : nt!KiPageFault+0x16e
00000000`0022f554 00000000`00000000 : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : 0x75e6fa8d


STACK_COMMAND: kb

FOLLOWUP_IP:
nt! ?? ::NNGAKEGL::`string'+6378
fffff800`02e0483d cc int 3

SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 1

SYMBOL_NAME: nt! ?? ::NNGAKEGL::`string'+6378

FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner

MODULE_NAME: nt

IMAGE_NAME: ntkrnlmp.exe

DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 4a5bc600

FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: X64_0x1a_31_nt!_??_::NNGAKEGL::_string_+6378

BUCKET_ID: X64_0x1a_31_nt!_??_::NNGAKEGL::_string_+6378

Followup: MachineOwner
---------
 
Are you using the onboard video? What drivers are you running? If your system isn't blue screening, then it's a TDR, usually caused by running an old video driver. That memory management crash indicates similar, though it could be bad system memory as well. Have you tried running any memory testing tools?
 
i am not using onboard video however the board has it.. I dont think its disabled in the bios so i wonder if its conflicting... Hmm...

I have not run memtest yet but i planned on letting it test tonight. 4 gigs of ram is gonna take me a hot minute to run so i figured over night would be best.
 
What video card are you using, then? What drivers? The question still applies
 
Tawnos said:
What video card are you using, then? What drivers? The question still applies
Click to expand...

From my previous posts in this thread:
delemorte said:
XFX 5850 BLACK EDITION
Click to expand...

delemorte said:
Yes fresh install.... Also i have tried old drivers new drivers clean install (using driver cleaner)..... with control panel with out control panel....
Click to expand...


Currently the latest catalyst driver has been installed. I beleive it was released on 2/17/10. changing driver has not changed the situation.




http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Pages/radeonaiw_vista64.aspx?type=2.4.1&product=2.4.1.3.42&lang=us&rev=10.2&ostype=Windows 7 - 64-Bit Edition

Revision 10.2 Released 2/17/10
 
mem test came up clean no errors. ran it twice.

Onboard video is disabled.

what would be a good GPU stability test?

Think moving the card to a new PCI-E slot would matter?
 
What other processes do you have running? It's possible something is causing a TDR... as for a GPU stability test, try the new FAH on GPU
 
Tawnos said:
What other processes do you have running? It's possible something is causing a TDR... as for a GPU stability test, try the new FAH on GPU
Click to expand...

This did this from 2 fresh installs with no other apps isntalled. Not even AV. Currently i am using NOD32 and the debugging software but that is the only thing that is running at present beyond native windows processes.


If i have not said it before thanks for your input... Im really at my wits end. Luckily with out Aero it seems to run fantastic. If i cant get this sorted out i may throw it at the AMD forums to see what they have to say...
 
Well, for a quick technical overview: a TDR (the flash and systray message you see) is when a message is sent down to the graphics hardware, but is not handled within the timeout period specified. Instead of letting the system end up permanently hung waiting for a blocked call, the system unloads and reloads the user mode component of the driver.

Sometimes, the hardware itself is in an unrecoverable state, so repeated TDRs occur. If enough happen within a small enough period of time, the system bluescreens with an "unrecoverable TDR" failure.

Hence me focusing on graphics hardware, system memory, and apps that might be using the hardware.

Only other thing I can think is to check BIOS version, but you said it was already up to date.
 
I totaly agree this sounds like a video driver issue. However your description of the issue is not exactly correct so i wonder if i failed to explain the issue properly.


This only happens when Aero is enabled and at no other time. There is no flash and then hose or BSOD it just hangs. The whole thing just stops working. No mouse no keyboard no nada. The only option is to hard reset.

The one time it did flash and then tell me the video driver stopped working is when i ran 3d benchmark and it did exactly what you described.

I dont know if those two events are related or not but thats what happens..

I have not flashed the bios on the motherboard. Ill find my bios version and check Asus's website to see whats up with the board.

I FAH all night last night and no stability issues. No errors no hang ups no nothing.
 
for a new board there sure were lots of bios updates including CPU compatability and system stability updates. The current bios was from 10/2009 and there had been 4 updates since then. So i have updated the most current bios.. Rebooting now. Will try out aero tonight when i get home.
 
bios update went good. the error is still there but now a bit different. The error actually acts like the TDR errror like you describe. it no longer sits there simply hung up... i need to go back thru those previous fixes and see if i can sort this out now.
 
thats it. i give up.. time to format and go back to vista... geeze, what a waste of time and energy this has been.
 
I'm very surprised, since the driver model hasn't changed. I'd like to help more if you'd let me, but understand any reluctance :)
 
Tawnos said:
I'm very surprised, since the driver model hasn't changed. I'd like to help more if you'd let me, but understand any reluctance :)
Click to expand...

I tell you what. When i wipe it tonight i will repartition this drive and set up to duel boot. Because eventually it needs to be sorted out. If you have any other suggestions i would be more than happy to hear them..
 
I'd like a dxdiag from a "working" vista install and a "failing" win7 one
 
Tawnos said:
I'd like a dxdiag from a "working" vista install and a "failing" win7 one
Click to expand...

I can do that. I just reinstalled vista and she appears to be running fantasitic... I should have this done tonight and win 7 back on tomorrow.. Then i can get the DXDIAG for ya.
 
OldMX said:
That one got my attention.
Click to expand...

Can you explain why it got your attention?


Description: runonce.exe is the Microsoft Run Once wrapper. It is used by the installation programs for third party applications. It allows the installation program to startup again after boot up to give the user the possibility to make further configurations. This process should not be removed to ensure that programs are installed correctly on your system.


Recommendation: runonce.exe should not be disabled, required for essential applications to work properly..
 
Issue discovered.. Video card is bad and needs to be RMA'd. I installed a 8600 nvidia card and all ran smooth. Something is wrong with this card. contacted XFX to set up Replacement.
 
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