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Stay or Go?

T

theseeker

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
2,245
I am about to do a complete upgrade or a complete rebuild. I would appreciate any comments, opinions or any suggestions you have.
My current system is in my sig.

I am considering three options:
1. Keep my basic system and upgrade my CPU's (2 256's or 2 285's) Total Cost-$1,140
2. Change the MB and the CPU's ( 2 FX-74'S) which means I will have to buy new RAM-Total cost $2690
3. Go to the dark side and go with 1 E6600, eVGA 680 SLI MB and 4Gb of Corsair Dominator RAM-Total Cost $1310

Money is not an issue. I am just looking for the biggest bang for the buck and hopefully something that will be future proof for at least 2 years.

Once again, I would appreciate any input.
 
Upgrading to 256's really isn't worth it. 285's might be if you do a lot of multi-tasking. There's a guy at 2cpu who's selling matched pairs of 285's, brand new for $740. Might be worth checking out.

If you're looking for future proofing intel might be worth it, you could even go for a quad-core chip.
 
Rather than going with 4x4, why not go with new socket F opterons? That's my plan for moving up from my dual 246s. I'm looking at the Tyan K9WE with a pair of low to mid level dual cores, and then making the leap to dual quads by the end of the year. I wouldn't be happy going from workstation grade hardware back to consumer grade, so I'm looking at Opterons or Xeons. I haven't found a dual Xeon board that meets my requirements (mainly 4 PCIe 16x slots) so it looks like I'm staying AMD.
 
If it were me and I was going to rebuy ram, I'd go for two 1.6ghz quadcores in 771 setup.

If you already have ram and just want to ugprade cpu's, the best bang for the buck is 270's or 275's In any case, it's all about the cores.

if you want a good gaming box go intel and go dualcore

if you want a good multi processing box, 270's are the best bang for the buck. I have dual 285's as it is and I love them, but paid only $400 a pop on ebay back in november.

IMHO 256/856 ar enot worth it....not multicore and intel is faster right now with an e6300 oc'ed. Another option if you just want 2 cores is you can find dual 252's for $200'ish on ebay.

I occasionally see 1U quad socket F's...and if I knew for sure it would be compatible with k8l or amd quadcore, I'd grab one of those for $1800 and grab the cheapest single/dual cores I can find for F and grab 4 quadcores when they come out.
 
Ockie said:
QX6700 ...

/thread.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure I agree. Though the QX6700 is certainly an impressive processor, and does outperform a four core AMD setup today, it's certainly not going to beat a dual AMD barcelona setup if multithreaded performance is important. It's also not going to outperform dual quad core Xeons. If multithreaded performance is not important, why even go quad core? It's not needed today. For someone coming from workstation hardware, I can only assume the system is used for more demanding things than gaming.

The OP wants something that is future proof for at least 2 years. Swapping a QX6700 for the E6600 in his third option puts the price tag at around $2000. If the Opteron 285s are available for $740/pair as Slartibartfast says, that definitely wins on bang for the buck. The QX6700 may be faster but it's certainly not three times faster. At $2000 I think he'd be better off going with a system that could grow to 8 cores. Going from a QX6700 to an 8 core setup will most likely require new RAM, cpu, and motherboard yet again, assuming the move to DDR3 happens by the time Intel has an 8 core cpu out. The E6600 will likely outperform his dual 252s, but for use that takes advantage of four cores, it won't outperform dual 285s. Bang for the buck seems to strongly favor upgrading his current CPUs, and being future proof seems to favor a dual socket system.
 
Remind yourself you are comparing a processor that was released roughly two months ago with a processor that ISN'T EVEN OUT YET


How unfair is that? Imagine comparing your car today to the 2020 version, no comparison at all.


Future proof=Intel
Cheap=replace CPU's but prob won't make much a difference


The CPU for the most part is not the problem, it's everything else



edit: Choice 4 (which is what I may do myself)---- Wait until Sept and go Intel Quad Core 45nm
How you like them apples AMD fan boys. I bet you Intel will have 45nm released before AMD even releases "Barcelona"
 
IntelOwnz said:
Remind yourself you are comparing a processor that was released roughly two months ago with a processor that ISN'T EVEN OUT YET
Click to expand...


You seem to have misunderstood my point, and it's possible I miscommunicated it. AMD's Barcelona core Opterons will plug into a current Socket F board, though they will run at HT2.0 speeds rather than HT3.0. This shouldn't be a major handicap. Purchasing a dual Socket F AMD system today gives you the ability to move to an eight core system, as does purchasing a dual socket 771 Intel system. My understanding is that both AMD and Intel will be using a new socket by the time they have 8 cores in one package, so you'll be unable to upgrade without buying a new board, and likely new (DDR3) RAM. I didn't mean to imply bias towards AMD in my post, though I do still feel that a pair of Opteron 285s is the best bang for the buck in this particular case. Things may change a little with the Intel price cuts coming soon (next month?) but even then, I'd rather have a workstation board than a gaming board in my system. As for replacing the CPUs not making much difference going from a pair of 252s to a pair of 285s, I'm quite sure going from two cores to four at the same clock speed will make a significant difference. It would be roughly equivalent to going from an E6600 to a Q6600. Going from 252s to 256s would probably not be worth the effort.
 
I think AMD will most definately release a new chipset to get the most out of their Barcelona, even if todays socket Fs are compatible your going to take a performance hit. I would definately go the Intel route or just wait if you have your mind set on Barcelona. Penryn intels next step in conroe is set for summerish launch as well and we dont know how those will perform yet. Id expect them to be pretty good since they will be 45nm if im not mistaken.
 
Update:

I went over to intel and the system performs exceptionally, although I do miss having 2 CPU's. Now I have to sell the old system!
 
FlyinBrian said:
I think AMD will most definately release a new chipset to get the most out of their Barcelona, even if todays socket Fs are compatible your going to take a performance hit. I would definately go the Intel route or just wait if you have your mind set on Barcelona. Penryn intels next step in conroe is set for summerish launch as well and we dont know how those will perform yet. Id expect them to be pretty good since they will be 45nm if im not mistaken.
Click to expand...


If you go look at AMD’s proposed new architecture they have addressed this whole thing in what I think is a most elegant manor.

Anand went into great detail, using real words we can all understand, to make that point.

This new AMD chip could indeed be a winner, especially for database or Excel work, not to mention the OS or just browsing the web. They took about 4 or 5 extra steps Intel chose to leave out of the C2D, especially with pipe lines and cache management.

Second use of this post to answer a different question, but still revelant;)
 
every once in a while I see 1U , 4 * 1207 barebones on ebay. For sure this with some barcelonas (maybe 1 to start with, upgradeable to 4?) should smoke pretty much anything else in this thread, and the barebones is $1800 to start with (at least that is what I've seen them going for).

Rob
 
Robstar said:
every once in a while I see 1U , 4 * 1207 barebones on ebay. For sure this with some barcelonas (maybe 1 to start with, upgradeable to 4?) should smoke pretty much anything else in this thread, and the barebones is $1800 to start with (at least that is what I've seen them going for).

Rob
Click to expand...

I can only recommend that you shoot yourself rather than get near these shitty Tyans. Yep, yet another board with defectively designed VREGs. The PSUs I tested were also pure crap, if you were lucky. To say nothing of the backplanes that would randomly drop disks because of signal problems - you guessed it - on the backplane. I haven't seen a worse barebone since the ECS/Amptron garbage with the Durons soldered into uATX boards.

Fact is, a decent quad 1207 board will set you back $1800 by itself. PSU? That's another $400-800 depending (unless you want to void the warranty on the board.) Case with a good backplane, runs anywhere from $500 to $5000 depending on your size. A good 1U with 2xSATA costs around $250ish - for EATX. For a quad Opteron board on 13x16? Only aware of two, one's SCA the other's SATA, both are $900 with 1000W PSU.
 
AreEss said:
I can only recommend that you shoot yourself rather than get near these shitty Tyans. Yep, yet another board with defectively designed VREGs. The PSUs I tested were also pure crap, if you were lucky. To say nothing of the backplanes that would randomly drop disks because of signal problems - you guessed it - on the backplane. I haven't seen a worse barebone since the ECS/Amptron garbage with the Durons soldered into uATX boards.

Fact is, a decent quad 1207 board will set you back $1800 by itself. PSU? That's another $400-800 depending (unless you want to void the warranty on the board.) Case with a good backplane, runs anywhere from $500 to $5000 depending on your size. A good 1U with 2xSATA costs around $250ish - for EATX. For a quad Opteron board on 13x16? Only aware of two, one's SCA the other's SATA, both are $900 with 1000W PSU.
Click to expand...

Tyan Mb's are not a bad product. However, their customer support is equivalent to that of ASUS. The 2895 has been rock solid from a stability standpoint. It works great with XP-64 and even Vista 64! I just wish I had another use for it, but I don't. Off to e-bay!
 
theseeker said:
Tyan Mb's are not a bad product. However, their customer support is equivalent to that of ASUS. The 2895 has been rock solid from a stability standpoint. It works great with XP-64 and even Vista 64! I just wish I had another use for it, but I don't. Off to e-bay!
Click to expand...

Wrong. Tyan's products are garbage. They're the only vendor to get smacked by Intel's Revenue Protection Department on a dual Xeon board, and they got smacked hard. The S2895GNR is easily one of the worst boards I have ever dealt with with regards to voltage stability and longevity. Under any significantly loading, they go very, very quickly. And have a tendency to take very expensive redundant power supplies with them. The cause? The worst voltage regulation design in the field short of the Asus "hey look, no capacitors" AM2 board. Hell, Tyan makes the only dual Opteron boards I've ever seen capable of completely destroying a power supply with their godawful excuse for regulation alone.
 
AreEss said:
Wrong. Tyan's products are garbage. They're the only vendor to get smacked by Intel's Revenue Protection Department on a dual Xeon board, and they got smacked hard. The S2895GNR is easily one of the worst boards I have ever dealt with with regards to voltage stability and longevity. Under any significantly loading, they go very, very quickly. And have a tendency to take very expensive redundant power supplies with them. The cause? The worst voltage regulation design in the field short of the Asus "hey look, no capacitors" AM2 board. Hell, Tyan makes the only dual Opteron boards I've ever seen capable of completely destroying a power supply with their godawful excuse for regulation alone.
Click to expand...

I've got to agree with some of AreEss's points. I had numerous power supply issues with my Tyan K8WE (S2895). Not to mention Tyan has a number of other product issues.

I'd like to hear more about the Intel Revenue Protection Department issues he's referring to though. I don't know anything about that. Additionally, to respond to the original post, I'd go with an eVGA 680SLI and a QX6700 or Q6600. Having come from dual Opteron 254's to a 680SLI based system with an E6600, I'd say it's worth while and very cost effective compared to the other choices mentioned in the post.
 
There goes the value of my system! Thanks guys!
Having said that, it does work very well with Vista 64.
 
Well, Supermicro got a lot of fire for massive failures of the H8DCE, too. I'm not sure how to rate Supermicro and Tyan failure-wise, there's really not enough data for these pretty rare boards on publihc forums. My own Supermicro H8QC8 runs flawless but then I don't do ninja overclocking there.

Intel's own efforts seem to be underminded by messes they seem to make out of the BadAxe2, apparently due to a high failure rate when switching to lead-free solder.
 
AreEss said:
I can only recommend that you shoot yourself rather than get near these shitty Tyans. Yep, yet another board with defectively designed VREGs. The PSUs I tested were also pure crap, if you were lucky. To say nothing of the backplanes that would randomly drop disks because of signal problems - you guessed it - on the backplane. I haven't seen a worse barebone since the ECS/Amptron garbage with the Durons soldered into uATX boards.

Fact is, a decent quad 1207 board will set you back $1800 by itself. PSU? That's another $400-800 depending (unless you want to void the warranty on the board.) Case with a good backplane, runs anywhere from $500 to $5000 depending on your size. A good 1U with 2xSATA costs around $250ish - for EATX. For a quad Opteron board on 13x16? Only aware of two, one's SCA the other's SATA, both are $900 with 1000W PSU.
Click to expand...

I don't think it was a tyan. I think it was a supermicro IIRC.
 
theseeker said:
Tyan Mb's are not a bad product. However, their customer support is equivalent to that of ASUS. The 2895 has been rock solid from a stability standpoint. It works great with XP-64 and even Vista 64! I just wish I had another use for it, but I don't. Off to e-bay!
Click to expand...


Please tell me this is not the 1U 939 I'm thinking of. If it is, the pci-e x 16 is USELESS as it only supports videocards! Who puts a highend videocard in a 1U??????
 
budec said:
Tyan motherboards are solid. Are you thinking of the Super Micro ones?
Click to expand...

Hm, I'm sure my tyan transport came with a tyan motherboard :) I never did get the pci-e x16 to recognize a storage controller. Windows said the board needed a bios upgrade....
 
budec said:
Tyan motherboards are solid. Are you thinking of the Super Micro ones?
Click to expand...

Uh... Which Tyan board are you using? Tried tossing a couple storage controllers in it? How'd that go? The board I've got only has two slots, and *still* manages to misbehave with only *one* storage controller in it.
 
unhappy_mage said:
Uh... Which Tyan board are you using? Tried tossing a couple storage controllers in it? How'd that go? The board I've got only has two slots, and *still* manages to misbehave with only *one* storage controller in it.
Click to expand...

You are right on the money with this post. I thought my Tyan K8WE was fine until I threw a LSI MegaRAID U320-2 in it.

Mind you I had option rom issues with the board without adding storage controllers. They were easy enough to work around, so I didn't complain. After trying storage controllers in it, things changed quite a bit. It was a nightmare to work with. A board of that price and caliber shouldn't be that problematic. The SCSI version of the board has a hard enough time using it's own controller on top of that. Such issues are unforgivable.

budec said:
Tyan motherboards are solid. Are you thinking of the Super Micro ones?
Click to expand...

I don't think so. I've owned a couple of Tyan motherboards and they have been anything but solid. The Supermicro boards I've built servers and higher end workstations out of have been solid. And they don't have option rom issues that I've ever encountered.
 
Once I got the crappy x64 drivers sorted out, my Supermicro build has been fantastic.

Has anyone mentioned the fun of the Tyan S2460 anti-PSU mobo? :p
 
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