MatixWSTfoLiFE
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can anyone give me a full definition on what and what do static ips are/do?
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Static IPs
- Thread starter MatixWSTfoLiFE
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Static IPs are so the same computer will get the same IP each and everytime it requests one from the router. This is set on computer side, and sometimes router side. Whereas you have DHCP (more than likely what you have set up) where it will basically say "Here, this one isn't in use, take this one." Unless you are doing port forwarding for software, it really isn't worth it to have it enabled.
YeOldeStonecat
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Not always just from a router, but from a DHCP service, which on larger networks is usually a server.
Also, lets not limit this to just a computer, and on just a LAN...it can also be the internet IP address of your network/building. Such as the WAN interface of your router.
"Why is a static IP wanted?" Lets say you want to run some service, or make something available on the network, or on the internet. You generally want its address to be the same, so you can find it time after time. Think of it like...if you wanted to call someone..it's nice if their phone number remains the same, isn't it? Just think if their phone number changed at random times....wouldn't it be a pain in the butt for you...if you wanted to call them a lot?
So a static address from your ISP, your public internet address...what you'd get on the WAN side of your router from the ISP. That makes it easy for you if you want to VPN to your office, or you want to run a remote control service like Terminal Server/Remote Desktop/PcAnywhere/VNC, or you wanted to make your Outlook Web Access available, or you wanted to tie together your office with another office across the state or country with a router to router VPN tunnel, or you host your own mail server, or web server. Etc etc. Having that public IP address of your network static makes things much easier. Yes some of those can be done using a dynamic DNS service...but that's a poor mans bandaid approach, and not as reliable.
On the network side...some "devices" on your network should be have a static LAN address. Such as your servers, print servers, or workstations running special functions. Many reasons for this. The IP address can be done on the computer side, by editing TCP/IP properties manually. Or...if you manage a larger network and have a domain controller...you're (hopefully) using the servers DHCP service...and you'd create what's called "Reservations"...where a workstation will be handed the same IP address time after time, based on the MAC of the workstations NIC. One reason for this could be to allow remote access to the computer for an employee working from home, or if they're road warrier out on a trip..and need access to their workstation through RDC or some other remote app.
On a smaller scale, say you want to run some game server on your home LAN, you'd want to open/forward ports on your router and point them to a LAN IP address of that "server". Well, once you point say...port 27,960 to your servers LAN IP of 192.168.1.100...you don't want that server to pickup a different IP address the next time it reboots, right? Else that port forwarding would become "stale", incorrect, point to a dead location. So there's a basic example of why you'd want a static LAN IP address.
Also, lets not limit this to just a computer, and on just a LAN...it can also be the internet IP address of your network/building. Such as the WAN interface of your router.
"Why is a static IP wanted?" Lets say you want to run some service, or make something available on the network, or on the internet. You generally want its address to be the same, so you can find it time after time. Think of it like...if you wanted to call someone..it's nice if their phone number remains the same, isn't it? Just think if their phone number changed at random times....wouldn't it be a pain in the butt for you...if you wanted to call them a lot?
So a static address from your ISP, your public internet address...what you'd get on the WAN side of your router from the ISP. That makes it easy for you if you want to VPN to your office, or you want to run a remote control service like Terminal Server/Remote Desktop/PcAnywhere/VNC, or you wanted to make your Outlook Web Access available, or you wanted to tie together your office with another office across the state or country with a router to router VPN tunnel, or you host your own mail server, or web server. Etc etc. Having that public IP address of your network static makes things much easier. Yes some of those can be done using a dynamic DNS service...but that's a poor mans bandaid approach, and not as reliable.
On the network side...some "devices" on your network should be have a static LAN address. Such as your servers, print servers, or workstations running special functions. Many reasons for this. The IP address can be done on the computer side, by editing TCP/IP properties manually. Or...if you manage a larger network and have a domain controller...you're (hopefully) using the servers DHCP service...and you'd create what's called "Reservations"...where a workstation will be handed the same IP address time after time, based on the MAC of the workstations NIC. One reason for this could be to allow remote access to the computer for an employee working from home, or if they're road warrier out on a trip..and need access to their workstation through RDC or some other remote app.
On a smaller scale, say you want to run some game server on your home LAN, you'd want to open/forward ports on your router and point them to a LAN IP address of that "server". Well, once you point say...port 27,960 to your servers LAN IP of 192.168.1.100...you don't want that server to pickup a different IP address the next time it reboots, right? Else that port forwarding would become "stale", incorrect, point to a dead location. So there's a basic example of why you'd want a static LAN IP address.
YeOldeStonecat
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Fint said:
IMO kinda muddy there....a reservation is still a form of static IP, the machine still asks for one, it's just assigned a static one based on its MAC because of the custom reservation made for it...but it's still assigned that IP by the DHCP service. It's just one of several means of assigning a static IP.
It's "static" in the sense that it doesn't change, but a "static IP" and "DHCP" are two very very different things. In one, a machine is leasing an IP address, gateway, and DNS server assignment from a central server for a time specified by that central server, and in another, you define the IP address, gateway, and DNS servers yourself on that machine.YeOldeStonecat said:
Referring to a machine that has a DHCP reservation as having a static IP is quite incorrect, as "static IP" is something fairly specific that is mutually exclusive to any sort of DHCP.
YeOldeStonecat
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Guess we agree to disagree...to me "static" means..."not changing", as opposite of "dynamic". IMO DHCP can give workstations that same, fixed, non-changing, same IP address 24/7 through "reservations".
To me, be the workstation given a fixed IP address by setting TCP properties locally, or done through a reservation on a DHCP service...it's still, to me, static.
2x of several approaches with the same result.
To me, be the workstation given a fixed IP address by setting TCP properties locally, or done through a reservation on a DHCP service...it's still, to me, static.
2x of several approaches with the same result.
SJConsultant
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YeOldeStonecat said:
With the DHCP Reservations taking the win for easier management when changes are necessary.
Static is static meaning not changing unless one makes a change. It doesn't matter the method of doing static IPs, more that the end result is the same.
DHCP = dynamic host configuration protocol, ie, not static
Granted, a DHCP reservation is an IP that doesn't change, but its still dynamic in that the client is requesting some random IP, but the server just happens to give it the same one each time. Its kind of a middle-ground.
Granted, a DHCP reservation is an IP that doesn't change, but its still dynamic in that the client is requesting some random IP, but the server just happens to give it the same one each time. Its kind of a middle-ground.
YeOldeStonecat
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SJConsultant said:With the DHCP Reservations taking the win for easier management when changes are necessary.
Si!
It's nice to be able to never have to leave your home to set that up on a clients network 50 miles away. Had to do that a few weeks ago, VPN in, RDC to server, bring up DHCP manager, note the MAC of certain workstations, create reservations, remote edit the registry to enable remote desktop, pull lease...done.
YeOldeStonecat
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Fint said:DHCP = dynamic host configuration protocol, ie, not static
By default...the DHCP service does that...yes. But routers with a more advanced DHCP service, and of course server OS's...they have that option of reservations...but could we also call reservations "static mappings"?
Static mappings has several areas it can apply to....You can attempt to redefine the term "static IP" however you want. However, the fact remains that "static IP" does not mean "an IP address that doesn't change." A computer with a DHCP reservation may have an IP address that doesn't change, and is thus "static" in the conventional sense, but a "static IP" it is not. It is by definition diametrically opposed to a static IP - it is a dynamic IP that simply happens not to change.
Your definition of "static IP" is simply not the industry standard definition, and in the IT world your definition is entirely wrong. Try to tell some veteran CCNA's that a machine with a DHCP reservation is the same thing as a machine with a static IP and you'll get a couple of chuckles.
Your definition of "static IP" is simply not the industry standard definition, and in the IT world your definition is entirely wrong. Try to tell some veteran CCNA's that a machine with a DHCP reservation is the same thing as a machine with a static IP and you'll get a couple of chuckles.
Well, I tend to think of it this way...
Static IP means "set that way at the workstation". There is no DHCP at all.
Lease reservation means DHCP occurs, but you get the same IP each time.
The difference is in the details...the DHCP lease passes DNS and other info (time server, for example). Setting the IP to be static means none of that can happen. And as SJConsultant mentioned, static IP's mean management at each workstation; lease reservations mean centralized management.
Static IP means "set that way at the workstation". There is no DHCP at all.
Lease reservation means DHCP occurs, but you get the same IP each time.
The difference is in the details...the DHCP lease passes DNS and other info (time server, for example). Setting the IP to be static means none of that can happen. And as SJConsultant mentioned, static IP's mean management at each workstation; lease reservations mean centralized management.
Have to back up kumquat here.
In the IT world if you say a machine has a static IP then that means that the machine DOES NOT talk to any server to obtain its IP.
Yes you can have reserved IPs with a DHCP server and in all sense it is the same as a static IP, however the DHCP server can CHANGE the lease of that IP at anytime if configured to do so.
Important distinction here is that a static IP has no lease and the machine does not rely on another machine to obtain the IP. On a configuration stand point reserved DHCP addresses are much easier to work with, plus you can also change the DNS at will with that setup. With a Static IP configuration is more complex, however once setup and no changes needed a static ip is less prone to errors based on the KISS principle.
In the IT world if you say a machine has a static IP then that means that the machine DOES NOT talk to any server to obtain its IP.
Yes you can have reserved IPs with a DHCP server and in all sense it is the same as a static IP, however the DHCP server can CHANGE the lease of that IP at anytime if configured to do so.
Important distinction here is that a static IP has no lease and the machine does not rely on another machine to obtain the IP. On a configuration stand point reserved DHCP addresses are much easier to work with, plus you can also change the DNS at will with that setup. With a Static IP configuration is more complex, however once setup and no changes needed a static ip is less prone to errors based on the KISS principle.
YeOldeStonecat
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kumquat said:
A dynamic IP that does not change...hmmm.....seems diametrically opposed to Webster to me.
OK, so lets look to another example, on the other side of the router....you get a business DSL or cable account from your ISP, which is usually described as an account with a "static IP address".....according to many ISPs "product" page on their website. Look at their various levels of broadband, and focus towards their business grade packages, which also are usually "static IP" accounts, versus the basic "dynamic IP" entry level/home grade accounts. I've rarely had to set the WAN interface of the router manually, it's 99 and 44/100 % of the time driven at the authentication server (redback or radius or whatever the ISP uses) by their PPPoE account. Not all unlike a reservation. Are the ISP's wrong in calling these "static IP accounts"? Hrrrrmmmm?
YeOldeStonecat said:
Actually I have a Business account with Cox Cable and I have a STATIC IP that I set on MY router. PPPoE setups are generally not used in a true Business line, atleast I would never touch an ISP that advertises Business and uses PPPoE.
YeOldeStonecat
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m1abram said:
I've done a couple of hundred broadband router installs...across 4x states in my area...across quite a few different ISPs. I believe I can count the number of business DSL setups that I've had to set the static IP on the routers WAN interface on 1 hand...and I think only 2 or 3 fingers. SBCs business DSL packages are all PPPoE. Verizon is the one where I've done the entries on the WAN side of the router on a couple, and that's been for their higher speed package only lately, the other several dozen I've done...are just PPPoE, the IP address is controlled by the PPPoE info. I just did another 6 meg business DSL line today matter of fact.
YeOldeStonecat
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kumquat said:
Ditto. Doing this long enough to retire soon.
But no trying to explain how ISPs descriptions are incorrect? They don't get it either?
I mean, comon...step up to 10,000 feet and simply things here...LAN side or WAN side...an IP is the same thing. I won't buy that a static IP on the LAN is any different than a static IP on the WAN. Yes? No?A static IP is not a static IP if there's DHCP involved, dude. That's the beginning and the end of it.YeOldeStonecat said:Ditto.
But no trying to explain how ISPs descriptions are incorrect? They don't get it either?
The ISP's either have marketing guys that are dead wrong, or you're misunderstanding what they're offering, My experiences point to the latter, considering I've obtained and set up "static IP" accounts from at least 5 different ISP's, including Time Warner, Cox, Verizon, and AT&T. I would not pay money for a service advertised as "static IP" that in fact was DHCP (or, worse, PPPoE).
An IP address is an IP address, no matter if it's on "the WAN" or "the LAN." It doesn't make a difference what class of address we're using. DHCP is DHCP is not static IP.
YeOldeStonecat
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kumquat said:
There's no misunderstanding that...business account, static IP address..something to point the mx record to, or the VPN client, or the other router across the state so establish that VPN tunnel between the Sonicwalls, or whatever.
PPPoE can be static...it's simply a type of authentication.
SJConsultant
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All I am going to say on the matter is that every reference I have ever found on "static ip" has stated it is a "permanent" addressed assigned to a network node. Now whether that "permanent" assignment is done via DHCP reservations or by the admin entering that info is quite childish to dispute since the end result is the same.
I'd gladly change my mind in this regards if someone could please point to a respected industry reference stating that "static ips" by definition and industry standard, are only those which are manually configured on a node and that DHCP reservations are not considered static ip addresses.
I'd gladly change my mind in this regards if someone could please point to a respected industry reference stating that "static ips" by definition and industry standard, are only those which are manually configured on a node and that DHCP reservations are not considered static ip addresses.
I have my IPCop router set to give out a specific IP to every computer in the house.
Mine is 192.168.1.10
Mom's is 192.168.1.8
Dad's Laptop is 192.168.1.11
Dad's Laptop is 192.168.1.9
So, because it gets the same IP each and everytime (Set Router side, not client side), this tells me that it is a static IP.
Mine is 192.168.1.10
Mom's is 192.168.1.8
Dad's Laptop is 192.168.1.11
Dad's Laptop is 192.168.1.9
So, because it gets the same IP each and everytime (Set Router side, not client side), this tells me that it is a static IP.
I'm going to say that if an address is assigned via DHCP then it isn't a static address, regardless of whether you have rules that give a particular MAC address the same IP address each time.
Someone mentioned the case where you get a static IP address from an ISP. You're paying extra for it(generally), so it had pretty damn well be static. Suppose the ISP gives you this "static" IP address via DHCP. How does it know it is you and to give you your IP address that you paid for? Your MAC address? What happens when your network card dies and you put a new one in with (obviously) a different MAC address. Now, how does the ISP know it is you in order to give you the static IP address that you paid for?
With that being said, static mapping of IP addresses using DHCP essentially performs the same function as real static address, and is generally quite a bit easier to manage. If I'm paying my ISP for a static IP address, though, I want to be able to use it no matter what MAC address my node has.
Someone mentioned the case where you get a static IP address from an ISP. You're paying extra for it(generally), so it had pretty damn well be static. Suppose the ISP gives you this "static" IP address via DHCP. How does it know it is you and to give you your IP address that you paid for? Your MAC address? What happens when your network card dies and you put a new one in with (obviously) a different MAC address. Now, how does the ISP know it is you in order to give you the static IP address that you paid for?
With that being said, static mapping of IP addresses using DHCP essentially performs the same function as real static address, and is generally quite a bit easier to manage. If I'm paying my ISP for a static IP address, though, I want to be able to use it no matter what MAC address my node has.
YeOldeStonecat
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I mentioned above..the ones I've done (and believe me..it's been an aweful lot...an aweful lot)...it's reserved via the users PPPoE account..their username. So it doesn't matter if I use a DStink router, a Sonicwall, a Cisco PIX, a Belkin, a Linksys, a Watchguard, a 3COM NIC, an Intel Pro NIC...I can swap external interface devices 88 thousand times a day, as long as I log in with the accounts proper PPPoE username and password, I'll get that same IP address all day long.
I've only run into one situation where the ISP mapped the static IP via MAC....and it's a very odd setup, an island off the coast of New England...which had their little itty bitty phone company purchase their ISP services from an ISP wholesaler (horrible one at that) located in Atlanta Georgia. I had a VPN tunnel setup between that island and another office of theres in another state on the mainland....and replaced the router out there one day. For some reason, their ISP tech didn't know why, but for some reason they got the wrong IP address, so he locked it down again using the MAC of the WAN interface of the TZW router. A whopping 7 minute phone call or something like that settled it. Not the normal routine for them, as they also always did it via the PPPoE, as does SBC/SNET which is one of the more common DSL ISPs I deal with on a day to day basis.
On another note...yes the very core of the DHCP service started out as just a dumb service blindly handing out IP addresses. But the need for a fixed IPs arose, with centralized management...so another function was added to beef up the DHCP service, and that was reservations. So the humble DHCP service grew, and matured, with added functionality. It satisfied the need of having nodes on a fixed IP address, all under one roof. I tend to look at the big picture...here's the need (a fixed IP address), and here's several different ways of obtaining that need (going to the workstation itself and editing TCP/IP properties, or through the DHCP manager and creating reservations, or a couple of other methods not mentioned here)...just as usually the way with Windows..there's many different ways of getting to the same intended goal. The end result is the same.
I've only run into one situation where the ISP mapped the static IP via MAC....and it's a very odd setup, an island off the coast of New England...which had their little itty bitty phone company purchase their ISP services from an ISP wholesaler (horrible one at that) located in Atlanta Georgia. I had a VPN tunnel setup between that island and another office of theres in another state on the mainland....and replaced the router out there one day. For some reason, their ISP tech didn't know why, but for some reason they got the wrong IP address, so he locked it down again using the MAC of the WAN interface of the TZW router. A whopping 7 minute phone call or something like that settled it. Not the normal routine for them, as they also always did it via the PPPoE, as does SBC/SNET which is one of the more common DSL ISPs I deal with on a day to day basis.
On another note...yes the very core of the DHCP service started out as just a dumb service blindly handing out IP addresses. But the need for a fixed IPs arose, with centralized management...so another function was added to beef up the DHCP service, and that was reservations. So the humble DHCP service grew, and matured, with added functionality. It satisfied the need of having nodes on a fixed IP address, all under one roof. I tend to look at the big picture...here's the need (a fixed IP address), and here's several different ways of obtaining that need (going to the workstation itself and editing TCP/IP properties, or through the DHCP manager and creating reservations, or a couple of other methods not mentioned here)...just as usually the way with Windows..there's many different ways of getting to the same intended goal. The end result is the same.
jpmkm said:
PPPoE is NOT a business level service. I have not run into ANY highend routers or firewalls that support PPPoE. PPPoE was a stop gap measure for ISPs to have better control of this "new found" always on network. It is by no means something I would want between my servers and the rest of the world. Which if you need a static IP it is cause you are running servers.
YeOldeStonecat
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Yup, Cisco PIX and Sonicwall routers...I've deployed a decent amount of them using PPPoE. They have PPPoE support built into them. Never had any issues sticking servers behind them, things run just fine. Exchange, Web, Sharepoint, OWA, Terminal and Citrix, VPN, etc etc blah blah...
It's the predominant authentication for DSL in my area, across the states I do work in. It's just an authentication type, and not relevant to static IPs. It's not related to business level service or not, it's just the type of authentication the ISP chose to use. The big common DSL ISPs out there tend to use it more than the smaller, specialized DSL ISPs....yes, that's true.
It's the predominant authentication for DSL in my area, across the states I do work in. It's just an authentication type, and not relevant to static IPs. It's not related to business level service or not, it's just the type of authentication the ISP chose to use. The big common DSL ISPs out there tend to use it more than the smaller, specialized DSL ISPs....yes, that's true.