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Stacking radiators?

A

arnemetis

Supreme [H]ardness
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Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
4,286
This issue came up while I was trying to figure out a case for my next pc. I thought it would be a good idea to take two 120x3 radiators and stack them together at the top of the case, with fans in between and on top to pull air, kinda like: |<-F | R |<-F | R | I was met with people saying it's not such a good idea, or why would I want to do that anyway.

As for the why, I wanted to maximize usable space inside my case, and stacking them together on top would leave most of the front and bottom of the case open. I will need a minimum of five 5.25" bays available, so putting a rad up front doesn't seem feasable.

Regarding it being not such a good idea, that's why I'm making this thread now. It seemed to me the performance loss would be miniscule, and I couldn't see any reason why the fans in between couldn't still move air. I'm certain there will be greater resistance and I will be moving a bit less air than two seperate rads&fans.

Finally, I know that two triple rads is overkill, but I'd rather have some extra room to play with. While the discusion of my loop isn't the focus here, I'll include it to give you a bit of an idea: two mcr320's, 2 ddc2's with petras top, two swiftech microres's, two GPU blocks (probably mcw60's, still unsure), and use the onboard block of evga's upcoming 780i custom board. While unsure right now how I'll split up the two loops, I'll be cooling a quad core, two graphics cards, the motherboard, and the ram (gonna get those ocz's and make some custom 1/2" to four 1/4" splitters to maintain flow).

Thanks in advance to everyone who replies; let's try and keep it focused on the stacked rad idea and its feasability for my (any?) system.
 
The main problem with stacking is the barbs of the radiators. You cannot stack them exactly in parallel so you need to offset one to take into account the barbs and doing this will lose some radiator surface. Also, the radiators is sensitive to ambient temperatures so if you cool a radiator, the hotter air will get thru the 2nd radiator and sometime, this will cancel the cooling effect.

You may be better off getting a single PA120.3 to cool the video cards and the chipsets. Forget about cooling the ram, not worth the hassle and the expense. Buy a PA120.1 or PA120.2 for the quad and install it elsewhere or even outside in the rear.
 
I'd say Xilikon hit the nail on the head. Stacking isn't terrible per se if you've got decent fans pushing the air through your stack. (The faster they're blowing, the smaller the temperature difference of the air coming out of the first radiator).

The thing is the barbs are goint to be a pain. You'll have to build some kinf of shroud for the middle to keep them separated enough, and you may still be forced to use elbows. The big realization to make is that if you have room for a stack of rads, you've got room for a PA120.3. Also, if you can afford two MCR320s, it's not much more for the thermochill - especially if you value the time it's going to take to get a mounting solution for the stack. Everything will be simpler to set up: the tubing, the fans, the shrouds, and you'll actually save some room when it's all said and done. If the PA120.3 isn't enought for everything, throw a second rad somewhere else in your case for the remainder.

If you don't think the PA120.3 is enough, I'd put the CPU on a separate loop with maybe a MCR220, and throw everything else on the other loop. A double might be easier to fit in the front (or on the floor) than a triple, while still leaving enough bays open.

Just some thoughts though. Whatever you do, have fun with it!
 
Well first as far as the radiators losing surface area - Ill have the ends with the barbs alternate, so there won't be an issue of them mis-aligning. Excuse the ascii..
8|_____|
. |_____|8
That takes care of the 'main' problem, as the barbs will come out on opposite ends. If you look at a picture of swiftech's mcr320, youll understand.

As far as the PA's, 2 mcr320's cost less than a single - I can't fathom the added expense being worthwhile. Again, it was my understanding that the air traveling over the radiator won't change temperature that much, I wonder if anyone has done a test of intake vs exaust temps on a rad?

As far as the ram, I'd like to eliminate the need to have some rediculous fan strung up over my motherboard somehow, so by cooling the chipset (which in the mobo I want cools the mobo circuitry as well) and ram, I can eliminate needing anything beyond the air being drawn by the rads. If I don't cool the ram, how can I keep it cool on its own without a fan over them?

Finally, I have no interest in mounting anything outside the case this time.
Thanks Xilikon, I'll consider your advice! I can't wait to get more advice/suggestions/insults :)

*edit* damn, nonlnear replied while i was typing mine! Hmm, I wonder, how does a pa120.3 stack up vs the two triple radiators? If its comparable by say 80% of the cooling power, I'll more seriously consider it, as having two loops is certainly going to be a tubing nightmare(one loop with cpu,dual gpu, chipset, and ram seemed liek a lot). I gotta say, I don't think there will be any trouble as the mcr radiators have a shroud all around and screwholes on both sides - I won't need to make anything custom. I'll admit too, part of the desire to do this stacked idea is because I think it will be fun. I'm also going to cool the ram partially for the fun of making the splitters. The pa120.2+mcr220 idea will be a good backup plan, but lets continue on with the stacked discussion! I'll probably use medium speed yates for the fans from petras, if that matters.
 
It may work fine in stacked mode by orienting the barbs as you outlined only if you use very strong fans with a lot of static pressure to work thru essentially 3 inch of fins. If there is no enough static pressure, the air will basically be stopped in the middle and stagnate.

A easier way would be to have a double on the front and a triple on the top while keeping 2-3 bays if you use a tall case like a Stacker 832. A TJ-07 can also work with 2 radiators in the bottom but it's a tight fit. I'm saying this since I also read your thread about what case for watercooling in the Cases section.

Edit : Caught your edit so I'll say that the medium Yates won't cut. You need to go with 120mmx38mm thick fans basically.

 
Yuck. 38mm fans would make the stack too thick, and no case would fit them in that orientation. If thats true, I gotta scrap the idea. The static pressure is really that bad, even with another set of 3 fans on top of the thing helping to pull(if it was unclear, there would be a total of 6 fans)? I read a test over at xs that comapred fans and the medium yate was best on a radiator, thats why I picked it.

And also thanks for reading my other thread, I considered trying to make just one thread but there are too many issues I think, and the right people wouldn't see what was appropriate.

*edit* Maybe you're seeing something I'm not, but the stacker 832 can't house a rad up top if you intend on having a power supply installed, at least not a triple? And no matter what I do, I need 5 bays up front, I can't budge from that. Sadly the pa160.3 up top and mcr220 in front idea is gaining more ground.
 
Stacking fans could work but keep in mind that 2 fans stacked = 50mm thick so it's not a good idea as well.

The best bet is one on the top and one on the front as stated above ;)

 
So, my idea was terrible, o well. SO lets say I've got one of those PA120.3's up top (quite a bit thicker than swiftechs), and a mcr220 in front somehow. I then have fan questions, as my medium yates were shot down for the stack, I dunno if they are good for this now...
I'd like to not have loud fans, as one of the thigns I like about water is its quietness. If I wanted loud fans I'd stick with high end air cooling and get similar results.

SO what would be the best fans for the PA120.3? How about the mcr220? I also noticed there is a seperate shround available for the PA120's to make them even MORE thick! Would this be a good idea? With all this added together, it looks like the whole thing will ring in about 4" thick (assuming 25mm fans)!

So lastly about the loop split - will a 2x120 fan really cool a quad core well enough, as suggested below? I suppose I'd use the triple for the gpus/chipset/ram. I figured on using a ddc-2 w/ petras top for each loop, however the triple rad run has gotten longer since it will have the premium radiator and the quad will be all alone on a regular double. This still sound ok?

Thanks again to everyone, one of these days I might get around to actually starting this project.
 
Yes, dedicate the MCR220 for the cpu only with a pair of 50-60 cfm fans. Yate Loon D12SM-12 from Petra's are great choices and very silent (I have 4 myself). no need for the shroud and just slap 3x Yates like above and be done.

The GPU and chipsets can afford being a bit hotter than optimal since thjey aren't temp limited. The CPU is sensitive and separating it from the rest is a great idea and the MCR220 is more than enough to cool the cpu, even a quad overclocked to 3.8 GHz and 1.5v.

 
your idea might make a pretty interesting project, sandwiching 3 sets led fans between two black radiators in a push/pull would really be a sight to behold. you would have to use 90 degree angled barb adapters though.
 
rennyf77 said:
your idea might make a pretty interesting project, sandwiching 3 sets led fans between two black radiators in a push/pull would really be a sight to behold. you would have to use 90 degree angled barb adapters though.
Click to expand...

While I've (mostly) abandoned this idea, it seems I never quite got my full vision across to everyone. Let's make some more ascii and see if I can't clear this up, so everyone can laugh at the true vision I had:

Top Rear of Case
________________________
|... [fan][fan][fan]
|. 8[======== ]
|... [fan][fan][fan]
|... [ ========]8
|

(The 8's are the barbs, dots are just to space things, forum doesn't like a bunch of spaces) Both sets of fans would of been 'pulling' the air out the top of the case. O well.

Xilikon, thanks for the advice. So i just need 2 of those yates for the mcr220, and 3 more for the pa120.3? I'm glad to hear I don't need the shroud. What do you think about my pump choice? I've got the mcp655 now and am happy with it, but it seems from reading around the ddc-2 w/ top is a better choice now. Any additional advice/comments/insults greatly appreciated :D
 
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