*SQUEEEE* MY DEGREE!

A

Annoyance

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*SQUEEEE* I'm a college freshman. MAJORS are Network Management/Cyber Security AND Business Management, with a Minor in Ethics, and I will also be taking effective speech, minority intergroup relations, and sociology :) Any advice, suggested reading, etc?

Annoyance
 
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My suggestion would be to drop minority intergroup relations, sociology, and ethics and take something useful instead. Also, edit out the caps in your thread title before an admin does it for you.
 
Probably don't have a choice with those classes. I had to take 2 accounting classes and I have never used ANY of it.
At the end of the day, those non-technical classes helped me to see the big picture. I work with people all day, and everyone is different in their own way. I have to be able to communicate with people at all many different skill levels, all of whom have to use a computer in some way.
 
see if you can find an on campus job that will help you get work experience. Like working at the school's NOC etc.

Also start exploring areas to see what you want to do. Your classes should help somewhat but you will want to start getting certifications depending on the route you want to go. Sure you may be doing "cyber security" but what do you want to do with that after college? Auditing? Management? Security Engineer? Network Engineer?

I wish my college offered an actual MIS degree that was worth something, they have an IT degree which is laughed upon as all the teachers are ex-Novell losers.
 
Annoyance said:
*SQUEEEE* I'm a college freshman. MAJORS are Network Management/Cyber Security AND Business Management, with a Minor in Ethics, and I will also be taking effective speech, minority intergroup relations, and sociology :) Any advice, suggested reading, etc?

Annoyance
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Why..?

Just concentrate on being good at one thing you really like, then move to the next thing you like, and so on. If you take on too much, you're only damaging yourself (e.g., study time, understanding of material, money, college life).
 
Don't double major. Major in Networking / Security with a Minor in Business OR Major in Business and Minor in IT (This will get you further then your first IT job).

INTERNSHIPS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THEN CLASS. I don't care that you graduated with high honors, that you turned in the best lab, or that you were the president of the underwater CAT5e making club. What I do care about is that you have practical knowledge of setting up enterprise class networks, deploying servers, virtual environments, troubleshooting routing issues, configuring firewalls, VPNs, etc etc etc. Basically I care that you know how to run my LAN without me having to babysit you.

Being a RIT ANSA / ISF dropout myself I can tell you school will not teach you what you need to expect to survive in the actual job market. Let me restate that SCHOOL WILL NOT PREPARE YOU! What I spent my freshmen year learning was all stuff that I had taught myself in highschool, and they will not let you test out of a lot of it, and the stuff you can test out of you don't get credit for testing out of, therefore you still have to stay there for 4 years. The friends I have still there got to their third year before I looked at the homework they were doing and it was actually challenging to me. In the 1 year I spent working I learned more then the average networking major did in 3. I can also tell you that if you plan on taking a 20+ credit hour workload to be about to double major and finish in 4 years you will have no time for a job, friends, social life, etc.

College is a lot of fun, it will be the best 4 years of your life if you do it right, and if you are in a school with a good internship placement program getting a job afterwards will be no problem. Not to mention make a lot of friends who can get you jobs (for instance I stayed in touch with all the guys I hung out with my freshmen year, and now I have 2 of them working for me. Just remember you have all the time in the world to study underwater basket weaving after college, don't spend $3k a credit on it when it isn't going to help you get a job.
 
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C7J0yc3 said:
Don't double major. Major in Networking / Security with a Minor in Business OR Major in Business and Minor in IT (This will get you further then your first IT job).

INTERNSHIPS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THEN CLASS. I don't care that you graduated with high honors, that you turned in the best lab, or that you were the president of the underwater CAT5e making club. What I do care about is that you have practical knowledge of setting up enterprise class networks, deploying servers, virtual environments, troubleshooting routing issues, configuring firewalls, VPNs, etc etc etc. Basically I care that you know how to run my LAN without me having to babysit you.

Being a RIT ANSA / ISF dropout myself I can tell you school will not teach you what you need to expect to survive in the actual job market. Let me restate that SCHOOL WILL NOT PREPARE YOU! What I spent my freshmen year learning was all stuff that I had taught myself in highschool, and they will not let you test out of a lot of it, and the stuff you can test out of you don't get credit for testing out of, therefore you still have to stay there for 4 years. I can also tell you that if you plan on taking a 20+ credit hour workload to be about to double major and finish in 4 years you will have no time for a job, friends, social life, etc.

College is a lot of fun, it will be the best 4 years of your life if you do it right, and if you are in a school with a good internship placement program getting a job afterwards will be no problem. Not to mention make a lot of friends who can get you jobs (for instance I stayed in touch with all the guys I hung out with my freshmen year, and now I have 2 of them working for me. Just remember you have all the time in the world to study underwater basket weaving after college, don't spend $3k a credit on it when it isn't going to help you get a job.
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This.

The networking and internship opportunities that open up to you when you attend a good technical school are very crucial (I think). My first "paying" IT position was acquired because my old college buddy (who was a team leader then) recommended me for the clinical helpdesk dept, and my first clinical internship was acquired through my teacher's recommendation. If it wasn't for my intership time and my friend's recommendation, I probably wouldn't have gotten the job interview in the first place.

I'm also a college drop out, and I'm currently making more than my brother who holds a Masters in IT Management and BS in Mechanical Engineering.
 
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My school did not help me a ton with internships. I did one internship through a program here in Cleveland. It was not even in IT but in sales and marketing. The connections I made that summer led me to my fulltime job in IT.
I guess everything has a way of working out. Stick to it, study hard but have fun too.
PS, it took me an extra year, but it was worth it!
 
Agree on the school not reflecting real life.

If you do learn one thing though, learn how to look up the correct answer. Or look up a close answer and adapt it.
 
computerpro3 said:
My suggestion would be to drop minority intergroup relations, sociology, and ethics and take something useful instead. Also, edit out the caps in your thread title before an admin does it for you.
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Ok. Edit for the title. Those courses I listed as extras are in the required electives choices. I decided to not go for philosophy as I would be sure to make the professors head asplode. He asks EVERY new class, "Is the glass half empty, or half full?" I would be sure to respond with, "The glass is twice as big as it needs to be. I also believe this question asks what our contributions to society are as a whole, and the glass is societies standard by which we are measured. No one person contributes nothing to society, and I believe many contributions do not have a quantifiable measurement when compared to other contributions and the contributions of others."

I currently have a 103 average in sociology, and my midterm grad was 105% Extra credit. My final paper for the class will be on the sociological differences between Western and Eastern gamers, and how their culture influences their action in games.

Yes. I play WoW and D2.

Annoyance
 
Langly said:
see if you can find an on campus job that will help you get work experience. Like working at the school's NOC etc.

Also start exploring areas to see what you want to do. Your classes should help somewhat but you will want to start getting certifications depending on the route you want to go. Sure you may be doing "cyber security" but what do you want to do with that after college? Auditing? Management? Security Engineer? Network Engineer?

I wish my college offered an actual MIS degree that was worth something, they have an IT degree which is laughed upon as all the teachers are ex-Novell losers.
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I have applied for work study (part of my grant package) in the NOC on Campus. It helps that I have known the IT director for about 25 years, since the days of his dial up BBS :)

I am going into network security management and security auditing. The Security + class MIGHT be fun ... >.>

*Hides his utilities HD and tries not to point out too many flaws... like their ubiquitous use of Cisco 7 Encryption...*
 
I'm 35, every IT job I've ever gotten, including side work, has been because of who I knew.

This cannot be stressed enough, KNOW PEOPLE! That might mean interships or participating in local IT groups, really anything to get out there and meet people in your field.

When you graduate, you'll be competing against scores of other people with the same credentials, as well as people with years of experience under their belt.

Your resume is going to be basically identical to every other graduate. That means as far as HR is concerned, the top guy in your class is the same as the guy who barely passed.
 
exchange keys said:
Why..?

Just concentrate on being good at one thing you really like, then move to the next thing you like, and so on. If you take on too much, you're only damaging yourself (e.g., study time, understanding of material, money, college life).
Click to expand...

I have a 4.1 GPA at the moment, and 12 credits of classes. I work an hour a night on my homework. It would only be 12 more credits for Business Management.

Annoyance :)
 
You will find that even on some of the most technologically advanced schools's networks they don't practice what they teach. This is usually due to two things

1: The IT department is far too overworked to patch every single flaw and vulnerability in a 10,000+ device network.

2: They leave things more open or more unsecure because again they have 10,000+ devices connecting to the network and they need everything to work. Your iPhone, Gentoo box, XBOX, and random IP enabled adruno build all need to be able to work together on the same network without causing each other problems.

Also your security classes aren't going to be as fun as you think they will be. Its all theory, not practice. Much like getting your CISSP, they will have you read a book, take a test on it, do one or two labs to prove that you can actually secure a network (notice I said secure not attack) and you are done.
 
C7J0yc3 said:
Don't double major. Major in Networking / Security with a Minor in Business OR Major in Business and Minor in IT (This will get you further then your first IT job).

INTERNSHIPS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THEN CLASS. I don't care that you graduated with high honors, that you turned in the best lab, or that you were the president of the underwater CAT5e making club. What I do care about is that you have practical knowledge of setting up enterprise class networks, deploying servers, virtual environments, troubleshooting routing issues, configuring firewalls, VPNs, etc etc etc. Basically I care that you know how to run my LAN without me having to babysit you.
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I am going to be working in the campus NOC next semester, and I am looking at internships already :)

I understand school will not teach me about the real world. I've seen MANY a netsec major on my campus bomb out in real world situations. (Please dont get me started on the guy who deployed routers at a big business and HE insisted on WEP since it was "the most compatible". I recently demonstrated breaking his 16 character WEP password on my i7 Laptop... With a script. *sigh*)

As for 3k a credit? Currently 119.00 a credit :) *praises community college*

Annoyance
 
jcollett said:
God forbid ethics gets in the way of his career goals! :rolleyes:
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Ethics will help me stay a bit more on the "straight and narrow"

Mind you, I will STILL charge double my normal computer repair rate for my family members. Every last one of them are back stabbers of the highest order. Trash talking even ME when I did work for HALF my normal rate. Now they even insist I teach them what I am learning so they can do it themselves, and I'm sure they would try to do the work themselves for others while trash talking me... :)

Annoyance
 
C7J0yc3 said:
You will find that even on some of the most technologically advanced schools's networks they don't practice what they teach. This is usually due to two things

1: The IT department is far too overworked to patch every single flaw and vulnerability in a 10,000+ device network.

2: They leave things more open or more unsecure because again they have 10,000+ devices connecting to the network and they need everything to work. Your iPhone, Gentoo box, XBOX, and random IP enabled adruno build all need to be able to work together on the same network without causing each other problems.

Also your security classes aren't going to be as fun as you think they will be. Its all theory, not practice. Much like getting your CISSP, they will have you read a book, take a test on it, do one or two labs to prove that you can actually secure a network (notice I said secure not attack) and you are done.
Click to expand...

Securing a network is not THAT difficult. RSNA-CCMP for the routers at a MINIMUM for sensitive areas, separate VLANs for secure and not secure, and dont let people sit at a secure use terminal if they are not allowed. It's amazing how often this one isn't listened to. Also... I have to get them to STOP post-it noting passwords!

Edit - And I know this is just at a minimum :)
Annoyance
 
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I took ethics in college, man it was the most boring subject ever. I thought it was something more practical for our daily lives but nope, its just stuff discussed with the likes of Aristotle and Confucius, which is difficult to apply in the real world. Hopefully your class is more enjoyable. I did enjoy my race relations class though,
 
Annoyance said:
I am going to be working in the campus NOC next semester, and I am looking at internships already :)

I understand school will not teach me about the real world. I've seen MANY a netsec major on my campus bomb out in real world situations. (Please dont get me started on the guy who deployed routers at a big business and HE insisted on WEP since it was "the most compatible". I recently demonstrated breaking his 16 character WEP password on my i7 Laptop... With a script. *sigh*)

As for 3k a credit? Currently 119.00 a credit :) *praises community college*

Annoyance
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Except you couldn't understand his point that WEP is the most compatible. Yes it's easy to break but you should have asked what devices only support WEP and work to change that.

Not trying to pick battles here.. like others have said experience while in school is hugely important. I cringe when I hear someone who's beginning to work on their resume a week after they graduated. Read as much as you can, if that works for you, from your textbooks. I've found I learn a lot more in the classes that I do the reading in versus listening along because I'm comfortable enough with the technology. At your internship, try and be reliable and available for projects without being pushy or having a know it all attitude. It can be tough at the beginning to make sure you're seen as someone who's available for a task while at the same time staying out of the way at the right time. Instead of asking if I can do this or that, I just always mention that I'm available if they need help with anything.

This applies to many new jobs: beyond skill, people need trust in you that you can complete tasks competently and on time.
 
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adam30k said:
Except you couldn't understand his point that WEP is the most compatible. Yes it's easy to break but you should have asked what devices only support WEP and work to change that.
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The ultimate reason for WEP? People who had OLD routers at home and PSPs on the job. I *bad word for crap* you not... Not as bad as a subcontractor job to install a printer that I got at a MAJOR financial institution... They never asked for ID, never asked WHO I was, and just let me in the back when I said I was there to install the printer...

Annoyance
 
Annoyance said:
Securing a network is not THAT difficult. RSNA-CCMP for the routers at a MINIMUM for sensitive areas, separate VLANs for secure and not secure, and dont let people sit at a secure use terminal if they are not allowed. It's amazing how often this one isn't listened to. Also... I have to get them to STOP post-it noting passwords!

Edit - And I know this is just at a minimum :)
Annoyance
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I like how you wrote "RSNA-CCMP" instead of "WPA2 with AES". It's like you're reading your books and retaining terms to memory. In all honesty, you could probably learn to be a bit more humble and not be so judgmental of other people's work until you have been placed in his/her shoes. You haven't acquired the necessary experience yet to make assumptions like that. People will take notice of that and it won't help you in the end.

Please don't be that stereotypical "know-it-all" IT guy. Don't be that guy...
 
exchange keys said:
I like how you wrote "RSNA-CCMP" instead of "WPA2 with AES". It's like you're reading your books and retaining terms to memory. In all honesty, you could probably learn to be a bit more humble and not be so judgmental of other people's work until you have been placed in his/her shoes. You haven't acquired the necessary experience yet to make assumptions like that. People will take notice of that and it won't help you in the end.

Please don't be that stereotypical "know-it-all" IT guy. Don't be that guy...
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QFT: Had an intern like that at my last job. He didn't last very long.

Also just to point out a few things from experience

1: Community colleges are usually not known for their IT departments. The lax security you are seeing is because

-They have students, interns, etc managing the network who don't have much experience properly running a network and therefore the network is crap
-You can do it fast, you can do it right, you can do it cheap. Pick two. Usually fast and cheap are the ones picked for colleges because you only have a couple weeks between semesters to deploy, test, and debug a new network solution. The simpler it is the easier.
-The above is also why things never get fixed. You have two weeks to stage deploy and test. You find a problem with a system, however the system is running great and everyone is happy. You bring the problem to the higher ups and say I want to fix it and I have to take this critical system offline. They give you the next break to fix it, or maybe a 2 hour window at night on some random night. By the time you get your maintenance window to fix your security hole, there will be more important things (firmware updates, hypervisor reboots etc) that need to be done and installing your security patch becomes very low priority.
-Physical security and general security policy are usually disregarded because either people are too lazy to enforce / follow them, or they make things too complicated for the average user. For instance RIT has a WPA2 + RADIUS network on campus, however many of the non technical students just use the public unsecured network because they can just connect, punch their DCE into the captive portal and start browsing instantly. Same with the place I work, we set a default password and require people to change it every 30 days. I would say about 80% of the office uses that default password with the next sequential number after (So lets say the default was Password1 they change to Password2 then Password3 etc). People will always write down their passwords, they will always grab whatever open lab PC there is even if it says "SECURE USE ONLY." Its just life.


2: When those of us who have been doing this for a long time suggest that we do something a certain way, there is usually a reason. It may not be "right" however if it fits more into what the client wants, or if it makes your life easier then that's more important then what is "right." Now there are exceptions to this rule, and there are people out there doing it wrong because they can't figure out how to do it right. However if I do something like not put a user/pass on my switches because there is no real harm someone could do to my switches (oh boy gonna delete a VLAN on me? I'll just repush the config, check kiwi to figure out who did it, and be on my merry way) and it makes my life easier when I am managing it, then yea I'm going to do it.

3: Until there is a breach Security is usually a very low priority. Even with all the recent high profile hacking people just care that email is up, and they can get to the internet. So long as that happens they could care less that skiddies are running around the network popin boxes. Those who bring these flaws to the administration are usually met with punishment not praise. Found this one out in highschool after pointing out a flaw in their AD security I was suspended for a day and had my student AD account disabled for the rest of the year. People usually assume that when you are bringing this kind of information to them it isn't because you want to be helpful, but because you want to gloat about ho 1337 you are.

I would also have to agree with others views on Ethics courses in college. Business ethics may be closer to what your looking for.
 
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exchange keys said:
I like how you wrote "RSNA-CCMP" instead of "WPA2 with AES". It's like you're reading your books and retaining terms to memory. In all honesty, you could probably learn to be a bit more humble and not be so judgmental of other people's work until you have been placed in his/her shoes. You haven't acquired the necessary experience yet to make assumptions like that. People will take notice of that and it won't help you in the end.

Please don't be that stereotypical "know-it-all" IT guy. Don't be that guy...
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This is very important advice IMO. Seriously a big part of working in IT is communication. You must be able to communicate with your end users, coworkers, bosses and etc in a pleasant and professional manner. We have actually turned away, in the past six years I've been here at my current job; at least 5 guys who were the typical know it all guys and were also highly qualified. Three of those guys are working at manufacturing plants today (not doing IT work) and the other two I don't know about. They absolutely bombed during the interview process. It really was a shame.
　
Being abrasive and acting as the stereotypical know it all IT guy, will only alienate the people you support, your co workers and more importantly the people that sign your pay checks.​
 
exchange keys said:
I like how you wrote "RSNA-CCMP" instead of "WPA2 with AES". It's like you're reading your books and retaining terms to memory. In all honesty, you could probably learn to be a bit more humble and not be so judgmental of other people's work until you have been placed in his/her shoes. You haven't acquired the necessary experience yet to make assumptions like that. People will take notice of that and it won't help you in the end.

Please don't be that stereotypical "know-it-all" IT guy. Don't be that guy...
Click to expand...

I will work on being more humble. Thank you.

Annoyance

*turns off InSSIDer*
 
I will work on dropping the know-it-all attitude :)

I will be doing business ethics :)

Annoyance
 
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