SQL or Access Classroom in a book?

[piako]

Can anyone recommend a product just like the adobe classroom in a book but for SQL or Access?

I have a DB/SQL class this semester and a class in Access but the texts for those classes completely suck. I need something like the adobe classroom in a book where there is a step-by-step process that produces results. I used the Adobe classroom in a book back in high school to learn PS, Illustrator, and Page Maker.

I'm stuck learning SQL and access because all I have are syntax manuals and no projects to work on and learn how to USE the technology. I just need some type of classroom in a book type thing.

I have access to 8i on campus so I can create tables in that and then do queries there. I'm using open office db for access and it works similarly but I'm stuck on both Access and SQL because I know how to create tables and make a query but I need some practice material. The Adobe classroom in a book has projects you work on and then they teach you how to use the tools to do stuff. I need something like that.

That's it, I think I need a practice manual or something with projects and queries to be made. That's all. I'm sure these exist, but I don't know anything about how to get one. I have plenty of time to mess around in sql and access but nothing really to do. Plus I have tests coming up in access and sql.

Edit: If I don't find anything I'll probably just end up making up my own data tables and relationships and then just creating problems for myself to solve. How silly that would be. I need to sit down with my professors and tell them they need to teach use what the hell we're doing instead of talking about genetic algorithms.

 

[mikeblas]

The book I used to learn SQL, called A Visual Guide to SQL was great. Unfortunately, that was a long time ago and the book is apparently out of print.

You might try the Visual Quick Start guide to SQL, by Chris Fehily. I don't have it, but I have some of the other QuickStart guides and they're pretty good. Plus, it's only $7 from Amazon in the used section.

I've never found a good book on databases myself. The theory books don't discuss modeling in an approachable manner and figure that SQL is actually an implementation detail. The SQL books don't discuss modeling or the database theory you need to write great applications, and certainly don't discuss programming. And the programming books are just awful for their treatment of databases.

One day, I'll write another book -- this time, giving balanced coverage of database development, application and server-side programming, modeling, and theory.

 

[enlightenedby42]

I've never found a good book on databases myself. The theory books don't discuss modeling in an approachable manner and figure that SQL is actually an implementation detail. The SQL books don't discuss modeling or the database theory you need to write great applications, and certainly don't discuss programming. And the programming books are just awful for their treatment of databases.

One day, I'll write another book -- this time, giving balanced coverage of database development, application and server-side programming, modeling, and theory.

I'll buy it if you write it. I'm three weeks deep into my first job in the industry, using Interbase databases and SQL with Delphi as the development platform. I haven't made it to the mediocre database classes we DO have in the computer science program at the school I go to, so if I want to know anything deeper than syntax I have to bug my coworkers.

I mean, not once in any of the books does it mention how to make things efficient, or what happens when you apply a sloppy refresh to an enormous database. I'm mostly using the IB manuals and an old "Teach Yourself SQL in 14 Days" (or something to that effect) book.

Design is a huge thing in the real world, but I'm definately noticing its not even addressed to any real degree in the books. Really a trial by fire and it seems like there aren't too many good resources outside of other programmers. This is also a shortcoming in Comp Sci curriculum. Crazy to overlook that because databases are just a little bit important in the real world. Design really the name of the game, and one only need look at the poorly designed programs we're having trouble with at work to see why. An application that works poorly hardly works at all.

Hell, I have a buddy who is an industrial friggin engineer who wound up database programming for a living and they don't cover good design in CS courses and DB books made for programmers? Absolutely nuts.

 

[piako]

I guess I just need to work through the Premiere Products exercises then. The big Pratt book is pretty good. The little one is ok, but doesn't really go into any detail about anything. It's more like type this and you get this. I think if I go through all the examples in the back of the book (small SQL book) and start creating my own databases in open office I'll be good.

I'm more worried about access because the access book I have is pretty lame. I guess I can just use the SQL background portion of open office database to do queries instead of the gui crap.

Thx for the recomendations.

 

[mikeblas]

I'll buy it if you write it.

Thanks for your support. Now all we have to do is enlist about 34,999 of your closest friends, and I can almost break even.

This is also a shortcoming in Comp Sci curriculum.

The ACM has been rumbling about fixing CS curricula. It seems many of their fellows are in agreement that something is wrong, but they haven't yet come up with a concrete plan of action.

 

[enlightenedby42]

Thanks for your support. Now all we have to do is enlist about 34,999 of your closest friends, and I can almost break even.

The ACM has been rumbling about fixing CS curricula. It seems many of their fellows are in agreement that something is wrong, but they haven't yet come up with a concrete plan of action.

Hah. I'll call the A's through the L's or M's in the local phone book and see what I can drum up. My guess is that it is due to this and some other things you've said about the technical book writing business in various posts that the mean quality of the existing books is pretty low.

I worked for the department for a couple years and was privy to curriculum discussions that the chair and co-chair had a few times, and from the sound of it even if they agreed on standards getting the schools to implement said standards would be another thing entirely.

I started college as an adult, and in my mind it is little more than a glorified, ultra expensive vo tech. Its painful that as a comp sci major, not three weeks ago I couldn't have picked a relational database out of a lineup yet could have told you a good bit about sociology or the works of Kant. Wasting money much....?

 

[roaf85]

modeling and databasing are two totally different concepts. Do you want to combine UML and SQL concepts in one book?

My professor is a genius in this field.

http://www.ait.unl.edu/siau/

 

[mikeblas]

UML is good for modeling objects (classes, really) and their design. "Modeling" also refers to database modeling. This describes the logical schema of the database and how it "models" the real-world entites being tracked in the database, as well as the relationships between them.

UML can be used for database modelling, but I don't think it's too common -- perhaps moreso among object-oriented databases, but it's not often used among database modelling.

Database modelling is not only a part of the database developmnet world, it's a key step to a successful database-oriented project.

The relational model can also refer to the collection of the relational algebra, the relational calculus, and the type system (domains) that describe data. The seminal reference in this area is CJ Date's book. (ISBN 0321399420)

There's scads of books about data modeling and analysis.