Spotify Says Apple Is Blocking Its App

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You know, this sounds like something Apple would pull, even if it was at the expense of its own customers. The sad thing is, if you want to have access to Apple's App store, you have to play by their rules.

Spotify says Apple is making it harder for the streaming music company to compete by blocking a new version of its iPhone app. In a letter sent this week to Apple’s top lawyer, Spotify says Apple is “causing grave harm to Spotify and its customers” by rejecting an update to Spotify’s iOS app. The letter says Apple turned down a new version of the app while citing “business model rules” and demanded that Spotify use Apple’s billing system if “Spotify wants to use the app to acquire new customers and sell subscriptions.”
 
If I'm understanding this correctly, Spotify is arguing that it should be able to fully profit from the ecosystem and infrastructure that Apple has created, but they should not have to pay Apple any thing in exchange for that.

Ok.....Google and Microsoft are over there, they seem like a better fit for your desired business model.
 
Why don't they submit a version of the app where you can't get a subscription directly from? Netflix requires a pre-existing account and I don't think you can sign up and pay for it through the app.

I know that Tidal offers in app subscriptions but they are $5 more than if you were to subscribe on their site so I can see why Spotify wouldn't want to bend to Apple's ways.
 
I have all Apple, but I hate apple. Four family with iPhones and iPads. We have all lost our "Apple" appeal. Our next upgrades are up for grabs.
 
Sonicks said:
Why don't they submit a version of the app where you can't get a subscription directly from? Netflix requires a pre-existing account and I don't think you can sign up and pay for it through the app.

I know that Tidal offers in app subscriptions but they are $5 more than if you were to subscribe on their site so I can see why Spotify wouldn't want to bend to Apple's ways.
Click to expand...

Because they are trying to use popular Apple hate in their favor. They are hoping they can get someone powerful enough to help them make more money. The fact they are sending this "letter" to everyone tells me there is an agenda here. Apple has been charging 30% for a very long time (maybe even ever). You pay your yearly Developer fee ($100 I think) and then you pay 30% of whatever you make through the App store. The guy charging a buck and big company like Spotify all pay the same percentage.

Unfortunately most people will just look it as that Spotify should be able to charge the same amount that Apple does. And ignore the details
 
The rules apple made for the app store are entirely BS.
Spotify should be allowed to charge its standard price.
Apple is getting stupid greedy and this is not going to work out for them.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
The rules apple made for the app store are entirely BS.
Spotify should be allowed to charge its standard price.
Apple is getting stupid greedy and this is not going to work out for them.
Click to expand...


Sure, why not. We all know it costs Apple zero dollars to run and maintain the Apple Store, and the software that drives it. Completely free to them :meh:
 
westrock2000 said:
If I'm understanding this correctly, Spotify is arguing that it should be able to fully profit from the ecosystem and infrastructure that Apple has created, but they should not have to pay Apple any thing in exchange for that.

Ok.....Google and Microsoft are over there, they seem like a better fit for your desired business model.
Click to expand...

So tell me, exactly what entitles Apple to the rent seeking behaviour of getting 30% OF ALL REVENUE simply because Spotify's free app is available in their app store? I thought you guys were supposed to be against exorbitant taxation... and believe me, this IS a tax.
 
TechLarry said:
Sure, why not. We all know it costs Apple zero dollars to run and maintain the Apple Store, and the software that drives it. Completely free to them :meh:
Click to expand...

the app store probrably only costs a fraction of what they make but that dosnt matter. it is a product of apple and apple can do whatever their heart desires with it
 
It's one thing for apple to get a cut of all app sales on their platform, but trying to get 30% of member subscription services that exist outside of their app store? That's just laughably absurd. Does spotify try to bill and accept payment through the app? If so then they need to just require you to sign up and enter your payment details online through a webpage, like Netflix does. Now you are just downloading an app from the store, and paying elsewhere. Although I imagine studies show that people are more likely to begin payment if given the option through the app rather than requiring them to do something else first, so Spotify is probably worried this could hurt their revenue a little.
 
Pretty sad to see this. It sounds anti-competitive to me considering they just so happen to run a competing music streaming service... But this has been going on for years...

Back a few years ago, RDIO used to let you subscribe inside the app on iOS devices. But it cost something like $3-$5 more (if I remember correctly) than if you went to the website and subscribed there.

It's too bad but I think Spotify should just tell people to go to their website for subscription instead of trying to do anything through the app. It's too bad it has to be that way. It's things like this that get everyone going on about the Apple tax and in cases like this, I agree. It's ridiculous.
 
My daughter is the ONLY one in my family to own an Apple device. She has had nothing but problems with Apple's desire to ru(i)n/corrupt her music collections and streaming experiences whether they be audio or video.

As I see it- Apple supplies a device (I paid for in full), a cellular operator supplies the 4G voice/data (I pay for monthly), a cable company supplies access to the internet backbone to my home (I pay for monthly) and I supply the cable modem and routers that enable wired and wireless internet access in my home (I paid for in full). The Apple appstore is the same convenience its counterpart is on the Android side and forcing everyone (businesses and customers alike) to use Apple's billing system for non-Apple business is nothing more than paying a terrorist's ransom. The next step will be to force your carrier to take payments, and for you to pay for your subscription only, through Apple Pay...for "your benefit" I'm sure.

Apple wouldn't put up with me charging them for the data she uses to download Apple store items, paid Apple exclusives, stream a/v, Facetime, etc., using MY carrier subscription and other infrastructure I pay for? However, Apple is attempting to profit through the use of the infrastructure and non-Apple sourced services I pay for, or own outright, as she accesses services not owned in whole or part by Apple and not served or serviced by Apple beyond making a given services app available for download through the ONLY portal allowed and made available by Apple Inc. themselves.

In light of their abuse, I suggest a $0.02 charge to Apple per song or app, $0.05 per movie, streamed/downloaded from or through iTunes or the appstore (regardless of the file size) as being more than fair and reasonable. Especially, as I'm the person paying the bills for carrier services, managing and providing on-site support for the home infrastructure, as well as, the device and PC software when she has issues (and they are many). Where's my f-in cut of the action Apple!?!?

It's only theory, as she and most of her friends have had enough with the problems the Apple ecosystem has been causing them. She's finally not just seeing, but realizing, how much better my Android experience has been over the past six plus years compared to her Apple experiences over not quite the last two years. -:whistle:
 
Steve said:
The sad thing is, if you want to have access to Apple's App store, you have to play by their rules.
Click to expand...

Yeah because everyone loves the spyware, ransomware, virus, rootkit infested and personal information uploading apps that the Google Play store is full of. Rules are really bad. I can see why your sad.
 
Stimpy88 said:
Yeah because everyone loves the spyware, ransomware, virus, rootkit infested and personal information uploading apps that the Google Play store is full of. Rules are really bad. I can see why your sad.
Click to expand...
This is a joke right?
 
rat said:
So tell me, exactly what entitles Apple to the rent seeking behaviour of getting 30% OF ALL REVENUE simply because Spotify's free app is available in their app store? I thought you guys were supposed to be against exorbitant taxation... and believe me, this IS a tax.
Click to expand...

Apple retains 30% of all revenue generated through the "App" ecosystem. It has been like this for as long as I can remember, and I think (I THINK) that the music store is the same way. Spotify is allowing the convenience of customer paying WITHIN the app itself instead of going to Internet separately and paying the bill.

Like I said if some developer sells his App for $1, Apple gets %30. Every single time, Apple gets 30%. Why should Spotify get special treatment? Yes it's a free App but they offering "in app purchases". The article even says that Spotify was charging $13 a month if you did it inside the app (which is 30% more then the normal $10). But Spotify said that makes it uncompetitive to Apples $10 a month subscription, and so Spotify says that's unfair. Please continue to the next paragraph to understand why it's fine that Apple is taxing everyone.

amddragonpc said:
Wow, Apple acting like a Chicago gangster.
Click to expand...

If Chicago gangsters were the ones that cleared the land, laid the plumbing, paved the roads, and brought in the citizens in exchange for businesses paying taxes, then yes Apple is exactly like the Chicago gangsters. Just because a software developer creates an app, does not give him a right to income. There has to be a system for it to work in, a vehicle to deliver it, and a customer base to use it. The app developer did NONE of that. It's same the for movie and music creators, just because you make a great product does not guarantee you fame and success, there is more to the products success then the product itself.

You guys all love to bitch about how much money Apple charges. But Google is "worth more" then Apple. Do you ever wonder how a company that supposedly charges very little to nothing can be worth so much money and be the most valuable company on the planet? It's because they sell you out. What I find REFRESHING about Apple is that they just straight up say they want your money. You want to use our stuff? Give us your money. That's great! I give them money and the deal is done. Apple doesn't have to go behind my back and betray me. They are in it for money and I gave them the money. As a result of this, Apple is extremely protective of it's customer base because it works very hard to make sure YOU keep giving them money. It was easy for Apple to tell the FBI to go pound sand because their business model is not based on selling you, the customer, to the highest bidder.
 
Maybe if spotify offered something different or better to warrant the price difference? Deal with it like every one else. My company pays apple for the apps because it is worth it in the end. Apple users pay more in apps and microtransactions than android so the 30% loss is worth it for the massive increase in sales.
And ultimately, spotify set their prices not apple. Charge less if you want to be first picked.
 
westrock2000 said:
If I'm understanding this correctly, Spotify is arguing that it should be able to fully profit from the ecosystem and infrastructure that Apple has created, but they should not have to pay Apple any thing in exchange for that.

Ok.....Google and Microsoft are over there, they seem like a better fit for your desired business model.
Click to expand...
So Apple provides a device which the customer/telco pay for and a service, the app store, which I'm pretty sure Apple takes a cut if there is a charge for an app, and otherwise generally offers the service for free to help promote its devices. Spotify brings, the actual music service in terms of song offering and song selection algorithms off of its servers and over the internet through its ISP service and the ISP service paid by the consumer. The only key infrastructure here is the internet and Apple is contributing less than spotify and the consumer. The in-app purchases have to do with the Spotified provided service.

Apple Music/itunes not doing so good and someone is bitter.
 
Spotify won't say the details of why the app was rejected, so this leads me to believe they are trying to pull some shit here.
 
jpm100 said:
So Apple provides a device which the customer/telco pay for and a service, the app store, which I'm pretty sure Apple takes a cut if there is a charge for an app, and otherwise generally offers the service for free to help promote its devices. Spotify brings, the actual music service in terms of song offering and song selection algorithms off of its servers and over the internet through its ISP service and the ISP service paid by the consumer. The only key infrastructure here is the internet and Apple is contributing less than spotify and the consumer. The in-app purchases have to do with the Spotified provided service.

Apple Music/itunes not doing so good and someone is bitter.
Click to expand...

Almost looks like spotify is mad they got called out on trying to circumvent the agreed upon conditions to have an app in the app store. And now that they went to the media to whine about this, it is just going to make things harder for them. Now apple app reviewers will dig even deeper. Apps get rejected all the time, I feel each time we release ours it takes a few attempts. It can also be in error. You can appeal their decision if you feel it was in error.
 
jpm100 said:
So Apple provides a device which the customer/telco pay for and a service, the app store, which I'm pretty sure Apple takes a cut if there is a charge for an app, and otherwise generally offers the service for free to help promote its devices. Spotify brings, the actual music service in terms of song offering and song selection algorithms off of its servers and over the internet through its ISP service and the ISP service paid by the consumer. The only key infrastructure here is the internet and Apple is contributing less than spotify and the consumer. The in-app purchases have to do with the Spotified provided service.

Apple Music/itunes not doing so good and someone is bitter.
Click to expand...

I guess if you want to marginalize the entire success of an eco system and everything required to operate that. Look if Spotify was such a great service, they wouldn't need an app right? They could just make a website and everyone would flock to them because of their great service and stuff. But there is an inherent advantage in being on an Apple phone (or any phone). Apple in return for that great advantage asks that developers pay a "tax" on any transactions done through an app. As someone already pointed out, Netflix doesn't have to give any of it's profits to Apple because Netflix does not do any type of transaction within the app. It's a very simple policy and it has been in place for ever.

Ocellaris said:
Spotify won't say the details of why the app was rejected, so this leads me to believe they are trying to pull some shit here.
Click to expand...

The article (if accurate) claims the issue was that Spotify was telling it's customers within the app they could save money if they used the Spotify website instead of going through the app store. This was Apple's issue. Apple doesn't care if you have transactions outside of iOS (like Netflix does), but you either do the transaction in iOS or you do them completely external. But you don't use our system to get to your prospective customers and then try to circumvent our piece of the pie.


Look if Spotify can rally the customers and developers to get Apple to change it's business model, that is great. But what I see here is Spotify trying to get special treatment. This is a system that has been in place for almost 10 years now and a lot of people have had great success using it.
 
Stimpy88 said:
Ok, now go and find me some Android stuff like that.

I accept that you might be gone a while to compile your list, but at least you can do it on Samsungs dime.
Click to expand...

Your trolling is so insipid and tiring.

HURP DERP EVERYONE'S A SHILL IF THEY DON'T SUCK THE SAME ASS I DO.

If I wanted such bottom-level cookie cutter tripe, I'd just browse Reddit all day.
 
rat said:
Your trolling is so insipid and tiring.

HURP DERP EVERYONE'S A SHILL IF THEY DON'T SUCK THE SAME ASS I DO.

If I wanted such bottom-level cookie cutter tripe, I'd just browse Reddit all day.
Click to expand...

Your 1st article of evidence, 2nd sentence in, dated Sept 2015 (less then 1 year ago for a service available for 8 years now).

Until now, the App Store has been to the malware scene what the planet Earth was to Douglas Adams’s Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy : Mostly harmless.
Click to expand...

Just pick better attacks, that's all.
 
Your argument is the opposite of mine, yet you call me a troll? There is one other difference that is plain to see, you are ignorant and abusive when challenged.

Try using Google, or whatever search engine you want, and prove that iOS has more, or the same amount of spyware, viruses, rootkits etc, as Android, if you can prove me wrong, I will post a picture of me eating my hat, until then, have fun.
 
westrock2000 said:
Apple retains 30% of all revenue generated through the "App" ecosystem. It has been like this for as long as I can remember, and I think (I THINK) that the music store is the same way. Spotify is allowing the convenience of customer paying WITHIN the app itself instead of going to Internet separately and paying the bill.

Like I said if some developer sells his App for $1, Apple gets %30. Every single time, Apple gets 30%. Why should Spotify get special treatment? Yes it's a free App but they offering "in app purchases". The article even says that Spotify was charging $13 a month if you did it inside the app (which is 30% more then the normal $10). But Spotify said that makes it uncompetitive to Apples $10 a month subscription, and so Spotify says that's unfair. Please continue to the next paragraph to understand why it's fine that Apple is taxing everyone.



If Chicago gangsters were the ones that cleared the land, laid the plumbing, paved the roads, and brought in the citizens in exchange for businesses paying taxes, then yes Apple is exactly like the Chicago gangsters. Just because a software developer creates an app, does not give him a right to income. There has to be a system for it to work in, a vehicle to deliver it, and a customer base to use it. The app developer did NONE of that. It's same the for movie and music creators, just because you make a great product does not guarantee you fame and success, there is more to the products success then the product itself.

You guys all love to bitch about how much money Apple charges. But Google is "worth more" then Apple. Do you ever wonder how a company that supposedly charges very little to nothing can be worth so much money and be the most valuable company on the planet? It's because they sell you out. What I find REFRESHING about Apple is that they just straight up say they want your money. You want to use our stuff? Give us your money. That's great! I give them money and the deal is done. Apple doesn't have to go behind my back and betray me. They are in it for money and I gave them the money. As a result of this, Apple is extremely protective of it's customer base because it works very hard to make sure YOU keep giving them money. It was easy for Apple to tell the FBI to go pound sand because their business model is not based on selling you, the customer, to the highest bidder.
Click to expand...

For the m-fing win.

Most on here blindly hate on Apple while they give all their deepest secrets to google to then monetize and sell you out. As said apple gets their revenue from ME and in return has always protect my privacy in return. but but but overpriced blah blah... biggest load of crap in the nerdiverse.

You know what sucks too? The fact that Microsoft is also all in with selling my shit, but I have to use windows 10 because of gaming.
 
XvMMvX said:
For the m-fing win.

Most on here blindly hate on Apple while they give all their deepest secrets to google to then monetize and sell you out. As said apple gets their revenue from ME and in return has always protect my privacy in return. but but but overpriced blah blah... biggest load of crap in the nerdiverse.

You know what sucks too? The fact that Microsoft is also all in with selling my shit, but I have to use windows 10 because of gaming.
Click to expand...

If Microsoft is selling your stuff so is Apple.
 
westrock2000 said:
Apple retains 30% of all revenue generated through the "App" ecosystem. It has been like this for as long as I can remember, and I think (I THINK) that the music store is the same way. Spotify is allowing the convenience of customer paying WITHIN the app itself instead of going to Internet separately and paying the bill.

Like I said if some developer sells his App for $1, Apple gets %30. Every single time, Apple gets 30%. Why should Spotify get special treatment? Yes it's a free App but they offering "in app purchases". The article even says that Spotify was charging $13 a month if you did it inside the app (which is 30% more then the normal $10). But Spotify said that makes it uncompetitive to Apples $10 a month subscription, and so Spotify says that's unfair. Please continue to the next paragraph to understand why it's fine that Apple is taxing everyone.



If Chicago gangsters were the ones that cleared the land, laid the plumbing, paved the roads, and brought in the citizens in exchange for businesses paying taxes, then yes Apple is exactly like the Chicago gangsters. Just because a software developer creates an app, does not give him a right to income. There has to be a system for it to work in, a vehicle to deliver it, and a customer base to use it. The app developer did NONE of that. It's same the for movie and music creators, just because you make a great product does not guarantee you fame and success, there is more to the products success then the product itself.

You guys all love to bitch about how much money Apple charges. But Google is "worth more" then Apple. Do you ever wonder how a company that supposedly charges very little to nothing can be worth so much money and be the most valuable company on the planet? It's because they sell you out. What I find REFRESHING about Apple is that they just straight up say they want your money. You want to use our stuff? Give us your money. That's great! I give them money and the deal is done. Apple doesn't have to go behind my back and betray me. They are in it for money and I gave them the money. As a result of this, Apple is extremely protective of it's customer base because it works very hard to make sure YOU keep giving them money. It was easy for Apple to tell the FBI to go pound sand because their business model is not based on selling you, the customer, to the highest bidder.
Click to expand...


Chicago gangsters didn't clear the land, etc. so your argument just died. Have a good day.
 
Stimpy88 said:
Ok, now go and find me some Android stuff like that.

I accept that you might be gone a while to compile your list, but at least you can do it on Samsungs dime.
Click to expand...


be gone since the list will be massively long?
 
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