Speculation: self built vs off the shelf

K

Kuo

Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2001
Messages
641
Many many many many years ago, it was 99% guaranteed that building your own machine would be cheaper and better.

In today's day and age, I'm starting to wonder.. and so here's a quick little speculation that I'm throwing together in 10 mins.....

Picking at semi-random a Gateway AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 3800+ Computer w/ 17" LCD Flat-Panel Monitor & Canon All-in_one Printer with... Win XP Media Center, 2gig DDR Ram, 250 GB HD, DL DVDRW Drive, GF 6100, 9 in 1 media reader for 880 (on sale this week).

Now since this is just a speculation, I won't actually look up the exact prices of things, but just guesstimate:

AMD X2 3800+ -- 150
RAM - 2 gigs ~200 bucks, although I guess generic names can be 160 or so
HD - no idea if it's IDE or SATA, but either way a 250 GB drive can be had for 70-80 these days when it's on sale
DL DVDRW - 50 (random guess)
Mobo + GF 6100 -- Just cause I'm going to guess that these companies like to save money, I'm going to guess they went w/ on-board video for this, so I'm guessing $90 for both combined.
Case - 40
PSU - 50 (I would get a 100 one probably, but I don't expect them to put a very nice PSU in).
17" LCD - 150
Keyboard/mouse/speakers - 30
Canon All-In-One Printer - 100

Total: $930

So my speculation then is... in today's day and age, the advantage of building your own computer is for personal enjoyment, the ability to customize specific parts, to tweak things, to get better quality parts (eg mobo)...

but the old concept of saving money by building your own system doesn't really apply anymore.

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Now to step back a sec, part of the reason I'm saying all this is because a custom built system of similar specs w/o all the misc items could easily cost the same price as the Gateway.

X2 3800 - 150
Mobo - 100-150
RAM - 200
Case - 50
PSU - 100
Vid card - 150-200
HD - 80

Total: 830-880

Throw in the DVD burner, monitor, accesories, and that's another 300 bucks.

So in a way, would my system, which on the surface reads as having the same specs as the Gateway EXCEPT for the better video card (for 150 I wnot be using a 6100) be $300 better? I'll say minus 100 cause it is a better vid card, so would it be $200 better?

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[edit] Actually after reading what I just posted, I realized the question I asked isn't really the question I was intially trying to ask...

I meant for the question to be more broad and general. Is there merit to buying a pre-built system these days? Or is there not? Basically I need to convince my dad (yeah, I know it's sad) that the 800-1000 bucks I want to spend on a new system is justified. Part of his argument will be to point at a Gateway in the local BB ad and say, "Look here, you're getting the same thing for less, only you get a monitor and printer and keyboard!" And he's not a very technological person, and I'm not that much of a tech whiz, more of a hobbyist, so I can't really point at the SiSandra Benchmarks and say, "Well, the Gateawy probably uses some generic motherboard while mien is this nice one here that performs at a 23.4 (picked an arbritrary number) and I'm paying 80 bucks more for this because of that 23.4."
 
You're throwing around a lot of guesstimates.

Pick a price point. Build the best PC you can from components for that exact price point, then go and try to find a similar machine from a big name. Unless you're looking at ultra low end, you will almost always get a better deal from building yourself. If you need a monitor or printer or something, it might end up being better to get a bundle package from a name brand.

In most cases, building yourself is still a superior solution, especially when you get into high-end machines. It's all but impossible to get a reasonably priced high-power machine made from quality components from a major name brand.
 
If you were able to configure a pre-built machine with the exact parts you choose based on personal preference/product knowledge then it would probably cost you more than a build your own. I know that a company like Alienware would charge something like 2.5k for a rig with my specs and I know that I only paid a little over 1k (not including monitor) thanks to carefully piecing it together over a few months and jumping on few great deals.
 
i am finding the same thing too.. but i am looking at ultra cheap.. for example. you can get a dell e310 for about $250 on the dell outlet with a bit of seraching.. you basically can get a p4 2.8ghz, 512mb ram, dvd burner, 80gb hdd, i think even a mouse and keyboard.. you can't beat that price.. teh warranty is only 90 days though.. but its one of those things,

the advantages to building our own that i see.... overclocking.. that's a major one.. upgradeability.. its usually hard to upgrade a prebuilt.. not having extra crap that is lower quality than yu want.. for example.. they come with a cheap keyoard and mouse usually.. i prefer nicer ones.. 80gb hdd. . what the hell am i going to do with a 80gb hdd, seriously? and usually an uglier case,, (thats an opinion though),, i actually like that dell e310 case, but.. i can't really put alot of hard drives in it.. which is the exact thing i need another cmputer for.. i have a shuttle.. and can't fit in the hard drives i want..
 
Kuo said:
AMD X2 3800+ -- 140
RAM - 2 gigs 150
HD - 70
DL DVDRW - 30
Mobo + GF 6100 - $40.
Case + PSU - 50
17" LCD - 150
Keyboard/mouse/speakers - 20
Canon All-In-One Printer - 100
MCE OEM - 100

Total: $850
Click to expand...
Fixed the prices for you. Most oem stuff is very, very low cost/quality. While newegg is cheap, they do still have to make a margin and their volume isn't anything like a tier 1 oem.

 
IanG said:
Fixed the prices for you. Most oem stuff is very, very low cost/quality. While newegg is cheap, they do still have to make a margin and their volume isn't anything like a tier 1 oem.

Click to expand...

Heh wait, I'm a little confused now.

What do the fixed prices reflect? The price of a tier1 OEM buying the parts? I always thought they paid even less than that, heh.
 
IanG said:
Fixed the prices for you. Most oem stuff is very, very low cost/quality. While newegg is cheap, they do still have to make a margin and their volume isn't anything like a tier 1 oem.

Click to expand...
Some of those prices seem a little too high...keep in mind that a company like Dell purchases staggeringly huge quantities of every component. A contract with Dell could keep a component vendor running even if they didn't market outside of oems.
 
Actually, it's always been fairly general knowledge that a DIY machine is only comparitavely cost effective if the machine is in the $1500+ range.

The thing is that major boutiques and OEMs can get components and software for significantly less than a consumer can, but above that will often times sell their machines at below cost (mostly with discounts or rebates), particularly for the high-volume moving machines in the sub-$1000 range, or sometimes just as clearance.

Actually one of the best hardware deals you can find right now is the Velocity Micro Campus Edition. Priced out individually the machine is worth well over $200 above what they are asking and it's a great machine.
 
Stellar said:
Actually, it's always been fairly general knowledge that a DIY machine is only comparitavely cost effective if the machine is in the $1500+ range.
Click to expand...
Total BS.

From building a handful of machines recently, I've consistently gotten significantly better bang for the buck in the $600+ range.
 
In my experience of building machines there are a few things you have to ask

If you care about little things like which chipset you have, then building is for you. I tried to get it out of dell which audio chip their Inspiron 6400 uses, and they couldnt tell me. If really dont care which parts you have, and reliability is completely unimportant, then an off the shelf is for you. That being said, an off the shelf computer may be cheaper for the "same" parts, but they likely use special OEM only low end parts, or just use out-right crap components! Also if you want to deviate from the norm, off the shelf computers are definately not for you, for instance a linux user or someone who is reusing older parts.
 
kumquat said:
Total BS.

From building a handful of machines recently, I've consistently gotten significantly better bang for the buck in the $600+ range.
Click to expand...

You're going to have to a be a tad bit more speficic before you call "Total BS" on my post, big guy.

In fact I'll go out on a limb and say I can trump ANY retail DIY system (including an OEM copy of the relative version of Windows XP) you can present for < $800 with a boutique or OEM system.

People have a naggingly persistent habit of conventiently leaving the cost of XP (and other included software) out of their DIY builds when compareing them to pre-built systems.
 
But the included copy of windows doesnt come with a Microsoft CD to do a clean install, and often includes so much junk that its not really useable.

Included copies of Windows XP dont count in my book unless i am getting a holographic, pressed by Microsoft CD.
 
Maybe I will come up with some current prices if I'm bored tomorrow (which I don't anticipate because it's my first Monday back at work after vacation and I have to work on my motorcycle for a bit), but my last build was $675 for an X2 3800+ system w/1GB of RAM and a 250GB hard drive and a dual-layer DVD burner, Windows XP Professional included. This was a couple of months before the big price drops, and a similar system from Dell, HP, or Gateway was pricing out around $800-$900 at the time.
 
Agreed with OP
I bought my dad one of the Dell B110 Celery deals - 2.4ghz celery, 256MB RAM, dvd-rom, mouse/keyboard & 19" LCD for $340. Can't get much cheaper than that. I'll toss some spare pc2700 in the box soon.

Pre-built boxes are now cheaper on the low end (especially Dell, you can get a cheap LCD with 'em) and sometimes on the medium range.

The only real advantage to your own box is quality components (mainly better motherboard and PSU). If Windows wasn't so expensive for a legal version it'd be a slightly different story.
 
The bottom line is that it can go either way, depending on the specific things you want and the exact price point you're after.

Shop around, then decide.
 
Doubt you can beat off the shelf in money however that doesn't mean price/performance can't be beaten. But that is for pure office work where you don't need anything. If your needs are higher than that you can usualy beat off the shelf computers.

Not that it matters. Building your own has a value in itself :)
 
John64 said:
But the included copy of windows doesnt come with a Microsoft CD to do a clean install, and often includes so much junk that its not really useable.

Included copies of Windows XP dont count in my book unless i am getting a holographic, pressed by Microsoft CD.
Click to expand...

That's really an incorrect generalization. Do you not read the [H] Consumer reviews here?

In any case, you are receiving the operating system, and you cannot exclude that from from your DIY build on a technicality. You will still have to pay to get that OS on your DIY machine.
 
But you still have to pay for it on an off the shelf system because, at least I, cannot use their included OS.

Also, everyone is forgetting that you dont *HAVE* to use Windows. Linux is a very mature OS, and if any of you have tried Ubuntu Linux 6.06, you will see what i mean.

I use both windows and ubuntu, and i find Ubuntu a LOT more productive than windows.

With an off the shelf system you are forced to buy windows, where if you build yourself, you get the option to install it.
 
John64 said:
With an off the shelf system you are forced to buy windows, where if you build yourself, you get the option to install it.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, a few places let you get naked systems now, check out the Dell Dimension N series for starters. It's only $10 cheaper than the same model installed with WinXP, but that should tell you more about the kind of discounts that MS offers the bigger OEMs.
 
John64 said:
But you still have to pay for it on an off the shelf system because, at least I, cannot use their included OS.

Also, everyone is forgetting that you dont *HAVE* to use Windows. Linux is a very mature OS, and if any of you have tried Ubuntu Linux 6.06, you will see what i mean.

I use both windows and ubuntu, and i find Ubuntu a LOT more productive than windows.

With an off the shelf system you are forced to buy windows, where if you build yourself, you get the option to install it.
Click to expand...

We're talking price discrepencies between similar machines here, not advantages/disadvantages.

..and I would have to wholeheartedly disagree that Ubuntu is a "very mature" OS, I am also dual booting it on my Dell 600M notebook and I cannot use it with my notebook in the docking station, the wireless card has a known IRQ issue, and it will not hibernate. None of these things are issues in XP Pro. That's one example. Another would be that Ubuntu will simply not install period on my desktop machine, which is built around an ATI Crossfire chipset (A8R-MVP).

But that is completely off topic.
 
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