Speculation (nVidia and ATi)

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[BB] Rick James

[H]ard Dawg
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Apr 4, 2004
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I realize that no really can tell what the next GPU for nVidia will bring. But what do you guys think nVidia will bring to the table. I feel like we’ve reach a point in graphics where 512 meg’s of ram is becoming more and more mainstream. Granted, no where near as mainstream as 256, but it’s getting close. I’d like to see SM3.0 improvements on nVidia’s half. I’d like to see HDR AA on nVidia’s half.

nVidia in it’s 7800 series I felt really hit the nail on the head. I really hope they build on what they’ve got and just come out with a no brainer for the gamer in terms of a buying choice. I also hope however ATi pulls their stuff together and does the same this round. In my eyes ATi is a few steps behind, but that can definitely be made up.

What do you guys think the next set of GPU’s will bring to the table?
 
too many factors...
ati seems to have its hands full at the momemnt.
i am thinking that theyy are trying to make M$ happy and are working OT on the xbox 360.
as a result, they are lagging in every other category
 
Here is my list which can apply to either ATI or NVIDIA:

HDR + AA with fast performance

Unified Shader Architecture with SM 4.0/DX10 support

Angle Independent AF as the default setting with fast performance, heck if the perf is there maybe even make a hardcoded enabled in hardware at all times 16X AF so that no matter what you will get 16X AF in every game, then you just have to adjust resolution and AA accordingly, we should be at the point where AF is just enabled at all times in every game, that should be a given now IMO

Some kind if isotropic antialiasing technique to reduce shader aliasing and maybe even moire as much as possible, better filtering all around so there is no noticeable texture aliasing or crawling

Introduce plenty of AA options, 2X, 4X, 6X, 8X AA, MS and TR MS and TR SS of course, no blur quincunx stuff either, straight up antialiasing

eDRAM (I know, I'm Dreaming)

Oodles more mem bandwidth, upwards of 60GB/sec (Let's aim for 100GB/sec!)

Oodles more shader powa and fillrate, upwards of 20 Gtexels and pixels/sec :D
 
i can see unified shader arch soon within the next gen or so,

memory bandwith though are we thinking a step to 512bit bus or just way faster memory, or *gasp* both ?

im not sure there is enough performance to hardcore AF into games i know plenty of people who cant scrap together enough to get a 9800pro let alone something better. even with an x850xtpe I have to turn down AF in many games to keep my fps playable (to me anything below 60 almost hurts my eyes not sure if its from tearing or whatever I just really see the frames :/ )
 
timske said:
im not sure there is enough performance to hardcore AF into games i know plenty of people who cant scrap together enough to get a 9800pro let alone something better. even with an x850xtpe I have to turn down AF in many games to keep my fps playable (to me anything below 60 almost hurts my eyes not sure if its from tearing or whatever I just really see the frames :/ )
Click to expand...

i meant hardcode it into the next gen video cards, not the game, but now that you mention it it is still better if the game controls AF since game content developers know what texture levels need AF in their games, so I'll change my proposition to state that I'd like to see more games automatically enable AF at 8X or 16X by default with next gen video cards, we are at a point where IMO AF should be a given with every game we play

i doubt we will see more than a 256-bit external mem bus for the next couple of years, I like ATI's internal 512-bit ring bus technology personally, it sounds great on paper, but we really haven't seen it show any major benefit in games yet, except for maybe the perf increase they got in Quake 4, I think more efficient mem controllers like this are the future, that and faster RAM like GDDR4, I wouldn't be surprised if we started hearing about 2GHz memory speeds with next gen hardware, the X1800 XT is already at 1.5 GHz with GDDR3
 
Brent_Justice said:
What improvements do you want to see?
Click to expand...

Well right now if you enable HDR with the nVidia series of cards, you disable AA by default; meaning you can't turn HDR at the same time as AA. With ATi cards
(maybe Brent can back me up) I've heard read that you can have both, but at a HUGE performance loss.

Brent brings up a lot of great features I'd like to see in the next gen of cards. Basically to put it as simple as possible, I'd like to see NO jaggies at all... Ever! And no, no one ever never has no jaggies, no matter what the resoution and AA setting.

AF should be a setting automatically set up, there shouldn't even be an option for it. I agree with Brent, it should just be implemented.

Gaming is getting there, where images are cleaner and crisper then ever before. But, there still is much room for improvment. I'd like to see a card that absoluty kills 2 X 7800 GTX's running SLI. That is my dream. Will that happen next around, that is definately yet to be seen.
 
[BB] Rick James said:
...I'd like to see NO jaggies at all... Ever! And no, no one ever never has no jaggies, no matter what the resoution and AA setting.
Click to expand...

I'm with you bro.

And it must be possible. Consider Shrek the movie on standard TV resolutions. I want THAT...um...with guns and tanks and things.
 
I think they both need to improve image quality, many of the chicks I view on pr0n sites still look nasty. ;)

So far the top end cards are outpacing the games, so I would like to see games take better advantage of the hardware and show us something that's awe inspiring.

I think Brent covered the major advances that we are due to see in the next year or so.

Hopefully the high end price has hit a ceiling :eek:

'06 looks to be an interesting year for video cards (G80\R600?)

Also, (although totally impractical) I want to see retail available quad SLI boards and cards ;)
 
PRIME1 said:
Hopefully the high end price has hit a ceiling :eek:
Click to expand...
For me this is the biggest factor. I will never ever shell out more than £200 (i'm in the UK) for a GPU; and probably only once every 12-18 months. This means I will always be almost a generation behind or buying second hand cards.

All by my choice but there is no way I could ever justify it no matter how much I want it.
 
Honestly, AF should not currently be a 'forced' thing I know most everyone that visists hardcop here are at the very least somewhat on the same page of computer gaming. Unfortuantely MOST people are not, and devs have to work with what MOST are. they have to plan a game to work, at a decent level, thier game on 2-3 generation old hardware. They have to do this to maintain sales.

Im not taking anyones side here cause it honestly sucks for devs who know that there is better hardware out there and it sucks for the enthusiasts whom have it.


that said I agree with Brent in the fact that ATI is probly on the right track its not so much increasing the numbers, just being more efficient at it, like with the memory controller on the x1800. for along time software was way ahead of the hardware and now it almost seems as if the tables are turned.

With the push for the multi threading cpu's, in both pc's and next gen consols, and a (hopefully) push to fully unified shaders. there could be some big improvements in graphics soon. If we couple that with a mainstream physics core addition, either in add in for pc or on a seperate core in the next gen consoles, we just further add to what we have come to expect.
 
I also want to add that I think, while not directly graphics related, Physics is the future.

I want to see better use of dual core CPU's in games for physics and API. I want to to see more powerful vertex and geometry power out of video cards and I want to see that being used towards physics in the game.
 
Megalomaniac said:
too many factors...
ati seems to have its hands full at the momemnt.
i am thinking that theyy are trying to make M$ happy and are working OT on the xbox 360.
as a result, they are lagging in every other category
Click to expand...

Huh? I thought the GPU's already done, they even gave the manufacturing rights to microsoft and microsoft themselves are handling the production. What would ATI be working overtime for?
 
Brent_Justice said:
I also want to add that I think, while not directly graphics related, Physics is the future.

I want to see better use of dual core CPU's in games for physics and API. I want to to see more powerful vertex and geometry power out of video cards and I want to see that being used towards physics in the game.
Click to expand...
I want to see more fun games, not better graphics... maybe better physics... but cmon' people, the graphics are astounding right now... I don't want more Doom 3 games... I want something FUN with descent graphics.
 
Borgschulze said:
I want to see more fun games, not better graphics... maybe better physics... but cmon' people, the graphics are astounding right now... I don't want more Doom 3 games... I want something FUN with descent graphics.
Click to expand...

That would be a topic for the game forum then ;)

This one is all about the rendering of the video card ;)
 
Brent_Justice said:
Here is my list which can apply to either ATI or NVIDIA:

HDR + AA with fast performance

Unified Shader Architecture with SM 4.0/DX10 support

Angle Independent AF as the default setting with fast performance, heck if the perf is there maybe even make a hardcoded enabled in hardware at all times 16X AF so that no matter what you will get 16X AF in every game, then you just have to adjust resolution and AA accordingly, we should be at the point where AF is just enabled at all times in every game, that should be a given now IMO

Some kind if isotropic antialiasing technique to reduce shader aliasing and maybe even moire as much as possible, better filtering all around so there is no noticeable texture aliasing or crawling

Introduce plenty of AA options, 2X, 4X, 6X, 8X AA, MS and TR MS and TR SS of course, no blur quincunx stuff either, straight up antialiasing

eDRAM (I know, I'm Dreaming)

Oodles more mem bandwidth, upwards of 60GB/sec (Let's aim for 100GB/sec!)

Oodles more shader powa and fillrate, upwards of 20 Gtexels and pixels/sec :D
Click to expand...

If we get half of that with next-gen card I will be overwhelmed with happiness

BTW can you comment on Geometry Shaders?
 
For the most part I absolutely agree with Brent. Implenting 16x AF would be nice.

I believe efficiency will be numero uno in years to come. Ramp up speeds all you want but efficiency is where its at....of course unless you combine the two ;)
 
slighty different from the video card...slighty....

crossfire working on sli boards and sli working on crossfire boards.
 
Netrat33 said:
slighty different from the video card...slighty....

crossfire working on sli boards and sli working on crossfire boards.
Click to expand...
Or Intel's chipset that supposely works with both Crossfire and SLI would be nice.
 
If the GTX 7800 cooler design is the future, I think nVidia should work on a new one. That thing is just way too big.
 
dR.Jester said:
If the GTX 7800 cooler design is the future, I think nVidia should work on a new one. That thing is just way too big.
Click to expand...
How about they work on the price first! Those things are way over priced. I was irriated with the $600 mark of the 7800gtx and x1800xt. They should be making faster cards for the same price or cheaper. NOT faster cards by just increasing the price too make them.
 
I want to see a dual core chip, not two seperate cores but dual core like amd64 2x machines, so one can handle AF AA and what not and the other can handle normal activities. So the cost wont be too much more and you get tons of performance.
 
Inu said:
I want to see a dual core chip, not two seperate cores but dual core like amd64 2x machines, so one can handle AF AA and what not and the other can handle normal activities. So the cost wont be too much more and you get tons of performance.
Click to expand...

GPU's are already multiple 'cores'
 
O RLY? I didnt know that, dont want to go off topic can you explain a little?
 
Netrat33 said:
slighty different from the video card...slighty....

crossfire working on sli boards and sli working on crossfire boards.
Click to expand...

They are both supposed to work on the upcoming Intel 975X chipset. I'm actually really looking forward to this chipset, hopefully Intel has better dual core CPU's out soon.
 
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