I realize that many SP2 components are available seperately, but are they all? There are enough aspects of SP2 that I do not want, that I will not install the whole works. On the other hand, there may be some new aspects that might interest me, aside from past fixes, etc. Are the new components broken down for download somewhere on Microsoft's site that I am not finding?
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SP2...Can I pick through all of the changes?
- Thread starter mosin
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UMCPWintermute
Limp Gawd
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Unfortunately for you, it is not possible to get the various features of SP2 without installing SP2. Why don't you want to install it?
If you don't want the firewall, you can turn that off.
If you don't want the firewall, you can turn that off.
I don't want the complete install because of the 200megs of bloat it would add to my machine with the additional possibility of hosing a perfect runing rig, combined with WMP9...just another thing I don't want. Actually, I'm not certain that I need, or want, anything that SP2 has to offer. That's why I would like to see it all broken down.
I was hesitant about installing SP2 myself. I finally bit the bullet and did it. I'm glad I did, my system actually seems to be running faster. I've actually seen my D/L speed go above 1MB/s in spikes, and I've never seen that before. (I've got the SBC 6000/608 package, and normally the fastest spike I've gotten was about 700KB/s.)
You can always uninstall it through Add/Remove Programs or by using System Restore. I haven't found anything that hasn't worked with it.
Be aware when if you do install it, you'll have to go in and unistall Messenger assuming you (like me) are not using it now.
Set aside a few hours to install it, defrag, check all you app to make sure they work, and search for updates if they don't.
I wouldn't do it (and haven't) on my other system, which is an A64 system.
You can always uninstall it through Add/Remove Programs or by using System Restore. I haven't found anything that hasn't worked with it.
Be aware when if you do install it, you'll have to go in and unistall Messenger assuming you (like me) are not using it now.
Set aside a few hours to install it, defrag, check all you app to make sure they work, and search for updates if they don't.
I wouldn't do it (and haven't) on my other system, which is an A64 system.
OK. You guys have talked me into it. The rig is perfect, so I suppose I need to spend another couple of weeks trimming it down to a lean, mean machine again, right? If you don't hear from me again, that means I'm pissed. 
....here goes nothing.....
....here goes nothing.....
cuemasterfl
Supreme [H]ardness
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Just do it!
I had no hesitation installing SP2, and my system is running so nice and smootly now, I love it. Every game and app I have still works fine.
I had no hesitation installing SP2, and my system is running so nice and smootly now, I love it. Every game and app I have still works fine.
So far it works. Thank God for Extreme DSL!
It took 3 min. to prepare, 7 min. to download (99.30mb), 2 min. to verify, and 16 min. to install.
DiamondCS' Reg Prot went nuts! It had to work for a change.
CCleaner, a quick little cleanup program, found a bunch of left over junk to delete. It also found some associations that were no longer applicable.
I haven't run jv16 PowerTools, yet. We'll see what it finds.
Network speeds are exactly the same, but my rig was tweaked pretty good before.
WMP9 is now on my rig. ...It took hours to get rid of WMP last time, but I can do it again.
I hate that damned little security icon next to the clock. How do you get rid of it?
Was it worth it in my particular case? It probably wasn't, but only time will tell.
Anyway, the machine lives on.
...I'm off to defragment and tweak.
Edit:
It killed my X-Setup tweaks, but they went back easily.
The Security Center doesn't see Nod32. It's a totally worthless feature, in my opinion.
It took 3 min. to prepare, 7 min. to download (99.30mb), 2 min. to verify, and 16 min. to install.
DiamondCS' Reg Prot went nuts! It had to work for a change.
CCleaner, a quick little cleanup program, found a bunch of left over junk to delete. It also found some associations that were no longer applicable.
I haven't run jv16 PowerTools, yet. We'll see what it finds.
Network speeds are exactly the same, but my rig was tweaked pretty good before.
WMP9 is now on my rig.
...It took hours to get rid of WMP last time, but I can do it again.I hate that damned little security icon next to the clock. How do you get rid of it?
Was it worth it in my particular case? It probably wasn't, but only time will tell.
Anyway, the machine lives on.
...I'm off to defragment and tweak.
Edit:
It killed my X-Setup tweaks, but they went back easily.
The Security Center doesn't see Nod32. It's a totally worthless feature, in my opinion.
t. shuffle
Limp Gawd
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mosin said:
Go into Security Center, go to Change the way Security Center alerts me, and uncheck everything.
SJConsultant
2[H]4U
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stevewm said:
Even though SP2 replaces files, SP2 does force an archive in case of uninstallation which adds to the disk cost.
However, at the most after deleting the archived files, I have noticed an decrease of about 100MB after a clean SP2 installation.
YellowPeril
Gawd
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the 64 bit cpus that are out now still run 32 bit, so you should be able to...Nightrain said:I can't install cause I have a 64 bit cpu.
Instructions for removing Security Center alerts. It doesn't see my NAV 2003 either, but the firewall is so useful (and more like ZA than originally thought) that I left it on, both on my machine and client machines.mosin said:
Well, I got rid of the damned little icon, and that makes me feel better. I'll stick with ZA Pro,at least for now. I was pleased to see that it didn't kill any codecs, or other stuff that I had added. Maybe it isn't so bad. I do like to run lean, however, so I'll spend a great deal of time paring it down to its most austere form that still works.GreNME said:
Did I need SP2? No.
Is it for everyone? No.
Do most of the people who bring me their machines need it? Yes.
UMCPWintermute
Limp Gawd
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Yes, you do need it. Maybe not this instant, but within the next few months, and especially in the coming year, you will need it.mosin said:
True, it's not for people who don't run XP. Anyone who runs XP should use SP2. There's no reason to refuse a comprehensive security update, and you can disable the features (such as the firewall and security center) that you don't want. However, there are a huge amount of improvements (such as the upgraded installer, the improvements to BITS, etc.) that will cause a lot of people less trouble.
Not to mention that the firewall on by default will protect - assuming they install SP2 - countless numbers of clueless users.
Explain to me why I need it? I have excellent third party security protection, I don't use WMP, IE, OE or Messenger. In fact, I plan to rid my rig of them completely. My network isn't any faster, either. It seems to me that those are the highlights of the service pack. Mainly, I'm interested in the machine being secure, and it was already. What's going to happen next year that you know, and I don't? Is something expected to happen that only Microsoft can prevent? Sorry, although I see an importance for the casual user, I cannot see one for those users who are up on security, and don't need the bonus features. In my case, SP2 was not a needed update...and if it gives the slightest hiccup, it will be removed.
You mentioned "a lot of people." That doesn't apply to everyone, and I'm not one of them. My machine has been running, and often doing intensive work, for over 1 1/2 years without an issue that would compromise the install. I really don't think it is necessary in my case.
I am [Hard] ...one of the few.
You mentioned "a lot of people." That doesn't apply to everyone, and I'm not one of them. My machine has been running, and often doing intensive work, for over 1 1/2 years without an issue that would compromise the install. I really don't think it is necessary in my case.
I am [Hard] ...one of the few.
You aren't under the mistaken impression that a firewall and A/V checking are the only thing SP2 has added security-wise, are you? You do realize that a whole plethora of GP options have been added, as well as some tighter handling of APIs, right? That might not mean a whole lot to someone who doesn't admin a group of machines or doesn't do any development, but it's a helluva lot more than just some simple firewall and A/V crap. There are plenty of sources to get a lot more in-depth information about the actual changes on Microsoft's developer site and their regular company site.mosin said:Well, I got rid of the damned little icon, and that makes me feel better. I'll stick with ZA Pro,at least for now. I was pleased to see that it didn't kill any codecs, or other stuff that I had added. Maybe it isn't so bad. I do like to run lean, however, so I'll spend a great deal of time paring it down to its most austere form that still works.
Did I need SP2? No.
Is it for everyone? No.
Do most of the people who bring me their machines need it? Yes.
As for 'bloat' in the SP, you are mistaken. The only thing that has increased the space taken up by Windows is the backup made before installing. You are imagining 'bloat' that isn't there. A slipstreamed install of SP2 is less than 100 MB (~80 MB tops) larger than an SP1 slipstreamed install, and in case you don't remember, SP1 took up more space than that (~120 MB).
Are you an expert too, just like everyone else who posts so self-assuredly? We'll remember that next time you have a problem and are asking for help fixing it. After all, you're [Hard], so you must be so good you don't need our help.I am [Hard] ...one of the few.
I do appreciate your comments. I am not an expert, like some of you guys. I simply based my remarks on my personal experience, as I do not maintain a large network, nor do I write code or otherwise participate in software development. I would be remiss if I didn't mention, however...GreNME said:
...that I have never been so upside down with a problem that it required asking help to fix it from anyone on this forum, and never will. Am I [Hard]? You bet. I have somehow been able to keep at least one rig going at all times, and have been able to do it since my first computer back in 1984. Do I wonder about things inside my OS? You bet. I would hope everyone around here does.
I'm no genius, but I'm no idiot, either.
Thanks for remembering me, though.
UMCPWintermute
Limp Gawd
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Changes to Functionality in XP Service Pack 2
Now, I understand that you might not care about all of these, but just blindly stating "I run a firewall, AV software, and don't use IE, so I don't need SP2" is not a valid excuse to keep from installing it.
- Updated access control checks on COM objects
- Winsock "self healing" to prevent corruption
- Updates to the Remote Procedure Call service
- Updated APIs for dealing with file attachments
- Automatic Updates support for applications and hardware drivers
- BITS version 2.0 which supports resumable downloads, scheduled downloads, diff-checking files, bandwidth limiting
- Resultant Set of Policy for Group Policy Objects
- Windows Installer 3.0
- MDAC 2.81
Now, I understand that you might not care about all of these, but just blindly stating "I run a firewall, AV software, and don't use IE, so I don't need SP2" is not a valid excuse to keep from installing it.
UMCPWintermute
Limp Gawd
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Glow said:
Yes, it's available through Automatic Updates or the WindowsUpdate website.
UMCPWintermute said:
Actually, those things you mention only skim the surface of what is needed for a secure machine these days. I'm in agreement with you 100%. My rig exceeds these basics, I assure you. I do like some of the new items that SP2 has to offer, but I strongly question downloading an entensive service pack to get those I like. My rig works fine with SP2, so don't get me wrong. It's just that some people make the upgrade seem far more important than I feel is necessary. It's good, but it isn't the service pack to end all service packs.
EDIT: The saga ends. My rig fine all day with SP2 installed. Then, after running perfectly since Phoenix 5.0, Firefox locked up. I had to push the reset button. Needless to say, SP2 is no longer on my machine. It won't be missed.
Firefox had a problem, and it's SP2's fault? Come on, for one as [H]ard as you must realize these seem to be two separate faults. However, I do wish you had saved the dump files so I could figure out how it could have happened.
Now on the security front, I assure you it's a lot more then just a little feature work. I recommend SP2 to everybody, since it's no longer a secure world, and just cause you have a hardware firewall, doesn't mean in two days someone won't attack the firewall and win. (Happened to me, linksys router, power went out, came back on, somehow the router software got reset to defaults, had a ton of script kiddies on my router on about 2 hours... Noticed because my cable modem speed sucked, but no boxes on my network got compromised... )
Now on the security front, I assure you it's a lot more then just a little feature work. I recommend SP2 to everybody, since it's no longer a secure world, and just cause you have a hardware firewall, doesn't mean in two days someone won't attack the firewall and win. (Happened to me, linksys router, power went out, came back on, somehow the router software got reset to defaults, had a ton of script kiddies on my router on about 2 hours... Noticed because my cable modem speed sucked, but no boxes on my network got compromised...
)I don't care to argue fault, or place blame. The simple point is that I have used the browser since shortly after the initial install 1-1/2 years ago without a hitch. As providence has it, today it failed. This is unacceptable, and the only change made to my machine was the addition of SP2. I cannot say if SP2 caused it, I am simply playing the odds. It isn't rocket science, is it? Additionally, WMP9 was enough reason to uninstall the service pack, even if my beloved Firefox had continued its stable path as always. It attemped a hijack of my favorite DVD player, another unacceptable event. Thanks for the effort, but I'll pass.
On security...
I have enough third party software measures in place to adequately protect my machine, in addition to the standard basic ones...not to mention an excellent firewall.
A service pack that I would like would be one that strips out IE, OE, WMP, Messenger, etc....like JUST an operating system...Now, there's a novel idea (that I wish you guys up in Redmond would consider)...It's one that might make XP more secure, too.
On security...
I have enough third party software measures in place to adequately protect my machine, in addition to the standard basic ones...not to mention an excellent firewall.
A service pack that I would like would be one that strips out IE, OE, WMP, Messenger, etc....like JUST an operating system...Now, there's a novel idea (that I wish you guys up in Redmond would consider)...It's one that might make XP more secure, too.
UMCPWintermute
Limp Gawd
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mosin said:
Pretty much every multimedia software you install these days does exactly that. Install Winamp? It wants to associate everything multimedia with itself. Install the ATi MultiMedia Control for my TV tuner card? It wants to control all kinds of video files, including playing DVDs. It's easy as pie to tell it not to take control of the DVDs, and resume your normal life. I think you're blowing the "it hijacked my DVD player" out of proportion.
However, the choice is ultimately yours as to installing SP2. My question remains: what are you going to do when MSFT only releases patches for those who have SP2 installed? Are you going to stay unpatched, or bite the bullet later, and install SP2?
Maybe Microsoft should stick to making an operating system, and leave the hijacking to others.UMCPWintermute...in response to my comment that WMP9 hijacked my DVD player. said:
Right, except it screws things up enough that you cannot resume your normal life. It's like the guy who tells his ex, "If I can't have you, nobody can."UMCPWintermute said:
I don't. I just put WMP9 in my "Sin Against God" list.UMCPWintermute said:
Thankfully.UMCPWintermute said:
I am going to buy XP Lite, and strip out the crap that makes XP a target to begin with. Then, I'm going to continue on my merry way, and leave the discussion of patches and service packs to others who are more inclined.UMCPWintermute said:
mosin said:Maybe Microsoft should stick to making an operating system, and leave the hijacking to others.
Right, except it screws things up enough that you cannot resume your normal life. It's like the guy who tells his ex, "If I can't have you, nobody can."
I don't. I just put WMP9 in my "Sin Against God" list.
Thankfully.
I am going to buy XP Lite, and strip out the crap that makes XP a target to begin with. Then, I'm going to continue on my merry way, and leave the discussion of patches and service packs to others who are more inclined.
It's all or nothing Mosin. Either go along with the plans MS has for their OS, or change to a different OS. By going against them, you will only make it harder for yourself. Time will prove that. They aren't going to make a "Windows XP Mosin Edition". If you don't like it, Linux is calling for you... And keep your hands on your copy of XP, because shortly it will be impossible to get XP without "Satan Pack 2" included...
True. I'll survive, though.OldPueblo said:It's all or nothing Mosin. Either go along with the plans MS has for their OS, or change to a different OS. By going against them, you will only make it harder for yourself. Time will prove that. They aren't going to make a "Windows XP Mosin Edition". If you don't like it, Linux is calling for you... And keep your hands on your copy of XP, because shortly it will be impossible to get XP without "Satan Pack 2" included...
You have suggestions and ideas that you think will add to Microsoft's OS?
[email protected]
That is a real address. Send requests there.
[email protected]
That is a real address. Send requests there.
Thanks, but my requests aren't economically feasible for Microsoft, even if they agreed. They don't, of course, because they make money from the stuff that I don't like, and they aren't about to split it all up separately. I can't blame them.GreNME said:
The integration of programs that aren't critical to an operating system are my objections, as I have previously listed. The debate over browser integration has been held in courts of law, and in the court of public opinion, with diverse rulings and opinions, but the die is cast. A debate about the other integrated programs, like OE and WMP, would produce the same results, in my opinion. Microsoft won. I can live with that, as long as I am still able to tweak the system to my satisfaction. I realize that one day, I will most likely lose that capability, but I'll carry on until that time comes.