Sound Blaster X-FI Titanium HD Sound Card Review @ [H]

mortonP said:
In theory any solid state audio should always sound the same but there are people who believe a SS amp will sound different after warming up. Can't say I ever noticed any dif myself though.
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Warm-up is NOT the same thing as break-in. Most Class A amplifiers have DC biasing circuitry to compensate for temperature variation in the output stage components. This has nothing to do with the idea that an op amp somehow changes over weeks of normal operation.


Rock&Roll said:
There is such a thing as wire biasing. I remember reading about it many many years ago. I forget much of the detail now.
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Citation needed.
 
I don't believe in break in of SS electronics either, that's just pseudo audiophile BS. Even speaker break in has been refuted by some people but I won't go that far.
 
Robscix said:
In many cases though newer soundcards will have higher end DAC's then the receivers when people use the S/Pdif input section. This is not to say the receiver is cheap or sounds bad but this is usually an area that companies cheap out on.
Usually analog connection to receivers can yeild higher quality sound then using digital to the same receiver. This is dependant on the receiver and the card being used though. This card has higher quality components in comparison to the 0404USB and this card is using very high quality DAC's. I guess you would have to compare them to the units in the receiver, to answer that question.
If you have a high end source with good DAC's try it out....
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Until I see proof the DAC is better than the one in my EMU and Denon receiver the jury is out.
 
Ok, my question is I have the Logitech z 5450:
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Z-5450-Digital-Speaker-970181-0403/dp/B000AM6QHO

I have an Auzentech Prelude PCI, but I'd love to have a PCIe so I can move 1 of my 460 gtx to the other 16x slot. I only have 1 frikin PCI and if I put the 460 in the second 16x then I loose the PCI slot. SO, is it worth getting this Creative HD card and just going digital?
 
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gman said:
Ok, my question is I have the Logitech z 5450:
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Z-5450-Digital-Speaker-970181-0403/dp/B000AM6QHO

I have an Auzentech Prelude PCI, but I'd love to have a PCIe so I can move 1 of my 460 gtx to the other 16x slot. I only have 1 frikin PCI and if I put the 460 in the second 16x then I loose the PCI slot. SO, is it worth getting this Creative HD card and just going digital?
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Asus Xonar DS for PCI. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132013

The Xonar DX for PCIe. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132006

PCI has OpAmp support. SNR as good as cards starting at more than twice the price, front panel connectors, 7.1 analog support, digital out.

I used to be a Creative guy from when they were the only option to even now still, with my USB based XFi sound card for DJing. But Asus has simply won this game for some time if you're looking at basic cards without sacrificing on sound quality.
 
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mortonP wrote above:"Until I see proof the DAC is better than the one in my EMU and Denon receiver the jury is out."

Although it took awhile of searching, I found the DAC of the Titanium HD is a Burr-Brown PCM1794 by Texas Instruments. It is a 24-bit 192KHz delta-sigma stereo digital to analog converter. This specific converter is used by a company called Cary in some of their high end CD players.

Here are some uses of the DAC:
* A/V Receivers
* DVD Players
* Musical Instruments
* HDTV Receivers
* Car Audio Systems
* Digital Multitrack Recorders
* Other Applications Requiring 24-Bit Audio

Here is a location I just found on the DAC and you can see for yourself.http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/84737/TI/PCM1794.html

This information was not made available to us by the manufacturer of the sound card. This was personally found by me and me alone.

Thanks very much for the question and feedback.
 
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After about 6 more hours of listening to this card, I'm going to have to retract what I said about "Audio Creation Mode" being the clear winner....

It would seem I was being duped as l lucked out listening to tracks that had some added depth from increased highs (blame the mastering engineer). But I began to be suspicious as I listened to some tracks where the sheer depth of the sound stage in this mode went to the point that it really only worked for focusing on one instrument/enjoying, not enjoying the tracks as a whole compilation of sounds.(Which is great, if you're trying to listen for errors and other details in music you are actually recording and mixing). Albums that really brought this out were some of the early Who albums (like The Who Sell out) and Gram Parsons' anthology 'Sacred Hearts and Fallen Angels.'

Hence, I've put the settings back to "Entertainment Mode" and found much better balance across all tracks I've played. So far so good. Stereo imaging and dynamics are still stellar. Not as deep and wild as Audio Creation Mode. But with better natural balance.
 
I have a Z5500 and love the digital input from my old Audigy 2ZS. I have a separate home theater system if I want to listen to music or something with my audiophile sensibilities.

I'm not an audiophile snob, but vinyl kinda rules. And my Mirage BPS400 sub kinda rocks the living room.

Computer for me is gaming and other "computer stuff".

Music is another thing entirely.
 
EarlKeim said:
mortonP wrote above:"Until I see proof the DAC is better than the one in my EMU and Denon receiver the jury is out."

Although it took awhile of searching, I found the DAC of the Titanium HD is a Burr-Brown PCM1794 by Texas Instruments. It is a 24-bit 192KHz delta-sigma stereo digital to analog converter. This specific converter is used by a company called Cary in some of their high end CD players.

Here are some uses of the DAC:
* A/V Receivers
* DVD Players
* Musical Instruments
* HDTV Receivers
* Car Audio Systems
* Digital Multitrack Recorders
* Other Applications Requiring 24-Bit Audio

Here is a location I just found on the DAC and you can see for yourself.http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/84737/TI/PCM1794.html

This information was not made available to us by the manufacturer of the sound card. This was personally found by me and me alone.

Thanks very much for the question and feedback.
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If I remember correctly the Xonar Essence STX uses the Burr Brown 1792, which is supposedly a slight step up.
 
In my search of late, I have found people make cases for this Op Amp over that one, and someone else argue back in the opposite direction just as strongly.

The one single constant I have found is that everybody's tastes differ in terms of preference of which Op Amp to swap. How the music sounds before and after is heavily debated because of changes in detail or definition and warmth. The change of the Op Amp is extremely simple though and you can always change back if you do not like it. You do not have to replace the whole card. That is a great feature of both ASUS and Creative's cards.;)
 
EarlKeim said:
In my search of late, I have found people make cases for this Op Amp over that one, and someone else argue back in the opposite direction just as strongly.

The one single constant I have found is that everybody's tastes differ in terms of preference of which Op Amp to swap. How the music sounds before and after is heavily debated because of changes in detail or definition and warmth. The change of the Op Amp is extremely simple though and you can always change back if you do not like it. You do not have to replace the whole card. That is a great feature of both ASUS and Creative's cards.;)
Click to expand...

Not directed at me right? I referred to the DAC.
 
EarlKeim said:
mortonP wrote above:"Until I see proof the DAC is better than the one in my EMU and Denon receiver the jury is out."

Although it took awhile of searching, I found the DAC of the Titanium HD is a Burr-Brown PCM1794 by Texas Instruments. It is a 24-bit 192KHz delta-sigma stereo digital to analog converter. This specific converter is used by a company called Cary in some of their high end CD players.

Here are some uses of the DAC:
* A/V Receivers
* DVD Players
* Musical Instruments
* HDTV Receivers
* Car Audio Systems
* Digital Multitrack Recorders
* Other Applications Requiring 24-Bit Audio

Here is a location I just found on the DAC and you can see for yourself.http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/84737/TI/PCM1794.html

This information was not made available to us by the manufacturer of the sound card. This was personally found by me and me alone.

Thanks very much for the question and feedback.
Click to expand...


Denon also uses BB DACs but don't know which one is in the 789 model. My EMU 0404 uses AKM DAC which is also a high end DAC.
 
EarlKeim said:
In my search of late, I have found people make cases for this Op Amp over that one, and someone else argue back in the opposite direction just as strongly.

The one single constant I have found is that everybody's tastes differ in terms of preference of which Op Amp to swap. How the music sounds before and after is heavily debated because of changes in detail or definition and warmth. The change of the Op Amp is extremely simple though and you can always change back if you do not like it. You do not have to replace the whole card. That is a great feature of both ASUS and Creative's cards.;)
Click to expand...

Well, any good soundcard/amp should sound neutral and not colorize the SQ.
 
Just found this post on another forum.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/receivers/58172-recievers-dacs.html

"Burr-Brown are hardly remarkable DAC's especially the cheap ones that find their way into most receivers these days. If you are looking for a high performance DAC look for Wolfson or AKM, but these are found in expensive gear and the performance difference is significant."

EMU uses AKM so perhaps they sound better than this new X-Fi. EMU is Creative too but for the pro-sumer market.
 
wadec22 said:
If I remember correctly the Xonar Essence STX uses the Burr Brown 1792, which is supposedly a slight step up.
Click to expand...

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/dsd1792.html

Description

The DSD1792 is a monolithic CMOS integrated circuit that includes stereo digital-to-analog converters and support circuitry in a small 28-lead SSOP package. The data converters use TI’s advanced-segment DAC architecture to achieve excellent dynamic performance and improved tolerance to clock jitter. The DSD1792 provides balanced current outputs, allowing the user to optimize analog performance externally. The DSD1792 accepts the PCM and DSD audio data formats, providing easy interfacing to audio DSP and decoder chips. The DSD1792 also interfaces with external digital filter devices (DF1704, DF1706, PMD200). Sampling rates up to 200 kHz are supported. A full set of user-programmable functions is accessible through a 4-wire serial control port, which supports register write and readback functions.

View full Description in Datasheet

Features

* Supports Both DSD and PCM Formats
* 24-Bit Resolution
* Analog Performance:
o Dynamic Range:
+ 132 dB (9 V rms, Mono)
+ 129 dB (4.5 V rms, Stereo)
+ 127 dB (2 V rms, Stereo)
o THD+N: 0.0004%
* Differential Current Output: 7.8 mA p-p
* 8× Oversampling Digital Filter:
o Stop-Band Attenuation: –130 dB
o Pass-Band Ripple: ±0.00001 dB
* Sampling Frequency: 10 kHz to 200 kHz
* System Clock: 128, 192, 256, 384, 512, or 768 fS with Autodetect
* Accepts 16-, 20-, and 24-Bit Audio Data
* PCM Data Formats: Standard, I2S, and Left-Justified
* DSD Format Interface Available
* Optional Interface to External Digital Filter or DSP Available
* TDMCA Interface Available
* User-Programmable Mode Controls:

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/dsd1794a.html

Description

The DSD1794A is a monolithic CMOS integrated circuit that includes stereo digital-to-analog converters and support circuitry in a small 28-lead SSOP package. The data converters use TI’s advanced-segment DAC architecture to achieve excellent dynamic performance and improved tolerance to clock jitter. The DSD1794A provides balanced current outputs, allowing the user to optimize analog performance externally. The DSD1794A accepts the PCM and DSD audio data formats, providing easy interfacing to audio DSP and decoder chips. The DSD1794A also interfaces with external digital filter devices (DF1704, DF1706, PMD200). Sampling rates up to 200 kHz are supported. A full set of user-programmable functions is accessible through an I2C-compatible serial port.

Features

* Supports Both DSD and PCM Formats
* 24-Bit Resolution
* Analog Performance:
o Dynamic Range:
+ 132 dB (9 V RMS, Mono)
+ 129 dB (4.5 V RMS, Stereo)
+ 127 dB (2 V RMS, Stereo)
o THD+N: 0.0004%
* Differential Current Output: 7.8 mA p-p
* 8× Oversampling Digital Filter:
o Stop-Band Attenuation: –130 dB
o Pass-Band Ripple: ±0.00001 dB
* Sampling Frequency: 10 kHz to 200 kHz
* System Clock: 128, 192, 256, 384, 512, or 768 fS With Autodetect
* Accepts 16-, 20-, and 24-Bit Audio Data
* PCM Data Formats: Standard, I2S, and Left-Justified
* Optional Interface to External Digital Filter or DSP Available
* I2C-Compatible Serial Port
* User-Programmable Mode Controls:
o Digital Attenuation: 0 dB to –120 dB, 0.5 dB/Step
 
the Titanium HD is far superior to the Titanium original.
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Dunno man, I just have a hard time with this "blowing the X-Fi out of the water" stuff. I have the X-Fi, been using it since it first came out. No complaints here. I can see comments like the new one is better but this blowing it out of the water IMO is an extreme exaggeration. The thought of sending my existing card packing (which still has kick ass sound as far as I'm concerned) and spending almost $200 for this card that I'm probably not going to be able to tell the difference sound wise is just stupid to me. This is always the stuff that comes out when people are comparing anything sound related. It's always so subjective with the so called audio experts swearing it isn't.
 
Well I must say, that my wife is a singer and she and I listen to music together on a regular basis. She noticed the difference in the two immediately without my prompting.

Two years with the card in my system, and one change in hardware with this card, so that is not a fluke.

Listen for yourself to a wide variety of songs and games. Worse thing you could do is simply not like it and take it back. Spending a good amount of time with a sound product is crucial to its appreciation. A few seconds at a friend's house would never convince me. A month made me a believer. I used the ASUS card for over a month as well. When I say a month, I listen for hours each day, not minutes.
 
EarlKeim - any thoughts on how this compares to Auzentech's offerings, such as the Prelude or Forte?
 
I have not used either of those two cards. It would not be fair for me to make a comparison on either card in regard to the Creative one.
 
I clearly must be missing something here - why would Creative release a soundcard with no ability to do analog 5.1 or 7.1? That eliminates use of any surround PC speaker setups.

Sure, if you spend another $400 on a receiver, you can use the optical, but how many people - even among the audience for this card - have a receiver for their PC audio? And how do you get any 5.1 surround for PC games over optical when no games are coded in DD? I thought the only way to do that was to use Dolby Digital Live over optical or, again, use analog 5.1?
 
Hm been looking at sound cards a lot as of late to give my sennheiser pc350s a boost. I.don't know. How big of a difference is this card really with the asus xonar stx? I've been using this first gen xtrememusic xfi for so long and I think creative updated the divers once when win 7 came out and they haven't touched it since then.
 
There is a difference though. The Extreme Music was not designed from the ground up either in hardware or drivers and software for Vista and Windows 7's driver model and requirements. There is absolutely no similarity in the two audio stacks of XP and Vista/7.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/larryosterman/archive/tags/audio/

start at the site above to read all of the problems users and developers have encountered because of the changes in the audio stack. That is the man responsible for all the changes.

This card was designed for the new driver model without any compatibility focused upon XP. We have not had a single driver or software problem in our test machine since the installation. In our review we stated that the only problem was our fault when we got the optical cable dirty.

When we first switched over to Vista and later Windows 7, the older cards did not function well at all with the official drivers and software updates, in our opinion. This installation, test and review was conducted strictly using official software. That is good on Creative's part FINALLY as we can say bye bye to hacks and workarounds. Let's hope the company supports this product until its end of life.
 
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Matrices, Spot on my friend... Exactly my thoughts re the analog. I have a titanium HD sitting in a box in my PC room. I can't think of a reason to install it & replace the x-fi fata1ty pcie sitting in my main pc with its nice 5.1 analog out into to my pioneer receiver & surround setup. sigh....

Wish I'd read this review before i bought the card, foolishly thought there was no way Creative would bin off the analog 5.1 out! Sucker.... :(
 
EarlKeim said:
There is a difference though. The Extreme Music was not designed from the ground up either in hardware or drivers and software for Vista and Windows 7's driver model and requirements. There is absolutely no similarity in the two audio stacks of XP and Vista/7.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/larryosterman/archive/tags/audio/

start at the site above to read all of the problems users and developers have encountered because of the changes in the audio stack. That is the man responsible for all the changes.

This card was designed for the new driver model without any compatibility focused upon XP. We have not had a single driver or software problem in our test machine since the installation. In our review we stated that the only problem was our fault when we got the optical cable dirty.

When we first switched over to Vista and later Windows 7, the older cards did not function well at all with the official drivers and software updates, in our opinion. This installation, test and review was conducted strictly using official software. That is good on Creative's part FINALLY as we can say bye bye to hacks and workarounds. Let's hope the company supports this product until its end of life.
Click to expand...

Im not an extreme audiophile by any means and all I have for my setup is a Z-2300 and a
pair of Sennhesier PC350s which is what the card is mostly for... having a hard time deciding between the Asus Xonar STX and the SB.

Is the headphone performance differ greatly between those two?
 
AznAnarchy99 said:
Im not an extreme audiophile by any means and all I have for my setup is a Z-2300 and a
pair of Sennhesier PC350s which is what the card is mostly for... having a hard time deciding between the Asus Xonar STX and the SB.

Is the headphone performance differ greatly between those two?
Click to expand...

If you're going for headphones as your primary listening interface, you'll probably want to go with the Asus Xonar STX since it has the dedicated headphone amp.
 
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I have the Auzentech Prelude and it's been a great card, but really want a PCIe. I originally bought the Auzentech because the Claro I had at the time didn't work half the time so I was stoked when I got the Prelude. It worked out of the box though the software was not quite finished. I don't mind digital since I have the Logitech z 5450s which are great speakers and hopefully they will continue to work for a few more years. Anyone else here have them?
 
As I said in the review, the headphone out on the Titanium HD is rated as high as 330 ohms impedance while the ASUS card can handle a much higher requirement up to 600 ohms.

The highest requirement I have seen on users' favorite headphones is 250 ohms from the Beyer Dynamic 880 headphones but I am sure there are headphones that could require more.

So the choice is up to you as to which card you pick.
 
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Juddog said:
If you're going for headphones as your primary listening interface, you'll probably want to go with the Asus Xonar STX since it has the built in headphone amp.
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One of the BIGGEST reasons of the Creation of this card was to create a good headphone solution. Read the review lol... what a comment fail.
 
Of course the HD has a head phone amp. I personally don't use as I have a 500 euro earmax pro, but did you expect anything else with the STX around? Seriously, what I am interested in (even if it's too late now that I own the HD) is seeing some RightMark Audio Analyzer numbers between the STX and the HD. Seriously, any comparisons in a review without these is, well, subjective to put it mildly. It's like reviewing a video card without running actual benchmarks against competitors...
 
A significant number of high-end audiophile headphones are typically rated at 300 ohms - e.g. both Senn HD 650 (which I own and use with this card) and HD 800. Then again AFAIK most studio cans are rated at 600 ohms.
 
OFaceSIG said:
One of the BIGGEST reasons of the Creation of this card was to create a good headphone solution. Read the review lol... what a comment fail.
Click to expand...

I read the review, jackass. There was a comment on another forum of "No, while this card does have a dedicated headphones output, it does NOT have a dedicated amplifier circuit." from the following, also several times earlier in this thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/519358/x-fi-titanium-hd-headphone-amp

-- edit --
I made a mistake in my original statement about the amp not being present, I had meant to refer to the dedicated amplifier circuit in the Asus Xonar STX. The Ohm difference, as mentioned in the review, should mean that most non-studio headphones should work fine, I totally agree with that.
 
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I wonder if their newer drivers would do a better job in Win7 for my xfi fatality? or are there improvements limited to support for this new card only?
 
puttersonsale said:
This page says that if you have 5.1 or 7.1 or even anything.1 that its not meant for you since its mainly stereo it looks like you can attach via optical cable but it may be no better if you already have a multichannel Sound card like x-fi anything else.
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Well, it only means that the card only has 2.0 analog outputs and to get 5.1 you need to use DDL over SPDIF to your 5.1 receiver. The output quality thru SPDIF will be comparable to any other card, heck, even onboard audio with DDL output.
The limiting factors here are the compressed signal thru SPDIF and OPAMPs in the receivers (unless you have $1000+ receiver).

But the X-Fi HD is a good card if you want to use headphones for music/movies and 5.1 DDL for gaming.
 
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