Sony's E3 Keynote

Spaceman_Spiff said:
I'm pretty sure you're in the minority with this opinion. The bottom line is that sony's announcements were mostly long term and microsoft's will be here by the end of the year. Personally, I don't care much about long term stuff and when 2 of your main developers are square and polyphony its probably a toss up if we'll even see those games at all in 2010.

ModNation Racers looks great but nothing else new was very noteworthy, imo. The psp GT and gt5 have been in development literally for years, how many e3's do they get to showcase that game at before it doesn't count anymore?

Microsoft's motion controller stuff was more impressive, and I think their facebook/twitter stuff is better and more useful than home.
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Microsoft's presentation was very neat. But its all just slightly improved versions of stuff that Nintendo and Sony already have. And, they didn't showoff or announce any actual games for the stuff. Its cool to see tech demos and hear hyperbole but will it actually deliver? Will it actually make me feel like using a controller sucks? Will any of the games be legitimate games and not just tech demos full of air? Will their motion tech be able to give us what the Wii won't?

Sony tried the camera thing, it was pretty neat in theory but it failed to get supported with games and slid into the shadows.

Nintendo delivered a decent product with a great marketing strategy and is accepting money by the bail. buuuuuuuut, there is a general consensus from the gaming community that the Wii has little substance. There are some great games on the Wii, yes. But not many, not enough and some of the Wii's best games are re-purposed Gamecube games.

Nobody knows what to do with this stuff yet.

Sony had the best presentation because they gave us games. Games for the already proven way to play them. I'm not one to hang exclusives above heads, but not only did they announce and show the most games, they also had the most exclusives---and they are arguably better exclusives than the other guys. Eff the specifics though, games. This is why they weren't trying to toot everyone's horn with their motion peripheral, because they too don't know what to do with it yet. But they've got to keep up, so here it is, with better tracking than the Wiimote or Natal will EVER have.....
They've also got the only relevant console MMO. Squaresoft knows that American MMO players are biased to the PC, so they are making a PC version. The console version will be here too, for the few that are curious, but FFXIV for PS3 exists for Japan. Japan will buy the shit out of some PS3 to play FF XIV. Because A. Japan is not known for its PC gaming and B. Japan loves Final Fantasy.

The more I think about it, the less shocking the PSP GO's price is. If Sony Markets correctly, they could pick up some of the MP3 player market. A lot of those 16gb pmp type MP3 players cost similar----But the PSP also plays games! and now its small enough! And still features Remote Play, which is badass!

Seriously probably gonna buy a PSP GO.
 
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Personally they should have just made the psp go! a psp phone just give it a touch screen to operate a keypad a mic and headset speaker and you got it...

also
1. Screen is half an inch smaller
2. no umd means your limited to the content you bought on PSN
3. it uses a ms mini instead of a pro duo like current psp the ms the go uses is the sony phone one.
4. there were no details on the battery. My questions are is it smaller and not able to be used in slims or orginal psp vice versa? is it non user replaceable/soldered in?
5. price is 80 more than a psp 2000 or 3000 is right now... 50 if you buy a psp 3000 bundle...
6. the controls look poorly placed they will cramp most peoples hands up...
7. the controls look like they could have worked a second control nub in, move the start and select and put it int he dip there and start and select go up in the empty area between the dips for the other buttons...

Also the weight reduction is compared to the 1000 series... the 2000/3000 is already 33% lighter than the 1000 so removing the umd drive saved them all of 7%

they should have went with a flip design people complain about the screens scratching this one is going to scratch bad.
 
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Lunas said:
Also the weight reduction is compared to the 1000 series... the 2000/3000 is already 33% lighter than the 1000 so removing the umd drive saved them all of 7%
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I noticed that in the presentation. Thought it was a really clever (if cheeky) use of stats. :D
 
Most likely the sliding mechanism and other design follys they did increased the weight in other aspects. Which made up for all they were able to save I would also not be surprised if the battery was reduced in size or made non user serviceable ie. soldered in.


And adding 50-80 dollars to the price is just wrong it should be at most 169-199 depending what download codes or preinstalled games it comes with... perhaps the most expensive advertising they have done yet to try to convince them to buy psp 3000 units...

I really hope the go does really really bad in sales to show them the error of that kind of thinking... It reminds me of this comic... it is a broken psp...
 
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chameleoneel said:
Microsoft's presentation was very neat. But its all just slightly improved versions of stuff that Nintendo and Sony already have. And, they didn't showoff or announce any actual games for the stuff. Its cool to see tech demos and hear hyperbole but will it actually deliver? Will it actually make me feel like using a controller sucks? Will any of the games be legitimate games and not just tech demos full of air? Will their motion tech be able to give us what the Wii won't?

Sony tried the camera thing, it was pretty neat in theory but it failed to get supported with games and slid into the shadows.

Nintendo delivered a decent product with a great marketing strategy and is accepting money by the bail. buuuuuuuut, there is a general consensus from the gaming community that the Wii has little substance. There are some great games on the Wii, yes. But not many, not enough and some of the Wii's best games are re-purposed Gamecube games.

Nobody knows what to do with this stuff yet.

Sony had the best presentation because they gave us games. Games for the already proven way to play them. I'm not one to hang exclusives above heads, but not only did they announce and show the most games, they also had the most exclusives---and they are arguably better exclusives than the other guys. Eff the specifics though, games. This is why they weren't trying to toot everyone's horn with their motion peripheral, because they too don't know what to do with it yet. But they've got to keep up, so here it is, with better tracking than the Wiimote or Natal will EVER have.....
They've also got the only relevant console MMO. Squaresoft knows that American MMO players are biased to the PC, so they are making a PC version. The console version will be here too, for the few that are curious, but FFXIV for PS3 exists for Japan. Japan will buy the shit out of some PS3 to play FF XIV. Because A. Japan is not known for its PC gaming and B. Japan loves Final Fantasy.

The more I think about it, the less shocking the PSP GO's price is. If Sony Markets correctly, they could pick up some of the MP3 player market. A lot of those 16gb pmp type MP3 players cost similar----But the PSP also plays games! and now its small enough! And still features Remote Play, which is badass!

Seriously probably gonna buy a PSP GO.
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You obviously don't understand the tech if you think natal = eyetoy. Hint, 2 cameras =/= 1 camera.
 
Sure the Go costs more, it also has 16gig of memory, and bluetooh. Those arent free. Some people need to get a clue about pricing. Guess how much the PSP was when it first came out. Guess what happens once production gets better/cheaper. Prices go down.
 
fallguy said:
Sure the Go costs more, it also has 16gig of memory, and bluetooh. Those arent free. Some people need to get a clue about pricing. Guess how much the PSP was when it first came out. Guess what happens once production gets better/cheaper. Prices go down.
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It also has a smaller screen and fewer features and lack of BC with the entire PSP library.

edited to clarify
 
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fallguy said:
Guess how much the PSP was when it first came out. Guess what happens once production gets better/cheaper. Prices go down.
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So why is it so much more expensive than the PSP 3000 was at launch? That was a new model too. I'm pretty certain Sony doesn't pay $90 for a memory stick / bluetooth chip.
 
fallguy said:
Sure the Go costs more, it also has 16gig of memory, and bluetooh. Those arent free. Some people need to get a clue about pricing. Guess how much the PSP was when it first came out. Guess what happens once production gets better/cheaper. Prices go down.
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Its got the same hardware inside as the current psp, and considering it doesn't have the umd drive taking all that space up its possible there isn't even a die shrink or anything like that. Taking that into consideration I think its way, way overpriced. Bluetooth is nice I guess but I wouldn't pay more than $10 for it, considering all connectivity with ps3 games will have to be backwards compatible with wifi anyway. 16 gigs of memory probably doesn't cost them more than $20-30, so factor in the removal of the umd drive and I figure you can add $10-15 to the price for it. $150 seems reasonable to me.

For the record I think the dsi is overpriced as well for what you get, and should be at $149.99 also. But considering it isn't, I think it would be reasonable for the psp go to also have been priced at $179.99. More than that just isn't worth it.

The ipod touch comparisons don't really work because apple always charges more, both because they are apple and also because the ipod would sell at almost any price. Psp doesn't have that kind of clout.
 
Technoob said:
It also has a smaller screen and fewer features and BC with the entire PSP library.
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why should it be cheaper with a smaller screen, surely it can cost more to pack the same amount of pixels into a smaller screen
 
Spaceman_Spiff said:
Step 1: Close one eye and walk around for 10 minutes.
Step 2: Open both eyes and walk around for 10 minutes.

Any clearer now?
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How much resolution do these two cams have? Do me a favour, if you have a webcam, please take a picture of yourself 10 feet from it and see how many pixels are there that represent your body. Then if you have a 12MPixel DSLR, do the same thing and see how many more pixels are there that represent your body.

One thing is for sure, to correctly track the motion of a full body and its depth, two low pixel cams won't be enough and using high pixel CCDs would be expensive.

Now you have two images from two cams with slightly different images that can be used to calculate the position and depth. The question now, would the console do the signal processing or would you need a hardware to process this images and then send the information to the console?
 
chameleoneel said:
Microsoft's presentation was very neat. But its all just slightly improved versions of stuff that Nintendo and Sony already have. And, they didn't showoff or announce any actual games for the stuff. Its cool to see tech demos and hear hyperbole but will it actually deliver? Will it actually make me feel like using a controller sucks? Will any of the games be legitimate games and not just tech demos full of air? Will their motion tech be able to give us what the Wii won't?

Sony tried the camera thing, it was pretty neat in theory but it failed to get supported with games and slid into the shadows.

Nintendo delivered a decent product with a great marketing strategy and is accepting money by the bail. buuuuuuuut, there is a general consensus from the gaming community that the Wii has little substance. There are some great games on the Wii, yes. But not many, not enough and some of the Wii's best games are re-purposed Gamecube games.

Nobody knows what to do with this stuff yet.

Sony had the best presentation because they gave us games. Games for the already proven way to play them. I'm not one to hang exclusives above heads, but not only did they announce and show the most games, they also had the most exclusives---and they are arguably better exclusives than the other guys. Eff the specifics though, games. This is why they weren't trying to toot everyone's horn with their motion peripheral, because they too don't know what to do with it yet. But they've got to keep up, so here it is, with better tracking than the Wiimote or Natal will EVER have.....
They've also got the only relevant console MMO. Squaresoft knows that American MMO players are biased to the PC, so they are making a PC version. The console version will be here too, for the few that are curious, but FFXIV for PS3 exists for Japan. Japan will buy the shit out of some PS3 to play FF XIV. Because A. Japan is not known for its PC gaming and B. Japan loves Final Fantasy.

The more I think about it, the less shocking the PSP GO's price is. If Sony Markets correctly, they could pick up some of the MP3 player market. A lot of those 16gb pmp type MP3 players cost similar----But the PSP also plays games! and now its small enough! And still features Remote Play, which is badass!

Seriously probably gonna buy a PSP GO.
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Good Post, I agree with your Natal comment's and the Milo thing was not running on it's on people, Kotaku already stated with their behind closed door demo that it wasn't like the video they showed onstage and someone was helping it from Lionhead in the room with the interaction. And wether you like it or not it is an advanced eyetoy more or less. And watch Kudo demo the movements on stage, when he got up there he was moving fast ant his avatar was not able to keep up until he slowed his movement's down... so yes MS does have full body control but it is NOT 1:1 like what was showed by Sony.

But Natal/Milo could be something great but we have no clue yet if it will be realized.
 
alg7_munif said:
How much resolution do these two cams have? Do me a favour, if you have a webcam, please take a picture of yourself 10 feet from it and see how many pixels are there that represent your body. Then if you have a 12MPixel DSLR, do the same thing and see how many more pixels are there that represent your body.

One thing is for sure, to correctly track the motion of a full body and its depth, two low pixel cams won't be enough and using high pixel CCDs would be expensive.
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Will you fucking stop it? You've been given plenty of links to understand the tech and you're not even bothering to try.... yet you're perfectly content trolling away all the same.

As it goes, it doesn't use two cameras to calculated depth, it does it by bouncing infra red off you. This isn't stereo triangulation.
 
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Psychotext said:
Will you fucking stop it? You've been given plenty of links to understand the tech and you're not even bothering to try.... yet you're perfectly content trolling away all the same.

It doesn't use two cameras to calculated depth, it does it by bouncing infra red off you. This isn't stereo triangulation.
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I'm not the one who said that it was stereo triangulation, Technoob is the one who mentioned the two cams and Spaceman_Spiff too. I was just playing along asking them to explain more what they did understand about the tech.

I know already that the depth calculation was done using the infrared time of flight calculation. My question remains valid, how many pixels do you need to track a human body correctly from 10 feet away. How many pixels do you need to be able to recognize a face from 10 feet away? How much does it cost to be able to do it? What hardware will be used to process the signal?
 
Which was why I changed my post. You quote too fast. :p

But here.. for everyone that wants to know how Natal works so they can argue about it:

How Does “Project Natal” Work?

• “Project Natal” sensor. “Project Natal” is the world’s first system to combine an RGB camera, depth sensor, multiarray microphone and custom processor running proprietary software that brings “Project Natal” experiences to every Xbox 360 console. The “Project Natal” sensor tracks full-body movement and individual voices, creating controller-free fun and social entertainment available only on Xbox 360.

• RGB camera. “Project Natal” has a video camera that delivers the three basic color components. As part of the “Project Natal” sensor, the RGB camera helps enable facial recognition and more.

• Depth sensor. An infrared projector combined with a monochrome CMOS sensor allows “Project Natal” to see the room in 3-D (as opposed to inferring the room from a 2-D image) under any lighting conditions.

• Multiarray microphone. “Project Natal” has a microphone that will be able to locate voices by sound and extract ambient noise. The multiarray microphone will enable headset-free Xbox LIVE party chat and more.

• Custom processor (running Microsoft proprietary software layer). A proprietary software layer makes the magic of “Project Natal” possible. This layer differentiates “Project Natal” from any other technology on the market through its ability to enable human body recognition and extract other visual noise.
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Psychotext said:
So why is it so much more expensive than the PSP 3000 was at launch? That was a new model too. I'm pretty certain Sony doesn't pay $90 for a memory stick / bluetooth chip.
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New model? More like updated model. Same thing, diff screen. The 3000 is not a completely new handheld, like the Go is. Slide out screen, etc. There has to be a whole new line to make it.

Dont like the price? Vote with your walet then. I will probably get it. I like my slim well enough, but going for my second tour next Feb, and a smaller handheld is better, and no UMD's is even better. Where space is a premium, smaller is better for me in this instance.
 
fallguy said:
New model? More like updated model. Same thing, diff screen. The 3000 is not a completely new handheld, like the Go is. Slide out screen, etc. There has to be a whole new line to make it.
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Fair enough, but retooling a line doesn't really account for a massive long term cost. Not to mention that the internals remain the same cost reduced chips etc that the PSP 3000 used (with the addition of a couple of things).

But like you've said, if I don't want to pay for it... I wont.
 
Spaceman_Spiff said:
The ipod touch comparisons don't really work because apple always charges more, both because they are apple and also because the ipod would sell at almost any price. Psp doesn't have that kind of clout.
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How does it not work in a business standpoint? How many PMPs can you name costs $200 with ~ the same size screen as the PSP? After that, how many can you name that are a full fledged gaming device? Thats right, zero. To a Sony exec, the pricing is reasonable. If the PSP go doesnt sell well, then great news for us since we can pick it up for the cheap.

As a whole, the sony keynote was about the same quality as the MS keynote. I liked how both were about games and both had one new peripheral. It wasnt crap like the nintendo one.

E3 this year wasnt that great.. but it was definitely better than last year.
 
WaterproofPaper said:
How does it not work in a business standpoint? How many PMPs can you name costs $200 with ~ the same size screen as the PSP? After that, how many can you name that are a full fledged gaming device? Thats right, zero. To a Sony exec, the pricing is reasonable. If the PSP go doesnt sell well, then great news for us since we can pick it up for the cheap.
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I'm saying that any comparable product, from any company, has to cost less than an ipod made by apple, even if they are comparable on paper. Simply because its apple and ipod, and you pay more for both. Not saying its right, but that's how it always has been. Lots of companies have come out with products with the same features and then some at lower prices that haven't been as successful. Branding, marketing, itunes, image, etc can't really be overlooked.
 
WaterproofPaper said:
How does it not work in a business standpoint? How many PMPs can you name costs $200 with ~ the same size screen as the PSP? After that, how many can you name that are a full fledged gaming device? Thats right, zero. To a Sony exec, the pricing is reasonable. If the PSP go doesnt sell well, then great news for us since we can pick it up for the cheap.
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agreed, infact how many pmps can you name with the same screen size, can play full feature games, wifi, bluetooth, and not need a pc to download content from its store and 16gb of flash mem?
i can name 1 and thats the iphone and that costs a bomb
 
Rash said:
agreed, infact how many pmps can you name with the same screen size, can play full feature games, wifi, bluetooth, and not need a pc to download content from its store and 16gb of flash mem?
i can name 1 and thats the iphone and that costs a bomb
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My question is, though, if 2 devices were the same price and had the same features, but one said apple ipod and the other was any other brand, which would sell more? History has clearly shown the ipod trounces other similar devices even when they have more features.
 
Spaceman_Spiff said:
My question is, though, if 2 devices were the same price and had the same features, but one said apple ipod and the other was any other brand, which would sell more? History has clearly shown the ipod trounces other similar devices even when they have more features.
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Funny because last time I checked, PC still has a much larger market share than Macs.
 
alg7_munif said:
Funny because last time I checked, PC still has a much larger market share than Macs.
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Did you miss the word ipod in my comment? We're talking about the ipod, not every apple product ever made. Are you suggesting that comparing the psp go to a mac or a macbook is a more valid comparison than to the ipod?
 
I must of missed something, but why does the PSP Go even have Bluetooth in it? I mean I guess for Skype but seems kind of a waste. Should of been the Sony Ericsson PSP.
 
Numan said:
I must of missed something, but why does the PSP Go even have Bluetooth in it? I mean I guess for Skype but seems kind of a waste. Should of been the Sony Ericsson PSP.
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bluetooth tethering (something iphone users have been craving, meening you dont have to rely on wifi hotspots or home network if you have a mobile phone with an unlimited internet plan, ie my unlimited mobile broadband 3.6meg internet costs £5/month, so you can play multiplayer anywhere or get content anywhere or even watch playtv recordings and remote play anywhere!!), send and receive files via bluetooth also not sure if its confirmed but bluetooth stereo support (something else iphone users have craved) would be great! We should all hate wires in this time!! Not a waste if you ask me!
 
alg7_munif said:
How much resolution do these two cams have? Do me a favour, if you have a webcam, please take a picture of yourself 10 feet from it and see how many pixels are there that represent your body. Then if you have a 12MPixel DSLR, do the same thing and see how many more pixels are there that represent your body.

One thing is for sure, to correctly track the motion of a full body and its depth, two low pixel cams won't be enough and using high pixel CCDs would be expensive.

Now you have two images from two cams with slightly different images that can be used to calculate the position and depth. The question now, would the console do the signal processing or would you need a hardware to process this images and then send the information to the console?
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http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1902208-2,00.html

Read some more on how it works before you keep making yourself look like a drooling fanboy.
 
Technoob said:
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1902208-2,00.html

Read some more on how it works before you keep making yourself look like a drooling fanboy.
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I don't think that you understand how it works so you need to read up some more before calling others a drooling fanboy because if you don't you are making yourself look like a drooling fanboy. When you have understand the technology behind it then please answer my question about the amount of pixels required to be able recognize a face 10 feet away and a full human body.
 
I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, having skimmed through quite a few pages, but it seems Final Fantasy XIV wasn't a PS3 exclusive afterall. I guess for the time being it might be console exclusive, but I wouldn't be surprised if that changes. From Kotaku:

Square Enix are hosting a little press conference this morning to expand upon yesterday's announcement of Final Fantasy XIV, and specifically, to clear up any "confusion" surrounding the game's "exclusivity".

See, they'd like to clarify yesterday's announcement that the game was "exclusive" to the PS3. It's not. There'll also be a PC version. Following that, however, a carefully-worded statement said "in terms of all other hardware, including Microsoft consoles, we are considering all other options at this time".

Source
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FF14 will probably be timed exclusive. PC is never included when anyone says exclusive. I think they just mean exclusive to consoles.
 
In other words it's console exclusive. I couldn't care less about FF anything. ;)

Rockstar North's new game Agent being PS3 exclusive is a stunning development though. The concept sounds incredible. GTA like sandbox game except with an espionage, cold war theme. I think I read something about locations all over the world.

Imagine working for the CIA in East Berlin. Or doing an assassination mission for the KGB in Washington. All in an updated improved GTA 4 engine with Rockstar's production quality and voice talent ?

The game sounds more amazing than I can imagine. :D
 
Rash said:
why should it be cheaper with a smaller screen, surely it can cost more to pack the same amount of pixels into a smaller screen
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they also have to retool for the new design and get a new source for lcd screens in the 3.8 inch size...
 
Technoob said:
You obviously don't understand the tech if you think natal = eyetoy. Hint, 2 cameras =/= 1 camera.
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I didn't say they were equal. I just said that until I see decent support and a lineup of games---=Natal is a proof of concept used as a marketing ploy to drum supoort for the MS brand.

People seemed to eat that Natal shit up, so if they can make devs bite and do something with it besides punch a guy in the face for reals, then hey great. But they need dev support, they need real games to make a successful product.

Until then though, I can't get behind it because other similar products have failed to be supported. Sony tried pretty hard and has seen two generations of the Eyetoy. The Eyetoy is a very well realized product, but it has withered away due to almost zero real games and gimmicky support in a couple of other games.

Spaceman_Spiff said:
I'm saying that any comparable product, from any company, has to cost less than an ipod made by apple, even if they are comparable on paper. Simply because its apple and ipod, and you pay more for both. Not saying its right, but that's how it always has been. Lots of companies have come out with products with the same features and then some at lower prices that haven't been as successful. Branding, marketing, itunes, image, etc can't really be overlooked.
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Do you know how much most PMP devices cost? Especially ones with Ipod touch equivalency? Apple or not, PMP devices are an expensive/premium market segment. A 16GB or more PMP device with a 3 inch or larger screen is going to cost you about $250 minimum. Make that an OLED screen and its even more. Make that an OLED touch screen and its EVEN more. The PSP Go is very competitively priced, maybe even a bargain, considering its feature set and the PMP market. Problem is, how is SONY going to market this thing? because typically the Playstation brand is for the gaming market and Walkman is currently in the PMP market, Releasing a $300 Ipod touch alike this month.

I think its funny that people blindly cite the smaller screen as a negative. Of course its smaller. The PSP's screen is HUGE. The screen HAD to shrink to make the overall unit more portable, which was a big problem for PSP. Its portable, but not nicely portable. The GO's screen is still quite big and will actually appear richer/crisper next to an old PSP due to its pixels being more tightly packed. And the PSP GO is pretty nicely portable.

Spaceman_Spiff said:
My question is, though, if 2 devices were the same price and had the same features, but one said apple ipod and the other was any other brand, which would sell more? History has clearly shown the ipod trounces other similar devices even when they have more features.
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This is only the case in America. Apple got damn lucky, is all. The U.S. mobile market has always lagged behind everyone else in features. Appled slicked up a phone that appeared to be a revolution in features. For the U.S. it is a very nice phone with some of the best features. Go to a REAL mobile market (Korea, Japan) and you can barely literally GIVE Iphones away. People don't want them because they are expensive and comparatively, have very few features.
 
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