Sony still working with the FTC to stop the Microsoft Activision merger.

[Lakados]

https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ft...softs_motion_to_certify_public_redacted_1.pdf

TLDR;
Sony keeps putting forward BS claims with BS paperwork behind it filled with bad math and cherry-picked examples.
Microsoft is tired of playing and is directing the courts to require Sony to submit the real numbers as well as email chains from the Sony executives that contain any relation to the merger or the FTC proceedings.

 

[1_rick]

To nitpick a little, Microsoft can't direct Sony to do anything; what they can do is to request the court to do so.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

They have to try. Though to give Microsoft some credit here, it's fairly obvious that Sony is just trying to stall things and be annoying rather than have any real case.

 

[westrock2000]

I keep hearing that Sony is the dominator in console sales. Isn’t it usually the little guy that says he is the victim?

 

[vegeta535]

I keep hearing that Sony is the dominator in console sales. Isn’t it usually the little guy that says he is the victim?

As a company Sony is the little guy. MS is buying up all the big developers.

 

[HeadRusch]

Hail Mary kind of play going on here, WestRock2k, if Sony suddenly bought-out Rockstar Games, Microsoft would be playing all the same cards, showing up to court looking like they were homeless, showing pictures of Microsoft Headquarters "CLEARANCE SALE GOING OUT OF BUSINESS!" signs, pictures of kids starving to death on Seattle streets......etc, etc.....

 

[Flogger23m]

As a company Sony is the little guy. MS is buying up all the big developers.

More or less. I understand that is business, but Sony built up their brand and handled things better. Although Microsoft did have some better features in the previous Xbox gen if I recall (1440 support?). Yeah Sony bought some studios, but it was after working with them heavily for a number of games typically. Microsoft is just going around and buying up studios. Historically it hasn't worked too well for Microsoft, see Halo.

I can see the situation flip if all of a sudden Bethesda, Activision or 2K were suddenly all owned by Microsoft.

Best case for Sony is to offer some exclusives as a trade, but this only makes sense for single player games. For example, after 3 or so years Sony ports Horizon Forbidden West to Xbox and Microsoft ports Outer Worlds 2 or Starfield.

 

[vegeta535]

More or less. I understand that is business, but Sony built up their brand and handled things better. Although Microsoft did have some better features in the previous Xbox gen if I recall (1440 support?). Yeah Sony bought some studios, but it was after working with them heavily for a number of games typically. Microsoft is just going around and buying up studios. Historically it hasn't worked too well for Microsoft, see Halo.

I can see the situation flip if all of a sudden Bethesda, Activision or 2K were suddenly all owned by Microsoft.

Best case for Sony is to offer some exclusives as a trade, but this only makes sense for single player games. For example, after 3 or so years Sony ports Horizon Forbidden West to Xbox and Microsoft ports Outer Worlds 2 or Starfield.

Not a fair trade TBH. MS has nothing of value to trade exclusive wise.

 

[GotNoRice]

This really all says much more about Sony than Microsoft or Blizzard at this point.

 

[Armenius]

As a company Sony is the little guy. MS is buying up all the big developers.

And yet Microsoft still can't make a dent in PlayStation 5 console sales.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

More or less. I understand that is business, but Sony built up their brand and handled things better. Although Microsoft did have some better features in the previous Xbox gen if I recall (1440 support?). Yeah Sony bought some studios, but it was after working with them heavily for a number of games typically. Microsoft is just going around and buying up studios. Historically it hasn't worked too well for Microsoft, see Halo.

I can see the situation flip if all of a sudden Bethesda, Activision or 2K were suddenly all owned by Microsoft.

Best case for Sony is to offer some exclusives as a trade, but this only makes sense for single player games. For example, after 3 or so years Sony ports Horizon Forbidden West to Xbox and Microsoft ports Outer Worlds 2 or Starfield.

I more or less now consider all titles owned by Bethesda to be dead (well, felt that way for at least 15 years), and also everything owned by Activision dead (see Blizzard) and now everything owned by Microsoft to be dead. There is an incredibly small slice of light here in the form of id Software, which to this point has managed to not produce garbage. However id used to be a bastion of alternative OS's and open development and obviously both of those things have been chopped off as soon as they were acquired. Still at least they're producing games people like. Everyone else though (even including Arkane and Obsidian) are basically dying on the vine.

I have zero faith that Microsoft will pilot any of these studios to a better non-toxic state. I expect that all of these studios will start churning out mass market trash, almost immediately.

Not a fair trade TBH. MS has nothing of value to trade exclusive wise.

I mean... they did. But people need to start realizing that franchise games are "worthless". Each title needs to be evaluated on its individual merits.
Now that Microsoft owns pretty much everything, they could offer: Overwatch 2, Diablo 4, Doom next, Wolfenstein next, Arkane title next, Obsidian title next, Elder Scrolls 6, CoD (which they have to anyway because of the court orders for the merger), Senua's next, Halo next, Tango Gameworks next, etc.

Microsoft now holds a lot of massive IP's that they theoretically can use to stay relevant on console. It's just that PC gaming is increasing and every Microsoft game lands on PC... which ironically is really what I think prevents XBox from being competitive. If streaming/Gamepass becomes big, then there really will be no reason to use Microsoft hardware.

This really all says much more about Sony than Microsoft or Blizzard at this point.

It's just the way the game is played.

 

[Flogger23m]

I more or less now consider all titles owned by Bethesda to be dead (well, felt that way for at least 15 years), and also everything owned by Activision dead (see Blizzard) and now everything owned by Microsoft to be dead.

That is a fair opinion, but Sony claims something like 1 million Playstation gamers essentially only play Call of Duty. That is a big deal. Actually, a massive deal. Those gamers will likely end up buying an Xbox, and drop their Sony online subscription once they move onto the next Call of Duty on Xbox.

In 2021, over [14?] million users (by device) spent 30 percent or more of their time playing Call of Duty, over 6 million users spent more than 70% of their time on Call of Duty, and about 1 million users spent 100% of their gaming time on Call of Duty. In 2021, Call of Duty players spent an average of [116?] hours per year playing Call of Duty. Call of Duty players spending more than 70 percent of their time on Call of Duty spent an average of 296 hours on the franchise.

Over 6 million customers spent 70% of their time in Call of Duty. If Call of Duty moves to Xbox only, there is a big change a large portion of those extra 6 million games become Xbox only customers. And that is just one game.

Everyone else though (even including Arkane and Obsidian) are basically dying on the vine.

I liked Outer Worlds. I think Obsidian is going to do okay. Arkane seems to be in trouble.

I have zero faith that Microsoft will pilot any of these studios to a better non-toxic state. I expect that all of these studios will start churning out mass market trash, almost immediately.

I agree. I think we'll see more Halos. Not awful, but certainly dated, a has been, that is passable but everyone remembers how much more relevant the series used to be.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

That is a fair opinion, but Sony claims something like 1 million Playstation gamers essentially only play Call of Duty. That is a big deal. Actually, a massive deal. Those gamers will likely end up buying an Xbox, and drop their Sony online subscription once they move onto the next Call of Duty on Xbox.



Over 6 million customers spent 70% of their time in Call of Duty. If Call of Duty moves to Xbox only, there is a big change a large portion of those extra 6 million games become Xbox only customers. And that is just one game.

Microsoft already have to as part of the terms of the merger agreement.

Granted if you ask me, if Sony is smart they'll spin up a dev whose only purpose is to make a first part shooter game that is a direct competitor to CoD, so that in 15 years or whatever it is, they're not caught with any form of surprise.

I liked Outer Worlds. I think Obsidian is going to do okay. Arkane seems to be in trouble.

All of this comes down to both leadership inside of each of these teams and publisher decisions. I don't have faith in Microsoft to do either of those things well. Obsidian has had good leadership, but the issue there is, for how long? Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky, and Chris Avellone do not have to be tied to any single dev if they don't want to.

I agree. I think we'll see more Halos. Not awful, but certainly dated, a has been, that is passable but everyone remembers how much more relevant the series used to be.

You're very kind. I also think a bit naive. Microsoft isn't about to spend the most money ever spent on a merger to not get ROI. And though they are finally putting their money where their mouth is, they cannot go negative money forever.

 

[1_rick]

now everything owned by Microsoft to be dead.

Mojang has entered the chat!

MS has done basically two obnoxious things to Java Minecraft: forcing people to use Microsoft accounts and whining that YOU MAY NOT BE SAFE if you play modded.

 

[DukenukemX]

This really all says much more about Sony than Microsoft or Blizzard at this point.

All I see is a bunch of wealthy corporations pushing their money into places that they have no business. Instead of Microsoft trying to make a better console, they're trying to get exclusives. Part of me wants Microsoft to buy up Activision Blizzard because Bobby Kotick ruined them, but part of me knows that Microsoft will just make things worse.

I have zero faith that Microsoft will pilot any of these studios to a better non-toxic state. I expect that all of these studios will start churning out mass market trash, almost immediately.

Microsoft is trying to drown Playstations exclusives with their own. On top of that, don't expect sequels as Microsoft would want them to focus on new IPs. Not only is Microsoft taking away games from Playstation, but giving themselves unique new games that Playstation users can't have.

I liked Outer Worlds. I think Obsidian is going to do okay. Arkane seems to be in trouble.

Personally I hated Outer Worlds but to each their own.

Mojang has entered the chat!

MS has done basically two obnoxious things to Java Minecraft: forcing people to use Microsoft accounts and whining that YOU MAY NOT BE SAFE if you play modded.

Don't forget Rare with Banjo Kazooie nuts and bolts. Halo as well, since after Halo 3 the series hasn't done well.

 

[wizzi01]

All I see is a bunch of wealthy corporations pushing their money into places that they have no business. Instead of Microsoft trying to make a better console, they're trying to get exclusives. Part of me wants Microsoft to buy up Activision Blizzard because Bobby Kotick ruined them, but part of me knows that Microsoft will just make things worse.

Microsoft is trying to drown Playstations exclusives with their own. On top of that, don't expect sequels as Microsoft would want them to focus on new IPs. Not only is Microsoft taking away games from Playstation, but giving themselves unique new games that Playstation users can't have.

Personally I hated Outer Worlds but to each their own.

Don't forget Rare with Banjo Kazooie nuts and bolts. Halo as well, since after Halo 3 the series hasn't done well.

The merger is already done and Kotick resigned on the 20th with a leave date of yesterday the 29th.

 

[Derangel]

Granted if you ask me, if Sony is smart they'll spin up a dev whose only purpose is to make a first part shooter game that is a direct competitor to CoD, so that in 15 years or whatever it is, they're not caught with any form of surprise.

All of this comes down to both leadership inside of each of these teams and publisher decisions. I don't have faith in Microsoft to do either of those things well. Obsidian has had good leadership, but the issue there is, for how long? Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky, and Chris Avellone do not have to be tied to any single dev if they don't want to.

You're very kind. I also think a bit naive. Microsoft isn't about to spend the most money ever spent on a merger to not get ROI. And though they are finally putting their money where their mouth is, they cannot go negative money forever.

Sony has tried making a CoD competitor......Twice. Both Resistance and KillZone failed to take over the CoD market and both IPs are dead and gone. There's really very little chance of anyone making a CoD replacement any time before CoD itself dies out.

MS recently did some pretty major shakeups across the Xbox division and in some of their studios, so hopefully they've put some good people in positions where they're able to get things back on track. I'm not exactly holding my breath on that though.

As long as CoD sales keep breaking records and King's mobile bullshit keep raking in money hand over fist, MS is going to make a profit on this merger relatively quickly. I don't really think owning CoD is going to prevent MS from doing other shooters. The market is large enough to support multiple games and MS would be foolish not to try to get as much of it as they can, even if means having a couple franchises going on. Keep pumping out CoD yearly as long as it keeps making money while making something like Halo or Gears a once every 3-4 years series.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

I mostly agree with all of this. Just that it's not as if Sony should stop trying to make FPS games though. That's been, like all of the Microsoft things, publisher/developer issues. If they simply made a taught, focused FPS game, it would do well... well eventually anyway.

Sony has tried making a CoD competitor......Twice. Both Resistance and KillZone failed to take over the CoD market and both IPs are dead and gone. There's really very little chance of anyone making a CoD replacement any time before CoD itself dies out.

Killzone and Resistance both were too try hard and ironically at the same time didn't do well at the story elements they were attempting. Though I'd say they were both more Gears of War competitors than specifically CoD competitors. Especially considering the content of the titles.
Anyway, that is to say, I don't think that CoD's formula can't be duplicated. A dev simply hasn't had the vision and the guidance to ruthlessly make a balanced multiplayer FPS (and nothing else) on behalf of Sony.

MS recently did some pretty major shakeups across the Xbox division and in some of their studios, so hopefully they've put some good people in positions where they're able to get things back on track. I'm not exactly holding my breath on that though.

As long as CoD sales keep breaking records and King's mobile bullshit keep raking in money hand over fist, MS is going to make a profit on this merger relatively quickly. I don't really think owning CoD is going to prevent MS from doing other shooters. The market is large enough to support multiple games and MS would be foolish not to try to get as much of it as they can, even if means having a couple franchises going on. Keep pumping out CoD yearly as long as it keeps making money while making something like Halo or Gears a once every 3-4 years series.

22 Billion is a lot of money.

Activision's net revenue for 2022 was $7.5 billion, their operating income was $1.7 billion. And their operating income was down 50% from the year prior, $3.3 billion.
This is per Activision-Blizzard's public annual income statements: https://investor.activision.com/static-files/01d1f04d-1c00-4a17-8743-4e6a20e17335

If they can make the exact amount of money in 2022 for every following year, it would still take them more than 12 years to break even. If we pay attention to the downward trend from 2021 to 2022 (and that it could get worse), then it will take even longer. There is some irony that Activision-Blizzard was definitely looking for a buyer, because it was obvious their price had peaked and likely would only have a downward trend from 2021. Multiple titles didn't perform at expectation. Issues with unionization. And all of the sexual harassment/strike issues definitely didn't help.

While I do expect that some of this will be easy to "recoup", eg: I expect Bobby Kotick to get the boot and if Microsoft is smart they'll slash publisher executive pay, that's still a lot of money to have to get back. I definitely do not think that this will be easy. Especially considering Microsoft hasn't been able to get their other previous developer acquisitions to perform. Certainly not like Sony has. (Bungie, Rare, to name but two. Ninja Theory seems to be doing better though).

 

[Flogger23m]

You're very kind. I also think a bit naive. Microsoft isn't about to spend the most money ever spent on a merger to not get ROI. And though they are finally putting their money where their mouth is, they cannot go negative money forever.

I'm going off of their past releases/history. They can more or less keep making less relevant versions of games that others made years prior. Halo, Gears, Forza. Their current iterations are not awful but nowhere near what the originals were.

Sony has tried making a CoD competitor......Twice. Both Resistance and KillZone failed to take over the CoD market and both IPs are dead and gone. There's really very little chance of anyone making a CoD replacement any time before CoD itself dies out.

Neither of those games were a CoD competitor. Unless you count simply being an FPS as a competitor.

Sony is trying to make some online games though. Generally these will have a hard time going up against a game on all 3 platforms now that cross play is industry standard, but I think they can make it work. If the games are worth playing.