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Some semi-basic questions about overclocking

H

Hickeroar

n00b
Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
21
I kinda asked this in the overclocking forum, but I thought i'd repost it in here and be a bit clearer in my question:

I've done some overclocking in the past but it's been a while, so I need a bit of a refresher.

I'm building an E6300 Core 2 Duo system for overclocking/gaming. It'll have 1gb x 2 of Corsair XM2 DDR2 800 ram.

Anandtech used this CPU and got the FSB up to 370mhz (from 266) on stock cooling and had a stable system at 2.59ghz. I'm getting a cooler that's a bit better than stock and a fan-full case, but I'd basically just like to get what they did to keep the ram stable at such a high FSB speed. I told myself beforehand if I got between 2.5 and 2.6ghz, I'd be happy so a 370mhz FSB is perfect. The thing is, they didn't provide any information on what they did to the ram speed to keep the system stable.

My question is regarding that very idea. I really don't know how the FSB relates directly, or indirectly, (or whatever) to ram speed. What can you do with a 266mhz fsb that will yield the DDR2 ram speed of 800mhz...or is that just a NUMBER not really meaning 800mhz? If I have the ram in my system set up at its default settings and then I push the FSB to 370mhz, what will that do to the ram speed? I don't have much faith in ram staying stable much past its default clock.

I don't really have any desire to overclock the ram. I'd rather that IT just stayed stock speed and if I want to mess with it later, I can do it then. Right now I'm just concerned with the CPU speed.

Can anyone offer a good explanation or a link to one? Thanks for any help you can give!

My newegg wishlist: https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.asp?ID=4304932
 
rysher said:
all you have to do is increase the FSB.
Click to expand...


Not really. Before overclocking, disable any feature in the Bios that could cause the processor to not run at its full performance (eg, Vanderpool technology).

Set the default RAM speed at 533mhz, as overclocking the FSB will consequently raise the frequency of the RAM.

Make sure the PCI frequency is locked at 33.33mhz, and the PCI-E frequency is locked at 100. (To "lock" it, just set the frequency manually, rather than leaving it at "auto".

Set the memory voltage to 2.2V.

Set the CPU voltage to 1.4V, or a bit more if you notice stability issues at high FSBs (when approaching 500). Make sure the voltage is NOT SET TO AUTO. Otherwise, the voltage will increase to dangerous levels at higher frequencies.

And finally, raise the FSB.

Edit: Setting the divider at 1:2 (default RAM freq. at 533mhz), you will be able to raise the FSB to 400, so the memory will run at default speeds. This being said, your memory is made to push higher frequencies. You shouldnt have any issues reaching 950mhz at 2.2V
 
rysher said:
all you have to do is increase the FSB.
Click to expand...

You must have one of those motherboards from the future that OC themselves. Who did you have to suck off to get that one. Come on give Hickeroar some real advise.
 
jfespinoza said:
You must have one of those motherboards from the future that OC themselves. Who did you have to suck off to get that one. Come on give Hickeroar some real advise.
Click to expand...
Um, that used to be the way, so it'd be a mobo from the past....

-bZj
 
Down8 said:
Um, that used to be the way, so it'd be a mobo from the past....

-bZj
Click to expand...

Well, it CAN be that way today, but you're only going to get so far. When you change the FSB speed, lots of things change. If you don't take the rest into account, you're going to end up with a lower overclock and possibly a less stable system
 
DuffMan72 said:
Not really. Before overclocking, disable any feature in the Bios that could cause the processor to not run at its full performance (eg, Vanderpool technology).

Set the default RAM speed at 533mhz, as overclocking the FSB will consequently raise the frequency of the RAM.

Make sure the PCI frequency is locked at 33.33mhz, and the PCI-E frequency is locked at 100. (To "lock" it, just set the frequency manually, rather than leaving it at "auto".

Set the memory voltage to 2.2V.

Set the CPU voltage to 1.4V, or a bit more if you notice stability issues at high FSBs (when approaching 500). Make sure the voltage is NOT SET TO AUTO. Otherwise, the voltage will increase to dangerous levels at higher frequencies.

And finally, raise the FSB.

Edit: Setting the divider at 1:2 (default RAM freq. at 533mhz), you will be able to raise the FSB to 400, so the memory will run at default speeds. This being said, your memory is made to push higher frequencies. You shouldnt have any issues reaching 950mhz at 2.2V
Click to expand...
That's too extreme for him. He just wants a 2.6Gh OC and that is EASY for a C2D.

Don't set the CPU voltage to 1.4v. Don't set the RAM volt to 2.2v.
My E6300 with gigabyte DS3 runs at 2800Mhz (400Mhz FSB) at stock voltages and it runs orthos stable for 24+ hours straight. My RAM is at 2.2v running at 4-4-4-10.

Go to google.com and search for "E6300 overclocking guide". Look for a guide by tomshardware.com

Look at what they disable in their bios. Do the same thing.

Next, set the FSB to 400mhz and add +1v to the RAM. See if it boots into windows. If it does, run orthos and see if it's stable. Check your temps often and make sure they don't go over 65c. If they do, reduce the FSB.

If it doesn't boot into Windows, add the next volt level to the CPU. Keep adding until you boot into Windows(I believe it will boot at stock volts so don't worry ;) ).

Next, you want to tweak your memory settings. Set the memory timings lower and lower while adding volts. Note: don't go below 4-4-4-10 timings and don't go above 2.2v

Good luck, it'll be easy.
 
SentToSchool said:
That's too extreme for him. He just wants a 2.6Gh OC and that is EASY for a C2D.

Don't set the CPU voltage to 1.4v. Don't set the RAM volt to 2.2v.
My E6300 with gigabyte DS3 runs at 2800Mhz (400Mhz FSB) at stock voltages and it runs orthos stable for 24+ hours straight. My RAM is at 2.2v running at 4-4-4-10.

Go to google.com and search for "E6300 overclocking guide". Look for a guide by tomshardware.com

Look at what they disable in their bios. Do the same thing.

Next, set the FSB to 400mhz and add +1v to the RAM. See if it boots into windows. If it does, run orthos and see if it's stable. Check your temps often and make sure they don't go over 65c. If they do, reduce the FSB.

If it doesn't boot into Windows, add the next volt level to the CPU. Keep adding until you boot into Windows(I believe it will boot at stock volts so don't worry ;) ).

Next, you want to tweak your memory settings. Set the memory timings lower and lower while adding volts. Note: don't go below 4-4-4-10 timings and don't go above 2.2v

Good luck, it'll be easy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info :)

I downloaded the manual for the mobo I'm getting and they have a REALLY slick clocking screen. You can adjust everything you want right on one page. Memory clock ratio, voltage, FSB speed, cpu voltage, and everything else important. MSI P965 Platinum manual page #59 if you're interested.
 
jfespinoza said:
You must have one of those motherboards from the future that OC themselves. Who did you have to suck off to get that one. Come on give Hickeroar some real advise.
Click to expand...

compute the overclock urself.
he has a e6300, whats the speed of that? whats the multiplier?
he has an 800 ram,whats the freq on the ram? can he raise the fsb ALONE w/o raising the memory freq? ddr2 800, especially his choice of ram, is capable of 30-40mhgz overclock at 1:1.
ur memory REAL speed is 400mhz, it is 400/800= DDR2 8000-- pc2 6400, they are all the same. the real freq of ur memory is 400mhz.
to get speed of ur cpu, is 1.8ghz divide by the multiplier which is 7= 266mhz. so now real speeds are: cpu=266, memory=400. at stock settings ur cpu is running at 266mhz while ur memory is running at 400mhz.
266mhz = 400 mhz, see the diffrence? 140mhz is the diffrence ur memory is capable to stay at stcok while cpu freq is raise.
JUST RAISED THE FSB.

"suck off to get the motherboard of the future" idiot.
 
rysher said:
compute the overclock urself.
he has a e6300, whats the speed of that? whats the multiplier?
he has an 800 ram,whats the freq on the ram? can he raise the fsb ALONE w/o raising the memory freq? ddr2 800, especially his choice of ram, is capable of 30-40mhgz overclock at 1:1.
ur memory REAL speed is 400mhz, it is 400/800= DDR2 8000-- pc2 6400, they are all the same. the real freq of ur memory is 400mhz.
to get speed of ur cpu, is 1.8ghz divide by the multiplier which is 7= 266mhz. so now real speeds are: cpu=266, memory=400. at stock settings ur cpu is running at 266mhz while ur memory is running at 400mhz.
266mhz = 400 mhz, see the diffrence? 140mhz is the diffrence ur memory is capable to stay at stcok while cpu freq is raise.
JUST RAISED THE FSB.

"suck off to get the motherboard of the future" idiot.
Click to expand...

That's not all there is to it. If you raise the FSB, you raise the ram speed. Generally ram is less forgiving than CPUs are as far as overclocking goes. The ram will be a limiter in this equation. Right now the ram speed is at a 1:1.5 ratio with the fsb/cpu speed.

I'm going to change that to 1:1.

This way I can get a 400mhz fsb, the ram will stay at stock clock, and I can get my CPU to run at 2800mhz. (400x7) People are doing this with stock cooling all over the place.
 
Hickeroar said:
That's not all there is to it. If you raise the FSB, you raise the ram speed. Generally ram is less forgiving than CPUs are as far as overclocking goes. The ram will be a limiter in this equation. Right now the ram speed is at a 1:1.5 ratio with the fsb/cpu speed.

I'm going to change that to 1:1.

This way I can get a 400mhz fsb, the ram will stay at stock speed, and I can get my CPU to run at 2800mhz. (400x7) People are doing this with stock cooling all over the place.
Click to expand...

YES!! when u raise the FSB u also raise the RAM speed.
BUT! BUT! BUT! ur RAM speed is running at 400mhz while FSB is at 266mhz. raising ur FSb to 270 mhz aint gonna raise ur RAM speed to 404mhz.

it is only applicable when ur memory has no extra mhz on it. Say, ur memory is 266mhz, and ur cpu is at 266 also. then when raising cpu to 270mhz it also raises the memory speed to 270mhz, because ur memory has no headroom for the extra mhz.

that's what i said 1:1 so it'd be 266:400


 
rysher said:
YES!! when u raise the FSB u also raise the RAM speed.
BUT! BUT! BUT! ur RAM speed is running at 400mhz while FSB is at 266mhz. raising ur FSb to 270 mhz aint gonna raise ur RAM speed to 404mhz.

it is only applicable when ur memory has no extra mhz on it. Say, ur memory is 266mhz, and ur cpu is at 266 also. then when raising cpu to 270mhz it also raises the memory speed to 270mhz, because ur memory has no headroom for the extra mhz.

that's what i said 1:1 so it'd be 266:400
Click to expand...

The more you talk, the less I think you actually get any of this. If your fsb:ram is 266:400 and you raise the FSB to 400, your ram speed is going to be bumped to 600... If you set it to 1:1, your ram will be back to 400mhz which will then MATCH your FSB...

266:400 is basically 1:1.5
 
Its terrifying these days how many people on forums are just wading blind into things they really dont understand armed with Google links and massive overconfidence. PLEASE take the time to actually LEARN something about computers in general before tweaking BIOS settings with notes from Anand.

Hickeroar is of course right. Ratio is extremely important when playing with FSB changes. Its so basic its amazing, but its out of scope for a thread like this. All I can say is the info is out there if you have some patience and learn what these terms mean and how these subsystems really interoperate.

I mean the ratio thing is just math! 266:400 is obviously not 1:1
 
mlambert890 said:
Its terrifying these days how many people on forums are just wading blind into things they really dont understand armed with Google links and massive overconfidence. PLEASE take the time to actually LEARN something about computers in general before tweaking BIOS settings with notes from Anand.

Hickeroar is of course right. Ratio is extremely important when playing with FSB changes. Its so basic its amazing, but its out of scope for a thread like this. All I can say is the info is out there if you have some patience and learn what these terms mean and how these subsystems really interoperate.

I mean the ratio thing is just math! 266:400 is obviously not 1:1
Click to expand...

Thanks :)
 
What I really liked back in the day was eclipse's "step-by-step guide to A64 overclocking". It gave a pretty easy way to find the max of the board, mem and last CPU and then when putting it all together it was easy to know where the absolute limits were. Wouldn't it be nice if such a guide existed for Intel?
 
drizzt81 said:
What I really liked back in the day was eclipse's "step-by-step guide to A64 overclocking". It gave a pretty easy way to find the max of the board, mem and last CPU and then when putting it all together it was easy to know where the absolute limits were. Wouldn't it be nice if such a guide existed for Intel?
Click to expand...

Anyone with some patience doesn't need such a guide. Now that I understand how this all works it's going to be easy to get the maximum out of my system.
 
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