Some questions for Network Engineers

ibex333

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 30, 2007
Messages
1,119
I am currently majoring in Data Communications in college and hoping to work as a Network Engineer in the future. I didn't really have any classes yet that specifically deal with networks, but I'd like to get a head start and read some books, learn some software, etc. The problem is, I don't want to waste my time learning things I will not use. I need to know exactly what is it that I will be dealing with at work every day.

If any of you guys already work in this field, can you recommend me some books to read, and some software I should learn?
 
The two above posts are pretty much dead-on. A CCNA is pretty much required to get near any networking gear and nothing trumps experience. ;)

Perhaps if you're looking for a bit more of a primer you could start with Network+
 
CCNA, and download GNS, get someone to get you a IOS for a 2600 or a 3600.

While there are many different types of networking equipment you can stand in the middle of a datacenter, whip it out, start taking a piss while turning in a 360 degree circle and probaby hit multiple pieces of Cisco equipment.

Principles covered in the CCNA also cover all the major manufacturers with just changes in commands for the most part (Juniper, HP, Foundry, etc).

CCNA Security is also a great read as it covers all 4 realms of cisconess (network, security, wireless, voip).
 
+1 on ICND courses and CCNA training... CBT Nuggets are decent for a starting point as well.

Good luck on not learning stuff you won't apply in the real world though... All vendor's certifications are loaded with stuff that rarely get used in the "real-world". But, having knowledge of it is not necessarily a bad thing. Technology gets reused often in the networking world so concepts you thought were long gone often spring up again in a slightly different form.

Also an individual's concept of what they perceive as "real-world" varies greatly. Someone that has worked in the service-provider environment for 15 years is going to have a very different idea of that than say someone that has been doing SOHO networks during the same period of time. Neither one is more right than the other though. For this reason I try not to say "solution X is best" or "solution X is always better than solution Y" because rarely does one size fit all.

I've probably learned and relearned QoS and OSPF a half-dozen times now for instance, but nowhere I have ever worked had them running on my networks. That doesn't mean they are any less relevant or that I can completely ignore them.
 
I don't want to waste my time learning things I will not use. I need to know exactly what is it that I will be dealing with at work every day.
This is an impossible question to answer.

How do we know what programs/equipment your future job will be running. Maybe you'll work at a Cisco shop, maybe Juniper. Maybe HP Procurves. Similar yes, but according to you learning Cisco while working at a Juniper job would be "things you won't use"

Maybe you'll go to work at a telecommunications job which uses Wireless/RF communication.

Don't look at learning things as a waste of time even though you think you might not use it in the future. I guarantee some day it will all come up. It's easier to re-learn something than it is to start from scratch. Especially when your on a deadline.
 
I've probably learned and relearned QoS and OSPF a half-dozen times now for instance, but nowhere I have ever worked had them running on my networks. That doesn't mean they are any less relevant or that I can completely ignore them.

You've never worked with QoS or OSPF in a business environment?
 
Nope. Just in labs and for certs. I've spent most of my career working on classified gov't networks for various agencies. Some places had pockets of OSPF for specific portions of the network, just not the portion I was concerned with. I've never had to worry about voice on my networks either. I've worked at places with thousands of static routes, nothing dynamic at all... good times.

I've actually had to manually trace a 15+ hop statically routed network from coast to coast before using RFC 1918 addressed networks. It's excruciating but you really get good at it after a while. Using something like traceroute was a pipe-dream.

My latest customer uses EIGRP though since I built it out personally. They had been planning to do all routing via statics though, ugh. I had to convince them they wanted to do dynamic routing for um... "load balancing reasons".
 
We're essentially a native Cisco shop. We only have 2 sites with 2 dedicated OC-3s between them which are identically configured for the most part. No reason to make things more complicated than they need to be.
 
I'm just not a fan of EIGRP. I don't like the idea of locking into Cisco. And OSPF is mad cool y0.

(done jacking the thread now, sorry)
 
I'm just not a fan of EIGRP. I don't like the idea of locking into Cisco. And OSPF is mad cool y0.

(done jacking the thread now, sorry)

I keep hear this conversation play over in my head like a broken record. I don't like eigrp.. I don't like eigrp

Anyways.. Apologies for thread jacking myself.
 
Nope. Just in labs and for certs. I've spent most of my career working on classified gov't networks for various agencies. Some places had pockets of OSPF for specific portions of the network, just not the portion I was concerned with. I've never had to worry about voice on my networks either. I've worked at places with thousands of static routes, nothing dynamic at all... good times.
My turn for some thread jackage, but im seriously surprised that you haven't run into a red/black network that doesn't use a dynamic routing protocols. Every single semi-large network ive had the unfortunate pleasure of working on has run a drp.

anyways, to the OP... you're going to need to learn things that you wont ever use so you can build out your communications network properly, not at an extremely low level but generally you must know the basics.

Where I would start, as Vito recommended, ICDN1.
 
I am a programming major but I was really into networking for a while and I got the CBT nuggets for the CCENT/CCNA and they were great videos. I would also suggest making friends with someone in the CCNA course and grab their pdf's for packet tracer, I enjoyed those labs.
 
Thanks for the info guys.... I will get these books you speak of.

About the internship... Can anyone give me some advice on how I should go about getting one?

The problem is I'm 28 years old, yet I never really had a "REAL JOB". Sure, I worked a little in a video store, I helped around in a medical office and got paid for that.. Then I worked for a while in my college as a "workstudy", which I am still doing atm, but I never really had a computer job, at least not in an office setting. I fixed plenty of computers from home, I even went to some addresses to fix computers for various people "on site". But I cant really put this on the resume because I don't see myself calling these people and asking them for recommendations or anything like that. (not to mention basic computer troubleshooting has nothing to do with what Network engineers do)

I am willing to work for free as long as I can get some experience for my resume, but I live in NYC, a cutthroat city, where most of the time people wont deal with an IT guy with less than 5 years experience and a Master's degree. What can I do in my situation? How do I write my resume, so that my lack of computer work experience doesn't jump into employer's eyes every time making him want to toss my resume in the garbage bin?

I tried writing a resume from templates, and various examples online, but when I write resumes like this, people at employment agencies just laugh at me, or give me a "pity" smile at best.

Oh, and please don't mind that stuff I said about not wanting to learn things I wont use. I realize this is inevitable.... I guess I just didn't express myself correctly, making it sound like I'm lazy or something, which is not the case at all.
 
Last edited:
My turn for some thread jackage, but im seriously surprised that you haven't run into a red/black network that doesn't use a dynamic routing protocols. Every single semi-large network ive had the unfortunate pleasure of working on has run a drp.

+1, many smaller enclaves use them as well. :cool:
 
About the internship... Can anyone give me some advice on how I should go about getting one?

The best advice I can give you from experience is to first lookup some local data centers in the area. Once you find a few, try to find out who are the Network Engineers or CTOs. Even though you are a complete stranger, introducing yourself in a formal way saying you are greatly interested in computer networking and would like a little bit of his/her time to discuss network engineering in the real world will do wonders for you. You'd be surprised at how well this approach works. This should at least get you an informational interview along with a good contact and possibly an internship if you play your cards right. Another approach is to get into the help desks of one of these data centers. This will give you not only the opportunity to get your foot in the door, but also prove your ambition and work ethic. Last but not least, get your CCNA and possibly CCNP if you that into networking :)
 
All the advice here is spot on, But also don't be afraid to download trial software and play about, get VMWare or what ever you choose and play with Windows Servers, Linux, Unix, etc. It never hurts to do it and break it. Im still learning VoIP systems at home with poor results but i know alot more than when i started as a result :) So plan a network, expand it, migrate it, and break it. Better than any book as its closer to real world!

The courses are also a great option, alot of the content you can almost bin but it never hurts to know it. I've forgotten half the CCNA course cause its all switches, cables and modems, no advanced routers hubs repeaters or god forbid Token Ring networks. But it never hurts incase it comes up in life.

Also with regards to an Internship. I made up a CV and looked up every IT company in the phone book in my local area. Suit on I went round every single one saying that i was only looking for work experience while i was studying. One company got back to me and i then worked there for 3 years. Sometimes it pays to just be upfront saying you have an interest and just want to see the real world.

And finally with regards to a CV, while you may not see any previous jobs as worthwhile look at them objectivly. I had a professional do my CV a while ago and he took loads of stuff from those useless jobs i had done i would never have seen. Its gray areas, such as training new members of staff = new guy in the door i showed him how the tills work. But in interview i was given the responsibility for ensuring the new staff members were proficient in working the various systems to a satisfactory manor. Bended slightly but its not really lying!

Just some tips :)
 
The courses are also a great option, alot of the content you can almost bin but it never hurts to know it. I've forgotten half the CCNA course cause its all switches, cables and modems, no advanced routers hubs repeaters or god forbid Token Ring networks. But it never hurts incase it comes up in life.

Don't know if the old CCNA was different, but the CCNA now has EIGRP, OSPF, VLANs and VTP, Frame Relay, Spanning Tree, some IPv6, and NAT, along with other technologies. If you are going to get into networking and don't know these technologies, you barely stand a chance.

I'm working in networking, I got my foot in the door because I worked on a DSL desk before I started here (standard home user problems), then over time I got my CCNA, and am working towards my CCNP. The place where I am uses all sorts of different technologies, and they have their own BGP AS numbers (about 3 I think) so we get to play with everything. I've only been doing networking specifically for about 2 years, but have come a long way in that time.

So to the OP, you aren't going to go far wrong with Cisco certification, or any vendors tracks, although Cisco are more prevalent in most places so it would make sense to get that one out the way.
 
I've done everything from help desk, to application support, to server administration, to network administration. Every last bit of experience in all the areas comes in handy over time. Grounding yourself into one area of technology/IT is IMHO, not as worthwhile as having a well rounded foundation. It makes you a more effective troubleshooter and problem solver. Becoming an expert at in one area is great, but knowing other areas is invaluable. Learn it all.
 
Grounding yourself into one area of technology/IT is IMHO, not as worthwhile as having a well rounded foundation. It makes you a more effective troubleshooter and problem solver. Becoming an expert at in one area is great, but knowing other areas is invaluable. Learn it all.

I agree with this, to a degree. But it's nearly impossible to be an expert in everything. At the higher levels people are usually very specialized.
 
I'm not really suggesting being an expert in everything. Just saying that experience in other areas helps troubleshooting. You can be a jack of all trades and still be a master in the area you thoroughly enjoy. If anything it helps you decypher the bullshit that the other tech areas spew when sitting in 2 hour long meetings trying to figure out root cause of an issue. ;)

I'm not jaded or anything though :D
 
You can be a jack of all trades and still be a master in the area you thoroughly enjoy. If anything it helps you decypher the bullshit that the other tech areas spew when sitting in 2 hour long meetings trying to figure out root cause of an issue. ;)

Words cannot describe how true this is...

(emphasis is mine)
 
Words cannot describe how true this is...

(emphasis is mine)

Gotta agree, the fact I can do basic to intermediate *nix systems admin on top of being a network guy, means that the wool can't be pulled over my eyes in meetings where I work :D
 
Get your Net+, Security+, Cisco certs and, optionally, Juniper certs. Net+ pretty much gets you in anywhere, and Cisco DOES get you in anywhere.
 
Get your Net+, Security+, Cisco certs and, optionally, Juniper certs. Net+ pretty much gets you in anywhere, and Cisco DOES get you in anywhere.

God no. Net+ is a waste of time if you're going for Cisco certs, and even if you aren't, it's still not great. And I don't know where you're at, but around here a N+ doesn't get you anything.
 
The problem is, I don't want to waste my time learning things I will not use. I need to know exactly what is it that I will be dealing with at work every day.

Are you planning on working in the field for more than 4 years? If so, what you will do will change as well the equipment and tech that powers it.

The term well rounded education is used for a reason... it's teaching you methods and processes - not what command to type.
 
hey ibex333 i saw your post in fs/ft for a corsair 850w psu and i'm interested but i'm a noob and can't believe i have to post 100 times. so i thought if you could contact me we could talk about it. nfimich at that hot mail place
 
*nix is pretty widespread. Anything Unix based also separates the boys from the men IMHO.

...Not that I haven't seen nix admins squirm for days trying to do basic Windows stuff :)

Some things that are basic:

BIND/nsd/Windows DNS
Apache/Nginx/SSL with both
Exchange/Postfix
MySQL/SQL
NFS

I'm inclined to say that if you give it a go with any of the above (save maybe Nginx) you're going to run into them again multiple times and thus will be glad you learned em.
 
hey ibex333 i saw your post in fs/ft for a corsair 850w psu and i'm interested but i'm a noob and can't believe i have to post 100 times. so i thought if you could contact me we could talk about it. nfimich at that hot mail place
wow, you've got a lot to learn about etiquite here. Don't resurrect threads for no reason. You'll get the ban hammer.
 
hey ibex333 i saw your post in fs/ft for a corsair 850w psu and i'm interested but i'm a noob and can't believe i have to post 100 times. so i thought if you could contact me we could talk about it. nfimich at that hot mail place

foad
 
Back
Top