Some general memory questions

[ca$ull]

I realize that the answers to some of these questions are in the stickies, but it would be much faster if a few knowlegeable people could just steer me in the right direction.

I just picked up a s939 3700+ with a DFI nf4 motherboard. I know these will probably OC to rediculous speeds with minimal effort. What I got to go with it was http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231047
I realize now, reading reviews, that these sticks don't reliably OC to more than 215, or at least that seemed to be some people's experience. Overclocking performance may not be that important, though.

My understanding of the A64's memory controller is not that great, so I don't really know whether I want ram that can go to 240-250fsb, ram that can keep tight timings, or whether these sticks will do decently enough.

Once again, I know that I could probably answer this myself with enough reading, but it will take an informed person two minutes to say what my hours of reading may or may not tell me. thanks!

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

My understanding of the A64's memory controller is not that great

the best out there imo...

ram performance has a minimal effect on overall system performance. like 1-3% at most, in real world testing. yes, "faster" ram makes it easier to overclock the cpu, which you will see a difference in performance with, but that's kinda it, unless you're looking to break some records.

how about these?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146578

i know they used to have problems with death, but the ICs have since been changed from 5B D to 5B F. it should overclock to ~260-270mhz at 3-3-3, if not a smidge more.

 

[tightline]

High speed memory is the biggest waste on computers- especially for A64 who prefers low latency anyway. The *only* reason to buy it is if you must stay 1:1, when overclocking, because of strap issues. i.e. Intel.

A64 mem controller is so effcient mem loses nothing using a divider. Use it. Unless you have money burning a hole in your pocket buy cheapest PC3200 ram you can find. Put money in to video and monitor for highest levels of happiness.

Then why is tightline using Ballistix your ask? because it was only $89 and Corsiar value was $80. I'll pay $9 for 2-2-2@200 as opposed to 3-3-3@200, but that's about all I'll pay.

 

[ca$ull]

the best out there imo...

My grammar was correct, I was saying my understanding of it is lacking, not its performance.

ram performance has a minimal effect on overall system performance. like 1-3% at most, in real world testing. yes, "faster" ram makes it easier to overclock the cpu, which you will see a difference in performance with, but that's kinda it, unless you're looking to break some records.

how about these?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146578
I'll check them out, I've used ballistix before in a friend's computer, with impressive results.

i know they used to have problems with death, but the ICs have since been changed from 5B D to 5B F. it should overclock to ~260-270mhz at 3-3-3, if not a smidge more.

I see other people also saying that the revision has been changed, so considering that 2x1gb set is 20$ cheaper than the g.skill I ordered, I'll definitely exchange them.

High speed memory is the biggest waste on computers- especially for A64 who prefers low latency anyway. The *only* reason to buy it is if you must stay 1:1, when overclocking, because of strap issues. i.e. Intel.

A64 mem controller is so effcient mem loses nothing using a divider. Use it. Unless you have money burning a hole in your pocket buy cheapest PC3200 ram you can find. Put money in to video and monitor for highest levels of happiness.
I thought I was remembering something like this. glad to hear it's correct

Then why is tightline using Ballistix your ask? because it was only $89 and Corsiar value was $80. I'll pay $9 for 2-2-2@200 as opposed to 3-3-3@200, but that's about all I'll pay.

Are you saying that the crucial that eclipse linked will do 2-2-2 at 200? obviously it would move up to 3-3-3 if I didn't use a divider and started OC'ing, but I don't see anyone saying it will do those timings, even at 200.

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

oh, i see. i misread!
anyway.. no, the ballistix will most likely not do 2-2-2 at 200mhz. with the older chips they could. the new ones don't like tight timings as much. 2-3-2 might be pushing it. i have a set of cherry picked 5B F, and it's the only 5B F kit in existance that i know of that can do 2-2-2 at 200mhz, and even then, it can only get to 202mhz before needing looser timings. does 297mhz at 3-3-3 though

High speed memory is the biggest waste on computers- especially for A64 who prefers low latency anyway. The *only* reason to buy it is if you must stay 1:1, when overclocking, because of strap issues. i.e. Intel.

A64 mem controller is so effcient mem loses nothing using a divider. Use it. Unless you have money burning a hole in your pocket buy cheapest PC3200 ram you can find. Put money in to video and monitor for highest levels of happiness.

Then why is tightline using Ballistix your ask? because it was only $89 and Corsiar value was $80. I'll pay $9 for 2-2-2@200 as opposed to 3-3-3@200, but that's about all I'll pay.

*whistles*

where to begin?

a64s actually really don't care about memory speed or timings, as i said. however, if i were to pick one or the other, speed always takes the cake. latency is already ungodly low from the IMC.. and higher mhz results in lower latency anyway. 300mhz at 3-3-3 is actually much lower latency overall than 200mhz at 2-2-2.. probably still lower latency than 230-240mhz at 2-2-2..
for the 1:1 comment, i have no idea what you're talking about. there is no real 1:1 with a64 anyway, because the memory controller runs at cpu mhz, there is a divider off the cpu clock that sets the ram speed, usually something like cpu/10

 

[ca$ull]

I guess I'll be picking up that crucial, though the restocking fee will make is as expensive as the g.skill. Oh well, my fault for being hasty. Thanks for the advice.

 

[tightline]

I didnt want his eyes to glosss over when I started explaining how DRAM Clock = CPU Clock / (ceil(CPU Clock Multiplier/Memory Divider)) and how to calculate it.....for simplicaty sake HTT running at same speed as mem is 1:1 even though all mem for a64 uses a divider. And you're wrong about speed vs. timings. 2-2-2@200 beats 3-3-3@250 any day.. try it yourself with winrar..a couple games etc.


ca$ull - I have 2x512 which can run 2-2-2 up to about 210Mhz pretty easy I don't think 2x1Gb can do it but I don't know for sure. More like 2-3-2 is more resonable.. Either way the ballistix (cf)Eclipse recommends is the best bet because it can do both very highspeeds and LL all with low volts, like 2.8.

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

And you're wrong about speed vs. timings. 2-2-2@200 beats 3-3-3@250 any day.. try it yourself with winrar..a couple games etc.

i was talking about 230-240mhz at 2-2-2 vs 300mhz at 3-3-3..
2-2-2 at 200mhz and 3-3-3 at 250mhz are actually almost identical in performance. i don't have my s939 rig up to run benches to prove it, but you can try it if you want..

 

[tightline]

i was talking about 230-240mhz at 2-2-2 vs 300mhz at 3-3-3..
2-2-2 at 200mhz and 3-3-3 at 250mhz are actually almost identical in performance. i don't have my s939 rig up to run benches to prove it, but you can try it if you want..

all@2600Mhz

I've run 290 3-4-3 1t and it finally starts beating 183 2-2-2... But the fastest was 241 2.5-2-2 1T..

Eitherway it's all junk anyway. Videocard & high details high res has a way normalizing mem and CPU's making them not even worth discussion or thier infalted prices.

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

random pic from xbit?

anyway, those results are definitely different than what i get. plus, if 200mhz at 2-2-2 is really faster than 290mhz at 3-4-3, we would have noticed a long time ago, and wouldn't waste the money on more expensive ram.

here's some benches i did with the ddr2 ballistix... timings and speed noticed in the graph

i'll let you draw your own conclusions, but obviously, there is one thing we agree on.. it really means shit to performance in the end

 

[ca$ull]

I didnt want his eyes to glosss over when I started explaining how DRAM Clock = CPU Clock / (ceil(CPU Clock Multiplier/Memory Divider)) and how to calculate it.....for simplicaty sake HTT running at same speed as mem is 1:1 even though all mem for a64 uses a divider. And you're wrong about speed vs. timings. 2-2-2@200 beats 3-3-3@250 any day.. try it yourself with winrar..a couple games etc.


ca$ull - I have 2x512 which can run 2-2-2 up to about 210Mhz pretty easy I don't think 2x1Gb can do it but I don't know for sure. More like 2-3-2 is more resonable.. Either way the ballistix (cf)Eclipse recommends is the best bet because it can do both very highspeeds and LL all with low volts, like 2.8.

I used two of the 512 ballistix modules that will do 2-2-2 in a computer I build for a friend a while back, they were pretty impressive, I remember them holding 2-2-2 up to 210-215. I'm fairly sure the 1gb sticks can't do that, though, even below their rated speeds.
TL;DR: I want at least 2 gigs in this system, so that 2-2-2 is out. Either way, I'll be happy having sticks capable of being accomodating of a fairly high FSB, since I'm looking at 260+ to get the most out of my 3700+.
(excepting the use of a divider, of course)

 

[tightline]

(cf)Eclipse - Video Video Video baby!!! Is how I read it as they flatened out with increasing resolution...That's why I buy best video I can afford which i can feel instantaniously and the rest meh, bang for the buck will do..I would still be using my tbred and PC2700 if mobos supported sli/PCie

ca$ull- And yeah 2GB is only way to fly in new built as a couple games out there alreay go over 1GB and hog Vista is on it's way.