Software Pirate Arraigned In U.S.

[BladeVenom]

What do you mean?

Fair use is a big deal because the RIAA has been claiming that ripping your CDs to MP3 is a violation of fair use. I think they're wrong, but they can afford to get the laws changed. If they get their way you'll have to pay again for every MP3 you've converted from CD.

The DMCA takes away many cases of what use to be Fair Use. Do a google search it's old news.

Example: I bought a DVD, if it's not encypted it's legal to make a copy for personal use; I can make a Divx copy for my laptop. If it's encrypted I can't legally make a copy for my laptop since the DMCA forbids circumventing copy protection, even though fair use says I can make a copy for personal use. The DMCA has taken away rights you use to have.

 

[acidic]

I think people need to step back and look at the situation. Law is supposed to serve the people, not the other way around.If you think the law should be designed to keep the rich rich and the poor poor, that's your prerogative. In my mind there's something wrong when the laws only serve the friends of those who write them.

Are producers and software programmers not 'people'? Their right to intellectual property is being infringed and therefore the government steps in to rectify the problem. And what does 'keeping the rich rich and the poor poor' have to do with anything? Software and media is not a need but a want. The price for their product might be out of your budget, but you don't have to buy it. But pirating a copy because you want it and don't have the means to pay for it is not a justification at all to being exempt from the law.

 

[BladeVenom]

Got a link? Specifically, I'm interested in learning how many times the 99 cent song was copied, if the amount claimed was compensatory or punitive or both, and a few other things.

The $150,000 the RIAA sues for per song is fairly common news. The quantity per song usually doesn't matter. You make one song available to be copied and you can be sued for $150,000 even if it wasn't actually copied. They don't keep track of how many times someone on P2P network has a song copied from them, only how many available. $150,000 per song available is the standard number in the lawsuits they file.

The most famous recent example is AllofMP3. They are claiming 11 millions songs were downloaded from the site. So here they are claiming $150,000 every time a song was downloaded and want 1.6 Trillion dollars. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36648

They are also threatening to sue satellite radio.

 

[BladeVenom]

Everyone hopefully remembers the 12 year old girl they sued. Brianna and the others sued yesterday under federal copyright law could face penalties of up to $150,000 per song

 

[jnmunsey]

So did this guy even commit a crime on American soil, or did he have it done using or conspire with anyone on American soil?

If they can't build a good case against him maybe they will just send him to Guantanamo..

 

[blazingrig]

Well, I dont agree with movie pirating, but movie studios gotta step up to the plate and start offering some fast download services. I dont care If i pay $3 for a 3 day rental, I just want a HD movie which will utilize my 8 mp connection while downloading. Come on man. I want new HD movies, I love HD movies and spending $10-$15 to rent movies a month is more than decent. As for music, thats a different thing really, i mean who pays for music these days, at least single tracks that is. Ive never copied video games in my life since I dont want to modify any console so these 360 developers making my money alright. As for PC games...hmm, Ive crossed the line a bit. But yeah, who cares about this. There are child molesters, rapists, dirty cops (never ever serve any time), and murderers getting off parole. Focus on them first.

Oh yeah, Kinda reminds me when the RIAA or whoever sent a swat team armed with shotguns to some guys store in Cali for moding xbox's. I mean are these police officers this naive. Wasting resources, those cops and shotguns could have been somewhere they were needed, why not just send in one detective and one officer to arrest the guy. IT's beyond hilarious. With no priors and a game store that mods what were they expecting, the guy to be loaded with an M 16 and a couple grenades.

 

[Ockie]

Just ignore Ockie, all he ever does it troll and try to start flame wars.

No I wasn't

 

[Sidewalkcookie]

And copying is copying. You seriously need to learn the difference between theft and copying.

I KNOW the difference between copying and theft, it seems that you don't get the difference. "Bandido" wasn't busted for "copying" his own retail CD's for backup, he was busted for software piracy, in other words, theft.

I have my retail copy of FEAR sitting here on my desk, if I dwnld a program to beat the "safe-disc" or whatever copyright protection is on there, make a bunch of copies, then pass them out to my friends, is that not theft?

Copy something for yourself, a backup CD, who cares? If you start distributing said backups, that's theft. Very simple concept.

 

[Sidewalkcookie]

The difference between theft and copyright infringement is that one always generates loss, the other may or may not. In fact, copyright infringement can generate additional profit.

There are plenty of games that I have downloaded and never paid for. 90% of today's games are pure crap. The same thing chewed up and regurgitated over and over.

Does that mean company xyz has lost money from that? No. Because I would have just waited until someone I knew bought it and tried it out at their place. In fact, me downloading games and playing them first generates additional income for the companies that make quality software because I pay for them right after release when their sale price is highest, instead of a couple months down the road when I get a chance to try it.

If someone who isn't going to buy a game goes out and pirates it, there is no loss. Despite whatever the gaming industries version of the RIAA/MPAA says.

That's some twisted thinking you have going on there.

Okay, you admit to stealing plenty of games. Then you say you pay for them right after release. How's that work?

Why isn't someone going to go out and buy a game? Because they can steal it! For every pirated game out there, the developer loses money. If someone, who isn't going to buy a game, doesn't buy it, the company loses nothing. The second said person steals that game, the company just lost the value of that game.

What, if you're just window shopping at the local comp store, and the guy behind the cash steps out back for a smoke, is it okay for you to grab a game and take off?

You weren't there to buy a game in the first place, you were just looking around, so they weren't about to make a sale off you. By your thinking, it would be okay to steal the game, cause no one would lose any money. Well, the store owner lost money, and the developer lost money.

Wanna say it's different because it's online, so no store is involved? Exactly, one less sale for the store owner, one less sale for the developer, you just cut them out of the system, you stole from them.

Nobody runs a business to break even, people run businesses to make a profit. If theft is cutting into the profits, you have a couple choices, reduce the time and money spent developing said games, and turn out crappy games that you mentioned, then sell them at the same price as good games. Or, spend the time and money to develope a good game, then charge a hell of a lot more for it.

In the end, it's the honest consumer that suffers the most, as we are the ones paying the inflated price for software.

Wait a minute, that's someone else that loses money, the honest consumer.

Explain to me one more time how no one loses money when software is stolen, I'm just not getting your point here.

 

[Draax]

In my opinion, if one is truly concerned with protecting their copyrights, then perhaps they should invest in a better copy protection system rather then waste money prosecuting Pirates. Do they really think they will get a half million out of this guy? Do they take into account the tax payer dollars which will be wasted on these court proceedings, after all most likely this guy will be punished with nothing more then time served.

 

[Nemesis999]

Explain to me one more time how no one loses money when software is stolen, I'm just not getting your point here.

My point was that I never buy games before trying time, simply because such a huge percentage of them are so bad. So there are 4 possibilities.

1) I pirate it, I like it, I buy it the next day. (Purchased at highest retail price, 1-2 days after release)
2) I pirate it, I play it for 30 minutes and get get bored, I delete it. (Not Purchased)
3) I wait until someone I know has it, I like it, I buy it the next day. (Purchased at reduced retail price, up to several months after release)
4) I wait until someone I know has it, I play it for 30 minutes and get get bored, I don't buy it. (Not Purchased)

If I wasn't able to pirate it, it doesn't mean I suddenly buy it to try it. It simple means I don't even pay attention to the game until it comes back up in conversation. There is no situation in which I purchase a game without trying it first. So Pirating results in me more quickly purchasing games I like and therefor paying the higher pricetag. On the other hand, if I don't like the game, there was no way it would have even been purchased either way, so there is no loss.

The difference comes in our definition of loss. You consider it loss as soon as a copy is made, which I consider incorrect. Theres is significant proof (mostly done through research into MP3s) that most downloaders would have never been buyers. So while, technically you could just add up the number of copies, multiply by retail price and declare the loss, many, if not most of those are not losses at all and in some cases like mine, may result in negative loss. (Too many commas but I'm too lazy to fix it.)

 

[Nemesis999]

On a side note:

This applies to movies too. I have a collection of hundreds of movies. Guess how many I downloaded or viewed at a friend's place first? Somewhere in the range of 100%.

 

[Ockie]

My point was that I never buy games before trying time, simply because such a huge percentage of them are so bad. So there are 4 possibilities.

1) I pirate it, I like it, I buy it the next day. (Purchased at highest retail price, 1-2 days after release)
2) I pirate it, I play it for 30 minutes and get get bored, I delete it. (Not Purchased)
3) I wait until someone I know has it, I like it, I buy it the next day. (Purchased at reduced retail price, up to several months after release)
4) I wait until someone I know has it, I play it for 30 minutes and get get bored, I don't buy it. (Not Purchased)

If I wasn't able to pirate it, it doesn't mean I suddenly buy it to try it. It simple means I don't even pay attention to the game until it comes back up in conversation. There is no situation in which I purchase a game without trying it first. So Pirating results in me more quickly purchasing games I like and therefor paying the higher pricetag. On the other hand, if I don't like the game, there was no way it would have even been purchased either way, so there is no loss.

The difference comes in our definition of loss. You consider it loss as soon as a copy is made, which I consider incorrect. Theres is significant proof (mostly done through research into MP3s) that most downloaders would have never been buyers. So while, technically you could just add up the number of copies, multiply by retail price and declare the loss, many, if not most of those are not losses at all and in some cases like mine, may result in negative loss. (Too many commas but I'm too lazy to fix it.)

I agree, I don't buy anything without trying it first. I've been burned so many times forking over 50 bucks and finding out the game is crap.

 

[mikeblas]

In my opinion, if one is truly concerned with protecting their copyrights, then perhaps they should invest in a better copy protection system rather then waste money prosecuting Pirates. Do they really think they will get a half million out of this guy? Do they take into account the tax payer dollars which will be wasted on these court proceedings, after all most likely this guy will be punished with nothing more then time served.

History tells us that your naieve approach just doesn't work out. No protection scheme in infallable. The best ones significantly inconvenience the consumer, leading to negative opinion about the producer or manufacturer.

Why do you think it's a waste of tax payer dollars when a victim uses the proper channels to seek remedy against their perpetrator?

 

[Sidewalkcookie]

Has no one ever heard of a "Game Demo"?

Any idea how many game review sites are out there? How many games ship today without having fired out tons of trailers first?

I also wonder how many people that dwnld pirated software actually delete said software after they find out they like it? I really can't see 99% of those dwnlding pirated software saying: "Wow! This game is good! Guess I'll delete this FREE copy now, then go out and spend $60 on the retail version."

Can't see it happening 99% of the time. Can't see it happening 1% of the time, I believe it would be far lower than that.

I dwnld demos, that tells me all I need to know, although I still read reviews.

Google for warez sites, you can buy warez CD's. WTF is up with that? It's okay to buy pirated software, in other words, pay a thief for something he stole, but it's not right to pay the developer for their work?

Sorry man, but there is absolutely no justification for theft.

Try stealing a Corvette from your local Chevy dealer, when you get busted, just tell the cop you were merely taking it for a test drive, if you like it, you'll buy it tomorrow. Lemme know how that works out for you.

 

[Eickst]

Has no one ever heard of a "Game Demo"?

Any idea how many game review sites are out there? How many games ship today without having fired out tons of trailers first?

I also wonder how many people that dwnld pirated software actually delete said software after they find out they like it? I really can't see 99% of those dwnlding pirated software saying: "Wow! This game is good! Guess I'll delete this FREE copy now, then go out and spend $60 on the retail version."

Can't see it happening 99% of the time. Can't see it happening 1% of the time, I believe it would be far lower than that.

I dwnld demos, that tells me all I need to know, although I still read reviews.

Google for warez sites, you can buy warez CD's. WTF is up with that? It's okay to buy pirated software, in other words, pay a thief for something he stole, but it's not right to pay the developer for their work?

Sorry man, but there is absolutely no justification for theft.

Try stealing a Corvette from your local Chevy dealer, when you get busted, just tell the cop you were merely taking it for a test drive, if you like it, you'll buy it tomorrow. Lemme know how that works out for you.

The test drive analogy is good, and even relates to those "demos" you talked about. But the demo of a PC game is typically equivalent to going to the Chevy dealership, asking for a test drive and the salesman lets you sit behind the wheel of the Corvette and say "vroom" alot while you spin the wheel and pump the pedals.

 

[Draax]

History tells us that your naieve approach just doesn't work out. No protection scheme in infallable. The best ones significantly inconvenience the consumer, leading to negative opinion about the producer or manufacturer.

No protection scheme YET is infallible (although authorization IR Fobs are close). Which is why money should be invested in designing one. What I find naive is the defeatist attitude that protection will always be broken, so why even try to design something better, as this sort of attitude is not representative of a company who truly wishes to protect their IP. It does however reek of a company which is too lazy to do anything on their end, and is instead more concerned with prosecuting pirates, of which there is an infinite supply.

Why do you think it's a waste of tax payer dollars when a victim uses the proper channels to seek remedy against their perpetrator?

The person in question has already spent 3-4 years in prison, thus even if he gets the maximum of 10 years in jail, the 2 for 1 time already served means he has to spend a maximum of 2-3 years in jail, which will be converted to probation. So in reality prosecuting this person is a waste of tax payer dollars. Now if said company didn't have their head up their ass, perhaps they would try and recruit this pirate into helping develop a copy protection system which is infallible.

 

[Ockie]

Has no one ever heard of a "Game Demo"?

Any idea how many game review sites are out there? How many games ship today without having fired out tons of trailers first?

I also wonder how many people that dwnld pirated software actually delete said software after they find out they like it? I really can't see 99% of those dwnlding pirated software saying: "Wow! This game is good! Guess I'll delete this FREE copy now, then go out and spend $60 on the retail version."

Can't see it happening 99% of the time. Can't see it happening 1% of the time, I believe it would be far lower than that.

I dwnld demos, that tells me all I need to know, although I still read reviews.

Google for warez sites, you can buy warez CD's. WTF is up with that? It's okay to buy pirated software, in other words, pay a thief for something he stole, but it's not right to pay the developer for their work?

Sorry man, but there is absolutely no justification for theft.

Try stealing a Corvette from your local Chevy dealer, when you get busted, just tell the cop you were merely taking it for a test drive, if you like it, you'll buy it tomorrow. Lemme know how that works out for you.

Game reviews are based on opinions, it's also based on the reviews of persons who have different hardware setups. Demos are not always available at the time of launch and a lot of the time do not reflect the actual release product (aka hacked down version).

Oh and BTW, stealing a Vette vs stealing a software is no where close. Here in the state of Michigan you get a warning for stealing a car for your first time and some weak stupid fine... that is if you are caught. You can get more trouble for publishing a video of a protected footage online (like a tv show).

 

[mikeblas]

Sorry man, but there is absolutely no justification for theft.

It's quite amazing to me that there's so much debate in this thread.

I wonder if part of the problem is that very few people have the talent, drive, or vision to create something useful and worthwhile. As such, most focus only on their consumer-based point of view; they want everything for cheap. So cheap, in fact, they get to the point where they can't understand paying anything for it, or why someone who has created something--or an organization whose business is publishing and distributing creations--will step up to defend their rights, marketplace, business model, and creation.

 

[Sidewalkcookie]

Game reviews are based on opinions, it's also based on the reviews of persons who have different hardware setups. Demos are not always available at the time of launch and a lot of the time do not reflect the actual release product (aka hacked down version).

Oh and BTW, stealing a Vette vs stealing a software is no where close. Here in the state of Michigan you get a warning for stealing a car for your first time and some weak stupid fine... that is if you are caught. You can get more trouble for publishing a video of a protected footage online (like a tv show).

Yes, of course, reviews are opinions, that's why you go to trusted sites and read the reviews, not ONE review, but SEVERAL reviews.

The hardware config differences mean a whole lot, and that's why reviews, as well as DEMOs, are very important. Then again, you were saying that you've been ripped off buying crappy games, what does that have to do with hardware, or demos?

If a demo is a "hacked down" version of the game, as you claim, and it's STILL good, obviously, the actual game will be better, won't it? Once again, reading several reviews of said game will prove that out, or prove that the game sucks.

As for the punishment for stealing a car the first time in Michigan, well, that's just mentally deficient. It's not some software developer's fault that Michigan lawmakers have their collective heads up their collective asses.

 

[mikeblas]

Oh and BTW, stealing a Vette vs stealing a software is no where close. Here in the state of Michigan you get a warning for stealing a car for your first time and some weak stupid fine... that is if you are caught. You can get more trouble for publishing a video of a protected footage online (like a tv show).

You can get more trouble for stealing the car, too. Sentencing guidelines are just that. You are aware that the copyvio is a federal crime, right?

Meanwhile, have you done any analysis of the cost of the car and its recovery to compare the damages to the cost of the television show and its recovery?

 

[Nemesis999]

Game reviews are based on opinions, it's also based on the reviews of persons who have different hardware setups. Demos are not always available at the time of launch and a lot of the time do not reflect the actual release product (aka hacked down version).

Oh and BTW, stealing a Vette vs stealing a software is no where close. Here in the state of Michigan you get a warning for stealing a car for your first time and some weak stupid fine... that is if you are caught. You can get more trouble for publishing a video of a protected footage online (like a tv show).

And if I were to go to a dealership, look at a car, go home, and make an exact replica, what would happen? Very little.

Analogies where you compare physical objects to intellectiul property simply don't work. Mostly because IP laws are completely @$%!ed up.

What's the penalty for stealing a CD from a store? A small fine.
What's do they sue you for if you download the contents of a CD? 5-6 figures.

What about a movie? What if you steal a movie from a store? Small fine.
What if you copy a movie? What is it, up to $250 grand and 5 years or something?

Intellectual property laws are flat out retarded. They're the consequence of corrupt politicians and political "lobbying" (AKA bribery) firms.

 

[Nemesis999]

You can get more trouble for stealing the car, too. Sentencing guidelines are just that. You are aware that the copyvio is a federal crime, right?

Meanwhile, have you done any analysis of the cost of the car and its recovery to compare the damages to the cost of the television show and its recovery?

The damages for a single copy of a television show? Pennies? They maintain the right to go after each and every individual that violated the copyright, so again, trying to apply the loss over the entire industry to every individual that participated is nothing more then theft itself.

 

[Ockie]

You can get more trouble for stealing the car, too. Sentencing guidelines are just that. You are aware that the copyvio is a federal crime, right?

Meanwhile, have you done any analysis of the cost of the car and its recovery to compare the damages to the cost of the television show and its recovery?

Actually, they are guidelines and those are what is being dished out here. Living in the Detroit metro area you start to get a feel for what they do in the car theft industry, literally every day I hear of someones car that is stolen... and to top if off, they are shutting down a large state prison here and releasing many of these repeat offenders. Their claim is that there is no room for first time offenders.

See, but now you are comparing multiple people to one event. If say I downloaded a show, it's just me, I'm not talking about the other million downloaders... in the same way my analogy wont compare it to a million vettes stolen.

And if I were to go to a dealership, look at a car, go home, and make an exact replica, what would happen? Very little.

Analogies where you compare physical objects to intellectiul property simply don't work. Mostly because IP laws are completely @$%!ed up.

What's the penalty for stealing a CD from a store? A small fine.
What's do they sue you for if you download the contents of a CD? 5-6 figures.

What about a movie? What if you steal a movie from a store? Small fine.
What if you copy a movie? What is it, up to $250 grand and 5 years or something?

Intellectual property laws are flat out retarded. They're the consequence of corrupt politicians and political "lobbying" (AKA bribery) firms.

In fact, nothing would happen to you if you made a replica car, only if you were to sell this replica. Heck, search on ebay motors for "replica" and you will see hundreds of replica cars made to look just like the real thing.

 

[mikeblas]

The damages for a single copy of a television show? Pennies?

You're guessing, not analysing. And guessing poorly, too.

And if I were to go to a dealership, look at a car, go home, and make an exact replica, what would happen? Very little.

That depends on what you did with the replica.

What's do they sue you for if you download the contents of a CD? 5-6 figures.

Can you cite cases where the downloaders (who didn't republish what they downloaded) were fined amounts in five or six figures? For downloading a single CD, without republishing what they downloaded?

Otherwise, I think you're really exaggerating the issue. Certainly, people who've copied and redistributed content in large numbers have seen fines and settlements in this range. When you correctly analyse the damage done, you'll find that the amounts really aren't that disproportionate.

The car thread really is making a convenient comparison. Someone who redistributes unlicensed IP isn't stealing a single car.

 

[Nemesis999]

You're guessing, not analysing. And guessing poorly, too.

A typical box-set costs, what, $30-$40?
So under $2/episode.

Now, include shipping costs, manufacturing costs, retail profit margin, actor's cut, etc, and the amount that actually gets pocketed by the production studio is going to be less then a dollar.

 

[Worldhammer]

I am no fan of the riaa etc. In fact I think their current approach dooms the music industry to continue it's slow decline into extinction and the fact that they cant see that demonstrates painfully what a sick animal it has become. A snake eating its own tail comes to mind. Times have changed, and instead of seeking to adapt like every other business has to in the face of technology, they employ this tail wags the dog approach and bite the hands of the only people who can save them.

That being said, there is a crazy amount of bullshit self-justification in this thread. Unbelievable!

Nearly everything you buy comes from one corporation or another. Every bit of hardware you use comes from one. You dont have a problem with them when you hook up your newest, hottest gaming mouse, so spare me your selective convictions. Your responsibility does not end at the closest usb port, and then magically reappear at the other end of a p2p client.

If they only made a better product I might be more willing to pay for it.
Then why do you want it at all? Good enough to be on your HD, then good enough to pay for. Wow! that subject got exhausted pretty quick eh?

I just pirate it to "test" it for my consumption. I then immediately go out and buy it if it is good enough! This is maybe the biggest croc out of all of it. What degree of "good" is good enough? How many were good enough for you to finish, but not quite good enough to buy? 'Well it was ok, but for 50-60$!? It was too short!" Sound familiar? I bet it does. This is one of those detestable, "I'm special and shouldnt have to face the risks other consumers face." defenses. Has no basis or precedent in reality. Read some reviews. I know you can cause after all, you are online.

Why dont they go after real criminals?
This is another one I have seen again and again. Yet another wow! Think of that one all by yourself moment. I guess they should stop busting anyone who hasnt killed somebody!
If that was your stuff you would want something done and you damn well know it.

 

[Ockie]

You're guessing, not analysing. And guessing poorly, too.

Not that far off, vendors are offering some of the hottest tv shows for 99 cents a show, this is high quality content without the commercials and crap, using thier bandwidth and their resources

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05317/605730.stm

That depends on what you did with the replica.

You are allowed to sell a replica and/or build one for a customer. View the current ebay auctions, there are huge replica clubs and followings.

 

[Ockie]

I'm not justifying this, I'm just bringing up some points, thats all. I own all my software and purchase all my games incase any of you cares.

 

[Nemesis999]

I just pirate it to "test" it for my consumption. I then immediately go out and buy it if it is good enough! This is maybe the biggest croc out of all of it. What degree of "good" is good enough? How many were good enough for you to finish, but not quite good enough to buy? 'Well it was ok, but for 50-60$!? It was too short!" Sound familiar? I bet it does. This is one of those detestable, "I'm special and shouldnt have to face the risks other consumers face." defenses. Has no basis or precedent in reality. Read some reviews. I know you can cause after all, you are online.

You probably can't tell this over there internet, but there is a distinct lack of caring as to whether or not you believe me. The fact is, I own a collection over over 150 games, all purchased retail. My only requirement for purchasing a game is that it can entertain me for a few hours. So no, if I beat a game in 2 hours, I won't be purchasing it, of course not. Other then those rare games, and games that I play in their entirety, I have purchased every game that I have finished.

As for reviews, you may like to download your opinion off a webpage, I prefer to form my own, thanks. Demos also lack anywhere near the demonstrative capacity of a retail version. Of course that 30 minute demo was fun, they put 50% of the game's content in it. That doesn't tell you the fact that the other 8 hours of gameplay are the same content repeated over and over again. I'm more then happy to play fully working demos. That's how I started playing WoW, and that's how I knew that Vanguard was possibly the worst MMO ever made. But how often do you see a truly open demo? Never, with the exception of MMOs.

 

[Sidewalkcookie]

It all boils down to one single thing; theft is unethical and immoral. Period, no matter how a person tries to justify it, it's unethical, immoral, and holy stolen CD's Batman, illegal too!

The punishment for stealing a car is less than the punishment for stealing software? Does that make stealing cars "not quite as illegal" as stealing software? Or are both scenarios theft, and therefor equally illegal?

Theft is theft, doesn't matter if your kid hooked the change out of your pocket while you were sleeping, or whether the kid next door stole your television, it's still theft, there is a law against it, it's freakin illegal, like DUH!

You get busted driving 80mph in a 50mph zone, what's your justification for that? Gonna tell the cop that everyone else drives that fast, so he should leave you alone? Did you see the speed limit sign? Yup. Did you know it would be illegal to drive 80mph in a 50mph zone? Yup. So, you knowingly broke the law.

Suck it up.

Steal software, suck it up when you get caught.

BTW, Bandido did not just steal one game here people, he did this for years and years, how much software was stolen in total? How many of those that dwnlded said software deleted it after they found out they liked it, and then, ahem, went out and bought the full retail copy?

How many people are subscribed to P2P networks, stealing software? 5million? 10million? Are my estimates low? Okay, if each one of those people shares 2 pieces of software, at $40 a pop retail, how much money was just stolen?

Do the math, this is not about one single game, one single movie, one single song, one single program, it's about MILLIONS.

My buddy once told me you can't teach pork, you can only cure it. Even then, once you're done, all you have is a stupid piece of meat.

He was so right.

 

[Eickst]

It all boils down to one single thing; theft is unethical and immoral. Period, no matter how a person tries to justify it, it's unethical, immoral, and holy stolen CD's Batman, illegal too!

The punishment for stealing a car is less than the punishment for stealing software? Does that make stealing cars "not quite as illegal" as stealing software? Or are both scenarios theft, and therefor equally illegal?

Theft is theft, doesn't matter if your kid hooked the change out of your pocket while you were sleeping, or whether the kid next door stole your television, it's still theft, there is a law against it, it's freakin illegal, like DUH!

You get busted driving 80mph in a 50mph zone, what's your justification for that? Gonna tell the cop that everyone else drives that fast, so he should leave you alone? Did you see the speed limit sign? Yup. Did you know it would be illegal to drive 80mph in a 50mph zone? Yup. So, you knowingly broke the law.

Suck it up.

Steal software, suck it up when you get caught.

BTW, Bandido did not just steal one game here people, he did this for years and years, how much software was stolen in total? How many of those that dwnlded said software deleted it after they found out they liked it, and then, ahem, went out and bought the full retail copy?

How many people are subscribed to P2P networks, stealing software? 5million? 10million? Are my estimates low? Okay, if each one of those people shares 2 pieces of software, at $40 a pop retail, how much money was just stolen?

Do the math, this is not about one single game, one single movie, one single song, one single program, it's about MILLIONS.

My buddy once told me you can't teach pork, you can only cure it. Even then, once you're done, all you have is a stupid piece of meat.

He was so right.

Society decides what's immoral and unethical, not the law. The law describes what's illegal. Beating up a child pedophile would be illegal, but I doubt any society would consider it unethical or immoral. Theft is theft, eh? I'll bet the poor english peasants felt the same way about Robin Hood. Fucking thief, he should rot in prison!

 

[Sidewalkcookie]

Society decides what's immoral and unethical, not the law. The law describes what's illegal. Beating up a child pedophile would be illegal, but I doubt any society would consider it unethical or immoral. Theft is theft, eh? I'll bet the poor english peasants felt the same way about Robin Hood. Fucking thief, he should rot in prison!

Dude, I have no idea what "society" you live in, but beating up a child pedophile is both unethical and immoral. We have laws to deal with peds, and when we as a society decide that vigilatism is okay, we're on our way to anarchy.

Yeah, we'd all love to beat the ped to death, but as a society, we can't allow that. If it was one of my kids that were assaulted, I'd do everything in my power to kill the mofo, knowing full well that I was breaking the law, and willing to suck it up.

"Robin Hood"?

Dude, Robin Hood did not exist.

The fact that you think he did, explains your lack of intelligence on this subject.

 

[mikeblas]

Now, include shipping costs, manufacturing costs, retail profit margin, actor's cut, etc, and the amount that actually gets pocketed by the production studio is going to be less then a dollar.

Except, since the material was pirated, the box company isn't cardboarding, the shipping company isn't shipping, the disc manufacturer isn't pressing, and so on.

How much of the American GDP do you think is about IP and not material goods, even only directly?

Not that far off, vendors are offering some of the hottest tv shows for 99 cents a show, this is high quality content without the commercials and crap, using thier bandwidth and their resources

I'd call "pennies" an order of magnitude away from "99 cents". But both numbers skip the multiplier. The damage done by uploading the file and redistributing it depends on the range of the redistribution, so there can be a very big multiplier.

It also enables others to download it and redistribute that copy. The action might cause further consequential damages, such as talent refusing to sign with a company that's not paying well because they're losing sales to pirates. It's funny that we worry so much about tax payer's money being wasted when the country spends such a small fraction of its budget on the courts; instead, why don't we worry about the victims in these cases need to spend so much money to hire lawyers to sue the pirates themselves?

 

[acidic]

You probably can't tell this over there internet, but there is a distinct lack of caring as to whether or not you believe me. The fact is, I own a collection over over 150 games, all purchased retail. My only requirement for purchasing a game is that it can entertain me for a few hours. So no, if I beat a game in 2 hours, I won't be purchasing it, of course not. Other then those rare games, and games that I play in their entirety, I have purchased every game that I have finished.

As for reviews, you may like to download your opinion off a webpage, I prefer to form my own, thanks. Demos also lack anywhere near the demonstrative capacity of a retail version. Of course that 30 minute demo was fun, they put 50% of the game's content in it. That doesn't tell you the fact that the other 8 hours of gameplay are the same content repeated over and over again. I'm more then happy to play fully working demos. That's how I started playing WoW, and that's how I knew that Vanguard was possibly the worst MMO ever made. But how often do you see a truly open demo? Never, with the exception of MMOs.

What you may not realize is that the more people that pirate the more publishers must invest in content protection and that raises cost for other consumers and raises incompatibility problems.

Companies makes predictions on perceived market returns and thus are willing to invest. However, pirating eats chunks out of the potential market, thus lowering the actual monetary return to investment. The publishers then either must adjust for lower investment since the scale of return diminished substantially, or must raise prices such that it covers the loss to pirating. Its a no win situation to society as a whole, because in the long run the industry must either increase prices for everyone or must put out lower quality goods to make a profit. Consumers end up with higher prices and lower quality goods because businesses will be more hesitant to risk money on an increasingly risky return.

 

[Nemesis999]

Except, since the material was pirated, the box company isn't cardboarding, the shipping company isn't shipping, the disc manufacturer isn't pressing, and so on.

How much of the American GDP do you think is about IP and not material goods, even only directly?

That is outside the scope of the loss for the production company. When the RIAA sues some on they do it for the producers, not for the box makers, not for the retailers.

The GDP argument is completely null. That money doesn't disappear if a product isn't purchased, it goes back into the economy through some other purchase.

 

[Sidewalkcookie]

What you may not realize is that the more people that pirate the more publishers must invest in content protection and that raises cost for other consumers and raises incompatibility problems.

Companies makes predictions on perceived market returns and thus are willing to invest. However, pirating eats chunks out of the potential market, thus lowering the actual monetary return to investment. The publishers then either must adjust for lower investment since the scale of return diminished substantially, or must raise prices such that it covers the loss to pirating. Its a no win situation to society as a whole, because in the long run the industry must either increase prices for everyone or must put out lower quality goods to make a profit. Consumers end up with higher prices and lower quality goods because businesses will be more hesitant to risk money on an increasingly risky return.

Exactly, it's called "Profit Margin".

What's the point of being in business if you're not making a profit?

 

[Eickst]

Dude, I have no idea what "society" you live in, but beating up a child pedophile is both unethical and immoral. We have laws to deal with peds, and when we as a society decide that vigilatism is okay, we're on our way to anarchy.

Yeah, we'd all love to beat the ped to death, but as a society, we can't allow that. If it was one of my kids that were assaulted, I'd do everything in my power to kill the mofo, knowing full well that I was breaking the law, and willing to suck it up.

"Robin Hood"?

Dude, Robin Hood did not exist.

The fact that you think he did, explains your lack of intelligence on this subject.

First off, thanks for the insult. It debases your position and shows your true lack of character. Secondly, no where in my statement did I claim that Robin Hood existed.

And on our way to anarchy? You obviously don't know the meaning of the word, which "explains your lack of intelligence on this subject." I suggest you look it up.

 

[mikeblas]

That is outside the scope of the loss for the production company. When the RIAA sues some on they do it for the producers, not for the box makers, not for the retailers.

For compensatory damages, your point is valid. For punitive damages, it is simply wrong. The entire point of punitive damages is to dissuade the act from happening again, which in these cases is intended to protect the whole process.

The GDP argument is completely null. That money doesn't disappear if a product isn't purchased, it goes back into the economy through some other purchase.

Maybe you're right. After all, Americans save -1% of their income. No wonder they want everything for free!

 

[Sidewalkcookie]

That is outside the scope of the loss for the production company. When the RIAA sues some on they do it for the producers, not for the box makers, not for the retailers.

The GDP argument is completely null. That money doesn't disappear if a product isn't purchased, it goes back into the economy through some other purchase.

Dude, a retailer makes a profit. If someone like Bandido takes away 1,000,000 sales, possibly 200 or more of those sales were the retailer's, any given retailer. If his profit was $5 per sale, he just lost $1000. If Bandido stole 10 games and stole that many sales, we're talking $10,000 for one retailer.

The guys that ship said games to retailers, welp, they just lost out too, cause that 2000 games they won't be shipping.

The beat goes on, can you not see how shit rolls downhill?

Anyone/company that could make a penny off the game, no longer makes that penny, cause it was stolen before they had a chance to make that penny.

This is not rocket science here.

Take profit out of the equation, this is theft, pure, plain, and simple.