Softbank Approaches TSMC and Foxconn for Potential ARM Buyout

[erek]

"If TSMC and Foxconn have any interest in the company, it would be necessary to create a consortium that would operate Arm Ltd. With NVIDIA, Samsung, and these two new players, the consortium would already count four companies. Nikkei sources claim that Apple and Qualcomm have been also included in the poll of potential buyers, which would make the idea of establishing a consortium very valid."

https://www.techpowerup.com/270699/softbank-approaches-tsmc-and-foxconn-for-potential-arm-buyout

 

[5150Joker]

Sounds like more bullshit from Softbank to ratchet up the price of ARM.

 

[EniGmA1987]

Pretty soon it seems we will see the end of SoftBank. They keep throwing money at Uber and DoorDash and are losing it by the hundreds of millions. So they are selling ARM to raise money for their deficit, so they can keep throwing money at Uber and DoorDash? Lol

 

[NeoNemesis]

Pretty soon it seems we will see the end of SoftBank. They keep throwing money at Uber and DoorDash and are losing it by the hundreds of millions. So they are selling ARM to raise money for their deficit, so they can keep throwing money at Uber and DoorDash? Lol

I don't see Uber making money until they can completely eliminate drivers and go whole hog into self-driving electric cars.

 

[GiGaBiTe]

Nvidia, Apple or Qualcomm buying ARM would mean the end of ARM as we know it.

Nvidia would kill it off, Apple would charge $2999 per chip and lock you in and Qualcomm is Qualcomm.

In any case, the future of ARM is bleak at best.

 

[Lakados]

I don't see Uber making money until they can completely eliminate drivers and go whole hog into self-driving electric cars.

I don’t see Uber making money... Self driving cars are far enough out that I doubt they will be able to make that spread.

 

[phillyboy]

Pretty soon it seems we will see the end of SoftBank. They keep throwing money at Uber and DoorDash and are losing it by the hundreds of millions. So they are selling ARM to raise money for their deficit, so they can keep throwing money at Uber and DoorDash? Lol

Don’t forget about that gem WeWork... all this VC money down the shitter that could have been better spent elsewhere.

 

[Chimpee]

I don’t see Uber making money... Self driving cars are far enough out that I doubt they will be able to make that spread.

Especially if Uber needs to maintain a fleet of vehicles and maintenance crew.

 

[Lakados]

Especially if Uber needs to maintain a fleet of vehicles and maintenance crew.

Well if they halved or quartered their fleets and doubled their prices it would work fine, but that would bring them in line with the taxi services they are fighting to push out.

 

[EniGmA1987]

I'm assuming Jensen wants ARM so that NVIDIA can build ARM designs that favor the direction they want which would allow them to leverage CPU/GPU designs for next gen consoles, handhelds and even the server/AI markets. They'd also maybe be able to start selling GPUs built into ARM cores to smartphone manufacturers which would be a huge win for them so there's a lot of upsides for NVIDIA in controlling ARM designs and IMO smartphones would be better with an NVIDIA GPU driving them rather than the garbage we've seen till now.

They also get to own a CPU IP company, which is huge for Nvidia just in case the market shifts more towards ARM cores in things. Every time Nvidia has tried to get CPU cores in things they have been frozen out of x86, so by owning ARM when AMD or Intel come to them Nvidia can do all sorts of payback on pricing to those companies.


It does basically complete Nvidia's ecosystem though which I think is the main reason they want it. They own a ton of GPU IP, they now own Mellanox and its IP and networking stuff, and then by owning the CPU side of things too they have a hand in all major processing architectures needed for their servers.

 

[ChadD]

They also get to own a CPU IP company, which is huge for Nvidia just in case the market shifts more towards ARM cores in things. Every time Nvidia has tried to get CPU cores in things they have been frozen out of x86, so by owning ARM when AMD or Intel come to them Nvidia can do all sorts of payback on pricing to those companies.


It does basically complete Nvidia's ecosystem though which I think is the main reason they want it. They own a ton of GPU IP, they now own Mellanox and its IP and networking stuff, and then by owning the CPU side of things too they have a hand in all major processing architectures needed for their servers.

If Nvidia buys ARM... ARM dies. Yes Nvidia gets to make arm chips... they can already do that a lot cheaper a licence for ever is cheaper then a 50 billion dollar purchase. (they also already hold ARM licences... and produce ARM chips. Like the ones in the Switch) If NV does manage to swing a deal for ARM (which is doubtful Nvidia doesn't have the cash and softbank is looking for cash not Nvidia shares lol) it would be the end of ARM. Sure Apple will stick with ARM they are doing their own thing and have a life time licence they don't care who owns ARM. Everyone else will be out.... NV has no incentive to continue updating Cortex cores to licence to smaller players like mediatek... and to direct competition such as say Tesla ect ect ect. I really don't even understand why Nvidia would even contemplate a ARM purchase frankly it makes zero sense. Within a decade Samsung Qualcomm and the Chinese ARM CPU designing firms would probably end up on MIPS or something else to escape NV control... the smaller players that rely on Cortex designs will basically be SOL.

Anyway if NV wants to make ARM server chips they can anytime they like. Licence and go. Its a hell of a lot less expensive then buying ARM. Fugitsu has already proven you can take ARM V8 tack on ARMS HPE extensions... and vector units and run circles around the old CPU+GPU stuff. NV could compete with them anytime they want.

 

[DanNeely]

Nvidia, Apple or Qualcomm buying ARM would mean the end of ARM as we know it.

Nvidia would kill it off, Apple would charge $2999 per chip and lock you in and Qualcomm is Qualcomm.

In any case, the future of ARM is bleak at best.

You're right that putting it in the hands of any one major customer would be very bad (they could use abusive licensing terms to screw rivals and neglect/abandon parts of the arm ecosystem they don't care about). But Arm's big enough that selling to a single dis-interested buyer is impractical at best. A broad industry consortium is the best we can hope for. NVidia, Samsung, Apple, and Qualcomm would collectively cover most of the high end SoC market. TSMC and Foxconn indirectly bring in parts of the lower end/embedded segment because they do substanial amounts of business with companies making use of Arms smaller and lower powered cores. If we're doing a dream consortium, I'd like to bring in at least on ARM server maker to add a high end core user, and possibly a few R/M core users directly; but just the 6 companies already mentioned would probably be a broad enough base to keep the ecosystem healthy for all users. Over the longer term they could gradually sell shares on the open market, transitioning ARM back to being independent of its major customers again.

 

[GiGaBiTe]

You're right that putting it in the hands of any one major customer would be very bad (they could use abusive licensing terms to screw rivals and neglect/abandon parts of the arm ecosystem they don't care about). But Arm's big enough that selling to a single dis-interested buyer is impractical at best. A broad industry consortium is the best we can hope for.

We can only hope a consortium buys them and keeps them an independent entity. I've personally seen far too many good companies snapped up by huge mega corporations and then torn apart to sell off for maximum cash profit, or had the management replaced with their own and ran into the ground. This is a bad problem in the security industry, a lot of really good companies have been bought out by mega corporations like GE, Siemens and Bosch among others and been completely destroyed by either greed or gross incompetence. GE is by far the worst, they're so big that they don't even know everything they own, and any tiny acquisition they make is like a mosquito on a windshield.

 

[5150Joker]

Update: https://www.standard.co.uk/business/nividia-buy-chipmaker-arm-a4524761.html and https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...s-accelerate-amid-calls-protect-cambridge-hq/

Looks like nvidia might get it as long as regulators approve. Should lead to an exciting future for nvidia if this goes through. Hell I’m excited for them, they will become the largest cpu and gpu company in the world once this deals closes. Intel must be kicking themselves for not merging with nvidia when they had a chance.

If the UK MPs are placated by reassurances by nvidia that the ARM hq will stay in the UK that should be enough to satisfy them. I’m sure over time nvidia will shift it all to Santa Clara and keep the “headquarters” in the UK as a business unit rather than R&D.

 

[longblock454]

Perhaps this merger will bolster RISC-V by some not trusting Nvidia, which i'd like to see.

 

[Lakados]

Perhaps this merger will bolster RISC-V by some not trusting Nvidia, which i'd like to see.

RISC-V is going to get a lot of traction in the next few years as China moves to decrease its reliance on foreign IP. Huawei loosing access to ARM was a huge slap in the face and they are going to spin it to something positive the Communist Party won’t have it any other way.

Most manufacturers are not worried about NVidia doing anything drastic with ARM with no notice, it wouldn’t be in their financial interests to do anything that would decrease its market share and NVidia does not have access to the manufacturing capabilities to take it away from the parties at hand. I can see it as a way for NVidia to gear future chip designs for their purposes more though, so greater focus on Datacenter and Workstations, and possibly integrating some of their IP into the chip designs and tweaking the licensing agreements accordingly. It would also potentially allow them to hold some leverage over Intel and AMD in regards to Big Little designs and patents and give them a larger portfolio to bargain with.

 

[Staples]

I don't understand ARM. They make chip designs and license them to Apple, Samsung, Qualcom. Ok. Then why is it that ARM chips from these three companies are so far apart in speed? Is ARM just like the general specification like x86? If that is the case, then ARM is just a patent holder rather than someone who designs chips.

 

[noko]

As it is looking like, Nvidia will make more money from Servers then gaming cards in the near future, this could be a great move having Nvidia option for servers using their GPUs and their ARM processors. The price does seem pretty steep and how Nvidia will make that back, methods, goals will be very interesting. I am sure Apple is looking forward to working with Nvidia once again

 

[Lakados]

I don't understand ARM. They make chip designs and license them to Apple, Samsung, Qualcom. Ok. Then why is it that ARM chips from these three companies are so far apart in speed? Is ARM just like the general specification like x86? If that is the case, then ARM is just a patent holder rather than someone who designs chips.

Arm makes a base design that you can license and build. Qualcomm generally makes the basic version, you can also license the tech to use as a base for your own design Amazon, Apple, and until recently Huawei we’re taking this option. They are the patent holder and they make basic all rounded designs and spend a lot on R&D to further those designs, but in recent years costs to further those designs and their licensing fees haven’t kept up so they have been loosing money every year since SoftBank bought them. SoftBank is not in a position to drive them forward and find a way to turn a profit on the tech.

 

[5150Joker]

As it is looking like, Nvidia will make more money from Servers then gaming cards in the near future, this could be a great move having Nvidia option for servers using their GPUs and their ARM processors. The price does seem pretty steep and how Nvidia will make that back, methods, goals will be very interesting. I am sure Apple is looking forward to working with Nvidia once again

Apple doesn’t need to work with nvidia because they have a perpetual license since they helped start Arm—that’s why they likely declined to purchase Arm, they don’t need to. I might skip 3090 and just dump more money into nvidia stock while I can, this company is going to be the next Amazon of the tech world.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

RISC-V is going to get a lot of traction in the next few years as China moves to decrease its reliance on foreign IP. Huawei loosing access to ARM was a huge slap in the face and they are going to spin it to something positive the Communist Party won’t have it any other way.

Most manufacturers are not worried about NVidia doing anything drastic with ARM with no notice, it wouldn’t be in their financial interests to do anything that would decrease its market share and NVidia does not have access to the manufacturing capabilities to take it away from the parties at hand. I can see it as a way for NVidia to gear future chip designs for their purposes more though, so greater focus on Datacenter and Workstations, and possibly integrating some of their IP into the chip designs and tweaking the licensing agreements accordingly. It would also potentially allow them to hold some leverage over Intel and AMD in regards to Big Little designs and patents and give them a larger portfolio to bargain with.

They don't need to own ARM to do any of that though. That's obtained through purchasing an ARM license. There isn't a need to expend anywhere close to this amount of money merely for chip a chip license. The fraction of money they would pay for a license compared to over 30 billion to buy would be less than a percent. Which is also why Apple isn't interested in buying this. The only thing that obtaining ARM would do would be getting you into the chip licensing business, which at least to me doesn't seem particularly lucrative versus selling a completed product.

 

[Lakados]

They don't need to own ARM to do any of that though. That's obtained through purchasing an ARM license. There isn't a need to expend anywhere close to this amount of money merely for chip a chip license. The fraction of money they would pay for a license compared to over 30 billion to buy would be less than a percent. Which is also why Apple isn't interested in buying this. The only thing that obtaining ARM would do would be getting you into the chip licensing business, which at least to me doesn't seem particularly lucrative versus selling a completed product.

It really isn’t but there is no way it will sell for 30B, just like everything else SoftBank has touched tech wise they are gonna take a bath on this. They are going to sell, the question is will it be bought by a known entity or somebody with backing out of Dubai.