So...

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After the issues/drama with f@h and bigadv a lot of people gave up. It's still a little active but unfortunately won't be like it was.
 
Some also just moved to other DC projects. We have a team at almost every one of them.
 
all true and all sad - EVGA posts more points in a single EOC update than we can manage in a day:(
 
402blownstroker said:
True, but there is no combined effort and common goal.
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I would say that is because there are too many people waiting on everyone else to do something about it.... If you have ideas on how to get the old team back, we do have a discussion thread stickied right now. Put in your 2 cents on what you would like done...
 
No, Gilthanis, because there are now 895 projects (intentional exaggeration) instead of just one. It's just very difficult to generate team excitement when people post about success in a project one has never heard of before. I am NOT criticizing anyone; maybe quite a few people don't know about my projects as well.

In short, many of us are indeed, quite active; but the excitement is mainly gone. Hate to say it, but it's true.
 
Linden is correct IMHO there are so many projects in the boinc umbrella, many of which are totally useless from my point of view, it is really hard to get excited about a given project, then if you look at the way the credit system is set up within boinc it leaves allot to be desired.

The popularity of DC is dropping and I doubt it will return to the status it once held. DC projects are not known for their great management skills and PR abilities. and without them the odds of creating any kind of fun and excitement about a project just is not that great.
 
Grandpa_01 said:
Linden is correct IMHO there are so many projects in the boinc umbrella, many of which are totally useless from my point of view, it is really hard to get excited about a given project, then if you look at the way the credit system is set up within boinc it leaves allot to be desired.
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Well two things that need addressed here:
1. We are trying to address the project selection debate. It is NOT a BOINC or not BOINC. But rather what project(s) specifically the team wants. So, WCG only? WCG + GPUGrid? FAH?

2. People need to wrap their heads around that BigAdv point system is gone and they got burned by PG. Now everyone with those rigs need to accept that they set things up for a very unique and limited points run. Yeah they may have been misled. Fault goes to both sides. I see it like the Bitcoin craze. Some people got out at the right time, but a lot did not. So now you have the stragglers trying to hold on. I'm sure somebody will try and come along and say it is apples to oranges, but it is just a similar situation.

If you are truthfully in it for the science, then the points don't matter that much. But then again I am one of those crunchers that don't care if each work unit is worth 1 point.

I have yet to see any of the FAH work units get any kind of credit for anything but papers. (and many other projects as well) Very few projects actually get a glimpse of real success. I would like to see the team DC a project (as a focus) that has a much better track record.
 
Grandpa_01 said:
Linden is correct IMHO there are so many projects in the boinc umbrella, many of which are totally useless from my point of view, it is really hard to get excited about a given project, then if you look at the way the credit system is set up within boinc it leaves allot to be desired.

The popularity of DC is dropping and I doubt it will return to the status it once held. DC projects are not known for their great management skills and PR abilities. and without them the odds of creating any kind of fun and excitement about a project just is not that great.[/QUOTE]

Gilthanis said:
Well two things that need addressed here:
1. We are trying to address the project selection debate. It is NOT a BOINC or not BOINC. But rather what project(s) specifically the team wants. So, WCG only? WCG + GPUGrid? FAH?

2. People need to wrap their heads around that BigAdv point system is gone and they got burned by PG. Now everyone with those rigs need to accept that they set things up for a very unique and limited points run. Yeah they may have been misled. Fault goes to both sides. I see it like the Bitcoin craze. Some people got out at the right time, but a lot did not. So now you have the stragglers trying to hold on. I'm sure somebody will try and come along and say it is apples to oranges, but it is just a similar situation.

If you are truthfully in it for the science, then the points don't matter that much. But then again I am one of those crunchers that don't care if each work unit is worth 1 point.

I have yet to see any of the FAH work units get any kind of credit for anything but papers. (and many other projects as well) Very few projects actually get a glimpse of real success. I would like to see the team DC a project (as a focus) that has a much better track record.
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I am pretty sure I answered #1 above. Although I do believe you need a project that supports both CPU and GPU otherwise you just split the team credits. And what rallies a team is the ability to be completive against another team. It is human nature to be completive, thus the credit system. Stick your head in the sand about that and well lets just say your ass is going to be sticking up in the air just waiting to get kicked.

I am pretty sure I have been running DC projects on computers longer than the majority of most DC participants . The first few F@H WU's I ran were worth 1 point ea. I have seen allot of people come and go and I am still contributing to DC.

As far as #2 goes in reality the credit system is the gauge of how an individual or team is doing at a given task and is what draws allot of individuals to a given project. If you are not going to address this in choosing a project you just as well flip a coin. People need motivation and you need a motivation of one form or another. In DC for many it is the points system and the competition that is created by that system.
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As far as #2 goes in reality the credit system is the gauge of how an individual or team is doing at a given task and is what draws allot of individuals to a given project. If you are not going to address this in choosing a project you just as well flip a coin. People need motivation and you need a motivation of one form or another. In DC for many it is the points system and the competition that is created by that system.
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That gauge is true until someone bitches that the gauge isn't good enough any more because they get hung up on it. If it later changes they act like a child. Take their ball and go home. I get the competitive side of it. And I agree with you to an extent. But if one moment you think most our members did all of this simply for points, I doubt you get many of them to openly admit that...

As far as addressing a points system now? Well...that is kinda part of the discussion on what project to choose is it not? How about suggesting something positive that directs the team in the direction it needs to go? Do you prefer a specific project? How about you tell the masses what that is? What is your solution to this problem? Don't just sit back grumbling. Help shape the future. The past is gone. As one of the team's biggest contributors, it kinda makes sense for you help steer them too.

Oh and for answering #1... not really. I asked what project(s) and you did not say one or any. You tried dissing a platform that is used by many projects that is molded and shaped according to the projects needs. And there are also DC projects other than FAH or BOINC related... Like I said above. Come out with your choice of project and campaign for it....
 
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LOL

The truth of the matter is the system is broken and non motivational that is why DC is failing today unless DC comes up with some kind of system that motivates individuals it is going to be tough to motivate teams and team members. It is a fact that DC is currently loosing support from the general public. Comments like the one you made in another thread is not motivational at all.
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Originally Posted by Gilthanis View Post


Edit: I will also point out that by having a single "official" project, it makes it easier for the point whores to be consistent on their bragging so that there is little bickering about how points compare between projects and the fairness of such.
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Do you really think that comment motivated anyone or that it was necessary. Do not lecture me on what I say or do until you clean up your own garden. :rolleyes:

By the way this thread is titled So....... and the OP was What happened to this place? just in case you did not know the subject you are trying to cover is located in another thread located at this link http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1871303 an is titled Discussion about the future of the [H] DC team and if I had an opinion I would have posted it there. But you know that because that iis where that highly motivational comment was made. :(
 
And yet there is no denying the truth in that statement. If the point whores want to brag about nothing more than their points, a single project to do it in would be best and consistent by eliminating discussion on how one project scores entirely different than another.

I think the term you aren't liking is the term "whore". However, the individuals that constantly seek out points rather than project progress are across the DC board referred to as such. And you know as well as I do, that there are quite a few of those out there. I'm not the first to use that term nor will I be the last.
 
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LOL

And there is also no denying the term is of no use and is unnecessary.
 
The problem is that doing DC doesn't provide a common enemy like F@H did. It became an us vs. them and this provided SOOOO much passion, teamwork, and dedication . People love to hate something. With that being said, after hating evga, they then had to hate something else, and since BA is gonna die, it became F@H itself.

At least, this is my take.
 
sc0tty8 said:
The problem is that doing DC doesn't provide a common enemy like F@H did. It became an us vs. them and this provided SOOOO much passion, teamwork, and dedication . People love to hate something. With that being said, after hating evga, they then had to hate something else, and since BA is gonna die, it became F@H itself.

At least, this is my take.
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Wise words here. Got any potential solutions to throw in? It seems change is needed. But what change must it be? If we are to remain with FAH, then people need to bury the hatchet. If it isn't, then people need to start making their decisions on where to steer the team.
 
Gilthanis said:
Wise words here. Got any potential solutions to throw in? It seems change is needed. But what change must it be? If we are to remain with FAH, then people need to bury the hatchet. If it isn't, then people need to start making their decisions on where to steer the team.
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  1. Ease. People like easy. How long to get to doing BOINC vs. F@H?
  2. Points-these never work, period. There is a flaw in every system and no one feels like earned their fair share.
  3. Cost, hardware and electrical can get very expensinsive. I do not miss the $500+ power bills, likewise my wife is probably happier with less heat and noise.
  4. Focus. F@H we had a project and a team to fight against. How about BOINC? You have many projects/teams.

I think it needs to be more focused overall. What is H going to hang its hat on in the DC community? Has a direction been defined?
 
No it hasn't which is why we keep asking what project people would like and very few will answer that question. And again, it isn't BOINC or non-BOINC we are asking. We are asking for a project. So if you want WCG, that is a project. If you want GPUGrid, that is a project. BOINC is not an answer that applies to this question. Answering with BOINC is the reason people keep complaining about too many projects. They aren't GETTING the question or they would respond with an actual project name.
 
Gilthanis said:
No it hasn't which is why we keep asking what project people would like and very few will answer that question.
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This is where I stopped. Sounds like you just gotta say "we are going to do this one" and then its time to dev a plan. Find a few good men and delegate. Pick the one that will be focused on, use H appliance as base, determine what, if anything needs to be changed in order to get ready. Provided step by step pics/steps to complete. Promote. Identify another project and rinse/repeat. I imagine there has to be challenges out there as well to partake in.

There are 100's of projects. I would sticky these and list them out more as an 'FYI', but only if prior step is done.

Another issue is completing tasks we set out to complete as well.(t-shirts). Need to complete full circle. Everyone has ideas and very few will put their foot fwd. We all these "arm chair ____".

If no one is in charge everyone is in charge. If no one has a plan everyone has no plan.
 
The problem with that is that nobody wants to listen to a member of the team. They want someone with Team authority which pretty much only one person truly has by design and he really doesn't have much to do with it...

So, Pocatello asked what everyone wants, so that we can present that and get this ball a rolling. It just seems like some members just can't spit out a project name to go with no matter how much you prod them. Each question/issue you present is a step to take. The first step is getting people to spit out their choice of project. If you can't do that, than you are part of the problem. The team has stagnated for too long. It is time people stop fighting the attempts to make it better. When someone asks you black or white, your answer should not be space aliens.
 
Gilthanis said:
If we are to remain with FAH, then people need to bury the hatchet.
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I made a choice last week to test a system back on FAH to see how bad it performs now that BA is gone. My 64-core AMD box gkar is getting a paltry 270K PPD but it's contributing to science. :p
 
Yeah... I have a single core laptop that barely boots that is still on FAH...nowhere near those points...lol But it is still running it.
 
Gilthanis said:
The problem with that is that nobody wants to listen to a member of the team. They want someone with Team authority which pretty much only one person truly has by desi...
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Give yourself permission to lead. You have been a team leader in my eyes.

What do you need me to do oh captain oh captain?
 
Actually I have no hatchet with F@H to burry and plan on running F@H again I just do not currently feel I have enough of the right equipment for F@H but I do plan on adding a few more 980's before too long.. PG's move to GPU will make it more economical and easier in the long run, my DC budget will greatly appreciate it. :)
 
Once long ago, the team was being pulled between multiple projects. At the time Kyle was more involved in the idea of DC and he picked two and that was what we did. One of the projects shutdown, and then there was only one. I do not recall reading anything else from Kyle, so in my eyes, there still is only one project.

I have said that I might shut down running FAH, due to some of the crap that project management has done, but in the end, I have just scaled back up as the project stabilized again.

Think on this. The owner of the web site still has policies in place that his employees still advertise FAH every Monday and Friday. That is either completely out dated, or we have completely lost our way. It is Kyle's site, we should at least listen to his guidance.

I am open to ideas, but this is my $0.02.

John
 
Grandpa_01 said:
Actually I have no hatchet with F@H to burry and plan on running F@H again I just do not currently feel I have enough of the right equipment for F@H but I do plan on adding a few more 980's before too long.. PG's move to GPU will make it more economical and easier in the long run, my DC budget will greatly appreciate it. :)
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It might be worth seeing what you can get with one of your 4p E5 rigs as a test, you might not be far off 300k per rig - more if you can get the small 97xx WU
 
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