So is ATI's card due to be released in November supposed to oust the 8800gtx?

Stereophile said:
I remember when "top of the line" cost only $300. Geforce 1 DDR. $500 and up for something that gets outdated so quickly is a hard pill to swallow.
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I remember when top of the line was only half that. I paid $140 for my monster3D voodoo1 4meg. :D

I think I got my TNT1 for 129 or 139 also. This was on the day it was released. (STB velocity 4400)
 
CPU pricing is not bad, why because the gap between high - > mid isnt so big in performance. specially when u factor in OCing,
E6420 can be => X6800 but no way in hell can an 8600GTS be => 8800 ULTRA
 
CPU pricing isn't bad if you're only looking at the mid-midhigh range of cpu solutions. take a look at intel's X line of cpu's that cost over a thousand dollars and it just seems hypocritical to me that intel would say that gpus are too expensive.
 
hofan41 said:
CPU pricing isn't bad if you're only looking at the mid-midhigh range of cpu solutions. take a look at intel's X line of cpu's that cost over a thousand dollars and it just seems hypocritical to me that intel would say that gpus are too expensive.
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GPUs are expensive, because their life is severely short these days, sure intel has $1000 cpu, but they have a $160 cpu that can run just as fast. AMD/ATI and nVidia don't have a mid-low end card that can run as fast as their top dog. $500 for a GTX and $150-200 for an 8600GTS? big gap. and btw Intel has always charged big $ for their top of hte line cpu, paid $999 for a p2 400 =p!
 
Hurin said:
Jeez. :rolleyes:

I forget to put a smiley there and suddenly I'm being "grossly rude". . .

But, I do stand by "grossly misinform". . . you were arguing that nvidia (a) has the 9800 on deck as the G92, and (b) has moved up its release date to directly compete with the ATi in order to trounce it and (c) possibly regain the performance crown if ATi manages to beat the 8800gtx/ultra.

Two of those are just factually mistaken. The last one is a false/doubtful premise (since it's unknown --and to my mind, very doubtful-- that ATi will beat the 8800gtx/ultra with what it's releasing this month for $250). If someone is basing a buying decision off your post, then, yes, they are being "grossly misinformed." I'm not sure how you can get the item, release date, and effect of the release wrong and claim to only have made a "minor mistake" that leaves the rest of your post's intent largely intact.

My only point was that not only are some of guessing, or citing guesses, but some of us are even citing the guesses incorrectly.

I think your anger is more based in embarrassment than it is in me being "grossly rude."

However, I could have been more tactful. I apologize for the lack of a smiley or something that might have softened the otherwise (needlessly?) rough edges of my post.
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Chill out, son. I've seen too many of you young bloods slinging your shit around like it's gold. Time to simmer down now.
 
CPU Pricing isn't all that bad. Take for example any of the old AMD FX chips for the s939 pin series. Those processors might be 'old,' and they might be single-core, but they still hold their own I think. Now when games start to demand dual core CPUs, then those old procs won't be doing so hot.

GPUS get worked a lot harder by games it seems. I remember I was so happy when I bought this 7800GT. It works with Oblivion and other nice games, but games like Bioshock eat it alive. I am pretty sure Crysis will make my computer cry.
 
Hurin said:
I'm guessing that you missed the last paragraph in what you quoted.
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This reminds me of a time I was in Africa feeding homeless children. I came home and discovered I had intestinal parasites.

Do you know the moral of this story?
 
dagon11985 said:
This reminds me of a time I was in Africa feeding homeless children. I came home and discovered I had intestinal parasites.

Do you know the moral of this story?
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He knows everything. Bow down to him before he writes you an essay about it.
 
nissanztt90 said:
He knows everything. Bow down to him before he writes you an essay about it.
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Someone who came in breathing fire as you did should probably be able to accept and/or address valid criticizm in the form of a response a bit more readily than you're apparently capable of doing. Instead, all we get in response to valid (if long) counter-arguments is: "Whatever helps you sleep at night, bud". . . and other dismissive cop-out tripe intended to make you seem "above it all" rather than hapless.
 
Hurin said:
Someone who came in breathing fire as you did should probably be able to accept and/or address valid criticizm in the form of a response a bit more readily than you're apparently capable of doing. Instead, all we get in response to valid (if long) counter-arguments is: "Whatever helps you sleep at night, bud". . . and other dismissive cop-out tripe intended to make you seem "above it all" rather than hapless.
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Yep. Either that or theres no point in arguing with you. If i wanted to seem "above it all" id type out nice, long, thought-out responses just like you, trying to seem smart. Its far easier to dismiss you.

Whats odd though is you basically accuse me of ignorance, and this and that, yet you continue to engage me in, according to you, thoughtless discussion. Have you yet realized, youre the only one who cares? Im not going to argue with you anymore, ive noticed IT guys are never fun to argue with. They always resort to arguing semantics and technical BS that doesnt really apply (you turned a speculative arguement over the release date of a video card into an arguement over the meaning of "logic")(who cares?). Ive seen it here, ive seen it elsewhere, ive seen it in industry. You wont be happy until you think everyone thinks your smarter than everyone else.
 
nissanztt90 said:
Yep. Either that or theres no point in arguing with you. If i wanted to seem "above it all" id type out nice, long, thought-out responses just like you, trying to seem smart. Its far easier to dismiss you.

Whats odd though is you basically accuse me of ignorance, and this and that, yet you continue to engage me in, according to you, thoughtless discussion. Have you yet realized, youre the only one who cares? Im not going to argue with you anymore, ive noticed IT guys are never fun to argue with. They always resort to arguing semantics and technical BS that doesnt really apply (you turned a speculative arguement over the release date of a video card into an arguement over the meaning of "logic")(who cares?). Ive seen it here, ive seen it elsewhere, ive seen it in industry. You wont be happy until you think everyone thinks your smarter than everyone else.
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Well, it's not semantics to point out that you are using words in a very peculiar way and then getting irritated when this is pointed out. First you misused "logic" in such a way as to dismiss with a wave of your hand any contrary views. . . and then balked when equally logical alternative views were presented.

Next, you seemed to want to equate "credible" with "official." As though no reports of video card release dates or specs could be "credible" unless they came from nvidia themselves. This too, was easily demonstrated to be a silly contention. Credible =/= official.

That's not "arguing semantics". . . that's pointing out that you really aren't making much sense. And it "applies" insofar as you were stating that people are idiots if they listen to anything but a 6+ month-old nvidia exec's informal comment. Here's how you entered the thread:

Whats amazing is the bullshit these tech sites feed people like you, and you consider it to be right because you see it on more than one website.
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Now the really funny part is that I wasn't even buying into any of the "bs" that sites like the Inq were peddling. I was instead pointing out how someone had misread some of it. But that aside, if you're going to say things like that to people taking part in a discussion, you should be ready to back up what you say without resorting to mangling the meaning of words and then essentially wimping out when things get rough for your untenable position.

So, you can keep "dismissing" me and personally attacking me all you want. But that won't help you make any more sense. But since you've really got nowhere else (of substance) to go with your "arguments". . . I can see why you'd choose that route.

Edit: Or, to put it more succinctly: Please don't come into threads only to attack people and the premise of a thread. If you can't help yourself and must do so, at least have the decency to have a defensible point of view. And finally, if you can't do either of those things, at least be able to admit when you've "got nothing" and go about your business rather than just continuing to personally attack those who took issue with --and substantively commented upon-- your initial tirade.
 
Hurin said:
Well, it's not semantics to point out that you are using words in a very peculiar way and then getting irritated when this is pointed out. First you misused "logic" in such a way as to dismiss with a wave of your hand any contrary views. . . and then balked when equally logical alternative views were presented.

Next, you seemed to want to equate "credible" with "official." As though no reports of video card release dates or specs could be "credible" unless they came from nvidia themselves. This too, was easily demonstrated to be a silly contention. Credible =/= official.

That's not "arguing semantics". . . that's pointing out that you really aren't making much sense. And it "applies" insofar as you were stating that people are idiots if they listen to anything but a 6+ month-old nvidia exec's informal comment. Here's how you entered the thread:

Now the really funny part is that I wasn't even buying into any of the "bs" that sites like the Inq were peddling. I was instead pointing out how someone had misread some of it. But that aside, if you're going to say things like that to people taking part in a discussion, you should be ready to back up what you say without resorting to mangling the meaning of words and then essentially wimping out when things get rough for your untenable position.

So, you can keep "dismissing" me and personally attacking me all you want. But that won't help you make any more sense. But since you've really got nowhere else (of substance) to go with your "arguments". . . I can see why you'd choose that route.

Edit: Or, to put it more succinctly: Please don't come into threads only to attack people and the premise of a thread. If you can't help yourself and must do so, at least have the decency to have a defensible point of view. And finally, if you can't do either of those things, at least be able to admit when you've "got nothing" and go about your business rather than just continuing to personally attack those who took issue with --and substantively commented upon-- your initial tirade.
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Look Captain D, looks like you and me are gonna hafta throw down. I will break your hands with my face outside of Wal-mart. Yeah, that's right. Meet you behind the Super Center! You know I got my glock in lock back.
 
dagon11985 said:
Look Captain D, looks like you and me are gonna hafta throw down. I will break your hands with my face outside of Wal-mart. Yeah, that's right. Meet you behind the Super Center! You know I got my glock in lock back.
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I have no idea what just happened, but I actually laughed.
 
Hurin said:
Well, it's not semantics to point out that you are using words in a very peculiar way and then getting irritated when this is pointed out. First you misused "logic" in such a way as to dismiss with a wave of your hand any contrary views. . . and then balked when equally logical alternative views were presented.

Next, you seemed to want to equate "credible" with "official." As though no reports of video card release dates or specs could be "credible" unless they came from nvidia themselves. This too, was easily demonstrated to be a silly contention. Credible =/= official.

That's not "arguing semantics". . . that's pointing out that you really aren't making much sense. And it "applies" insofar as you were stating that people are idiots if they listen to anything but a 6+ month-old nvidia exec's informal comment. Here's how you entered the thread:

Now the really funny part is that I wasn't even buying into any of the "bs" that sites like the Inq were peddling. I was instead pointing out how someone had misread some of it. But that aside, if you're going to say things like that to people taking part in a discussion, you should be ready to back up what you say without resorting to mangling the meaning of words and then essentially wimping out when things get rough for your untenable position.

So, you can keep "dismissing" me and personally attacking me all you want. But that won't help you make any more sense. But since you've really got nowhere else (of substance) to go with your "arguments". . . I can see why you'd choose that route.

Edit: Or, to put it more succinctly: Please don't come into threads only to attack people and the premise of a thread. If you can't help yourself and must do so, at least have the decency to have a defensible point of view. And finally, if you can't do either of those things, at least be able to admit when you've "got nothing" and go about your business rather than just continuing to personally attack those who took issue with --and substantively commented upon-- your initial tirade.
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You just cant take the hint that your the only one who cares about this, can you? I havent personally attacked you. My defendable point is that nVidia's statements ARE official, which is what anyone with any sort of LOGICAL thinking should believe, over an UNOFFICIAL source. Follow? Its LOGICAL to trust an OFFICIAL source over an UNOFFICIAL source. That was my last attempt. If you want to continue responding with paragraphs of nitty gritty technical crap accusing me of standing down or whatever, you go right ahead because i know its going to make you happy.

EDIT:

logical

adjective
1. capable of or reflecting the capability for correct and valid reasoning; "a logical mind" [ant: illogical]

Such as say, believing an official source over an unofficial source?

Will you please stop caring now? No one else does. It cant be THAT boring in your cubicle that you have to keep coming back to this...

EDIT 2: After reading a bit of your post history, you love to keep coming back with more long, drawn out responses , that argues all kinds of stupid crap that has little value, and that no one really bothers to read. It really must be that boring in your cubicle. I will not be responding to you anymore, so have at it if you wish.
 
nissanztt90 said:
You just cant take the hint that your the only one who cares about this, can you? I havent personally attacked you. My defendable point is that nVidia's statements ARE official, which is what anyone with any sort of LOGICAL thinking should believe, over an UNOFFICIAL source. Follow? Its LOGICAL to trust an OFFICIAL source over an UNOFFICIAL source. That was my last attempt. If you want to continue responding with paragraphs of nitty gritty technical crap accusing me of standing down or whatever, you go right ahead because i know its going to make you happy.

EDIT:

logical

adjective
1. capable of or reflecting the capability for correct and valid reasoning; "a logical mind" [ant: illogical]

Such as say, believing an official source over an unofficial source?

Will you please stop caring now? No one else does. It cant be THAT boring in your cubicle that you have to keep coming back to this...

EDIT 2: After reading a bit of your post history, you love to keep coming back with more long, drawn out responses that no one bothers to read. It really must be that boring in your cubicle. I will not be responding to you anymore, so have at it if you wish.
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Why do you keep saying you don't care, but keep coming back and responding?

Anyways, I find it interesting that you found it necessary to go back over six months to find the last time I got into a debate with someone like this. Incidentally, that debate went that way because he handled disagreements much like you do. And, actually, I don't see anything wrong with the way that was handled on my end. What exactly do you take objection to? That I made my point of view verbosely? You seem to be of the "drive by" flamer type. You want to have your say, and be as inflammatory as you want. . . but anyone who takes issue with what you're saying is somehow just being lame.

After reading a bit of your post history, you love to keep coming back with more long, drawn out responses that no one bothers to read.
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Well, I don't think anyone really cares about this particular discussion. But I find it odd that in the very thread that you provide, there are ample examples of people responding and taking part in the discussion. Indeed, someone is responding to me thusly:
Nicely said, Hurin; with much civility and reason. Thank you, genuinely.
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I don't have anything to be ashamed of in that thread. Whereas you seem to think that I should be ashamed of being able to type fast and make cogent arguments.

Regardless, you've looked up the definition of logic as though that somehow demonstrates something. Someone could easily argue that it is logica to believe a credible unofficial source as well. Indeed, one could argue that it is more logical to take into account more recent, credible (though unofficial) reports than it would be to continue to cling to an extremely dated official report. If you really had any appreciation for the word "logic" that you seem to throw around so loosely, you wouldn't need me to explain this to you.

As for you making personal attacks. . . what you've written already speaks for itself. No, you're not name-calling. But, until this last post, you have wanted to make it about the other person rather than about what he's said about your arguments/positions. And even now, you can't help but make a comment about my 'cubicle'. . . which is funny to me since I'm writing this from home.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is maladjusted or pathetic. Sometimes, they just find your ill-reasoned posts to be interesting in a "can't look away from a car crash" kind of way.
 
Really dont even want to give you the time of day, but i had to thank you...for proving my point.
 
I just read every post in this thread and my conclusion is that it was a complete waste of my time.
 
In terms of the way I post sometimes, I'm a lot like Hurin and never let someone say something I disagree with and get away with it. It's more interesting (and sometimes fun) if the person I disagree with with comes back to defend himself. If Hurin thinks similarly as I do, he's not trying hard to type detailed and clear responses. It's simply a habit to be clear on what he says. And yes, it does take a lot of words to be clear. Take a standard-issue college course. 1-liners won't do you much good. I'll have to side with Hurin on this one. nissanztt90 has gotten to the point where he's brushing off his posts without any clear evidence of understanding what perspective is. I'm not siding with either person on the actual argument though (I'm kinda fuzzy on the subject), but one person clearly seems to argue better than the other.

Anyway, on topic: I usually like to see some juicy rumors to speculate about, but in the end I sure as hell hope AMD/ATI get's their asses into gear.
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
In terms of the way I post sometimes, I'm a lot like Hurin and never let someone say something I disagree with and get away with it. It's more interesting (and sometimes fun) if the person I disagree with with comes back to defend himself. I'm not siding with either person on the actual argument though If Hurin thinks similarly as I do, he's not trying hard to type detailed and clear responses. It's simply a habit to be clear on what he says. And yes, it does take a lot of words to be clear. Take a standard-issue college course. 1-liners won't do you much good. I'll have to side with Hurin on this one. nissanztt90 has gotten to the point where he's brushing off his posts without any clear evidence of understanding what perspective is. I'm not siding with either person on the actual argument though (I'm kinda fuzzy on the subject), but one person clearly seems to argue better than the other.

Anyway, on topic: I usually like to see some juicy rumors to speculate about, but in the end I sure as hell hope AMD/ATI get's their asses into gear.
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"I'm a lot like Hurin and never let someone say something I disagree with and get away with it."

That good, in a sense. Just make sure people give a damn about what your saying. Hurin fails immensly at this. (Anyone can type paragraph arguing their point, but the best (and most worth of reading can sum it up in a sentence or two) which is about what the average person is willing to read. (from my personal forum experience that is.))

"I'll have to side with Hurin on this one. "

6 words later...

"I'm not siding with either person on the actual argument though "

Do you actually expect anyone to take you seriously after those statments?

"he's not trying hard to type detailed and clear responses. It's simply a habit to be clear on what he says"

Hes butchering the definition of logic in his favor, with out pointing out the other definitions. Yes, its logical to believe a credible source thats not as old as nVidias. Show me one? And despite what you said, yes, hes trying.

"Take a standard-issue college course."

Ive taken plenty. Have you?

"nissanztt90 has gotten to the point where he's brushing off his posts without any clear evidence of understanding what perspective is"

What "persepective" would that be? Believing an official statment from the manufacture over a website that wants ad traffic?

"but one person clearly seems to argue better than the other."

Like John Kerry, right? Oh wait, everything he said was completely full of shit but he made quite a significant amount of the american public believe him. Time to learn: Just because you can "argue" a point, doesnt mean your the slightest bit right.

Hurin: Dont respond.

"but in the end I sure as hell hope AMD/ATI get's their asses into gear"

Agreed, absolutely 100%. Competition is only good for consumers.

Edit: Why the hell am i not sleeping?
 
SpeedyVV said:
Do I need a fan to overclock my CPU? What about thermal Paste? :p
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Depends how far you want to OC and how good your chip is. I have an e6700 OCed 10% for months with no issues on the stock intel POS hsfan. I think i have thermal paste though. Ive been running at 3.0 ghz with my PC on all the time for close to a year now.

Edit: Your "rank" says noobie, which is why i tried to help, but your smiley face says sarcsim, which makes me feel retarded; Correct me if im wrong.
 
woa nelly. this isnt "two love birds" this is an orgy!

Your all homos and Matrox's new graphics card is going to own everything from AMD and Nvidia.
 
MrWizard6600 said:
woa nelly. this isnt "two love birds" this is an orgy!

Your all homos and Matrox's new graphics card is going to own everything from AMD and Nvidia.
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The Perhelia 10000 Pro Ultra Platinum Type R, you mean? I hear they have it taped out in a secret underground dev house in China. It's the world's first quad slot single card, or so I'm told, and uses a combination of 4 breakout boxes with custom dongles to drive up to 10 displays simultaneously at full res via dual-link DVI and DisplayPort, and it does 16x AA / AF for free, in hardware.
(note: requires dedicated 1600 watt PSU with its own 20 amp breaker in your house)
 
That good, in a sense. Just make sure people give a damn about what your saying. Hurin fails immensly at this. (Anyone can type paragraph arguing their point, but the best (and most worth of reading can sum it up in a sentence or two) which is about what the average person is willing to read. (from my personal forum experience that is.))
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Giving a damn depends on the person reading it. For example, I choose to read anyone's arguments that are directed toward me, whether long or short. This very wall of text you souped up for me is long-winded, but I am working toward responding to everything.

"I'll have to side with Hurin on this one. "

6 words later...

"I'm not siding with either person on the actual argument though "

Do you actually expect anyone to take you seriously after those statments?
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You've bolded the wrong parts. This is where the emphasis should be:

I'm not siding with either person on the actual argument though
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I side with Hurin on his way of expressing arguments, but I have nothing to say on who's right in the actual argument. If you haven't noticed, everything I said in my post had nothing to do with what you two were arguing about about. It was focused on your abilities to argue. Sorry if it was vague. This is a forum, and I don't review my posts as rigorously as I would an actual assignment. By the way, this is probably a simple mistake while you were making your post, but when you quoted me, you modified my post.

Hes butchering the definition of logic in his favor, with out pointing out the other definitions. Yes, its logical to believe a credible source thats not as old as nVidias. Show me one? And despite what you said, yes, hes trying.
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I'm not sure if he thinks its logical to believe in rumored information, but its something that shouldn't be brushed off easily. He mentioned several times to take the information with a grain of salt.

I do not know how long you've been in these forums, but I can give you a good example where rumored information turned out more accurate than "official" statements. Prior to the g80 release, many people assumed g80 would not have a unified shader architecture. Nvidia said it themselves. This info was MONTHS prior. A few weeks before the official launch, some rumored specs came up. I'm not exactly sure if it mentioned the unified shader architecture, but all the vital specs were listed. Core speed, memory speed, even the weird 512+256 megs of memory were listed. Of course, most people called BS, myself included. Well what do you know, launch day came, and the rumored specs were pretty much spot-on. I am not willing to dig up all of that information however, but I hope someone can chime in on this event.

Ive taken plenty. Have you?
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Yep, I tested into an English 1A class my first year, and have taken logic, philosophy, ethics etc. Wait a minute, this sentence wasn't directed toward you. Sorry if it was vague, I was trying to make a general statement that there is a good reason to write long posts.

What "persepective" would that be? Believing an official statment from the manufacture over a website that wants ad traffic?
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That's your perspective, and it seems thats the only perspective you can understand. The point of understanding perspective is to try and rationalize a position no matter how much you personally oppose it. Whether you continue to disagree with it or not, if you can't somehow see where they're getting at, you haven't understood perspective. There's a clear difference between understanding it, and agreeing with it. With the example I gave you a couple quotes above, you should see why some people can have a different (and logical) perspective than you.

Like John Kerry, right? Oh wait, everything he said was completely full of shit but he made quite a significant amount of the american public believe him. Time to learn: Just because you can "argue" a point, doesnt mean your the slightest bit right.
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I'm not exacty sure if John Kerry argued with the masses... He may have fed them a lot of BS but he didn't argue his way through them, did he? If he argued with anyone, it would be the competition: Bush. I hardly even call that an argument. It was more like a questionnaire where they indirectly flamed each other while answering; effectively talking past each other. The arguments I'm talking about are the ones that actually get somewhere (or at least try to), and I think Hurin's posts were more along those lines than yours.

Anyhow, I don't mean to show any hostility to you or anyone for that matter. I simply sided to someone who, in my opinion, argued more effectively. Though most of this post is off-topic, I'm giving my perspective on the arguments that had been brought up here.

Also, I'm glad you didn't brush off my post with a 1-liner or anything. I'll take back the "bushing off" jab I took at you earlier.

woa nelly. this isnt "two love birds" this is an orgy!

Your all homos and Matrox's new graphics card is going to own everything from AMD and Nvidia.
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Wow, I've never seen 3 birds go at it before. I'm in for a treat O_O! Oh wait I'm in it.
 
You know i can pretty much respect, understand, and for the most part agree with everything you said...and no i didnt even realize i modified your post, that was a mistake.
 
So what does everyone think of the new ATI cards coming out? I hope they fixed the AA performance hit.
 
Well, I baught a Maxamus SE X38 board, and it supports crossfire. My modular PSU is crossfire certified too. I was thinking I would probably end up with a nVidia card, but not sure now?

I think 1 GPU is best, but if ATI has a winner, I wouldn't complain about running crossfire some day...

AA must work, or for me or it's a deal breaker. It wouldn't matter how fast the card was.

I do hope ATI comes out with a 1 teraflop or higher speed deamon. It would make me give them a hard look again. ;)
 
Imbroglio said:
anybody else read the recent CPU magazine about how intel has plans to start making gpus as well, stating that the price of a modern day gpu is way too high. they are looking to come out with high end cards at the current mid-range budget, I have a feeling next year will be fun indeed :) (Page 100 in Nov'07)
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I certainly hope that Intel will release a great GPU. GPU prices have gotten totally out of hand. For the past 3 releases, you haven't been able to touch a good part at release for under $300. Parts like the 7900 GS, the 1950 Pro and the 6800 GT were great, but remember how long it took to actually see those parts. Even the 8800 GTS 320 took a good 6 months to become widely available, and many of those were well over $300 for a long while.

I know GPUs are expensive to make, but when you consider that you can get a decent motherboard and CPU for less than the cost of the graphics card, it's clear that they are just plain overpriced. Who *isn't* running a system where the GPU was the most expensive component in the box, even if you price the MB + RAM or CPU + MB together? On a system with a GTX, I'd say most of the time, the CPU + MB *and* RAM cost less than the GPU.

My GTS 640 MB cost ~ $400. My MB, GA-DSR3 was $129, CPU E4400 was $ 120, and the RAM DDR-900 $160. By itself, the GPU was basically the same price as everything else, and I could have saved a buck or two putting all three at less than the GPU.

Also consider something else that has greatly bothered me with the last few GPU releases. Has anyone else noticed how crappy quality control has gotten for these expensive cards? It isn't unique to either ATI or NVidia, nor their AIB retailers. They are charging a fortune for these cards compared to most everthing else in the system, and honestly they often are the part that ends up with a problem most often. For a part that costs that much, we really should be getting fans that aren't loud, and cards that don't overheat. You would think that with what we are paying for them, they could design cards with better cooling. My card doesn't overheat and isn't particularly loud, but that is only because I spend so much on case cooling. For many "normal" systems, that isn't the case with people who also spent $300 + on their GPU. Things like annoying rattles and stickers that are peeling off should not be a problem when you are spending this much money on a component.
 
This thread is funy,even though the topic at hand was mentioned once in a while.The hd2950 is to be a more capable card with faster clock speeds,runs cooler,and support 10.1 which is aa4 si to be standard,from what I've read.Now because its suppose to be faster than the hd2900xt people are saying its faster than the 8800gtx/ultra.With 256 of ddr4 it will be very limited in what it can really do.I think 2Q 08 AMD will be very STRONG with its combo=Phenom-790fx(m/board)-R700.
 
Well. I thought this was over. Even let nissan get the last word. :p

That's your perspective, and it seems thats the only perspective you can understand. The point of understanding perspective is to try and rationalize a position no matter how much you personally oppose it. Whether you continue to disagree with it or not, if you can't somehow see where they're getting at, you haven't understood perspective. There's a clear difference between understanding it, and agreeing with it. With the example I gave you a couple quotes above, you should see why some people can have a different (and logical) perspective than you.
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That's pretty much it.

Our mutual friend came in, got what I was saying wrong, unfairly and inaccurately lumped anyone not subscribing to his way of thinking together as Inq-reading idiots that believe all the "BS" they throw out. . . and then when I tried to point out to him that things aren't quite that simple, he starts throwing the word "logic" around as though it's some sort of "I win" card.

It's really this simple: Logical and reasonable people can disagree about whether to trust a source or continue to believe increasingly outdated information. Indeed, logical and reasonable people can disagree on what is to be considered "credible" or "not credible." Except for the Inq. They always suck. :)

If nissan were capable of just saying: "I don't think it makes much sense to trust these unconfirmed reports from unofficial sources over the information we received directly from nvidia several months ago". . . there wouldn't be a problem. But instead, he feels the need to denigrate others (while making a point with which I largely agree, incidentally).

In terms of the way I post sometimes, I'm a lot like Hurin and never let someone say something I disagree with and get away with it.
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For the record though, I don't tend to post just because I see something with which I disagree. However, when I see faulty reasoning, unwarranted certainty, false information, or just something silly (usually also stated with certainty), I often find it difficult to remain quiet. Especially if the person posting such things is taking a tone of superiority and/or (at least obliquely) demeaning others when they themselves are refusing to take into account other reasonable (logical) views.

My favorite part:
Hurin: Dont respond.
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Really? Seriously? You really feel it's appropriate to continue to directly say all that about me (to a third party, no less) and then just demand that I not respond? Does that seem reasonable or fair to you?

In another two months, nvidia will either have released their new top-end card or not. The various (ever-growing) number of sources stating that there will be no new top-tier nv card in Q4 will either be proven wrong or not. You need to ask yourself: If they are proven right, and there is no top-tier nv card released in Q4, how could you have been so wrong while still being the only one who was thinking logically? And, related to that question, if someone took into account other concerns, reports, and sources, and decided to start doubting the prior, official report to which you are clinging, and ends up being correct, might it have been logical for him to start doubting the increasingly outdated information and instead start giving credence to statements by Kyle, and several other sources (not all on the same level as The Inq)? Seriously, man, can't you see how you aren't the only one here thinking "logically" and that reasonable people can disagree? And don't you see how it's actually offensive to assert that anyone who disagrees with you is both behaving illogically and twisting the meaning of the word "logic?"
 
Hurin said:
Well. I thought this was over. Even let nissan get the last word. :p

That's pretty much it.

Our mutual friend came in, got what I was saying wrong, unfairly and inaccurately lumped anyone not subscribing to his way of thinking together as Inq-reading idiots that believe all the "BS" they throw out. . . and then when I tried to point out to him that things aren't quite that simple, he starts throwing the word "logic" around as though it's some sort of "I win" card.

It's really this simple: Logical and reasonable people can disagree about whether to trust a source or continue to believe increasingly outdated information. Indeed, logical and reasonable people can disagree on what is to be considered "credible" or "not credible." Except for the Inq. They always suck. :)

For the record though, I don't tend to post just because I see something with which I disagree. However, when I see faulty reasoning, unwarranted certainty, false information, or just something silly (usually also stated with certainty), I often find it difficult to remain quite. Especially if the person posting such things is taking a tone of superiority and/or (at least obliquely) demeaning others when they themselves aren't taking into account other reasonable views.

My favorite part:
Really? Seriously? You really feel it's appropriate to continue to directly say all that about me (to a third party, no less) and then just demand that I not respond? Does that seem reasonable or fair to you?
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Somehow i just knew you wouldnt be able to resist.
 
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