So I have a UPS or PSU problem?

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Gambler_3

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I have a 1000W UPS powering my computer, monitor and router. I sometimes experience power shutdowns so the UPS gives me enough time to save anything I am doing. However today I think for the first time there was a power shutdown while I was playing a game. My PC "restarted" and showed this message,

14681740_10157523071735316_9024716337037549048_n.jpg


Now the power is still out and the PC is still running. I pressed F1, got into the BIOS and then got into Windows as well all the while the power is out and UPS is running. So the UPS can't be at fault here can it? Just to make sure the UPS isn't getting overpowered I later ran a stress test, turned off my monitor and then shut off power for a few seconds before restoring it. I still got the same screen as above. Just to remove any doubt about the UPS' capacity being enough for my PC at load I plugged in my speakers to the UPS, full on blasted them and cut off the power. For 10 seconds everything was going smooth the speakers, the monitor and the idle PC playing music. I restored power after that so I suppose the UPS really is off the hook I would think.

If the power loss occurs while the system is not under stress nothing happens and everything keeps running smoothly with the monitor on till the UPS has the juice.

However if this is just a PSU problem then why is it never a problem when there is power? I mean if a PSU is underpowered or malfunctioning then it should show problems whenever the system is stressed which I have never ever experienced yet. If there is a power loss then what does that have to do with the PSU? But then the UPS should have zero issues in terms of pure power with my computer at full load without the monitor in the equation.

So could it just be that the ASUS board is being "over smart"? Is it safe to try to see what happens in the event of a power loss after turning off ASUS anti surge support?

I have a Corsair GS 600W PSU and my PC is just a single GPU configuration with GTX 1070.
 
Battery in the UPS is probably getting old, not up to task of handling the system at full load.
 
How old is the UPS? A good UPS should be able to transition from AC to battery and back with no issues noted by your machine. A good PSU should be able to handle some variation in the input power with no issues noted by the machine. Your UPS might have been slow to switch under heavy load and that injected a ripple into the PSU that it couldn't smooth completely.

Some UPS problems won't pop up until they're loaded, more than just a speaker set and monitor. There's a whole lot of variables in this problem though, so unless it occurs again, I wouldn't worry about it.

If you really want to test it, power things up, load your computer to the max (get some GPU and CPU benchmarks running full tilt), then unplug the UPS from the wall and see what happens.
 
Bandalo said:
How old is the UPS? A good UPS should be able to transition from AC to battery and back with no issues noted by your machine. A good PSU should be able to handle some variation in the input power with no issues noted by the machine. Your UPS might have been slow to switch under heavy load and that injected a ripple into the PSU that it couldn't smooth completely.

Some UPS problems won't pop up until they're loaded, more than just a speaker set and monitor. There's a whole lot of variables in this problem though, so unless it occurs again, I wouldn't worry about it.

If you really want to test it, power things up, load your computer to the max (get some GPU and CPU benchmarks running full tilt), then unplug the UPS from the wall and see what happens.
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The UPS is around 10 months old, it does have a 1 year warranty and is recommended to replace it after that.

I have in fact did what you are suggesting and I laid it out in the OP. When at full load unplugging the UPS always restarts the PC with the surge warning from the motherboard. This happens even if ONLY the PC is connected i.e. no monitor or anything else.

Unplugging the UPS while the computer is at idle does not restart the PC even when the monitor and speakers are connected and running.
 
I've had issues in the past with several Line-Interactive UPSes not being able to switch fast enough when PC is under load. After switching to a Double-Conversion UPS that has never once been an issue. Also, if your UPS isn't outputting a pure sine wave then it's possible that could be the issue.
 
Gambler_3 said:
The UPS is around 10 months old, it does have a 1 year warranty and is recommended to replace it after that.

I have in fact did what you are suggesting and I laid it out in the OP. When at full load unplugging the UPS always restarts the PC with the surge warning from the motherboard. This happens even if ONLY the PC is connected i.e. no monitor or anything else.

Unplugging the UPS while the computer is at idle does not restart the PC even when the monitor and speakers are connected and running.
Click to expand...


Sounds like the UPS just isn't switching fast enough for your PSU when loaded. What's the brand and model? Have you googled for anyone having similar issues with that type? If it's a reputable brand, you might want to look into an RMA. Most of the decent ones should shift fast enough to avoid that sort of behavior.

mhenley said:
I've had issues in the past with several Line-Interactive UPSes not being able to switch fast enough when PC is under load. After switching to a Double-Conversion UPS that has never once been an issue. Also, if your UPS isn't outputting a pure sine wave then it's possible that could be the issue.
Click to expand...

A double conversion would probably solve the problem pretty quick, but they're pretty expensive for home use.
 
mhenley said:
I've had issues in the past with several Line-Interactive UPSes not being able to switch fast enough when PC is under load. After switching to a Double-Conversion UPS that has never once been an issue. Also, if your UPS isn't outputting a pure sine wave then it's possible that could be the issue.
Click to expand...

That would be my guess as well. The low-end UPS units do not put out pure sine wave AC. Many computer PSUs don't like that.
I spent more money on a pure sine wave UPS (Cyberpower 1500PFCLCD) for my server because I didn't want the pseudo sine wave cheap units.

This is also an issue with gas generators. Be careful powering sensitive electronics from a gas generator in a power outage.
More expensive generators feature true sine wave AC power.

We have the November discount season close at hand and that's when I bought mine last year. Amazon had a great price on the Cyberpower UPS.

http://promotions.newegg.com/Cyberpower/11-3370/index.html?cm_sp=BrandStore_CyberPower-_-Cyberpower/11-3370-_-http://promotions.newegg.com/Cyberpower/11-3370/234x124.jpg

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I got suckered into the pure sine wave gimmick, the truth is until something like this happens, you don't actually know if your power supply needs pure sine wave or not. Also just to point out it's unlikely you have a 1000W Ups, its probably 1000VA, which nets you maybe 650W of capacity max.

Moving on, that power supply is active PFC, which indicates that it is probably why it's rebooting, it's not up to task of handling the simulated sine wave. I have one pure sine wave, and three simulated sine wave UPS units, and nothing I have ended up needing pure sine wave. My ancient corsair HX1000, girlfriend's corsair RM850 (active PFC,) and my server's EVGA Supernova B2 750w all have no issues with my APC or Cyberpower simulated sine wave. I thought the corsair would need it, or possibly future upgrades, so I grabbed one pure sine wave. In my case, it hasn't been useful yet. You were unlucky enough to get a PSU that has a design that can't handle the simulated sine wave.

Speaking of which, post up the model of your UPS, that could help the discussion out too.
 
>>I got suckered into the pure sine wave gimmick

Not a gimmick at all. You can see the difference on a scope.
Clean power is always better.

The pure sine wave units are better for your electronics regardless if they don't reset with
the pseudo sine wave units. The resets are not the measuring stick to go by.

.
 
The Corsair GS600 doesn't have a very large Bulk Cap. As such, it's hold up time is kind of shitty. Wouldn't surprise me if thats the issue.
 
Jorona said:
The Corsair GS600 doesn't have a very large Bulk Cap. As such, it's hold up time is kind of shitty. Wouldn't surprise me if thats the issue.
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That's likely the actual issue, and getting a pure sine wave model of UPS won't necessarily address the problem. In this case it's a problem of line interactive vs on line style of switch over, that takes too long for the power supply to be able to cope. It's likely cheaper to replace the power supply than the UPS in this case. Might take a bit of homework or just getting some good recommendations to find units with good quality bulk capacitors.
 
Jorona said:
The Corsair GS600 doesn't have a very large Bulk Cap. As such, it's hold up time is kind of shitty. Wouldn't surprise me if thats the issue.
Click to expand...

It's certainly a valid point that the particular PSU in question may be more sensitive to any UPS with regards to it's switch time to battery.
Better PSUs will be less sensitive, and better UPSs will switch faster.

Buy good PSUs and good UPSs and you'll have fewer issues like this.

.
 
Just to update the thread. The UPS I had was in fact a 1050VA not 1050W which I wasn't aware of. It was from a company named Intex. I have now bought a 1500VA UPS from another Chinese brand and everything works perfectly. I was going to splurge for a known brand had it not worked but it does.
 
Okay I spoke too soon. This one also shuts down when my PC is at full load. There is no way this one doesn't have enough capacity. I guess I really have to splurge for APC but damn they are so expensive.
 
Does your PC PS have Auto Power Factor Correction feature? That sometimes reacts poorly to the simulated sine wave a lot of UPS generate. Often the PS will just shut down if it detects a poorly formed sine wave. While the UPS is on main power, the main sine wave is just passed through, so everything works fine, when the UPS switches, it starts making the simulated sine wave. So your problem could be the PS can't hold the PC up long enough for the UPS to switch to battery and stabilize, or it could not play well with the simulated sine wave.

I went through APC tech support hell over this issue years ago when PFC feature in PS were new. APC blamed the PS company, the PS company blamed APC. Oddly, an ancient APC Backups 600 worked just fine but its serial port wasn't supported native by the then fairly new Win 7. A Cyberpower UPS fixed the problem.
 
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