So confused...ATI or Nvidia????

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brasscorpion

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
95
Sorry guys but I have read hundreds of articles and I still can't decide what makes ATI better or what makes GeForce cards better. I am having a real hard time comparing specs and trying to determine which card is faster or better.

If I were to buy a GeForce card this is the one I want
XFX PVT71PUDD3 GeForce 7900GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card $189.00 from Newegg

Chipset Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Core clock: 600MHz
DirectX: DirectX 9
DVI: 2
Memory Clock: 1600MHz
Memory Interface: 256-bit
OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
PixelPipelines: 20
TV-Out: HDTV / S-Video Out
VIVO: No

For the same price point it looks like I can get a 1950PRO like this one.
ASUS EAX1950PRO/HTDP/256M Radeon X1950PRO GDDR3 PCI Express x16

Chipset Manufacturer: ATI
Core clock: 581MHz
DirectX: DirectX 9
DVI: 2
Memory Clock: 1400MHz
Memory Interface: 256-bit
OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
PixelPipelines: 12(36 Pixel shader processor )
TV-Out: HDTV / S-Video/Composite Out
VIVO: No


The ATI card only has 12 pixel pipelines but has in (parentheses) 36 pixel shaders. I thought that for a set budget a person should always choose a card that has more pixel pipelines???

Which one dollar for dollar is faster??? ATI or Nvidia???
 
That XFX card is running at 600MHz/1600MHz and should be faster for most games (except for Oblivion).
 
Xonitex said:
That XFX card is running at 600MHz/1600MHz and should be faster for most games (except for Oblivion).
Click to expand...
That XFX card is manufacturer overclocked and faster than the standard clocked one, not fast enough to beat the X1950 pro in most games though.

For OP, I would go with the X1950 pro if you can get them at almost the same price, a little better performance, better image quality, better performance with AntiAliasing on.
 
Higher clocks or more memory don't make it a faster card. All has to do with the gpu.
 
brasscorpion said:
Sorry guys but I have read hundreds of articles and I still can't decide what makes ATI better or what makes GeForce cards better. I am having a real hard time comparing specs and trying to determine which card is faster or better.

If I were to buy a GeForce card this is the one I want
XFX PVT71PUDD3 GeForce 7900GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card $189.00 from Newegg

Chipset Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Core clock: 600MHz
DirectX: DirectX 9
DVI: 2
Memory Clock: 1600MHz
Memory Interface: 256-bit
OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
PixelPipelines: 20
TV-Out: HDTV / S-Video Out
VIVO: No

For the same price point it looks like I can get a 1950PRO like this one.
ASUS EAX1950PRO/HTDP/256M Radeon X1950PRO GDDR3 PCI Express x16

Chipset Manufacturer: ATI
Core clock: 581MHz
DirectX: DirectX 9
DVI: 2
Memory Clock: 1400MHz
Memory Interface: 256-bit
OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
PixelPipelines: 12(36 Pixel shader processor )
TV-Out: HDTV / S-Video/Composite Out
VIVO: No


The ATI card only has 12 pixel pipelines but has in (parentheses) 36 pixel shaders. I thought that for a set budget a person should always choose a card that has more pixel pipelines???

Which one dollar for dollar is faster??? ATI or Nvidia???
Click to expand...

Get the X1950 Pro. Of the two you selected, it's the best one.
 
In the middle segment, ATI's HQ AF makes their cards have a much better image quality than nVidia, albeit at a speed loss. In the high-end market however, nVidia holds the crown in both speed and image quality. Using the info you provided, I'd say the X1950Pro would be a good choice.

Of course, you also forgot to tell us what monitor/resolution you play at.
 
brasscorpion said:
Sorry guys but I have read hundreds of articles and I still can't decide what makes ATI better or what makes GeForce cards better. I am having a real hard time comparing specs and trying to determine which card is faster or better.

If I were to buy a GeForce card this is the one I want
XFX PVT71PUDD3 GeForce 7900GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card $189.00 from Newegg

Chipset Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Core clock: 600MHz
DirectX: DirectX 9
DVI: 2
Memory Clock: 1600MHz
Memory Interface: 256-bit
OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
PixelPipelines: 20
TV-Out: HDTV / S-Video Out
VIVO: No

For the same price point it looks like I can get a 1950PRO like this one.
ASUS EAX1950PRO/HTDP/256M Radeon X1950PRO GDDR3 PCI Express x16

Chipset Manufacturer: ATI
Core clock: 581MHz
DirectX: DirectX 9
DVI: 2
Memory Clock: 1400MHz
Memory Interface: 256-bit
OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
PixelPipelines: 12(36 Pixel shader processor )
TV-Out: HDTV / S-Video/Composite Out
VIVO: No


The ATI card only has 12 pixel pipelines but has in (parentheses) 36 pixel shaders. I thought that for a set budget a person should always choose a card that has more pixel pipelines???

Which one dollar for dollar is faster??? ATI or Nvidia???
Click to expand...

The X1950Pro is actually the faster card as others here have said. The thing is you can't compare pixel pipelines from one brand of card to the next. (Speaking only of GPUs) Each GPU has a different architecture and some architectures are more effecient than others. Just because the ATI card has few pixel pipelines doesn't make it the slower card. Clock speed, effeciency, and other architectural differences combined with memory bus, memory bandwidth, memory latency all make a world of difference in such comparisons.

An example of this would be with the Geforce 7900GTX vs the X1900XTX. The Geforce 7900GTX has 24 pixel pipelines and the X1900XTX has 48. The X1900XTX is not double the speed of the 7900GTX.
 
I have about $200-250 to spend on a GPU. I am putting together a new system from scratch. New motherboard, new Case, GPU, Memory, fans. Keeping my old drives though. Running Windows XP Pro. Currently have a VERRRRRYYYY old system.

Right now the only thing that is set in stone is that I have chosen to use the AM2 platform. I have also chosen to use 1 of these 2 motherboards as my starting point.

ECS KA3 MVP
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135024
ECS KN3 SLI2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135040

Both are pretty much the same board but with different CHIPSETS. One is based on the ATI 3200 the other Nvidia 590. Both allow me to use my old EIDE drives and EIDE DVD/RW drive. I will upgrade to SATA later, which both MoBo's will allow.

I am not trying to build a BUDGET system. I just chose these MoBo's because I am not a big overclock person and don't need the level of customization that an Asus Crosshair (or equal) provides and as I said earlier I need the 2 EIDE ports to start...I plan on spending the bulk of my money on the GPU, Memory and Processor.

Right now I am just having a hard time deciding what GPU chip to go with. The ATI brand or Nvidia. I also have decided to go 1 step back in GPU technology...so I can get the best bang for the buck...so I decided to stay away from the 8800 and the 1900XTX level.

If I buy an ATI 3200 based MoBo (the KA3)...do I need to then purchase an ATI GPU???
 
My bad; I looked up some reviews of a 7900GS clocked at 600MHz and the X1950 Pro is indeed faster. Sorry about that.

brasscorpion, you do not need to buy an ATI card if your chipset is also ATI.
 
IceDigger said:
Higher clocks or more memory don't make it a faster card. All has to do with the gpu.
Click to expand...
Higher clocks will make it a faster card if the clocks are significant enough. In this case, they aren't. Still, that 7900GS will run faster than one clocked at reference speeds.
 
Xonitex said:
Higher clocks will make it a faster card if the clocks are significant enough. In this case, they aren't. Still, that 7900GS will run faster than one clocked at reference speeds.
Click to expand...

Not by much...

The X1950 is a very good card Brass, it looks amazing in-game too.
 
Xonitex said:
Higher clocks will make it a faster card if the clocks are significant enough. In this case, they aren't. Still, that 7900GS will run faster than one clocked at reference speeds.
Click to expand...

Obviously, but only to a point. The architecture of the GPU is most important. A test was done a couple years back and it took a Pentium 4 running at 5.0GHz+ to equal the Athlon FX-55 (Or was it 57?). Since that wasn't a realistic overclock for most people, the Pentium 4 really could never truely equal or definitively best the highest end AMD part no matter what you did. This was because the Netburst architecture was outmatched, and while it provided better performance than many Athlon and Athlon XP parts, it could not match the Athlon 64 at hardly anything.
 
Dan_D said:
Obviously, but only to a point. The architecture of the GPU is most important. A test was done a couple years back and it took a Pentium 4 running at 5.0GHz+ to equal the Athlon FX-55 (Or was it 57?). Since that wasn't a realistic overclock for most people, the Pentium 4 really could never truely equal or definitively best the highest end AMD part no matter what you did. This was because the Netburst architecture was outmatched, and while it provided better performance than many Athlon and Athlon XP parts, it could not match the Athlon 64 at hardly anything.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know that architecture is much more significant (i.e., Conroe versus Athlon X2 versus Pentium D). I was disputing IceDigger's statement that overclocking has NO impact whatsoever, which it does.

Talking about the Pentium 4 and the Athlon 64's remind me of the days when Intel was the evil company. Poor AMD...
 
Xonitex said:
Yeah, I know that architecture is much more significant (i.e., Conroe versus Athlon X2 versus Pentium D). I was disputing IceDigger's statement that overclocking has NO impact whatsoever, which it does.

Talking about the Pentium 4 and the Athlon 64's remind me of the days when Intel was the evil company. Poor AMD...
Click to expand...

Yes overclocking can indeed have a huge impact on performance.

Intel has always been evil according to many. It doesn't matter if they perform better or worse than AMD's products. I've talked to quite a few individuals, many in the IT profession that will only buy AMD because of their dislike of Intel. Which is not only illiogical, but stupid.

You buy the better quality, better performing product that fits your budget. End of story.
That's the way it should be done. Though bias is a human trait that we all experience now and again.
 
What about the 7900GT vs the 1950?

I'm about ready to do a full upgrade from a AthlonXP 2200/GF6800GT and will need to get a new Vid card.
 
You guys helpped out a lot. Thanks.

I read more reviews on the technology differences of the ATI chipset vs. the nVIDIA chipset.

Basically the 590 SLI vs the 3200X. From what I have read it looks and sounds as though the Geforce GPU's are faster when talking strictly frame rates. Basically they crunch the numbers better and faster...

However it looks as though the ATI GPU's backed by the 3200X chipset gives a much better visual appeal because it has this HD4 or HDR thing that can be ran with AA...something like that. The 7900GS card wouldn't do it.

For me I think I want the cleaner look...I am running a 19" LCD (possibly 20"-25" when I buy my new LCD TV to run as my desk top). So I run 1280-1024 resolutions.

OKAY so now on to the second issue...I will want to run 2 cards (crossfire mode) in about 6 months to a year...after the price drops on the 1950PRO down to about $125. I just read that for my first card I will need to purchase a SPECIAL 1950pro that will then allow me to buy a second one.

Is this true???? I looked on Newegg and it looks like these special "mothership" cards are twice as expensive??? Like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161038

If I have to purchase this for 429...then for me ATI is out the door...I would rather buy 2 ASUS 7900GS TOPS and SLI them right out of the gate with no issues.

Please advise. Thank you.
 
No not true for X1950 pro but it is for X1950 XT and XTX.

For X1950 pro all you need is two cards and a motherboard that supports Crossfire.
The X1950 pro connects the cards the same way Nvidia Sli do with a bridge between the cards.
 
As I posted in another thread, if your budget is around $200, you may want to consider the X1900XT, which is quite a bit faster than both the 7900GS and X1950Pro. It's slightly more expensive but probably worth it. This is assuming it fits, gets enough power, etc. CFing these might be more expensive down the line but might not be necessary considering you're running at 1280 res. Although in a year, the prices will probably come down for these cards also.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814142085
 
brasscorpion said:
You guys helpped out a lot. Thanks.

I read more reviews on the technology differences of the ATI chipset vs. the nVIDIA chipset.

Basically the 590 SLI vs the 3200X. From what I have read it looks and sounds as though the Geforce GPU's are faster when talking strictly frame rates. Basically they crunch the numbers better and faster...
Click to expand...

You should look at the 680i chipset. It overclocks far better.

brasscorpion said:
However it looks as though the ATI GPU's backed by the 3200X chipset gives a much better visual appeal because it has this HD4 or HDR thing that can be ran with AA...something like that. The 7900GS card wouldn't do it.
Click to expand...

The 7900GS can't do it, but the Geforce 8800GTS and 8800GTX can in fact do AA and HDR simultaneously. The motherboard has NOTHING to do with this. An ATI card would work just as well on an NVIDIA chipset based board. You do however need a Crossfire compatible chipset from Intel or ATi to support Crossfire.

brasscorpion said:
For me I think I want the cleaner look...I am running a 19" LCD (possibly 20"-25" when I buy my new LCD TV to run as my desk top). So I run 1280-1024 resolutions.
Click to expand...

Most TV's even the LCD ones suck as monitors. I am not sure what you meant with the rest of the statement.

brasscorpion said:
OKAY so now on to the second issue...I will want to run 2 cards (crossfire mode) in about 6 months to a year...after the price drops on the 1950PRO down to about $125. I just read that for my first card I will need to purchase a SPECIAL 1950pro that will then allow me to buy a second one.

Is this true???? I looked on Newegg and it looks like these special "mothership" cards are twice as expensive??? Like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161038
Click to expand...

No this is not true. The X1950Pro works by using two identical cards with bridge connectors for Crossfire. It's almost exactly like NVIDIA SLI technology in terms of physical implementation. By the time you find X1950Pro's for $129 they won't be that fast anymore.

Other ATI cards do need a master card (except for low end cards) and the card you are looking at is the X1950 Crossfire Edition card which is designed to be mated with the X1950XTX which is still an expensive card.

brasscorpion said:
If I have to purchase this for 429...then for me ATI is out the door...I would rather buy 2 ASUS 7900GS TOPS and SLI them right out of the gate with no issues.

Please advise. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Lastly, if you have $429 then you should buy a single 8800GTS. Superior performance to all the above solutions and easier to work with.
 
Dan_D said:
Lastly, if you have $429 then you should buy a single 8800GTS. Superior performance to all the above solutions and easier to work with.
Click to expand...

agreed, i dont think anybody will argue this point, not only is it faster, it has better image quality than any other card in existence + DX10 compatability should you ever need it
 
Thanks guys...cleared up a lot of bad information for me. Also a lot of my bad assumptions not knowing any better.

So if I do go with the 1950 Pro...who makes the best ATI cards.

I am not familiar with HIS or any of the other ATI makers. I am used to the BFG, XFX, ASUS, MSI and other Geforce card makers.

I am interested in quality, performance and lastly, company history (has the company produced good cards for a while). I know I can go right to ATI which is now ATI/AMD (still can't get over the merger it is wierd). But what about HIS, looks and sounds as though they make a good card??? I also know Sapphire is a really old company...back when S3, Voodoo and MATROX used to be big...but are they a budget outfit now???

Lastly when looking at 1950 PRO cards (or any ATI) what should a person look for. For example I can tell a 7900 GS Top is factory over clocked by looking at Clock and Memory speeds vs standard cards. Looks like the only difference with ATI based cards are AGP vs PCI and 256 vs 512 memory.

Brass
 
The 7900gs is vastly cheaper though! it can be had now for around $200, the x1950 is a card in a different league alltogether. The Gs will run any game and with good quality at higher framerates. Go with the 7900 gs or gt its cheaper, and you could spend the rest on things like better sound cards, speakers and a new monitor (presuming you've not recently upgraded these, but theres still loads more you can upgrade)

+ if you want a small and quite pc the gs is your card
 
nobody_here said:
agreed, i dont think anybody will argue this point, not only is it faster, it has better image quality than any other card in existence + DX10 compatability should you ever need it
Click to expand...

Geforce 8800 GTS ...costs more, but worth every cent.
 
I just went through this same problem. i bought a HIS X1950Pro and everytime it got to 60C (after 3 or 4 min gaming) it would lock up the comp. I had to set the fan to run 100% in ATI tools to game at all. It was better but still locked up time to time.

I bought a 7900GS (open box at Newegg) for $140. No more problems but the games did look better on the X1950($200)

Since I game at 1280 X 1024 the 7900 works fine. the 8800 is cool but unless you have a DX10 game(not for a while) or a 24 or 30" monitor it seems kind of high $$ to me.
 
I am a Nvidia user, I like it over the ATI offering, at the price point that you are at I recommend the ATI 1950 over the nvidia card, it runs smoother, has more potential, has better graphics, as long as you can deal with the ATI catalyst, I have some issues using their software, the ATI catalyst software. Usually ATI cards are less dependent on cpu and memory than the nvidia counterparts, with the new nvidia like they caught up AA and AF wise. I myself don't have to worry, I got a free upgrade from work, had to use it before the end of the year, opted for the Evga 8800gtx, graphically they caught up AA and AF to ATI. At your price point the X1950 pro is a little hotrod. If you have the economic means like the guy above recommended you can opt for the 8800gts, you can find some on sale online for around $30-50 off sometimes even a free game, If you want DX10 Nvidia 8800 series is the way to go, I hear they are releasing their lower end counterparts sometime around March/April, I would wait till ATI release their new cards and prices will drop quite a bit.
 
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