SMB server recommendations

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hawk82

[H]ard|Gawd
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If you had to chose between Dell and another OEM manufacturer for a server to be used in a 1-20 user/employee/computer office network, which OEM would you go for? For a long time I have been recommending/selling Dell servers to my SMB clients (mainly the Poweredge T series) and am pretty comfortable working with these servers. However, I'm also a Lenovo business partner and they seem to have some aggressive pricing. Have any of you used Lenovo servers lately? Pros/cons? Warranty support good? I noticed HP is now selling Microsoft software licenses as a kit when you purchase a server, appearing to be discounted, even if you were to buy the licenses separately through a volume agreement.

Also, being that most of my clients in the 1-20 user/employee/computer office environment are looking at their bottom line, how would you configure a new server (not skimping on specs but not spending $$$ on features that wouldn't be fully used) to run Microsoft SBS 2008 (some using Exchange, others not yet but may in future)? RAID1/5/10? 8GB RAM enough? Intel Xeon E5600 series processor? SATA or SAS drives?

Here is what I would normally build out a server from Dell:
single Intel Xeon E5620 processor
8GB RAM
PERC RAID card configured in RAID1
500GB SATA drives x 2
SBS2008 (I don't have much experience with SBS2011 yet, figured it would be best to let others work out any potential issues first)

Good or bad?
 
I have sold a lot of HP's, I personally think their service levels are better than dell, they don't give me the run around on basic crap.

Config is ok, but if your running SBS you should really get some 10K SAS drives, 15K is the budget allows for it. SBS services are hogs
 
Okay, if using 10K SAS drives, would you still configure them in a RAID1 or would you go 5 or 10? None of my clients use a database, so they aren't using the Premium version of SBS. Most just use the server for data storage and retrieval and email.
 
I prefer HP servers myself. ML350 or ML370 are fantastic tower servers for SMBs. Service is better than Dell I've found and I generally find the server setup to be much easier, faster, etc.

Personally, I will not sell an SBS2008 or SBS2011 server with less than 12GB of RAM and 10k SAS drives. If the client cheaps out and won't spend the money I just won't sell it to them. Let them go somewhere else, I won't have my name associated with a server that runs like crap. Regardless if the client "runs a database" the server still runs SQL, SharePoint and Exchange which are all resource hogs.

If your clients don't use Exchange then look at SBS2011 Essentials for the server OS. That one you can run on SATA drives but I wouldn't do it with less than 4 in RAID5 or RAID10.
 
Thanks for the recommendations. I understand that the SBS stnd still has SQL running for those services. Just not the full blown SQL server to be used by the client for their business line applications, unless you upgrade to Premium.

I've been reading up on SBS2011 Essentials. I'd go for that if I knew 100% that the client didn't want to do in-house Exchange at any point in the future. Seems like it would be a waste of money if the client decided a year later that they wanted to bring Exchange in-house and you can't add that to Essentials without purchasing or virtualize a 2nd server, if I am not mistaken.
 
I for one, hate selling SBS for companies that "Might" bring Exchange in house at some point. I did it once over a year ago and they are still on hosted exchange. Waste of money in my opinion lol
 
Captain Colonoscopy said:
I prefer HP servers myself. ML350 or ML370 are fantastic tower servers for SMBs. Service is better than Dell I've found and I generally find the server setup to be much easier, faster, etc.
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90% of the server we do our installs on are HP. All the servers in our office are HP. I've never had to call Dell for support but HP support has always been top notch. Understanding Bill, or Fred's obvious Indian accent can sometimes be toublesome which is why I tend to communicate mostly through email rather than phone, but they are always quick

Last time I had to contact support we swapped out nearly every part. After two days they sent a tech onsite with a bag full of spare parts.

+1 for HP support!
 
Dell. I hate HP support and have had more HP gear fail. Dell is also cheaper.

sbs 2011 is out as well.

If client can afford and you are planning exchange go with raid 1/raid 5
 
For some reason HP rejected my partner application that I sent in last year. I guess I need to do $100k+ in sales per year in order to be one of their authorized partners. :/ granted I can still purchase the HP equipment from one of the four distributors I have accounts with.
 
We're 50/50 between Dell and HP for servers. For more "budget" clients...we tend to use Dell. For medium and upper end/enterprise clients....we like HP's Proliants better.

For the client of your size, I'd go with a Dell T610 series or an HP ML350 series.

Definitely want SAS drives, stay the heck away from SATA drives..they belong desktop computers, not servers....unless it's some really really light duty server.

SBS hits the drives hard....break up the RAID ...do a pair RAID 1 for the OS. And do another pair, or three or more...for either a RAID 1 data volume or a RAID 5 volume..and put the Exchange infostore there, shares, add a pagefile to it also.

Go with 12 gigs of RAM or higher.

As for IBM servers...I don't have a lot of experience with them..but the handful that I have over the years...gotta say they've been good solid rigs. Service on the Thinkpad laptops was always good, so I'd assume on their servers it should be at least that.
 
I stick with Dell for just about everything. HP is just a PITA to work with.

I'm not sure you need to go as high as the t610 for only 1-20 users, unless they can see growing significantly during the hardware's life cycle. Even then, they would have to grow a lot. I have a few clients in the 5-10 user range on T310s (and a 3 user office on a T110).

Like others have said, don't skimp on disk speed. For bigger users, I do the same as YeOlde and put the OS on a RAID1 pair and the data on a RAID5 array. On the smaller budget builds for limited users, I have gotten by with everything on a single RAID5 array.

RAM - of course more is better. I have installed SBS2008 on 8GB for smaller users. I actually have it running on 4gb in my own office - really slow reboots, but works just fine for what we need once it's loaded.

Don't forget the needs of any LOB software. Many times it will have to go on a separate server anyway, but not always. It can certainly make a big difference in what hardware will suffice.

You just need to find the sweet spot for each customer between under-building and over-building. It's better to build too big than not big enough, but wasting the customers money on power that they don't need and won't use can come back to bite you, too.
 
I work in a Lenovo certified shop. But lately, we've been selling out a mix of HP and Lenovo servers. I spent a good period of time with Lenovo / IBM tech support on the phone, and I have nothing bad to say except they misdiagnosed the issue (their report said I had different HD's than I did in the server). Once we sorted that out though, no issues. A machine that was once hated by the customer, is now happy and churning away, with much better performance

(its amazing what a firmware upgrade will get you sometimes).

Regardless, I would have to say they are both fine platforms, my in home is a Dell T110. Why? Because I couldn't touch the $ for $ on it. Simple as that. It has issues with dual Intel NIC's which is dumb as shit, and so far there's no fix (and probably won't be, dell would rather sell you a dual port @ 250)
 
I have one client who I helped him spec out a Dell server a few years ago running SBS2008 with only 4GB of RAM. I won't make that mistake again. Doing any type of administration task on the server takes *forever*. It also boots up and shuts down very slow. I plan to upgrade it to 8GB of RAM as soon as I can find compatible memory.

So given the recommendations listed so far, here is a new build out:

Single Xeon X5620 processor
8GB of RAM (prefer 12GB or possibly 16GB of RAM)
hardware RAID 1 for OS
hardware RAID 5 for data/Exchange Store/Sharepoint Store/etc
(OR one hardware RAID 5 for everything if the client can't afford two arrays)
SBS2008

I was discussing with a colleague about this type of issue and what he prefers to do. He says he builds out a server with 16GB of RAM, runs Hyper-V and then throws SBS2008/2010 or Server 2008 into a VM, even if the clients' needs are only one server. Then later on down the road, if say a Terminal Server is needed, you build out another VM and you're all set. No additional hardware required (within reason of course since you are putting all of your eggs in one basket).

Thoughts on virtualizing an SBS box?
 
joblo37pam said:
I'm not sure you need to go as high as the t610 for only 1-20 users, unless they can see growing significantly during the hardware's life cycle. Even then, they would have to grow a lot. I have a few clients in the 5-10 user range on T310s (and a 3 user office on a T110)..
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I only say that because I've noticed a difference in the performance of the RAID controllers...it seems you have to step up above the 300 series to get decent controllers, and the lower models are too limited with what you can slap in there. I'm building a T310 right now for a client...but it's a 3 user network...got the 10k SAS drives, H200 controller doing RAID 1/RAID 1, just server 08r2.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
I only say that because I've noticed a difference in the performance of the RAID controllers...it seems you have to step up above the 300 series to get decent controllers, and the lower models are too limited with what you can slap in there. I'm building a T310 right now for a client...but it's a 3 user network...got the 10k SAS drives, H200 controller doing RAID 1/RAID 1, just server 08r2.
Click to expand...

I see the same controller options all the way through with the exception of the T110s - Perc6/i, H200, and H700 on the T310, T410, T610, and T710. The T110 only has the software based S100/S300, but the new T110 II has the H200 as an option.

The big differences are that the T310 is a single socket board that can only handle 4 drives, the T410 is a dual socket board that can handle six drives, and the T610 is dual socket/eight drives.

If you're doing a RAID1 + RAID 5, the T310 can't do it because it does't have enough drive bays. That alone rules it out for bigger installs, but it's still a very capable machine for the smaller guys.
 
Bumping this thread for an update. Got the server installed this past Saturday (12hrs including running some network cable drops for a new network printer), Sunday (4hrs), & Monday (5hrs). Most of the labor was spent customizing and training the staff how to use Outlook. Prior to the new server, they used ISP mail accounts & ISP webmail. No central storage (which is required by state "right-to-know" law).

I ended up going with the following config:
Dell Poweredge T410
Single Xeon X5620 processor
12GB of RAM
hardware RAID 5 (perc h700) for OS/data/Exchange Store/Sharepoint Store/etc
three 300GB SAS 15k harddrives
non-redundant psu
SBS2008 Stnd

I added a USB 3.0 PCI-Express card and two Seagate 750GB GoFlex Pro USB 3.0 external harddrives for data backup. The Seagate GoFlex comes with a nice dock, so it's real easy to swap out the drives. I do need to get a longer female SATA-to-4pin Molex adapter to power the card. I simply unplugged the DVDROM drive for the time being. Using the built-in Windows Backup, doing a backup 4 times a day. Instructed the client's staff how to alternate the drives during the week. Still need to figure out what to do for offsite backups.

I've ordered an Eaton Evolution 1550 UPS unit to be hooked up to the server.

One thing I noticed was how loose the plastic fan shroud is inside the case. Doesn't seem to be attached by anything except a plastic bar that swings down from the top of the case. Anyone else notice this?

Yes I realize SBS2010 is out, but I'm not 100% comfortable that all the kinks have been worked out of it yet. Not even sure if the AV software would work under SBS2010.

Little mopping up here and there but mostly complete on the install. I just wanted to share my experience with others for future reference.
 
Not bad. Swatbat got me into having more than a 3 drive raid 5. For small offices I'm doing raid 5 aaa or Sata. Larger doing raid 1/5

I'm doing install soon with a t610 raid 1/5 with sas 16gb dual quad xeon

Get into sbs11 way to go.

Have one of the user take a drive home for cheap.

I am using Axcient now for our clients that we put on service contract
 
Sorry fan cover I've noticed but it only a cover, I find Dell servers to be well built

The USB 3 is a good idea

I usually use a-data portable drives
 
I'm in discussions with Axcient right now. I'm also considering of rolling my own image-based backup system with an onsite appliance running Shadowprotect. I haven't decided which method would be the way I want to go.

One thing I have to do is get the Dell Openmanage software installed on the server for monitoring of the hardware, for things like fan failures, stuff like that. Not a perfect solution, but better than no alerts. Eventually I hope to setup/signup for an RMM solution.
 
We looked at rolling own but the cost isn't cheaper.

What is nice about Axcient is you get X Amount of space locally and off-site. So 250GB is both onsite and off. Or you can do Half Cloud.

If you have any questions let me know, I have a NFR at the office, and going to have 3 for order
 
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