small form full atx from scratch questions

[ekuest]

im planning on building a case from scratch. i want to house everything in it, yet keep it compact as possible. i know this will be a HUGE pita to put together because of how close i want everything, but i am determined to get it done. i also want it to be upgradable in such a way that it doesnt limit me in the future. i want to fit a full atx mobo, any size (one slot) vga card, a full size psu, etc. and the kicker: i also want to build a killer WC setup into it that utilizes my huge heater core and 4 push/pull fans. i am wondering the smallest size i can make my case (tower). i dont need an optical drive, and i only need 1 hdd (want 2) to fit. ive layed everything out and right now im at 13"x13"x6". naturally i am going to add an inch or so to each side because of wiring, tubing, and mounting brackets.

questions:
1) are vga cards likely to get any longer than 12" or taller than 5" or thicker than 2"?
2) if i have fans that are open to holes around the edge like on the front of this p180 instead of directly open like this 1200, should i use those holes for sucking in air or for exhaust?
3) if i have 2 HDDs on top of each other with a fan blowing directly on them, how much space should i leave in between them for enough air to cool them properly?
4) is there any reason why i dont want to block my extra pci slots? right now i have a vga and sound card, and have never used anything else. i think in the future ill just use onboard mobo sound because the difference to me is not especially noticeable and i want that space.
5) has anyone made a pull out mobo tray? if i cant do that then i will at least make the back panel easily removable.
6) what are some possibilities for making the side of the case easily and toollessly removable? i know how my case is with little plastic sliders, but i cant make those myself. can anyone link me to a nice set of fasteners for the job?
7) is this an unrealistic project? i dont see many people making cases from scratch. i know its gonna be a big job but once im done with a couple of things im working on now, i can work on it a lot.

if you need to know any more about my plans to give me a good answer just ask. i just didnt want to write out a 5 page essay until i actually start a worklog thread for the project (probably in about 2 weeks).

 

[Arcygenical]

1) Probably not. The dual cards might, but it's up to you to decide if you'd ever use one.
2) Definitely an air intake. Exhausts would be sorely wasted.
3) You can leave <0.25". My drives are all 0.2" apart.
4) Nope, not really. Except maybe ease of install. If something is in the way of the slots, it'd be hard to get the board in or out with said item attached to the case.
5) Yes, sliding casters from Home Depot would work.
6) Thumbscrews? Not too sure there....
7) Totally depends on your skill level, workshop density (tools!) and pocket book

Definitely make a sketchup document for us

 

[ekuest]

cool thanks for the input. what do you suggest for casters? i want something either low profile, or else i might even just slide metal on metal. i dont want to use thumbscrews on the outside cuz i want a very sleek, extremely minimalist box. i am about a 7 on the skill level, but i am up for learning more and have a couple shop teachers i can pester when i get stuck. and at my universitys shop i have most tools i need. might buy them some clekos though and possibly a whitney punch since ive stolen so much from there.

how do i make a sketchup document? i have been using solidworks to lay this out, but it seems there are nice templates for sketchup that people have made? right now i just use a rectangular prism to represent each part, which doesnt look as nice as sketchup drawings.

 

[phillyk]

If you search around, you may see some from scratch boxes.
I'm working on my 2nd completly from scrath & my 3rd or 4th major mod.
I wish I had pic's of some of my early work. I don't have pic's up of my current stuff *ruminates a second*

Its alot of work, but alot of fun & the results can be good, or frustrating, if you cut corners.

I whipped up a sketch up of the size your thinking & a box the size of the project I am currently working on : Click here to DL the file.
The box size I have there is a TV HTPC size chassis. I based it to fit in my home theatre.
It looks like ish in Sketchup because I didn't bother trying to match the cladding to the material's i've built with.

My recomendations to you are to Keep at it.
1)Make a plan!
Make plan's in some detail of the structure 1st.
2)Get in your mind the layout of the parts. Then use card board & make some mock-ups. Even rough ones can help you see if things are working.
-I say this because I bought the PC components 1st & tested them in another case 1st for PC/HTPC function, so if I had problems I might not have to take the case apart.
But because the wife started Tivo'ing stuff, I can't use the parts for test fittings; the mockup parts measured from real parts helped.
In fact, I forgot to make a mockup of the DvDrom drive, used a spare & now I'm Kicking myself, because the spare was smaller & now I have to move an interior strut.
-Not fun when you've already proceeded to painting the chasis.

3) Don't be afraid to experiment with materials.
I got 98% of all my structural metal by canabalizing old PC cases gathered from Friends, co workers & the roadside over the years.
In some cases that's given me metal of higher gauge & allowed me to go a bit simpler.
I must digress, I do use wood for some parts, usually just the exterior.

4) Don't be afraid to use components as structural pieces if you do want to go super
small.
-Before shuttle came out with those great small cases, I bought their first Mobo, but couldn't find a case. So for the Mobo :
I cut down some scrap metal, drilled & tapped it with threads for standoffs. To the other side (from the mobo) I bolted on the bare essentials of a 5 1/4 Bay. Along side that I drilled holes in a small form factor PSU & bolted it to the bay.(and the tray above) Inside the bay I had a HDD on top, a DVD reader & a cd-burner. I used the Metric M5 threaded holes on the bottom of the CDrive to attach that whole tightly packed ball o/mess to a plywood case/box that covered it all except cooling holes & cables.
Painted the wood (without the components) Worked out good.

I will try to find pictures to share later.

 

[ekuest]

that would be awesome. id love to see how youve made yours. i know i will be cannibalizing some parts from old cases. i need a back plate, maybe a mobo tray, and the front ports and switches. but i plan on making all the side panels nice new smooth aluminum sheets. and if all goes well i will be anodizing them myself. as far as sketchup goes, i see these drawings in prometheuscu and mineral oil to name a couple that are very detailed and have the hoses and even an actual picture of the vga or mobo or whatever with the parts sticking up modeled onto it. know what i mean? id like to do that if possible. and i dont plan on making everything fit exactly together. like i said, i want to keep this completely upgradable in the future, so preferably no cutting parts and drilling holes in the because then i cant seel them when i upgrade.plus i think 13x13x6 is pretty damn small as it is. i am limited from going any smaller by the size of an atx mobo, my rad+fans, and the size of a psu. link me to some pics if you find them!