small business file server

[jdetmold]

So this is my first post on the forums I found the forum searching for ideas for a small business file server and have read quite a bit on the forums but I have come to the point that I would like some advice.

I have been asked to setup a file server/nas by a friend for his small business. it will be used to hold many many relatively small filles (currently on floppy disk (yes floppy) and usb flash drive) of course my first question was floppy are u sure? and they were! so I had to find a few usb floppy drives. but i digress.

they will have a total of maybe 1tb (not all from floppy some usb flash disks)
a max of 15 users at any time
all windows clients

at the same time I will also setup a gb network

I am not apposed to a nas device or building my own system (I prefere building)
I have experience with linux, although not opposed to a windows server I am much more comfortable in linux. I also dont mind learning a new system so long as it is well documented.

the most important things are of course reliability (uptime) and security.
I will build my backup plan based somewhat on the nas system (the owner likes the idea of cloud backup but im not convinced thats the best idea yet) as for security i would like users to authenticate in some way (windows logon credentials would be ideal but not required) also several users should be restricted from some directories.

as for budget that is somewhat open as of now... cash is of course always a consideration but lets face it they still use floppies so they do expect this to cost a bit. the plan as of now is for me to come up with 2 or 3 options and they will decide based on my list of pros/cons and price.

I have read about ZFS and like the idea. I especially like the idea of hot-spares. I will be maintaining the system/network but as I am also a fulltime student it would be nice if much of the maintenance could be remote. (i am also setting up a pfsense box and vpn access)

as for hardware they are a dell business and love their dell gear I on the other had hate the fact that dell Canada charges twice the price as dell US so hardware is open but if anyone would like to suggest a dell or else that would be great.

I appreciate any ideas or suggestions and am glad I found the forum I think it will be a great resource in the future.

-Jeff

 

[marley1]

if they do not plan to expand much past 15 users, server 2008 foundation server would be good. Do a dell t310 or even t110 if u need rack mount go with r210. Get the 3 year warranty and use the built in backup in server 08 to 2 usb laptop drives. Setup domain if you csn for folder redirection

 

[marley1]

Forgot raid 1 or raid 6, get it with cheap drives then newegg larger and fresh instal

 

[MrGuvernment]

if you dont get all the drives from dell, dont forget you have to then order separably from them the drive trays, otherwise the system just comes with fillers, if you get a rack mount system.

 

[hellosky]

I think they install blanks for tower systems too.

Drive sleds for the 11G servers (DP/N F238F) is pretty cheap on eBay so it shouldn't be too bad.

 

[jdetmold]

thanks for the help guys!
a windows server is for sure an option!
as i say i do feel more comfortable with a linux environment any one have any suggestions along those lines? i did try playing with zfs through freenas today but it seems soooo slow(not sure if this is because it's in a vm or not) i will try OpenSolaris but i dont know that i expect better results.

as i say they want 2 or 3 options with pros/cons and price

so i have dell windows server for one option


Thanks again!

-Jeff

 

[DieTa]

Hi Jeff,

on which flavor of Linux are you at home? If Debian based and you're not afraid of a system running on Debian Unstable, even worse - Ubuntu Unstable, you should consider Nexenta Core. It's not as bad as it sounds. It contains the OpenSolaris Kernel with ZFS v28 (which is pretty good compared to FreeNAS (superold, because it's based on FreeNAS 7.2) or FreeBSD 8.2 (not even released yet) with ZFS v15.

If you don't want to invest hundreds of Euros into a hardware RAID controller, ZFS is your way to go - or maybe software RAID in Debian (or LVM and then RAID).

I'm currently also stuck with the same problem for my own small business. I would love to use ZFS; but I've not much clue of Solaris - Nexenta is, as mentioned above, unstable. I've also blogged about this - maybe it's interesting for you: http://www.klein2.de/2011/01/02/fileserver-backups/

Ciao
Dennis

 

[lightp2]

Just an observation, in the current time, in the event you are supporting completely new production deployment, the very 1st critical priority is to address the back-up and recovery. This idea covers the hardware, software, services and maintenance operation.

It does not need to be comprehensive, but help if you assess the needs and level of commitment right from the start. For small business deployment size such as listed in your post, there are certainly some worthwhile permutations worth considering.

For example of this idea, though I do not have experience, I read on the data storage forum many also use Windows Home Server to backup their workstations because it has necessary software to make that operation easy for Windows clients. Experience folks can probably supply more info.

 

[jdetmold]

on which flavor of Linux are you at home?

I have experience with Debian/Ubuntu, CentOS, and SUSE
I do have several Windows Server 2003 systems running but when posible I prefere to use linux not that I particularly dislike windows, but when the shtf i do find things easier to fix in linux (Also I hate CAL's!).

I will defiantly check out your blog!

 

[jdetmold]

if they do not plan to expand much past 15 users, server 2008 foundation server would be good. Do a dell t310 or even t110 if u need rack mount go with r210. Get the 3 year warranty and use the built in backup in server 08 to 2 usb laptop drives. Setup domain if you csn for folder redirection

I just read about windows server backup and that does sound cool! havent used 2008 before only 2003.

 

[john4200]

If you want three options:

1) Windows Server 2008, with software or hardware RAID

2) Linux, either Ubuntu Server 10.04 LTS or Red Hat Enterprise Linux, with mdadm software RAID and Samba

3) Solaris - there is a decent thread in this forum that can help you get up to speed there

In any case, if you only have about 1TB, and small files, I'd go with something simple like a 3 disk RAID 1 mirror. That way if you have multiple users accessing the small files simultaneously, you will multiply the IOPS of a single disk by about 3 times, and you can tolerate any 2 disks failing without losing data.

You mentioned hot spares, but if doing RAID 1, you might as well just put the "spares" into the RAID. You could even do 4 disk RAID 1 if you are concerned about taking a long time to replace a failed disk.

For backup, 1TB is small enough that you could do remote backup, for example, to Amazon S3. There are several programs you could use to do something like that. There is also CrashPlan.

 

[vraa]

4) Freebsd = ZFS GURU!!!!

 

[cafcwest]

if they do not plan to expand much past 15 users, server 2008 foundation server would be good. Do a dell t310 or even t110 if u need rack mount go with r210. Get the 3 year warranty and use the built in backup in server 08 to 2 usb laptop drives. Setup domain if you csn for folder redirection

Exactly this. Except you can't order Foundation on the T310 - only the T110, and the rack mount T210.

The "business first server bundle" or something along those lines includes 2 160GB hard drives, 4GB RAM, and a SAS6iR adapter for ~$975, depending on your sales rep. Mirror the two included drives for the OS. Install two 1-2TB drives and mirror those for data. End users love hearing about redundancy. Two external USB drives setup to backup twice a day via the Windows Backup utility. Rotate a drive off-site on a weekly basis. Cake.

 

[marley1]

to respond to the foundation server...purchase server without os, buy foundation from provantage our other source, make sure it is english, download oem cd from torrent or from newsgroup, install with your serial

 

[koolaidkitten]

I dont oppose a linux setup, but usually for friends I set them up with Windows based options because I can't always be there for them, and it will be hella easier for them to find help when something goes wrong if it is a windows based solution. But if you are going to be supporting them for future issues I guess implementing linux isn't a bad idea.

 

[jdetmold]

The "business first server bundle" or something along those lines includes 2 160GB hard drives, 4GB RAM, and a SAS6iR adapter for ~$975, depending on your sales rep. Mirror the two included drives for the OS. Install two 1-2TB drives and mirror those for data. End users love hearing about redundancy. Two external USB drives setup to backup twice a day via the Windows Backup utility. Rotate a drive off-site on a weekly basis. Cake.

Thanks for the info but i cant seem to find the "business first server bundle" that you mention, it could be that dell does not offer this bundle in canada I'm not sure. do u remember what server was included in the bundle?

you mention "depending on your sales rep" as I say, I'm in Canada so on dell.ca their prices are almost always twice that of the US site. so it's nice to know they can move on prices a little (although im sure they wont give it to me for the US price)

I dont oppose a linux setup, but usually for friends I set them up with Windows based options because I can't always be there for them, and it will be hella easier for them to find help when something goes wrong if it is a windows based solution. But if you are going to be supporting them for future issues I guess implementing linux isn't a bad idea.

I can completely understand and agree with that! I have only installed linux boxes when I would be available to service them as most people in the industry only really use windows it seems. But in this case I will be in the business at least 1 or 2 days a week until I'm done school then will be a fulltime employee (not employed for IT but I will do the IT as well)

 

[jdetmold]

if they do not plan to expand much past 15 users, server 2008 foundation server would be good.

ok spoke with the owner today and we need todo a windows server as some of the software that it needs to run has no linux build.
however he would like to not limit himself to a max of 15 users although he has decided 15 CALs should do for now.

so the big question!

As a DC & File Server, should I be looking at SBS 2008 with 15 CALs, or Server 2008 R2 with 20 CALs? I have not used sbs or standard 2008 just 2003

if so should I be buying that from dell? or is their markup crazy? (again i'm in canada mad)
if people would not recommend buying the os and CALs from dell where can you recommend? preferably a place that will deal with canadians...

Dell's prices:
Windows Server 2008 R2, Standard Edition,x64, Includes 5 CALS add $870.00
15-pack of Windows® Server 2008 User CALs (Standard or Enterprise) add $650.00

Microsoft® Small Business Server 2008SP2, Standard Edition with Media add $1,190.00
15-Pack of Windows® Small Business Server 2008 USER CALs (Standard) add $1,260.00

I have to say I'm not sure what the difference really is... i searched and as far as i can tell both can be a Domain Controller but server 2008 can be installed in a workgroup whereas SBS must be in a Domain? a bunch of sites recommend SBS because of the prettier gui config windows (god i hate pretty GUI Windows lol) but I could use some input.
for the price difference I would think Server 2008 R2...

 

[DieTa]

SBS contains Exchange. If you want Exchange and you bought the regular Win Server 2008 R2, you need to buy it additionally which will be more expensive.

 

[jdetmold]

also a little confused here.... much cheaper... also comes with 2008R2 (i assume standard) Licence?..... do the CALs that come with it work with R2? even if they dont couldn't i just buy the 15 pack for 650? why would they do that?

Windows Server®2008SP2,Std x64,ACAD,w/Hyper-V™,5CALs,w/2008R2 Lic [add $270.00 or $9.00/month1]


Windows Server®2008SP2,Ent x64,ACAD,w/Hyper-V™,25CAL,w/2008R2 Lic [add $1,090.00 or $35.00/month1]

 

[cafcwest]

Thanks for the info but i cant seem to find the "business first server bundle" that you mention, it could be that dell does not offer this bundle in canada I'm not sure. do u remember what server was included in the bundle?

you mention "depending on your sales rep" as I say, I'm in Canada so on dell.ca their prices are almost always twice that of the US site. so it's nice to know they can move on prices a little (although im sure they wont give it to me for the US price)

Here is the machine I was referring to (T110, $916USD currently):

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/first-server-solution.aspx


I'm a Dell Partner, so I have a sales rep that I call and ask her if she can beat my partner price - 50% of the time she can get me an even better price, and she makes some commission.

If I can, I'll take a swing at your other stuff later....busy week!