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Sli or not?

K

kenham40

Gawd
Joined
Apr 3, 2001
Messages
943
Building a new socket 939 system (it's the winchester) for my buddy and I have to decide to go SLI or not and if so, which video cards to put in SLI. I would appreciate all input on this please. Thanks fellas.


Also if I am picking the wrong parts for the system feel free to pick better ones for me. All prices and parts have been picked form the 'egg so far.

ATI: what single PCI-e card can I get that's the best?

Nvidia: what single PCI-e card can I get that's the best?

SLI: what two nvidia cards can I get for under 700 bucks?

(he has a 2000 limit on the system and with the other components we are at around 1200 currently). I still have to pick out a power supply for the system (one that can handle all listed and possibly SLI if that's the route we take).

Here is what I picked out so far:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 2.2 GHz, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit Socket 939 Processor - Retail
Model# ADA3500BIBOX
Item # N82E16819103498 $280.00

OCZ Performance Series Dual Channel Kit 240-Pin 1GB(512MB x 2) DDR2 PC-5400, Model OCZ26671024PFDC-K -RETAIL
Model# OCZ26671024PFDC-K $262.50
Item # N82E16820227010

Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD740GD, OEM Drive Only
Model# WD740GD
Item # N82E16822144160 $360.00(180.00 x 2)

MSI "K8N Neo4 Platinum SLI" NVIDIA nForce4 SLI Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939 CPU -RETAIL $189.00
Model# K8N Neo4 Platinum/SL
Item # N82E16813130487

NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive, Beige, Model ND-3520A, OEM
Model# ND-3520A BG $59.99
Item # N82E16827152039

Western Digital 200GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD2000JD, OEM Drive Only
Model# WD2000JD $117.19
Item # N82E16822144153

$1268.68 total thus far
 
I would get sli if I had the money to do it, but its to expensive right now, and not so many games support it. Still I would build a sli setup if i could.

I dont think Nforce4 support DDR2, but better crosscheck.

Im a little baised, but with $700 for videocard only, I would get a 6800GT PCI-e, and save a little more ($100) and build the sli rig, the 6800GT will be able to hold it for any games right now, and future upgrade will give you the advantage in newer games.

Im not a big fan of MSI for mobos, although the make really fine stuff, but if you can check the DFI Nforce 4, I have read a lot of good stuff about them.

Good luck,
 
hey man look at my sig, i just built it today, and its one hell of a gaming system im VERY impressed with it, worth every penny i paid for it also :D
 
If you want the SLI setup, you could easily drop the second raptor without losing much/any performance.

Oh, and the post above is correct...you want DDR, not DDR2.
 
The only SLI solution you'll find even close to that price is a 2x6800GT set-up. But you're looking at well over $850 worth of cards. If that's not in your price range, and you don't wanna have to dink with special drivers and game profiles and yadda yadda, then a single card solution will do ya just fine. Best price/performance for a single card is the x850xt-pe.
 
I am personally a fan of SLI and would like to go down that route when I get the cash. However, I'm fairly well up on the issues/problems around SLI and I enjoy tweaking. If your friend just wants you to build him a top-notch gaming PC that he can sit down and play, don't get SLI. It is definitely NOT a 'hands off' solution at the moment. I suspect from the fact that it's you building the computer not him, that he's not massively computer savvy (not meant in a bad way). If this is so, look for something along the lines of a 3500+/X850 XT PE as the basis of your system.

For the PSU, set aside a fair chunk and get a PC Power and Cooling 510 model (check out the power supply forum - these have a sky-high reputation). They also do an SLI-specific model if you do go this route.

Get a really nice case from Lian Li to make it all look good. Don't buy OEM parts unless you know exactly what you're doing - the warranty cover might be different and obviously you don't get cables/discs or whatever else you need to plug it all in.

I'm not an expert on the memory side of things, but I believe that PC5400 RAM is a waste in an AMD system - try getting some PC3200 with 2-2-5 timings, which will be fast without needing to be tweaked. Maybe research this further.
 
Depending on what resolution you play at, you can get 2 6800 (non-gt/ultra) 256 meg cards for $600.00. I would consider thos if you play below 1280 x 1024. I suspect driver updates will dramatically improve SLI in the future.
 
I wouldn't buy SLI if I were you. It's too expensive, not enough games support it, and there's not enough bang for your buck.
 
I'm a gamer, and also do a little tinkering. But for the most part, I do big upgrades every three years or so.
I'd was set out on building an X800XT-PE system, but finally built a 6800GT SLI system for these reasons

1) didn't want to get price gouged and pay $650+ for a single video card (at that time)
2) found BFG 6800GT OC bundle at chumbo for very reasonable price
3) had the budget
4) won't have to do any upgrade for at least four years

Yes, SLI is expensive. But the system will be good gaming system for a few years. I build a PC every three years, and I had no problems getting my SLI up (maybe I was just lucky).

So my tips for you:

1) if you can wait, look for the BFG "super bundle" from chumbo. They been severly backorded lately. But the price of $850 is very reasonable. Its like getting BFG 6800GT OC at MSRP $400 and a 550W PSU for $50
2) don't even think about 6600 SLI. Not worth it. Better off with single card 6800GT or X800XL or better
3) forget the second raptor. $180 is not worth the slightly improved load time
3) forget 2-2-2-5 memory. I got corsair 3200XL and could not run stable at 2-2-2-5 1T. Had to change setting to 2-3-2-5 1T and the system is rock solid. The price premium is not worth it when I have to make it run a bit "slower"
 
GlimmerMan said:
I'm a gamer, and also do a little tinkering. But for the most part, I do big upgrades every three years or so.
I'd was set out on building an X800XT-PE system, but finally built a 6800GT SLI system for these reasons

1) didn't want to get price gouged and pay $650+ for a single video card (at that time)
2) found BFG 6800GT OC bundle at chumbo for very reasonable price
3) had the budget
4) won't have to do any upgrade for at least four years
Click to expand...

I did the exact same thing. I had about 2k lying around (yay!). Chumbo had 2x BFG GeForce 6800 GT OC PCI-E plus a 550 W PSU for 850 dollars. I had a 2nd system planned out based on the X800 XT PE (found one on newegg for $500). I love my system right now... it's crazy fast and very sexy. ;)

Best single card though has to be X850 XT PE (if you can find one...)
Best nVidia single card is the 6800 Ultra, but the radeon beats it.
If you want two nVidia cards under 700 dollars... then it'll have to be two 6600 GT's. They will run around 400-500 dollars for two. Gigabyte is selling a single card, duo core SLI with a motherboard for a decent price. Hardocp has a review about it right on this site. Keep in mind though, for 500 dollars, you can get a better single card. The two 6600 GT's just don't have enough RAM to keep up with the other cards at that price. Originally, the two 6600 GT's were designed to outperform a single 6800 GT (as the pricing is similiar). Although the SLI 6600 GT's score better on 3dmark, their in game performance takes a hit on higher settings because of the RAM.
 
I'm loving my dual 6600GT's. The latest driver gave me huge boosts at 1600x1200 too (probably better memory management, as the gains at lower resolutions weren't as dramatic).

I find that the framerates are not only good, but they seem to stay smoother than with single card solutions. True, not all games support SLI, but the list is growing very fast as the drivers mature, and I'd be willing to bet that most future titles will support SLI given NVidia's close relationship with game developers.
 
Mister E said:
The only SLI solution you'll find even close to that price is a 2x6800GT set-up. But you're looking at well over $850 worth of cards. If that's not in your price range, and you don't wanna have to dink with special drivers and game profiles and yadda yadda, then a single card solution will do ya just fine. Best price/performance for a single card is the x850xt-pe.
Click to expand...


Correct except on the card. If you get an sli board , spend 600 or 400 on a 6800 Ultra or a GT repsectively and that way you can add a second card later if you wish to improve performance or sell it and go next Gen x 2 either way you have better scaleablity . That is what i am doing.

I went dual 6600Gt's and got everything up and running and worked out the kinks. I purchased direct from EVGA and now i am using their step up program. (allows you to get all of what you paid for toward a more powerful card within 90 days of purchase) Its a no brainer and the EVGA 6600Gt is 500/1000

I have already sent one 6600GT back and have an Ultra on the way. I will go with that Ultra until April and see what next Gen has to offer. If inext generation part are not too compellling or wont benifit me for another year releative to games then i will get the second Ultra for what by then will be a cheaper price.
 
Thank you to everyone that has responded. You have given me plenty to think about and I am going to do some more research on the ram and drop one of the harddrives. Thanks again! (I will let you know which way I decide to go on the video cards in a few days).
 
ThomasE66 said:
True, not all games support SLI, but the list is growing very fast as the drivers mature, and I'd be willing to bet that most future titles will support SLI given NVidia's close relationship with game developers.
Click to expand...

I'm curious about this statement, since SLI just might be in my near future.

nVidia drivers very rarely get updated officially lately. There are beta drivers released every other day though. Are you updating using beta drivers - and how many additional games have become supported since you got SLI? I thought the game list hadn't been updated in awhile...
 
Elias said:
I'm curious about this statement, since SLI just might be in my near future.

nVidia drivers very rarely get updated officially lately. There are beta drivers released every other day though. Are you updating using beta drivers - and how many additional games have become supported since you got SLI? I thought the game list hadn't been updated in awhile...
Click to expand...

I think the number of games is up to around 50, and a lot of 'unsupported' games seem to work if you force them to use SLI or write your own profile (there are also utilities out there to do so with). There is a site out there with a list posted, but I can't find the URL. I'll look for it.

NVidia *will* have to step up the release of official drivers though. It's a must if they are to stay competetive, IMO.

I'm running the 71.81 betas and have seen dramatic performance increases at higher resolutions. Lower res (1280x1024 and less) were already screaming.
 
The only SLI setup thats under what you said is dual 6600GTs, which aint worth it much.

I wouldn get an X850XT (ati)

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-483&depa=1

They are rather expnsive/ But worth it IMO

Also, an XL qill get you about 80FPS in HL2 with Max Quality, 1600x1200 res, and 4xAA and 8xAF

so an XL is pretty sweet also

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/vga_charts-09.html

HL2, Doom3, Far cry and a few other games benchmarked, with pretty much all newer cards (check that link, it'll help getting a video card)
 
I wouldn't get that expensive of RAM. The extra speed of the RAM is wasted unless you seriously overclock your system. Even then you only need ~$180 RAM to get those high overclocks because you can always set your RAM speed down to a base of 333mhz instead of leaving it at 400mhz, thus giving you a free 20% overclock before RAM speed becomes an issue at all. Solid low-latency PC3200 is generally a better way to go and will free up some bucks for the thing that really counts: Videocards.

Also I would also pass up the Raptors in favor of a Raid 0, or Raid 5 Array with less expensive drives. For instance, you can get 4 Western Digital 160GB Hot-swappable drives for $460 total, or 4 non-hotswappable ones for $380 total. You could also just get 2 or 3 drives of 160GB or 200GB size and save even more money.

Doing those two things would probably save you enough that you could get 2x6800GT's for a seriously nice SLI setup.

You could also switch to a single PCI-Express board and get an X850XT-PE and still have some money left over to put into a soundcard or something.

All this is based on the assumption that gaming is the primary purpose of this system. If it's purpose is something harddrive intensive instead then the Raptors may be better. Regardless, the RAM just doesn't need to cost that much. You just won't see enough of a difference, probably 1 or 2 fps in games, while the added cost may keep you from getting a better CPU, which would add 4 or 5 fps, or a better GPU (or SLI) which could add as much as 20 to 30fps.
 
Hate_Bot said:
The only SLI setup thats under what you said is dual 6600GTs, which aint worth it much.

I wouldn get an X850XT (ati)

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-483&depa=1

They are rather expnsive/ But worth it IMO

Also, an XL qill get you about 80FPS in HL2 with Max Quality, 1600x1200 res, and 4xAA and 8xAF

so an XL is pretty sweet also

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/vga_charts-09.html

HL2, Doom3, Far cry and a few other games benchmarked, with pretty much all newer cards (check that link, it'll help getting a video card)
Click to expand...


Your missing the point. He does not need to go two cards right away. The 6800 Ultra performs nearly as fast as the 850 and suppports more advanced features ( for next gen games) One card is 600 and that saves him 100 off of his budget. He can get a second one later. He could also do what i did and get two 6600gt's from Evga ( two easily did as well as one gT for me and I know this from experience).

I have owned a GT and an Ultra. In fact the dual 6600GTs did as well as my Ultra AGP did albiet with less AA

He could use the step program to go dual GTs later if he wanted two. Why drop 600 on an outdated card for just a couple of FPS? I feel thats too expensive. Right now i am running a single 6600GT while i wait for my first step up Ultra and frankly it games very well at the 1650 x 1080 naitive res of my monitor and supports all the advanced features teh 850 does not.

I have grown tired of the get an 850 comments as it relates to sli being expensive

I submit that is it not more expesive to invest 600 into an outdated overpriced card that is essentialy an overclocked 3 year old technology?
 
Firstly, The X850 is $500. While a PCI-E Ultra is $594

I still dont think it's worth it. Considering 2 GTs would cost something along the lines of $800. I play mostly HL2 and CS:Source, as well as HL2 DM. 2 6800GTs would only get me about an 12 FPS boost, only about 5 if You OC to XT-PE (which wouldnt be difficult). Since 2 6800GTs would cost $300 then an SIngle X850XT, It's not worth it for am At All.

Plus, You have to get an SLI Mobo, whcih is more expensive then an Regulaer PCI-E NF4 mobo.
 
I wouldn't go SLi right now primarily because there are hardly any games supported, and nVidia has not yet proven their dedication in getting additional titles added in a timely manner. Until they do, SLi isn't worth the extra cash.

If your friend thinks he may want to go SLi down the road, and nVidia does manage to make it worthwhile, great. Buy a single 6800U for now, then add another down the road.
 
OmG its like talking to a wall. If you only play CS S you only need one 6600gt ( a 200 dollar card that spanks a 9800 pro that went 400 and change just a few short months ago) for that matter.

An 850 is over kill if i go by your logic. I will try this once more. the Guy has the money, currently the sli boards have come down to a reasonable price and offer the best upgrade path. You go sli mobo and you have more choice. You go sinlge card thats fine (even if its an 850) but have the option of dual is still there except you would have to sell your 850 if you want sli later. You go nviidia because of the sli compatibility and more the advanced feature set. It is a no brainer.
 
Im not saying that getting an SLI mobo is stupid. Im saying that IMO getting 2 Ultras or GTs right now is kind of pointless. If you want the 3Dmark score and bragging rights be my geust. But if your just gaming, sure dual ultras will give you better results, But for that kind of money, I would expect 200FPS or something, not 10-15FPS more.
 
Y ou have a point thats why i said get one card for now. I am getting two Ultras becuase i can afford it and want to go nuts with my new 24 inch lcd that will be mine next month but we al have different needs. I just believe that if he goes sli mobo and a single invidia card he will have more options. I do , however respect your opinion
 
I also thought about getting one 6800GT or 6800U, then getting another one down the road.
My opinion is it is not a good plan. One of the current requirements of SLI is that both cards must be EXACTLY the same - same model and same BIOS.
A year or two from now, I don't think the chances are good that I can get a second card that is exactly the same as my first card. The money I save will not be worth the risk of compatibility problems I may encounter.
Since I had a big enough budget, I got both cards at the same time. No grief, and I will have many years of gaming with the setup.
 
jacuzz1 said:
OmG its like talking to a wall. If you only play CS S you only need one 6600gt ( a 200 dollar card that spanks a 9800 pro that went 400 and change just a few short months ago) for that matter.
Click to expand...

The 9800 Pro hasnt been $400 in well over a year, let alone a few short months. $400 was the MSRP when it was released years ago.
 
GlimmerMan said:
I also thought about getting one 6800GT or 6800U, then getting another one down the road.
My opinion is it is not a good plan. One of the current requirements of SLI is that both cards must be EXACTLY the same - same model and same BIOS.
A year or two from now, I don't think the chances are good that I can get a second card that is exactly the same as my first card. The money I save will not be worth the risk of compatibility problems I may encounter.
Since I had a big enough budget, I got both cards at the same time. No grief, and I will have many years of gaming with the setup.
Click to expand...

Thats easy , you flash your current card with the most current bios, but again its a good point. To each his own I guess. I would still get a single Ultra over an 850 if not for the better dual head implimentation . A biziiilan FPS versus A biazillon and 5 it not relevant to me.
 
6600GT's in SLI is just stoopid. Why the hell would you buy two (2) midrange cards to make a rig that performs like a single slot solution rig with one ultra high end card?

Its two 6800GT's ($850+) or one X850XT-PE ($550) to make a system in this guys price range. And the SLI solution is way more expensive, requires special drivers, special game profiles, and you have to write your own game profiles for the games that aren't supported. And you don't get the 'promised improvements' that I've seen pledged from Nvidia about sli.

Sorry but SLI is still way to expensive for the performance you get and way to 'unsupported' for me to endorse 100%. Not to mention CPU power is still way behind this solution.
 
I purchased an MSI SLI mobo.

While I don't have two GPU cards yet, the ability to do so in the future is present. What I recommend is that you purchase and SLI "capable" mobo and a single graphics card of your choosing (heck even if it's an ATI, you just won't be able to SLI the ATI's at the moment, but that may change).

I have a 6600GT that works very well for my games, true there are 800, 850 and 6800 users out there that "bench" higher than me, but it's all about enjoyment.

Latter, I can add another 6600GT for a minimal cost, especially when the prices drop next fall. And then eventually I can upgrade to the ATI XT980 PE, or GeForce 7800 Ultra when they come out.

It's about having the infrastructure, (the two PCIe X16 slots and SLI bridge) that allows you to do this with future Nvidia products. If ATI and Nvidia are smart, they'll use the existing SLI mobo's and chipsets as a standard and then you can decide which video cards to SLI rather than a complete setup from scratch if you wish to change from one vendor to the other.
 
And the SLI solution is way more expensive, requires special drivers, special game profiles, and you have to write your own game profiles for the games that aren't supported.
Click to expand...

People are making SLI sound more complicated than it really is.
Special drivers are not needed - the official 66.93 driver is all you need.
You only need to write game profiles for unsupported games if you really wanted to. There is a Control Panel option to force SLI for all unsupported games. Just set it and forget it.
I play Doom3, UT2004, BFV, FarCry. All supported.
CoD and NWN, unfortunately not supported, but plays fine on one card.
I don't see support as a big issue. For highly anticipated new games that can benefit from SLI, you can be sure Nvidia will have support before the game is even released. BF2 is already supported, and the game is like 6 months from release.
 
Still, Any worthwile SLI (2 6800GTs/Ultras) system that gives you a 10-15 FPS Boost in most games (except with the possiblity of Doom 3) isnt worth the Obscene amount of cash you would need. Plus if you argue that "But look how it makes doom3 run!!!!111one1!!" who ever herd of spending $800+ just so one game (A game thats not even that great) can run well?

Thats like buying a ferrari so you can get to the grocery store faster...
 
Hate_Bot said:
Still, Any worthwile SLI (2 6800GTs/Ultras) system that gives you a 10-15 FPS Boost in most games (except with the possiblity of Doom 3) isnt worth the Obscene amount of cash you would need. Plus if you argue that "But look how it makes doom3 run!!!!111one1!!" who ever herd of spending $800+ just so one game (A game thats not even that great) can run well?

Thats like buying a ferrari so you can get to the grocery store faster...

P4-2.0 GHZ
256mb sdram
Apollo MX440SE (OCed to 419/379)
Ugly case
(Dont worry, Im getting a better system soon)
Click to expand...

This kind of reminds me of what my wife faces at work................she is a per diem nurse and only works about 24 hours a month- usually 4 hour shifts. She always gets a bunch of shit from the full time nurses because she doesn't work much. BUT.......you know damn well that if the full time people didn't have to work full time they wouldn't. They do it because they have to and I'm sure they would gladly work my wifes schedule if they had a choice. I'm seeing the same thing here with guys running Pentium 4 2.0's and Geforce4's criticizing guys for their SLI systems when you know damn well if they could afford a SLI system they would do it.
 
Well I think SLI support is gona be heavily implemented in the next year, as Nvidia found a way to make users buy to videocards, and for users to give their cash, the performance of this setups have to be good, or else they will return to single card setups. So my bet is that SLI will be here for good, and Nvidia will work hard to mantain it. I will get a SLI setup as soon as I can get more money.

One bad thing that could happen is that if ATI devolps their SLI setup, and both of them dont create inovative products, thinking that now users will have to buy two cards to play the games "the way there were ment to be". I really wish that ATI stayed in single card and Nvidia with SLI so there is no slipping.
 
My personal recommendation is to buy an SLI mobo and 1 6800GT PCI-E, once that can't cut it anymore, buy another! Only reason you would really need 4 is if your running 4 DVI monitors, which I doubt you're doing.
 
GlimmerMan said:
People are making SLI sound more complicated than it really is.
Special drivers are not needed - the official 66.93 driver is all you need.
You only need to write game profiles for unsupported games if you really wanted to. There is a Control Panel option to force SLI for all unsupported games. Just set it and forget it.
I play Doom3, UT2004, BFV, FarCry. All supported.
CoD and NWN, unfortunately not supported, but plays fine on one card.
I don't see support as a big issue. For highly anticipated new games that can benefit from SLI, you can be sure Nvidia will have support before the game is even released. BF2 is already supported, and the game is like 6 months from release.
Click to expand...

Well you're also oversimplifying things. A big issue I've been wondering about is the fact that it isn't as widely supported by games as some make it seem to be. The profiler helps, but from what I've seen it's still a hit or miss. Also unless the game is properly supported by the drivers, even if the profiler allows the game to utilize both cards, the performance gain on average probably won't be anywhere near as much as it is with supported titles.

The inherent value just still hasn't come close to outshadowing some single card systems of lesser value imho. Good if you're an enthusiast with money to burn though, but value minded buyers (which is most of us) should at least be somewhat wary.
 
Being an Enthusiast doesnt mean buying the most expensive crap. It means you know what your buying. SLI in my opinion is overhyped and so far I dont want it. If a Voodo Like SLI came into play you would see me liking it alot more.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Being an Enthusiast doesnt mean buying the most expensive crap. It means you know what your buying. SLI in my opinion is overhyped and so far I dont want it. If a Voodo Like SLI came into play you would see me liking it alot more.
Click to expand...

Voodoo SLI didn't support all games either. Also, sometimes being an early adopter can be fun and informative; rather than just relying on what you read and hearsay you get to see what's what first hand.
 
Whatever you do, do not consider the "SLI is barely supported... one card will run any game" crowd. Might as well say "Computers will never require more than 540k of memory." :rolleyes:

If you think SLI might lose support from nVidia & mobo manufacturers, fine. If you think new games will not be SLI friendly, great. Don't go with SLI. If you think it's overly expensive, just get a single 6800GT for now and pocket the change until you can afford a second. Or else go with a single GPU, either Ultra or X800. Doesn't sound like the X850's are easy to get right now.

Whatever you do, get cheaper RAM. Maybe lose the 200GB and wait for a $50-60 deal on one if you can possibly do that. Maybe lose the second Raptor. And go with a couple of 6800GTs in SLI Goodness.
 
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