Single 480 for 27"? Really?

[LucidDream]

In a post over in the PSU forum where I was confirming mine could handle SLI 480s, a couple people suggested that a single GTX 480OC would deal with Final Fantasy XIV @1080p. Since that thread, I was able to get access to the FFXIV beta, and I noticed while there isn't much lag on my current 22" monitor (@1680x1050), my card runs super hot, around 85°C-93°C, even while just standing around in town. I have read the Fermi post Kyle wrote with temps, but are there going to be long-term repercussions?

Though I haven't seen the card's temp higher than 93°C (outside of town, in combat, etc). I do think there would be additional stress on the card if I were running a higher resolution.


With the above in mind, here are my questions:

Should I not expect the temp to rise when going from 1680x1050 to 1920x1080 (I believe a 17% increase in pixel count)?

This seems like a somewhat crazy question because power draw generally = heat; but is it possible a second card would lower the temp because the two will be less stressed? My card idles at 43°C~50°C while using desktop application, depending on ambient temp.

I will probably run the game many hours a day (I would like to leave it idle when I'm away)-- with the game minimized I still run at about 85°C which can really heat this small room up if I have the door closed, which is also unfortunate.

My card has the normal airflow bracket, would a high-flow bracket help to resolve the problem, at least giving the card some relief (or is it otherwise worth the $10+shipping)?

I am a nut about my computer and I love it to death but my tower (twelve hundred) is right under my desk and it quite literally feels like a hair dryer on the max heat setting. It's so much heat blowing around I can't help but think I should be doing something differently, and the potential upgrade is weighing on me pretty badly considering it may become even worse.

Bonus question: How could someone possibly WC a setup like this without needing special wiring in their house!? I realize WCing would not solve the problem, but I am also worried about the lifespan of my card(s) as well as the heat it's pumping into the room.

If nothing else I will be dramatically reducing my dependency on oil come this winter.

ATI Note: I'm aware Nvidia cards run hot, but I've had bad experiences with ATI stability and drivers, and known many others to also; going ATI is a non-option in my book (which is why I posted in the Nvidia flavor forum). Please don't suggest I get something lesser/ATI. I don't mean to knock ATI but they really left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[KatalDT]

The thing to focus on as you seem to grasp in your post (but not your title) is pixel count, not display size. My 1920x1080 42" LCD is no harder for my video cards to power than a 23" 1920x1080 screen, and easier than powering my 25.5" 1920x1200.

That said - I can't imagine why a GTX 480 would have issues with 1080p.

 

[vjcsmoke]

I'll just answer them in turn as best I can:

Should I not expect the temp to rise when going from 1680x1050 to 1920x1080 (I believe a 17% increase in pixel count)?

The temperature shouldn't rise appreciably but your framerates/eyecandy you can enable will be lower because your video card will be pushing more pixels.

This seems like a somewhat crazy question because power draw generally = heat; but is it possible a second card would lower the temp because the two will be less stressed? My card idles at 43°C~50°C while using desktop application, depending on ambient temp.

As above - two video cards will give you more FPS and ability to run more eyecandy but the heat and noise increase will be appreciable. Trust me, I had to deal with GTX 480 SLI until I broke down and got watercooling. An alternative if you want to stay with aircooling, is to shell out for a Silverstone FT02 case. The vertical card alignment is weird but it seems to appreciably lower temps.

I will probably run the game many hours a day (I would like to leave it idle when I'm away)-- with the game minimized I still run at about 85°C which can really heat this small room up if I have the door closed, which is also unfortunate.

You're going to have to learn to live with leaving the door cracked open when you're gaming. The heat needs to escape somewhere and if the door is closed it will just gather up in your room and make you feel hot and sweaty. Either that or install a window AC unit in your room and crank it up.

My card has the normal airflow bracket, would a high-flow bracket help to resolve the problem, at least giving the card some relief (or is it otherwise worth the $10+shipping)?

If you're staying with aircooling, the high flow bracket helps load temps by about 2c. Idle temps by about 2-5c. It doesn't sound like much but it helps. I also recommend a slot cooler to lower temps by an additional 2-3c across the board on top of that. I was using the antec one and it helped.

I am a nut about my computer and I love it to death but my tower (twelve hundred) is right under my desk and it quite literally feels like a hair dryer on the max heat setting. It's so much heat blowing around I can't help but think I should be doing something differently, and the potential upgrade is weighing on me pretty badly considering it may become even worse.

Power results in heat. 480s are power hungry beasts.

Bonus question: How could someone possibly WC a setup like this without needing special wiring in their house!? I realize WCing would not solve the problem, but I am also worried about the lifespan of my card(s) as well as the heat it's pumping into the room.

I'll be honest. Watercooling is not for the faint of heart. First of all it can get real expensive fast. And second of all setting it up can be a pain in the butt. Even if you have it planned out first, which you definitely should, you'll find as parts arrive that things don't fit quite as you imagined. Tubes kink up, a fitting that you were counting on got omitted, a fan you ordered died, certain cables won't reach now, etc.

Your case is also an important factor. Certain cases were built with WC in mind, and others were not, they were made with aircooling in mind. I really don't know how suitable a 1200 is for WC purposes. But if you have a dremel, you can probably find a way to make things fit.

 

[LucidDream]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Unfortunately I thought about going with the FT02 while I was doing my build last November, but decided to go with this case because I liked my previous Antec cases... sadly more than I care for this one, particularly because of the drive bays not having the same rubber grommet support system and the 1200 (heh) screws you need to take out to clean fans/filters or get to your drives.

I did my best with cable management, hopefully it would minimize WC hassle if I stuck with this case. I'm not ready to drop $1000 on the monitor, arm, and card and do WC at the same time though. Incidentally, what do you think it would cost? If I remember correctly, I was looking at ~$700 for 2 quality 2x 3x120 rads (or even more), some kind of reservoir (I hadn't decided which), 10'-15' Tygon (more than enough), blocks, fittings, pump, etc. While we're on the topic, I took a picture of my case so you can see what I'd be up against.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1434/computerw.jpg

I think I could handle WC setup. Changing the water every 6 months, and remembering to, is another story. My big fears are safely emptying/refilling and a pump failing. I believe I'd be both patient and careful enough to not make mistakes with assembling and safely testing the loop initially. I've done very substantial research on WC but didn't believe my old hardware warranted the money on copper.

Admittedly, I get really hung up on the idea of an all-internal setup which might be impractical, but I personally feel like external solutions are hack-ish and cheap, which leaves me wondering if I've gone through enough of the decision-making process to run water anyhow, or if I even could make all of them.

If my frame rates drop noticeably or if I suffer frame lag it's going to irritate me... as much as I've love to pick up another card, I don't want two dead cards... does anyone believe 93°C on a regular and fairly constant basis is really OK? Am I staring water cooling in the face? My PSU is 1000w, I'd almost certainly need something bigger which is a whole other ball of wax.

 

[WorldExclusive]

If you bought the FT02, you wouldn't need a WC setup.
Water will always out perform air, but the FT02 is the best for cooling that GTX 480 on a budget.
Air is free and doesn't require maintenance.

 

[georgexi]

If you bought the FT02, you wouldn't need a WC setup.
Water will always out perform air, but the FT02 is the best for cooling that GTX 480 on a budget.
Air is free and doesn't require maintenance.

noticed in your sig you have a FT02 with a GTX480. what fan%/temps does your card run at under load w/ that setup?

 

[Forceman]

does anyone believe 93°C on a regular and fairly constant basis is really OK? .

The cards are made to run at that temperature, they've engineered them to handle the heat. Even previous generation cards, like the GTX 285s, ran into the 90s under load and there weren't widespread problems with them failing because of heat.

 

[phide]

does anyone believe 93°C on a regular and fairly constant basis is really OK?

Yes. Higher operating temperatures will shorten the card's lifespan, but the 480 is very likely spec'ed to run 4-5 years at temperatures nearing 100C. In other words, the card will likely become obsolete before the GPU fizzes out.

 

[Notleh]

OP, one other thing to consider is that the FFXIV beta has known graphics care issues. Since beta 3 it has been forcing Nvidia cards to run very hot. 470's in SLI run at almost 100% load.

So, just wait until next week when the open beta starts and they have all the back end stuff pulled off of the client. Hopefully they will have the graphics issues fixed too. You will know pretty quickly if you have an issue or not.

 

[LucidDream]

Yeah; at the time I wrote the post I did not have beta access. Hopefully they'll address some of the issues load seems high while idling in places with not too much detail, seems to be always have a 99% load even if I'm still, from what I remember at least the temp never went down 10°C - beta is in maintenance until early September.

If the card is indeed OK for the temps I am seeing, I can run a second card on air if 1080p is too much for my card in the more intense situations. If my temps were too high I was going to seriously consider WC; now I will probably get the high flow brackets and perhaps some additional and/or better case fans. I'll probably get the monitor and see how it goes.

 

[vjcsmoke]

I really enjoy having 50c load temps on my components and sub-40c idle temps. Watercooling is silly good for temps. But really, the watercooling was a huge investment. Did you account for cpu block, and 2x gpu blocks when calculating how much a WC setup would cost? That's easily another $300.

 

[LucidDream]

I only included one GPU block because I don't have the money for a second at the moment (well, not if I'm getting a monitor, which was the whole point hehe). I would like to WC eventually but emptying the loop would scare the hell out of me. I am also really hung on the idea of an all-internal setup, which I am not sure is reasonable with 2 480s.