Simple Question - Difficult Solution

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Interloper

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Hi all

I am somewhat new to OC'ing but am a scientist at heart and by degree.

When I built my last system I wanted the fastest processor available but this week I finally realized that the damn thing can reach 76'C with no overclocking and what I thought was more than conservative cooling!!!

All I am looking for here is a reliable solution to cool a NON-OVERCLOCKED P4 3.2GHz. I would Really like to be able to run at 3.6 - but currently under a high load I have instability issues which I believe are related to cooling.

I have a stock p4@ 3.2GHz that is capable of posting and booting to windows at 3.7 with instability. Runs pretty well at 3.6 but under heavy load it will crash. I think that myproblems are all cooling related. Ram is rated for 275 FSB speed so must be something else.

WHile running Video processing apps, I can reach temps of 76'C for prolonged periods of time..

Bought a Thermaltake Subzero TEC unit for about $140 when I built the system to help things, but under load it just can;t handle things, even when I'm not overclocked.

My question for the forum here is this:

I want to run a P4 3.2 at 100% load and *IDEALLY* would like to run it at 3.6 GHZ 100% load and have sufficient cooling so as not to top 59' C at 100% load or even better not to top 49'. For any who do heavy video proc stuff you all know this is heavily CPU intensive stuf and probably have similar concerns.

I did run my CPU at 76"C for about 8 hours overnight before I realilzed the problem then I removed the case cover and cranked Room A/C which lowered the temp to 63'C which is where it remained for about another 15 hours during a video conversion process. (100% load)

I am not happy with having a CPU less than 6 months old with such a high temp and am just looking for help on where to go from her for better cooling so I can do these video projects without topping 60'C

please help as to how I should proceed - I thought that the Subzero Unit would be all I needed but It works best when you are at Idle or playing a fairly simple game - Video editing it chokes on.


Thanks
 
My TEC setup takes me subzero at idle and keeps me below 30C at full load. I am assuming that you have a Prescott (read: very hot). Tell us more about your system, like components involved and how much you are willing to spend. Do you want to go a little exotic like watercooling and TEC? Extreme like phase-change? Or would you like to spend a lot less and just use aircooling...

-kris
 
Acctually your solution exists in a package and as a Techie you will appreciate the beauty of it. The hitch is the price...

Go to Astek ( www.vapochill.com ) and check their vapochill units out.
 
How are you cooling your TEC? From your description it sounds like you are air cooling it, and that's just not cutting it. Your TEC tripples the thermal load in your case. I'd presume you'd actually have better luck without it and just a decent heatsink, unless you switch to a watercooled TEC.
Edit: Looked up your unit, add a water cooler on top of the peltier element and you should be fine.
 
Watercooling it may improve your performance but this review at Overclocker's Cafe http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/cooling/Tt_SubZero4G_AMD/pg_2.html says it couldn't keep up with a hi performance air cooling solution. I don't trust anything capable of creating condensation (sub-ambient) but for a whole lot less money than the reported $150 this TEC costs you could get a plain old watercooling system that would keep it closer to ambient.
 
More about the overheating problem

You asked about my system:

Thermaltake VM3000A Xaser III Skull series case with 4 stock case fans
Liteon 40125S CD/RW drive
Sony DRU 500A DVD/RW drive
Dual WD JB2500 250GB drives (7200 RPM) Raid 0
Maxtor 46GB 7200 RPM HD
Maxtor 30GB 7200 RPM HD
Radeon AIW 9800 PRO - OC to 390 core / 351 vram - Stock HSF / Addon Sinks
Northwood 3.2GHZ P4 (**NOT Prescott **) - currently at 3.2
Corsair TWINX1024-4400 1GB DDR550 XMS4400 w/Heat Spreader
Antec TruePower 550W PSU
Thermaltake Subzero TEC CPU cooler
ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe MOBO
Audigy ZS2 Sound

Thats the main stuff that contributed heat to the case. Got the side cover pulled off and the room AC cranked and it hits 63'C at 100%load - 76'C with sidecover on and A/C at nominal temp setting.

Running CPU at stock. Running the Memory at 2.5-3-3-6, but the rated speed of 550DDR is at 3-4-4-8 - All successful overclocks I scaled back to the 3-4-4-8 and got 1:1 sync

Stable overclocked at 3.6 GHZ (FSB 225) as long as I don't go to 100% load!!!!
Unstable Overclocked at 3.8GHZ (FSB 231) windows boots but crashes sporadically - like when I try 3dMark. Will post at higher OC but windows fails to boot beyond 231 FSB.
What gives with this by the way!!! How to pump that FSB up higher??? If it'll post why won't windows run??

Now on to addressing your replies. I mentioned the specs on my machine.

What I'd like to achieve?? I don't care which method I end up using but I'd like to not go over 55'C at 100% load, I'd like to keep my current case, and I'd like to not spend a lot of money in doing so. Low noise is also attractive.

If I could swap out the fan cooling the HS on the Tec unit and live with the noise, that's one option as I see, but this presumes it would actually significantly improve the core temp at 100% load by at least 8 degrees (and that's if I leave the case covers off and crank the room AC. It'd have to be better for winter months). A High flow fan might do it - I think a re-wire of the case to improve airflow might be in order as would higher flow case fans as simply removing the side cover and cranking up the room AC dropped the core temp from 76 to 63'C......


I could remove the whole damn TEC unit (and hopefully still get a refund if possible) I could slap on the stock heat sink and see how that works. cost = zero.

I could use traditional HSF combo such as the Sp94 and a fan as a second option (can't say I like this approach much though). Could always buy a good fan first and try using it on the TEC unit Heatsink in option 1- if it didn't work could be recycled for use in this option.

i could go for a fancy Water chilled system and pay a shit load and I don't really have much spare room in my case for a pump. I sort of like this idea but am intimidated by the extreme change in going to water cooling and I am worried it would break the budget. Would it be better to scrap the 73Watt Subzero TEC unit altogether and go with a waterchilled system or just use the waterchill on the Subzero TEC itself??? I suspect I would have better overall performance going with a different TEC unit. I think I read that you need to really have high pressure between the TEC and the Waterchiller for good performance and I don't know how easy that would be to achieve with a TEC unit like mine. If I do go with a different solution, I will try returning my Subzero TEC unit for full refund or using it on an older system (I have a P4 1.5 w/ Asus P4B MOBO system - don't really know how overclockable that would be).... Does anyone have suggestions about converting my Aircooled TEC unti to a Watercooled TEC unit and if I should bother??

I can't afford the $800 or so for a Vapochill... at least not for a year or two. The really cool separately enclosed unit looks cool and I could easily set it under my current case and punch a hole through the bottom to cool the CPU. Too expensive though - even if I could get the $150 refund for the Subzero TEC unit. I like the idea but price puts it out of range...at least for the moment.

Thanks for the input. And by the way - any suggestions on getting windows to boot at higher FSB clocks when the Post seems to be fine??
 
have you looked at plain watercooling? that'd be my first suggestion. i think that the TEC on the thermaltake Subzero thing may actually be rated at about the heat your chip is putting off. and that isn't a good thing, because you aren't going to be getting 100% efficiency out of a TEC with air cooling on it. it would probably end up working better than the TEC unit you currently have. and adding WC to the tec unit (if it is rated high enough) would probably help even more. however, the cost of a good TEC system can easily approach that of a phase change setup (especially a used one or one on sale) because you need a seperate power supply and all that. anywho.

as for your second question, i'd try increasing ram voltage (just because it can help) and also cpu voltage (but i wouldn't do that until you can lower your load temps)

good luck!
 
Hmm, what is the heat output of a 3.2 Northwood, around 80 Watt? I think your 73 Watt peltier is simply overstressed by that CPU. You should get better results just with the stock heatsink and AS5.
Just for comparison, my 3.06 with similar rated heat dissipation run at 55 C idle 63 C load with stock heatsink, and went down to 33/39 with a dangerden TDX watercooling block.
 
I would definitely go with plain watercooling. Not chilled, not combined with a TEC.
Get one of those nice beefy heatercores that 2Fresh sells, put a couple of fairly quiet fans on it. A whole setup will cost you less than $175 easily. Do yourself a favor and buy the parts separately.

Nothing but the waterblock has to go inside your case you know..
Put a big'ol resivour, the heatercore, and a pond pump (I reccommend the danner pumps -- "pondmaster" at petsmart) on the floor, and run tubing up to your case into/out of the waterblock, and back down.

You'll know if you need more air going through the heatercore if the water in the resivour starts to warm up.
 
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